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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
35
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Posted - 2017.03.23 01:14:12 -
[1] - Quote
Let's make the game even duller than it already is by now making people mine instead of PVP enjoying the beautiful parts of the game, instead treat eve like your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th job...
Well done Fozzie, you've delivered another smack into the community. The focus was how to make Moon Mining a more active activity. The best suggestion and the one most wanted was for moon minerals to be added to something that can be mined in asteroid belts and anoms. Not this BS that also affects a fairly active profession in creating t2 material already. t2 prices are going to sore because of it and with the introduction of Alpha's i see a mass amount of people saying to the hell with it.
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ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
35
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Posted - 2017.03.23 01:33:07 -
[2] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:ll Kuray ll wrote:Let's make the game even duller than it already is by now making people mine instead of PVP enjoying the beautiful parts of the game, instead treat eve like your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th job...
Well done Fozzie, you've delivered another smack into the community. The focus was how to make Moon Mining a more active activity. The best suggestion and the one most wanted was for moon minerals to be added to something that can be mined in asteroid belts and anoms. Not this BS that also affects a fairly active profession in creating t2 material already. t2 prices are going to sore because of it and with the introduction of Alpha's i see a mass amount of people saying to the hell with it.
I was thinking about that. They cant possibly think that the T2 mats will be even remotely reasonable..
I can't actually believe this has been proposed. You can't change gamer mentality and if adding additional brain numbing resource collecting is the best Fozzie has then I have no confidence in the devs of this company. |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
35
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Posted - 2017.03.23 01:47:21 -
[3] - Quote
This suggestion doesn't even come close to gaming style and personas. Do some research and you'll see people who play MMORGP's want to do things solo and in small groups... When will Fozzie learn this? |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
35
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Posted - 2017.03.26 00:54:23 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey again everyone. Got another round of Q&A ready to go for you today:
Q: Will mining the new moon ores contribute to the industry index and system activity defense multiplier in sov nullsec? A: Yup
Q: What will happen to the moon chunk progress when the structure is reinforced? A: This is definitely subject to change as needed, but the current plan is that this service module will work much like other service modules in reinforcement situations. That would mean the first reinforce wouldn't impact the progress of the extraction but that a 2nd reinforce would offline the service module and either pause the chunk or cause it to slowly descend back towards the surface of the moon. Uninstalling the service module or destroying the refinery would cause the moon chunk to disintegrate without forming a minable belt.
Q: Is there a plan to deal with multiple refineries being spammed on a moon and a race to online the service module when the previous structure dies? A: We have a plan for dealing with this that involves a first choice and a fallback choice depending on technical limitations. Once we have a better estimate of the code limitations we'll open this up to feedback.
Q: When the new reprocessing bonuses of refineries are introduced, will the refineries give better reprocessing yields than anything available today or will old refining rates get nerfed? A: We haven't decided on exact number yet, but there's a good chance that it will be a little bit of both.
Didn't see you answer the question about, have you replaced a relatively dull part of the game with an even duller part of the game? Yup
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ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
35
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Posted - 2017.03.26 03:06:33 -
[5] - Quote
Querns wrote:ll Kuray ll wrote:Didn't see you answer the question about, have you replaced a relatively dull part of the game with an even duller part of the game? Yup
I mean, at least now you'll be able to participate in the T2 game, rather than having your masters do it all off of your backs.
Clever boy you can read my current employment.
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ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
35
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Posted - 2017.03.26 22:14:15 -
[6] - Quote
Pestilen Ratte wrote:It is worth thinking about the foreseeable economic consequences of this proposal.
What do we know?
We know that the same tech II input materials are going to require significantly more player effort. So the price will rise for these inputs, as players make choices about how to spend their available time.
NOT EVERYONE HAS MORE TIME TO GIVE TO CCP. Important point, hence the caps. I think this point escapes many CCP directors, but it is a fundamental fact of the real world outside CCP.
So, given the same amount of player time spent mining, moon goo will increase in price. Thewrefore all tech II things will increase in price.
What else do we know?
We know that tech II ships and modules compete with navy and faction counterparts. we also know that the tech II line wont be getting any buffs to reflect their increased price with increased value. Therefore the choice for the consumer will be bigly moved towards the relative value of navy and faction ships.
Navy and faction ships are supplied in the same way, so their input costs stay the same. Their capabilities are not nerfed. Their value for money skyrockets, relative to the tech II ships.
And then what happens?
It is an interesting fact of the former USSR, that great planned economy, that it was never illegal to purchase imported cigars from Cuba or fine coffee from bolivia. You couldnt buy these luxuries in the shops of moscow during the soviet era, but they were never banned.
