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Brian Paone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.03.27 10:01:08 - [1] - Quote The Council of Stellar Management is quite the interesting concept. (At least to me - I had a thing for politics back in the day.) But after looking it over, I decided not to participate for a few reasons: * Lack of serious candidates: In my opinion, too few people took the idea seriously. There were more joke candidacies than most American presidential elections. If the candidates (in general and overall, not as a totality) can't take themselves or the process seriously, it's very difficult for me to do so. * Weighted concept: As a concept, the CSM is weighted far too heavily in favor of large groups. There doesn't appear to be any kind of viable mechanism for small groups to have their voices given equal weight. I realize no form of government is perfect, but I feel more work can be done to give smaller, less visible groups a more equal place at the table. I also feel NPC corporations are badly underrepresented, to the point of even possible derision. It's a great concept, but ultimately seems to be rubber-stamping. I'd like to see the process and candidates (again, overall, not in totality) mature a bit more before participating. Keep up the progress! o7
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 1206	Posted - 2017.03.27 10:21:02 - [2] - Quote Brian Paone wrote: I realize no form of government is perfect The CSM isn't a government, it's a focussed customer group. Used by CCP (and by many other consumer product oriented companies) to get feedback and test ideas. The only unusual thing with the CSM is that CCP lets us customers select the group instead of selecting it them self. CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Yebo Lakatosh KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 132	Posted - 2017.03.27 10:23:22 - [3] - Quote Brian Paone wrote: I also feel NPC corporations are badly underrepresented, You almost tricked me into thinking you were serious. It would have worked if you don't give yourself away with the quoted line. Still, top quality troll! They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.
Brian Paone Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.03.27 11:23:07 - [4] - Quote I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-) All the best.
Yebo Lakatosh KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 132	Posted - 2017.03.27 11:28:11 - [5] - Quote Damn it was -serious-? Seriously? Than you did yourself a favor of removing it. But it still would have been better to just plea trolling. They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.
ApexDynamo Hazardous Wormhole Rebels 32	Posted - 2017.03.27 11:29:58 - [6] - Quote Ive never once voted for csm's or in reality, the speeches are just false advertisement, never once seen a csm actually fullfill what he/she ever said they would do
Kieron VonDeux 223	Posted - 2017.03.27 11:33:40 - [7] - Quote Brian Paone wrote: (Removed - no point to a serious post, is there? ISD, please remove at your leisure; thank you.) No, the Internets is unfortunately full of trolls. And I think it eventually turns decent people into them as well.
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 1397	Posted - 2017.03.27 11:45:14 - [8] - Quote I voted for Mangala. Once when he ran. Only person that I have ever voted for or will likely. Its not that my vote doesnt count its that I dont believe in people to actually be good in any moral sense. Get away with what you can is about it as long as you can. Im sure some would say the same about me though too. Have you heard anything I've said? You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? That's right. Had to end sometime.
Yebo Lakatosh KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 132	Posted - 2017.03.27 12:54:51 - [9] - Quote Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: I dont believe in people to actually be good in any moral sense. As far as I have seen, people don't vote for someone because they are convinced that their candidate is the best possible option of ever. That's sheep. People vote for they are convinced that the -other- candidates are abysmal, and they have to do what they can to keep them away from power. Guess it's the same in EvE too. They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.
