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CNR or Rattlesnake, Who truely is king?

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Red Rumurder 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.04 18:14:00 - [1] We all know the Raven is king of missions. I would like to know which one of these 2, Rattlesnake and CNR is better? I have never flown either of them but am within a few weeks of being able to own both (crosses fingers) and trying to figure out setups for them to maximize mission pawnage.
HeavenlyCreature Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.04 18:25:00 - [2] I'd recommend the CNR for missions. +1 launcher slot means you can do more dmg .. the Rattlesnake is a better tanker.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.05.04 18:59:00 - [3] CNR 16.6% better base missile DPS output. Crap passive tank, as most BSs. Identical active tank to a regular Raven (negligibly better due to a tiny bit more passive recharge). Rattlesnake Same base missile DPS output as a normal Raven. Pretty good passive tank (Drake-level even). A lot cheaper as the ship itself too. Either slightly better active tank as a Raven or slightly better damage, due to extra lowslot (extra PDU or extra BCU). _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.04 20:48:00 - [4] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 04/05/2007 20:46:23 Originally by: Akita T CNR 16.6% better base missile DPS output. Crap passive tank, as most BSs. Identical active tank to a regular Raven (negligibly better due to a tiny bit more passive recharge). Rattlesnake Same base missile DPS output as a normal Raven. Pretty good passive tank (Drake-level even). A lot cheaper as the ship itself too. Either slightly better active tank as a Raven or slightly better damage, due to extra lowslot (extra PDU or extra BCU). Well seeing how a 4th BCU does jack for your damage, but you only have 6 missile hardpoints, there it no way a Rattlesnake will do better damage than a properly fit CNR. It only has better tank, but since the CNR can tank every lvl4 already anyway, there is no real point in using the Rattlesnake for missions except maybe its looks. To me the actual main strongpoint of the CNR is not simply its higher DPS, but the fact that with 7 torps you always one-volley BCs, which is not possible with just 6. And one-volleying stuff helps a LOT with clearing the stages faster. CNR = Best mission ship Rattlesnake = Best PvP BS (along with the Bhaalgorn) --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
EVILSATAN	Posted - 2007.05.04 21:03:00 - [5] I use a RS cause I dont have to worry about shields and can go semi-afk.
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.04 21:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Akita T Pretty good passive tank (Drake-level even). You think the tank of a Drake is even close to what the Rattlesnake can manage? --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.04 21:43:00 - [7] In fact the Drake DOES have the better passive tank. The RS is just the only BS where a passive tank is even an option. Of course the RS wins on total HP, but the Drake has the better recharge and resists. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
TIvian Caldari Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:49:00 - [8] I would have to say based on my experiences that there is a marked difference between these 2 ships based on players skill level vs Character skill level. all though character skill level does have alot to do with it, In other words can you fly these ships? or can you fly them both EFFECTIVLY? The CNR has more structure and Armor than the RS. But the RS only has 1500 more shields than the CNR. Same shield racharge rate....crappy so I don't know why anyone would want to passive tank either of them. But the biggest overall scale tipper is the 7th Launcher point. The RS's 50% velocity increase only means RS's missiles get to target faster...big deal...at most insignificant D.O.T bonus. CNR 4tw in my opp. Just the uber carebear mission running NPCing ship in the game. PvP in either of these ships doesn't matter....just gets you called primary target. I would have to say that the most uber carebear ship in game would have to be the Raven State Issue. 8 launchers and a ton of shields Armor and Structure with mass powergrid and CPU.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.05.05 00:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Marquis Dean You think the tank of a Drake is even close to what the Rattlesnake can manage? Pretty much, yeah, about the same level, with a "valid" mission-running setup. Drake, 3 LSEs, 3 hardners, 2 SPRs and 2 BCUs Rattlesnake, 1 (or 2) LSE, 2 (or 1) recharger, 3 hardners, 3 SPRs and 3 BCUs _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
null01001	Posted - 2007.05.05 00:20:00 - [10] Forgive my english, im french Leandro, you make a point here. Be able to pop BC in 1 volley is a net advantage over the Rattle. Myself running mission in my Rattle for over a year now i never found CNR better to run mission. I'm more up for defense fitting and the Rattle, fitted with top mod have an anwsome tank. Always between 26k and 42k shield with shield rig cap and regen plus respectable resist (80% and more) for the rats dmg specific ). in some lvl 4 i dont even hit the Shield booster, like in GE bonus.. I learn a lesson after i've lost 2 Ravens (and 1 Rattle actually but this 1 CCP have refund me) in lvl 4 missions because of connections lost (1 in AE bonus .. no chance to survive here) so now i prefer going to the safe run with the sporadic connection problem. I remember doing an AE bonus someday and suddenly my comp crash BSOD. i reboot, relog and surprise, Rattle still in 1 piece holding dmg
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.05 08:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well seeing how a 4th BCU does jack for your damage, but you only have 6 missile hardpoints, there it no way a Rattlesnake will do better damage than a properly fit CNR. He said "Raven", not "CNR".