You couldn't buy them in Moscow, a vast city, because nobody was willing to pay party members the two months salary of bribes that it cost to get a small packet of coffee and ten cigars.
The cost was so great, and the value so relatively small, that the market simply collapsed. There became no market at all, for simple luxuries, in the glorious planned economy.
If CCP do not begin to understand that their customers have choice in the market, and that they cannot impose their plans upon the player base, they run a very real risk of watching as all the industrialists simple stop logging on, and go to invest their time in a more vibrant choice of entertainment.
This change effectively destroys the value, the value for money, of a popular line of ships and modules. It offers nothing to replace what has been made less attractive.
CCP staff look at the numbers and talk about price, as if price and value are the same thing.
The price of coffee and cigars was huge in Moscow in 1988. The market value was about zero.
You will not grow the eve economy by forcing people with choice to adhere to your simplistic little plans. People will simply leave.
Pretty much says it.
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ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
35
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Posted - 2017.03.26 22:50:33 -
[7] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:I think this will be interesting
Moving the old Tech II mining into active game play vs passive income should encourage more targets out on the field for PVP players.
I would like to see some work on the interaction of the mining process, allowing some interaction to increase yield vs just afk mining.
And who exactly is going to have time to hunt when everyone will be mining? |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
37
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Posted - 2017.03.27 12:19:55 -
[8] - Quote
Querns wrote:ll Kuray ll wrote:Gevlin wrote:I think this will be interesting
Moving the old Tech II mining into active game play vs passive income should encourage more targets out on the field for PVP players.
I would like to see some work on the interaction of the mining process, allowing some interaction to increase yield vs just afk mining.
And who exactly is going to have time to hunt when everyone will be mining? Ah, the wonderful sounds of yet another sap who thinks their alliance will FORCE them to mine. I love it. So many people have this intransigent belief moongoo = SRP and it's such a rigid association that they literally cannot conceive of another way to provide SRP.
Don't be so ignorant.
This isn't anything to do with SRP you stupid goon. |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
37
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Posted - 2017.03.27 12:21:23 -
[9] - Quote
Querns wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Citika wrote:I see a few issues with this plan:
More miners will be needed in Null just to mine these Moon belts. These moon belts are covered by refinery weapons, which makes them somewhat safer than normal belts, making them more attractive for fleet operations. At the same time though, Null will need more effort turned towards mining moon goo instead of fighting, roaming, or other actions which are the reason people play. Most people have lives outside the game, and popping on to Eve for two hours just to scoop up a belt does not sound like a lot of fun.
Balance issues aside for now, what this effectively means is that a much higher emphasis is placed on mining asteroid fields than before. In order to maximize profits, the field needs to be cleared ASAP in order to start hauling up another chunk, but between those mining efforts are either a long period of nothing for small organizations while the chunk rises, or constant mining for larger empires with multiple refineries pulling up multiple chunks.
The only people this really benefits are the massive nullsec empires who can organize massive fleets and multiboxers operating near their refinery. It does not always benefit smaller organizations, who might have their efforts stolen by organized mining incursions which can tank the refinery defenses (which I'm assuming are going to be similar to the Raitaru and Azbel). It does not benefit Wormholers, who now have to leave their holes for reactions. And it certainly does not help the economy (read Ratte's post above, he explained it better than I ever could).
Bolded and underlined the important part. The part that explains why Querns is so keen on these changes. Delve, the Drones Regions, other deep 0.0 will be fine. NPC Null, Low Sec, and accessible parts of 0.0 will suffer from these changes. You do know that you have access to Delve's Elysian hunting grounds, yes? I'm keen on these changes because they remove a huge source of top-down income. I am a staunch believer that nullsec should be about farms and fields, generating bottom-up income.
Pure ignorance again from your stupid goon... it remove top down income... NOPE still gonna generate top-level income from it; how you can't see this is beyond me. |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
37
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Posted - 2017.03.28 10:19:18 -
[10] - Quote
I've seen some nice spins on trying to justify this idea the biggest being the removal of top-level income for alliances. My response to that is you're doing a good job at trying to frame it in your favor but it isn't with me and I can see right through it.
1. No matter what part of level you play Eve at you can always create top level afk income. I've seen alliances adopt a fee base income, I've seen alliance adopt ratting and mining ops where there is a certain quota of isk to generate and give to the alliance. I've seen alliance leaders rent out systems to corps I've seen alliance leaders rent out particular constellations I've seen alliances adopt a "pay us to keep you safe" model I've seen alliances own the good moons I've not seen many alliances cap moons that don't have materials to mine and done reactions
So really your argument about removing top level afk alliance income is fraud as there are other ways in which alliances generate their income.