Cristl 583	Posted - 2017.03.27 13:25:28 - [10] - Quote Brian Paone wrote: The Council of Stellar Management is quite the interesting concept. (At least to me - I had a thing for politics back in the day.) But after looking it over, I decided not to participate for a few reasons: * Lack of serious candidates: In my opinion, too few people took the idea seriously. There were more joke candidacies than most American presidential elections. If the candidates (in general and overall, not as a totality) can't take themselves or the process seriously, it's very difficult for me to do so. * Weighted concept: As a concept, the CSM is weighted far too heavily in favor of large groups. There doesn't appear to be any kind of viable mechanism for small groups to have their voices given equal weight. I realize no form of government is perfect, but I feel more work can be done to give smaller, less visible groups a more equal place at the table. I also feel NPC corporations are badly underrepresented, to the point of even possible derision. It's a great concept, but ultimately seems to be rubber-stamping. I'd like to see the process and candidates (again, overall, not in totality) mature a bit more before participating. Keep up the progress! o7 Why not ignore the silly candidates and vote for the serious ones then? Your rationale is completely arse-backwards: your inaction may contribute to genuine candidates being trumped (ahem, no capital T, lawyers). Also, what do you mean by weighted too heavily in favour of large groups? Isn't that how democracy works? I mean, a hypothetical scientology party wouldn't get many votes because most people view them as (the lawyers are here again, complete this sentence as you see fit). Finally, NPC corps are underrepresented? What the hell are you on about?!
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3256	Posted - 2017.03.27 13:29:58 - [11] - Quote Yebo Lakatosh wrote: Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: I dont believe in people to actually be good in any moral sense. As far as I have seen, people don't vote for someone because they are convinced that their candidate is the best possible option of ever. That's sheep. People vote for they are convinced that the -other- candidates are abysmal, and they have to do what they can to keep them away from power. Guess it's the same in EvE too. The fact that voting IRL goes that way quite often is kinda terrible IMO. We settle for the lesser turd instead of finding the shooting star.
Jenn aSide Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore 15418	Posted - 2017.03.27 13:31:13 - [12] - Quote Cristl wrote: Brian Paone wrote: The Council of Stellar Management is quite the interesting concept. (At least to me - I had a thing for politics back in the day.) But after looking it over, I decided not to participate for a few reasons: * Lack of serious candidates: In my opinion, too few people took the idea seriously. There were more joke candidacies than most American presidential elections. If the candidates (in general and overall, not as a totality) can't take themselves or the process seriously, it's very difficult for me to do so. * Weighted concept: As a concept, the CSM is weighted far too heavily in favor of large groups. There doesn't appear to be any kind of viable mechanism for small groups to have their voices given equal weight. I realize no form of government is perfect, but I feel more work can be done to give smaller, less visible groups a more equal place at the table. I also feel NPC corporations are badly underrepresented, to the point of even possible derision. It's a great concept, but ultimately seems to be rubber-stamping. I'd like to see the process and candidates (again, overall, not in totality) mature a bit more before participating. Keep up the progress! o7 Why not ignore the silly candidates and vote for the serious ones then? Your rationale is completely arse-backwards: your inaction may contribute to genuine candidates being trumped (ahem, no capital T, lawyers). Also, what do you mean by weighted too heavily in favour of large groups? Isn't that how democracy works? I mean, a hypothetical scientology party wouldn't get many votes because most people view them as (the lawyers are here again, complete this sentence as you see fit). Finally, NPC corps are underrepresented? What the hell are you on about?! I read your reply, and I noticed that your tone is the exact same as mine. Where you going "WT ever loving F" the entire time you were typing...like I did lol I mean, the part where the poster said something about small groups being given equal weight to small group. How does being in a 'small group' make you special? And how in the hell does being in an NPC corps stop you from voting. Hell CCP makes POP UPS in game telling EVERYONE CSM voting is going on. Is it 'big groups' fault that people in small groups and NPC corps don't give enough of a damn to spend 15 seconds voting for a csm candidate. Why is their laziness somehow a problem CCP needs to fix?