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.05 09:38:00 - [12] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 05/05/2007 09:35:14 Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well seeing how a 4th BCU does jack for your damage, but you only have 6 missile hardpoints, there it no way a Rattlesnake will do better damage than a properly fit CNR. He said "Raven", not "CNR". Oh yeah... Well, the OP asked for comparison to CNR, not Raven --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.05 15:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 05/05/2007 00:23:21 Originally by: Marquis Dean You think the tank of a Drake is even close to what the Rattlesnake can manage? Pretty much, yeah, about the same level, with a "valid" mission-running setup. Drake, 3 LSEs, 3 hardners, 2 SPRs and 2 BCUs Rattlesnake, 1 (or 2) LSE, 2 (or 1) recharger, 3 hardners, 3 SPRs and 3 BCUs Note: 1 LSE + 2 rechargers is best for peak recharge Before any skills, implants and rigs are taken into account (which would be identical on both setups anyway): Drake gets 13344 HP, recharge in 722 seconds (46.20 peak) Rattlesnake gets 15375 HP, recharge in 792.9 seconds (48.47 peak) Also, Drake gets the non-stack-nerfable resist bonuses, with L5 battlecruisers is as if it would recharge 61.60 peak. The Rattlesnake can swap out a BCU for another SPR, but then it could have problems perma-running all 3 hardners, but at least it does get an equivalent 63.78 peak recharge that way. Of course, I haven't factored in skills, implants nor rigs. Adjust actual peak recharge according to yours. Ratios don't change anyway. Maximum "recharge" multiplier (gnome implants, solo max skills, 3 T2 purger rigs) is aprox *4.36647. That's 201.7 per sec for Drake (equivalent of Rattlesnake "269 per sec" adjusted for L5 BCs), and a whopping 278.5 per second peak for the 4 x SPR-II Rattlesnake. So yeah, pretty much the same passive tank level, with slightly more buffer and more vulnerable to capacitor issues. Here you see why it's crap to make a passive tank on the rattelsnake. You sacrifice 3 rigslots, 4 lowslots, and my aktive tank is still better, using only 2 lowslots and 2 rig slots: 2 dg invuls + 243.6hp/second permarunning active tank. 243.5 running permanently is better than 278.5 peak recharge, caus most of the time it's less for you and if it's beyond peak it's less again ... and right, i have a passive peak of 25, so its even 243.5+25=268.5, with this comes an extra launcher, an extra bcu and an extra rigslot (for a rigor rig). For lvl4s: CNR > Rattelsnake For tank-lovers (lvl5 maybe ? caus no lvl4 even comes close to break my tank): Active Rattelsnake > Passive Rattelsnake. @ guy up with connection problems: get a permarunning gist xl-tank, whenever you undock/jump thru gate, active ur modules before you warp to mission, you don't need a passive tank to be immune against disconnects.
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.06 15:10:00 - [14] People always forget about the gun bonuses on the RS. One extra BCU, and 2 350 rails, will outdamage one extra cruise or torp if you got decent gunnery skills. Also, the RS WAY more cooler.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.06 15:51:00 - [15] RS sure is cooler looking. Thats about it where it advantages over properly fitted CNR will end in lev 4 missionrunning. And if guns would be good idea for missionrunning then gallente would be king of PvE. In theory dropping 2 guns on regular raven would help it also as it would in CNR last hi slot but for some reason people do not use them that way. And there is reason for that. It is just not the most effective way of running missions and in practice it's hard to use that theoretical dps provided by those guns in missions. That is why CNR with 7 missile slots is better (faster/more effective) missionrunner than RS. RS wins in pvp situations with it's better tank (or so i have heard I dont own RS, onlt CNR's).
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle People always forget about the gun bonuses on the RS. One extra BCU, and 2 350 rails, will outdamage one extra cruise or torp if you got decent gunnery skills. Also, the RS WAY more cooler. That is just not true. For one, a 4th BCU is only an insignificant increase in damage. Also: 1 Siege-II with 3 T2 BCUs = 96 dps on RS with BS and support skills 4 (5 in RoF skill) 1 350mm-II with no magstabs = 36.5 dps on RS with BS and support skills 4 (5 in RoF skill) Seeing how torps do ALL their damage in the correctÖ damage type and the rails are stuck with kin/therm, even 3 of them would not be enough to make up the loss of one torp launcher imho. Two come away very lacking for sure. Considering most high end fits have DG BCUs and possibly missile implants, it is even worse for the guns there. Really, the only thing going for a rattler vs CNR in L4s is looks. Nothing else. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:28:00 - [17] Edited by: Sokratesz on 06/05/2007 16:24:45 RS is sexier. But CNR does more damage.

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