Once you remove the sugar of the cool piece of rock that has been cut away from the moon, this is nothing but a mining operation that once again could be turned into AFK top level alliance income. Only this time more lemmings are required to be involved in meeting mind numbing mining quota's because apparently this will generate "more content"....
Get bent.
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ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
37
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Posted - 2017.04.23 21:50:51 -
[11] - Quote
AFK Hauler wrote:Doc J wrote:Querns wrote:Doc J wrote:Querns wrote:This isn't what "top-down income" means. First time I've seen the thread but caught my eye on this, what does top-down income mean? "Top-down" income refers to an alliance funding source that is collected solely by actors at the top of an organization, then is dispersed downwards onto line members. (Assuming it doesn't get embezzled.) Moongoo is the archetype of top-down income, as it's handled by the alliance's logistics dudes and line members aren't involved at all. This is in contrast to "bottom-up" income, where line members perform the money-making activity, and the alliance takes a small slice, usually through taxes. Ratting is the archetype of bottom-up income. In this instance, CCP is shifting moongoo from top-down to bottom-up income. I guess FanFest has changed your opinion on this change? Another economic factor that's being ignored is the total value displacement by these changes. Right now the moon goo economy is only so big for a single income flow, that is - it's limited to the current number of people participating in moon mining. That includes the investors, producers, reactors, sellers and consumers. That pie has a specific economic size based on the value of each material in the production to consumption chain. Each player gets a specific slice of the pie, which is monetized by the end user. The size of the pie stays the same under the current proposed changes with the added slice going to a new level of interaction, which is the production. Previously that was a slice that was consumed by a corporation or alliance. However, now that slice will be consumed by everyone who mines the minerals. The level of labor not accounted for in these changes will cause upward pressure on the end consumer to support the new labor activity. The only relief to the upward pressure is to increase supply to spread the economic burden of production. Someone is going to get paid for their labor one way or another. Keeping the supply at the current level will drive the costs upwards to support the new layer of labor required to produce T2 materials. If there is no economic relief on the end user, the result will be a natural shift towards capital and faction ships. Bottom up economics got a new step in the ladder that is not receiving attention or balance.
I think the players are aware but Fozzie has curtains over his eyes.
I too wonder if Querns has changed his mind after fanfest? |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
37
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Posted - 2017.05.02 23:34:56 -
[12] - Quote
Erie TehGM wrote:I am excited for this - I always wanted to be as self-sustainable as possible in games. And T2 production was pain regarding that, cause I had to buy (not actually gather by myself) resources for it. So I really welcome this change.
However, I think Moon mining shouldn't be TOO easy to get into. For sure, it will need additional skill. And hopefully different types of lasers, however that's less needed. I am afraid that unless moon rocks will give really small yield per cycle, T2 market will crash. And I personally am against this. Not cause I produce T2 stuff (cause I actually don't, except missiles for my tengu). This has to be really carefully considered so T2 manufacturing doesn't become much easier than it currently is.
More open to more people - hell yeah! Easier and flood of T2 stuff - hell no!
However note: I know nothing about economy, so I may be wrong. However, this is a real concern for me.
What on earth are you smoking? This isn't going to make t2 production self sustaining at all. What curtains do you have over your eyes? |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
37
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Posted - 2017.05.04 11:59:23 -
[13] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:ll Kuray ll wrote:Erie TehGM wrote:I am excited for this - I always wanted to be as self-sustainable as possible in games. And T2 production was pain regarding that, cause I had to buy (not actually gather by myself) resources for it. So I really welcome this change. What on earth are you smoking? This isn't going to make t2 production self sustaining at all. What curtains do you have over your eyes? Sometime when you don't understand it's you fault and not fault of others......
Some people will always have something to say and nothing to contribute. |
ll Kuray ll
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
37
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Posted - 2017.05.06 01:56:41 -
[14] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:ll Kuray ll wrote:March rabbit wrote:ll Kuray ll wrote:Erie TehGM wrote:I am excited for this - I always wanted to be as self-sustainable as possible in games. And T2 production was pain regarding that, cause I had to buy (not actually gather by myself) resources for it. So I really welcome this change. What on earth are you smoking? This isn't going to make t2 production self sustaining at all. What curtains do you have over your eyes? Sometime when you don't understand it's you fault and not fault of others...... Some people will always have something to say and nothing to contribute. Yeah, i could say it this way but now you said it yourself.
You trying to degrade me usually means you want to feel empowerment over me. I am honored you tried to insult me. |
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