| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rahzelk
   |
Posted - 2004.01.02 19:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rahzelk on 03/01/2004 10:10:44
Missiles really need balance, here's why :
 the lighter the missile, the slower it is ?  Why Cruise missile are actually faster than light missile ????
I thought that light missiles were efficient against fregate and cruise were efficient against cruiser/BS... but actually, cruise is the best for ALL occasions  ! The bigger should be the slower
Add various missile launcher : a rocket launcher shouldn't be the same as a missile launcher or a mine launcher ! And add some variety because as it stand now, we basically have : A3, M12, H50 and Siege...
Also, a missile launcher shouldn't be able to launch rockets or mines....
Reloading times on missile launcher : 10 seconds is a joke ! Fit a M12, then fire at a better rate than someone who fit a H50 ?! Increase missile launcher reload time.
An idea while i'm at it : would be cool if we could fire at missile while they arrive on us....(Yeah, we already have defender missiles, I know...  )
Of course it would take a certain time to "lock target" on missiles because their signature is very small. But at least it would add a funny way to defend ourselves when someone is firing from very long range. And because of the lock target time, I suppose only a frigate could manage to destroy a missile this way. Thus, it'd increase the interest of fregate's fighting ! 
If CCP fix these issues, it would be already a good step in the weapon balancing... coz' at the moment, missiles are still the best and most used weapon when comes fight !
(elegance-corp.net)
Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped. |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.01.02 19:37:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
the lighter the missile, the slower it is ? Why Cruise missile are actually faster than light missile ????
I thought that light missiles were efficient against fregate and cruise were efficient against cruiser/BS... but actually, cruise is the best for ALL occasions ! The bigger should be the slower
Difference lies in agility.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.01.02 21:14:00 -
[3]
Quote:
If CCP fix these issues, it would be already a good step in the weapon balancing... coz' at the moment, missiles are still the best weapon when comes fight !
you're so right because there's absolutely nothing you can do to prevent missile from hitting you at all......
dude missiles aren't overpowered. it's just that ppl are to lazy to equipp to be able to defend against them.
the only thing i can do to stop your turrets from htting me are weapon disruptors, but then again, they wont stop you from hitting me, they just let you hit me fewer times with less accuracy. |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.01.02 21:25:00 -
[4]
Tracking Disruptors work against launchers, though?
Why else would a siege launcher description state:
"Contains a huge missile capacity, but has a slow firing rate and trouble targeting small, fast ships."
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.01.02 22:00:00 -
[5]
it doesn't Josh, or does a siege launcher have a "Targeting speed" attribute?
the only thing that could be wrong with missiles is that it seems to be to difficult to evade from them in a frig.
btw caldari ship descriptions also state they're small and fast...... ergo descriptions are pointless ;) |
Foomanshoe
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 00:17:00 -
[6]
If a Frig is orbiting its not hard to evade missiles, i managed to dodge light missiles in my shuttle 
_______________________________________________
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 02:43:00 -
[7]
one thing: Were is our FalkGuns/point defence lasers?
we do got Defender rockets yes.. but not any other viable AMS system (Smartbombs sucs)
and it whuld look cool to see a flak gun automatikly shooting on missiles and litle flak explosion clouds near missiles, or lasers trying to hit missile....
and if u are whinig abaut - for example Typhoon arming it self whit flaks and Siegelaunchers - u can do the same  and ull got nice missilefight... were every missile hit counts becuse not many get trough. or dont use missile at all :P
and it whuld make usage of smaller rockets viable.... they Are harder to intercept becuse they are smaller   
-------------------------------------------
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 02:47:00 -
[8]
"Why else would a siege launcher description state:
"Contains a huge missile capacity, but has a slow firing rate and trouble targeting small, fast ships."
"
... For the same reason the description of Apocalypse says:
"Only those in high favor with the Emperor can earn the reward of commanding one of the majestic and powerful Apocalypse class battleships." ;s
|
Joe
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 04:03:00 -
[9]
I think if anything the Launchers need balancing, not the Missles themselves.
A-3 Arbalast = 0.36 space
M-12 Arbalast = 1.44 space
I would have assumed the rare Variants would allow a larger load, 0.4, and 1.5 space, as with the H50 Variants, but the boost with these smaller Launchers is only significant if you use rockets.