Chopper Rollins Far Beyond Triggered 1802	Posted - 2017.03.27 15:06:34 - [13] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: The fact that voting IRL goes that way quite often is kinda terrible IMO. We settle for the lesser turd instead of finding the shooting star. IRL European history has made people a bit leery of honest demagogues or real leaders, since they drown the crops with young men's blood, so managerial types are favoured for now. I've met and spoken on comms with people involved with the CSM, it's actually not that bad a thing and cynicism about it is more of a posture than an informed stance. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Zanar Skwigelf Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra 99	Posted - 2017.03.27 15:14:07 - [14] - Quote OP makes a thread about how people like him are underrepresented OP pulls his opinion the minute someone disagrees with it
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 1397	Posted - 2017.03.27 15:17:51 - [15] - Quote Yebo Lakatosh wrote: Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: I dont believe in people to actually be good in any moral sense. As far as I have seen, people don't vote for someone because they are convinced that their candidate is the best possible option of ever. That's sheep. People vote for they are convinced that the -other- candidates are abysmal, and they have to do what they can to keep them away from power. Guess it's the same in EvE too. Yeah the lesser of two evils isnt a good way to run things. As for sheeple well... statistical psychology and behaviour pysch kinda spells it out for me which makes me cry myself to sleep at night in my beer. Its just a shame really. Have you heard anything I've said? You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? That's right. Had to end sometime.
Jacques d'Orleans 3033	Posted - 2017.03.27 16:18:00 - [16] - Quote Brian Paone wrote: I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-) All the best. What does it feel like to be so weak that mere words in a forum thread offend you? Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
Sasha Nemtsov New Order Logistics CODE. 605	Posted - 2017.03.27 16:57:38 - [17] - Quote Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Brian Paone wrote: I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-) All the best. What does it feel like to be so weak that mere words in a forum thread offend you? Brian is a very special sort of snowflake Jacques. He has mastered completely the nose-in-the-air turn-on-the-heel and flounce-out-the-door scene. I'd happily discuss his ideas with him, if he and they warranted the attention he so ardently believes they merit. I've been having a to-and-fro with him in a thread elsewhere, but it's the same darned thing as here. Given a platform, he's comfortable (if pompous) and clearly in his element. As soon as the mic is passed to a critic, he pops. Good luck trying catch snowflakes, let alone pin them down.. minerbumping New Order Audio Archive NEW! MinerBumping Video Vault
Keno Skir 1434	Posted - 2017.03.27 16:57:38 - [18] - Quote Brian Paone wrote: I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-) All the best. Not with you no. Either you're posting with an alt making you irrelevant, or you really are 4 months in game which makes your opinion on voting in the CSM irrelevant. It's ok to be uninformed as long as you aren't flamey, and it's ok sometimes to be flamey as long as you're well informed. Your posting history shows you to be very flamey and very uninformed, which is a sorry combination. It was especially funny to read your thoughts on how being a pirate in a video game means you're "opposing your own species" and the worst kind of human being in real life. Pathetic. That's why nobody listens to you <Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï> <Gùï> Contact me regarding my trusted Alliance Creation Service <Gùï>
Vortexo VonBrenner Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning 2751	Posted - 2017.03.27 17:31:25 - [19] - Quote Brian Paone wrote: (Removed - no point to a serious post, is there?...) Brian Paone wrote: I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-) What, you mean this post you made? Oh. Brian Paone wrote: The Council of Stellar Management is quite the interesting concept. (At least to me - I had a thing for politics back in the day.) But after looking it over, I decided not to participate for a few reasons: * Lack of serious candidates: In my opinion, too few people took the idea seriously. There were more joke candidacies than most American presidential elections. If the candidates (in general and overall, not as a totality) can't take themselves or the process seriously, it's very difficult for me to do so. * Weighted concept: As a concept, the CSM is weighted far too heavily in favor of large groups. There doesn't appear to be any kind of viable mechanism for small groups to have their voices given equal weight. I realize no form of government is perfect, but I feel more work can be done to give smaller, less visible groups a more equal place at the table. I also feel NPC corporations are badly underrepresented, to the point of even possible derision. It's a great concept, but ultimately seems to be rubber-stamping. I'd like to see the process and candidates (again, overall, not in totality) mature a bit more before participating. Keep up the progress! o7 Superlative thoughts, sir. With just two minor flaws - One, THE CSM IS NOT A GOVERNMENT and two, THE CSM IS NOT A GOVERNMENT. Now I realise that technically speaking that's only one flaw but I thought that it was such a big one that it was worth mentioning twice. Have a special day. EvE security zones in pictures EvE quick reference pdf EvE links