Taranis WholeSale Deals. |
Rahzelk
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 10:01:00 -
[10]
Quote:
dude missiles aren't overpowered. it's just that ppl are to lazy to equipp to be able to defend against them.
the only thing i can do to stop your turrets from htting me are weapon disruptors, but then again, they wont stop you from hitting me, they just let you hit me fewer times with less accuracy.
Don't make me tell what I didn't say.
I didn't say that CCP should reduce damage on missiles.
I said that missile speed was not adequate.
I also said that missile launcher need more variant and specification. Do you fire hybrid ammo with a projectile weapon ? Do you fire large ammo with a small turret ? Definitely NOT !
So why a M12 (aka "small missile launcher") should be able to fire cruise missile (aka "large ammo") or torpedos/mines/rockets ??
And the last point about reloading tilmes is also obvious ! why th hell would I fit a H50, needing awful powergrid and CPU, while a simple m12 fire at a better rate and use way less ressources... ??
And please, don't tell me people aren't putting missiles they can on their ships. Missile is unavoidable in any combats, and that's because at the moment it is simply the best weapon for a fregate/cruiser. (not taking count on a BS here, as large turrets can hit very bad )
(elegance-corp.net)
Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped. |
|
|
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 11:47:00 -
[11]
Quote:
And please, don't tell me people aren't putting missiles they can on their ships. Missile is unavoidable in any combats, and that's because at the moment it is simply the best weapon for a fregate/cruiser. (not taking count on a BS here, as large turrets can hit very bad )
they'll always use what's easiest to use. and i don't see a problem with ppl using caracals as cheap missile platforms.
as for an anti missile turret, use a small or medium smartbomb (depends on the range/cap u want to use) 2 of those will take out almost any incoming missiles without even using a turret or launcher hardpoint.
there's enough defenses for missiles already. if you get a turret to kill missiles i want one to kill turret fire :p |
Rahzelk
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 12:31:00 -
[12]
Quote:
there's enough defenses for missiles already. if you get a turret to kill missiles i want one to kill turret fire :p
You are wrong. One small Smartbomb can't explose a cruise missile, you need at least 2 small smartbomb. Fit that on a fregate, & you have nothing more to attack :P
Add to this the extreme manual skill it requires to launch the smartbomb at the right moment (and while the missile arrives at 1600m/s) and you've got all but usable way to defect missiles.... :D
(elegance-corp.net)
Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped. |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 12:33:00 -
[13]
They need to make it so that missles are really good, but don't auto kill frigates. That's really the problem. You make cruise missles too fast, a frigate dies 1 shot, with no way to defend it self what so ever.
Then again, 1 shot from most large turrets finishes off a frigate too so /shrug.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Ana Khouri
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 13:35:00 -
[14]
The main problem is that the biggest missles are the fastest as well. That's like the biggest turrets having the fastest tracking speed, too, it doesn't makes sense. Because of this light and heavy missles are practically never used.
Missle speed relations should be light > heavy > cruise and not cruise > heavy > light.
free speech not allowed here |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 13:40:00 -
[15]
Quote:
The main problem is that the biggest missles are the fastest as well. That's like the biggest turrets having the fastest tracking speed, too, it doesn't makes sense. Because of this light and heavy missles are practically never used.
Missle speed relations should be light > heavy > cruise and not cruise > heavy > light.
The catch22 is that without speed, the big missles are useless at long distances, and most battleship fights take place at long distance now.
Turrets fire instantaneously and can usually kill a frigate in 1 shot, so what's the difference?
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Ana Khouri
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 13:46:00 -
[16]
That is true, but in order to achieve this you don't necessarily need to nerf the cruise & torp speeds.
You could enhance the speed of heavies to 2.5 kms and the of lights to 5 kms and leave the cruise & torp speeds as they are. This would make heavies and lights usefull again without making the cruise and torps useless.
free speech not allowed here |
Deadflip2
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 14:02:00 -
[17]
in rl if i fire one of ehm tommahawks they're superfast, while a rocket fired from a shoulder is even faster but doesnt get so far, tommahawks fly in 100s of km and shoulder rockets no mroe then a couple kms... that unrealistic 2 isnt it... (if shoulder = light, tomma = cruiser).. torps are like nukes, should be slower and less agile but a bit more dmg... good against horder of incomming drones but hard to hit a ship at nice speed...
---
"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 17:24:00 -
[18]
1) One small smartbomb is enough to kill a cruise.
2) Anna: Torps are not faster than well trained heavies rockets and lights. Cruise are but their agility is completely ****e... it is extremely easy to avoid them by zipping past them.
3) Rahzlek compared : Can you fire hybrid ammo from a Projectile weapon. Wrong comparison. You compare them to subcategories like blasters and rails.
You take away the launchers ability to adjust it's responce by changing ammo and you completely nerf Missiles.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Ana Khouri
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 17:27:00 -
[19]
Wasn't speaking about torps, just light, heavy, cruise. It's true that cruise can be easily dodged - but light and heavies won't even scratch you since they are too slow.
free speech not allowed here |
Cao Cao
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 17:46:00 -
[20]
Quote:
in rl if i fire one of ehm tommahawks they're superfast, while a rocket fired from a shoulder is even faster but doesnt get so far, tommahawks fly in 100s of km and shoulder rockets no mroe then a couple kms... that unrealistic 2 isnt it... (if shoulder = light, tomma = cruiser).. torps are like nukes, should be slower and less agile but a bit more dmg... good against horder of incomming drones but hard to hit a ship at nice speed...
This is exactly the point I made in the other thread ... Missiles: Case Not Closed.
|
|
|
Kapernik
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 19:12:00 -
[21]
IMHO.
Missile Launchers should have reload time ( time between misssiles are loaded into launcher )and RoF ( time between missile are launched from it ). This would make another type of Launchers, that fire all missile that are loaded in it.
|
Rahzelk
|
Posted - 2004.01.03 23:36:00 -
[22]
Quote:
1) One small smartbomb is enough to kill a cruise.
I tried all an afternoon with a corp mate to do so. It is impossible. Small smartbombs can't destroy a cruise missile, it does only 50 dmg, not enought.
Quote:
3) Rahzlek compared : Can you fire hybrid ammo from a Projectile weapon. Wrong comparison.
Sorry to insist but missiles are not torpedos and are not mines too... A torpedo launcher and a mines launcher should be different from a missile launcher.
Quote:
You take away the launchers ability to adjust it's responce by changing ammo and you completely nerf Missiles.
I don't mind be able to swap from light to heavy then cruise missile with a same launcher. What i would like to be changed is the reload time... else, a M12 that reload in 10 seconds is better than a H50 that have a Rate of fire of 15sec. simply stupid.. isn't it ?
(elegance-corp.net)
Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped. |
Synapse
|
Posted - 2004.01.04 01:50:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Synapse on 04/01/2004 01:53:45
let me get this straight. You want to nerf the weapon in the game which:
a) costs the most to use
b) easiest to avoid (e.g I see a player pirate. he starts shooting me, i launch 6 missles. pirate :OMG 6 CRUISE missles i;ve got like 40 secodns til they hit me lets warp out!)
c) Easiest to defend against : Defenders, smart bombs (even if smart bombs dont kill every cruise, they will get at least 1 in 2 missles)
d) Slowest to weapon to reload
e) The weapon that you cant modify with modules
f) The weapon that will destroy a ship, then pod the enemy and the can of precious loot accidently :P
Get real lol. Missles are fine, you lazy git players just need to take a lesson in countering missles.
Nuff said.
P.s And as for realism, give me a break. Hardly anything in this game is realistic. Ships have a max speed in space ? ships slow down ? Laser weapons have a max range on them ? Lasers miss ? (for those retards out there, light travels in straight lines at the speed of light and is not effected by gravity - unless theres a blackhole :D) The list could go on forever, but i think you get the genral idea.
- + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + -
In a future where freedom is outlawed,
outlaws will become heros |
Ana Khouri
|
Posted - 2004.01.04 02:15:00 -
[24]
OT: Actually lasers do not have a infinite range in space (or anywhere else for that matter).
It is not possible to force all photons in a laser into the same vector, so the laser beam gets wider and wider with time until it's only warming a hull plate instead of melting/vaporizing it.
-----
The point of this thread is to make light and heavies usefull again. That doesn't necessarily means that cruise should be nerfed.
free speech not allowed here |
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.01.04 07:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Siddy on 04/01/2004 07:05:20
Quote:
OT: Actually lasers do not have a infinite range in space (or anywhere else for that matter).
It is not possible to force all photons in a laser into the same vector, so the laser beam gets wider and wider with time until it's only warming a hull plate instead of melting/vaporizing it.