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 488	Posted - 2017.03.27 18:09:01 - [20] - Quote To anyone that doesn't vote, if you don't speak how can you complain about the outcome? A case for more AoE in EvE
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 60524	Posted - 2017.03.27 22:53:18 - [21] - Quote Brian Paone wrote: (Removed - no point to a serious post, is there?...) Need to give some time for players to view it. Never remove the content of a thread you posted. Brian Paone wrote: I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-) You need to ignore the troll replies and only respond to those who genuinely have something to contribute to the discussion. Doesn't matter if it's positive or negative as long as it's polite and professional. Brian Paone wrote: The Council of Stellar Management is quite the interesting concept. (At least to me - I had a thing for politics back in the day.) But after looking it over, I decided not to participate for a few reasons: * Lack of serious candidates: In my opinion, too few people took the idea seriously. There were more joke candidacies than most American presidential elections. If the candidates (in general and overall, not as a totality) can't take themselves or the process seriously, it's very difficult for me to do so. * Weighted concept: As a concept, the CSM is weighted far too heavily in favor of large groups. There doesn't appear to be any kind of viable mechanism for small groups to have their voices given equal weight. I realize no form of government is perfect, but I feel more work can be done to give smaller, less visible groups a more equal place at the table. I also feel NPC corporations are badly underrepresented, to the point of even possible derision. It's a great concept, but ultimately seems to be rubber-stamping. I'd like to see the process and candidates (again, overall, not in totality) mature a bit more before participating. Keep up the progress! o7 Overall I don't see anything wrong with your original post other than you deciding not to vote. I've been playing this game for over 8 years now and I've only voted 4 times. I agree the system for getting candidates is flawed and the actual voting process definitely favors large Alliances. Since there is a large amount of placeholder candidates the only option available is to question each one and then vote for those who have viewpoints similar to your own. Personally I think one of the prerequisites for CSM candidates should be having an active subscription for at least 2+ years. Also the character being used should be active in-game so that their running platform can be easily verified. It would definitely make a big difference if everyone who was active in-game actually voted. There's a lot of active players in-game who don't know about CSM Elections. The main issue is how to inform them about it. I believe that issue can be easily resolved by CCP sending an Eve Mail message to all characters informing them about the upcoming election. CCP can also send another Eve Mail message reminding players that the polls will only be open during a set period of time. Anyway, in the future don't remove the original thread content if you want to have a serious discussion about a topic. Main thing is to allow time for other players to post genuine replies. Also if you decide the thread has generated enough attention, just click the little flag report icon in the header next to the time stamp of your original post and ask ISD to close the thread. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Bjorn Tyrson EVE University Ivy League 391	Posted - 2017.03.27 23:18:15 - [22] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I believe that issue can be easily resolved by CCP sending an Eve Mail message to all characters informing them about the upcoming election. CCP can also send another Eve Mail message reminding players that the polls will only be open during a set period of time. CCP had a big announcement front and center on the launcher. there where also notifications sent out regularly IG, the ones I specifically remember, was a notification when the candidates where all announced. another one when voting started, a third when there was only a week left, a fourth just before the final weekend of voting and then a fifth one on the final day. if a big banner on the launcher, and 5 or more IG notifications was not enough for players to pay attention too then I don't think anything they do would help.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 60524	Posted - 2017.03.28 00:11:53 - [23] - Quote Bjorn Tyrson wrote: DeMichael Crimson wrote: I believe that issue can be easily resolved by CCP sending an Eve Mail message to all characters informing them about the upcoming election. CCP can also send another Eve Mail message reminding players that the polls will only be open during a set period of time. CCP had a big announcement front and center on the launcher. there where also notifications sent out regularly IG, the ones I specifically remember, was a notification when the candidates where all announced. another one when voting started, a third when there was only a week left, a fourth just before the final weekend of voting and then a fifth one on the final day. if a big banner on the launcher, and 5 or more IG notifications was not enough for players to pay attention too then I don't think anything they do would help. You must have a different game launcher than what I have because I didn't see any large banner advertising CSM Election. There's a small section on the lower right side which mostly promotes PLEX sales, deals for upgrading to Omega status and Ship skins. The Eve News section on the lower left side has way too many listings in small print to actually garner players attention. I bet most players just look for the blue launcher download status for 'Ready' and then click the appropriate account to launch. Having a full page advert for CSM Elections load up before the character selection screen would definitely get players attention. The notifications you're referring to in-game are small and fleeting as well as being intermixed with skill training completion notifications, contacts, etc. An Eve Mail message containing information is a lot more noticeable and lasts much longer than some quick little notification flyby that only lasts onscreen for a few seconds. I think every single type of media option that's currently available in-game should be used to help inform all players. Definitely wouldn't hurt. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6278	Posted - 2017.03.28 07:39:00 - [24] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Yebo Lakatosh wrote: Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: I dont believe in people to actually be good in any moral sense. As far as I have seen, people don't vote for someone because they are convinced that their candidate is the best possible option of ever. That's sheep. People vote for they are convinced that the -other- candidates are abysmal, and they have to do what they can to keep them away from power. Guess it's the same in EvE too. The fact that voting IRL goes that way quite often is kinda terrible IMO. We settle for the lesser turd instead of finding the shooting star. Working as intended. Voting sucks. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6278	Posted - 2017.03.28 07:46:11 - [25] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: To anyone that doesn't vote, if you don't speak how can you complain about the outcome? Actually I put it like this: I didn't vote for the bastards, so I'm not part of the problem. For those who did...they created the problem. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1601	Posted - 2017.03.28 07:49:51 - [26] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: To anyone that doesn't vote, if you don't speak how can you complain about the outcome? Carebears. They'll complain about everything. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Vigirr 324	Posted - 2017.03.28 07:52:22 - [27] - Quote 1) CSM is a publicity stunt without merit 2) I don't trust CCP to do it rightGäó anyway, the Seagull era isn't delivering what it implied 3) it's going to be abused anyway, knowledge is power TMDV: Too meaningless, didn't vote.
roberts dragon Beak Enterprises TRUE VINE 72	Posted - 2017.03.28 07:59:05 - [28] - Quote gets the popcorn out , really its looks like more nudge nudge wink wink say no more .how to placate the mob feed them science and a few csms .
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 2112	Posted - 2017.03.28 09:46:23 - [29] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: To anyone that doesn't vote, if you don't speak how can you complain about the outcome? I would vote if there was option "Disband CSM". The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jacques d'Orleans 3036	Posted - 2017.03.28 13:05:43 - [30] - Quote Sasha Nemtsov wrote: Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Brian Paone wrote: I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-) All the best. What does it feel like to be so weak that mere words in a forum thread offend you? Brian is a very special sort of snowflake Jacques. He has mastered completely the nose-in-the-air turn-on-the-heel and flounce-out-the-door scene. I'd happily discuss his ideas with him, if he and they warranted the attention he so ardently believes they merit. I've been having a to-and-fro with him in a thread elsewhere, but it's the same darned thing as here. Given a platform, he's comfortable (if pompous) and clearly in his element. As soon as the mic is passed to a critic, he pops. Good luck trying catch snowflakes, let alone pin them down.. I would love to hear a podcast with you and someone like Brian who would stand to his oppinon and beliefes without resorting to the usual Generation Carebear rhetoric. But sadly most, if not all, of them are not even able to do that, they're a real pussy generation it seems. Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.

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