-----
.
yes u can... by creating wortex like magnetick field that forses to photon partickles together and spin like in hurrikane....it will slow photon partickles 1/3 but increase the density of the beam and sustane it much longer than conventional lasres
other way whuld be Long wawe spekter usage (aka radiocrystals) thing is that 60km is waaaaay to small range for laser wepon...
but it all depends of the method u use to focuse beam and produce it
more damge it does the more unstable the beam gets, just because the quataty of photons releesed
but if it whuld be up to me Small lasers whuld got Loooong loong range....
and the Railguns to...imagine slug launched nearly a light speed.....
if it whuld be up to me rails whuld do most damage in the game
each shot will go trugh the enemy ship hull whit absolutly no problem (do the math, imagine 100 Neutton Charge in Velocity of 299,999 Km/s related of the target objekt (matter can't go faster than light speed, i dont cear explane because most of u are to simple to understand it) hit target in small area of 20CM2. now ..calkulate the sheer kinetic pover that the thing delivers .. not to talk of aftermath , when the slug passes - heat created in friktion whuld melt the hull)
but then agen.. it is not up to me
-------------------------------------------
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2004.01.04 07:13:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 04/01/2004 07:50:24
I hate siding with an EVie... Seems like it's bringing me closer to Josh *brrr*
Seriously tho, Synapse's points should have ended the argument. Given the posts following his are begining to argue the realism vs fiction, I'd say people are in trouble.
Cruise missiles and torpedos are fine. In fact, with just a little imagination you can even find a use for rockets. Provided you can think along the lines of exploiting the AI of defenders. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Rahzelk
|
Posted - 2004.01.04 11:27:00 -
[27]
Quote:
a) costs the most to use
If you want, but I'm not sure that people care, because PVP fight don't happen that often and when it comes, you fire and that's all, you're not like thinking "oh, again 20K that I launch in the air bouhouh..."
Quote:
b) easiest to avoid (e.g I see a player pirate. he starts shooting me, i launch 6 missles. pirate :OMG 6 CRUISE missles i;ve got like 40 secodns til they hit me lets warp out!)
Of course, i'm talking about fighting, not about fleeing away.... And even if avoiding them in frigate is largely possible, think about that : do you think you can hit your opponent with a 2000m/s speed ? I'm not sure your tracking speed will work lol... So during all the fight, you will be running here and there, avoiding missiles and never hitting you opponent...
Quote:
c) Easiest to defend against : Defenders, smart bombs (even if smart bombs dont kill every cruise, they will get at least 1 in 2 missles)
Defender sucks at close range, small smartbomb need an extrem timing to be efficient, kind of timing you haven't the time to concentrate on while fighting/stressed by the combat. Plus small smartbomb CAN'T destroy a cruise. They can destroy up to a heavy missile, but not a cruise. we can test it together whenever you want...
Quote:
d) Slowest to weapon to reload
Wrong. Event my 720 howitzer (medium weapon) take the same amount of time to reload, and doing only 180dmg each hit...
Quote:
e) The weapon that you cant modify with modules
f) The weapon that will destroy a ship, then pod the enemy and the can of precious loot accidently :P
lol. True.
And look, I never talked about damage nerf. Please read the original post before accusing of nerfing...
(elegance-corp.net)
Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped. |
Athan
|
Posted - 2004.01.04 14:51:00 -
[28]
Quote:
yes u can... by creating wortex like magnetick field that forses to photon partickles together and spin like in hurrikane....it will slow photon partickles 1/3 but increase the density of the beam and sustane it much longer than conventional lasres
Er, you're talking *******s. Photons are electro-magnetic radiation, but despite that name they can *NOT* be influenced by EM fields, it simply doesn't work that way.
Now, if you could create a large enough localised gravitational field you could focus them. It's long since been proven that light bends in a strong enough gravitational field.
Either way, you'd only end up with better focus, you'll never get it perfect.
-Ath, "moi? pedantic?"
--
http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery |
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.01.05 05:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Siddy on 05/01/2004 05:44:48
Light cant be bent by gravitational fields.. just FYI. and by magnetik fields i was clearly meening bending of space, if u gentelmens do even know how gravity works- based on hawkins new theory Universum isint 3 dimentional.. it is layered hologram like illuison- this theory supports newest calkulations on qunatum mechaniks
it it whuld be othervise, Hawkis blakhole theory whuld be scrapped
-------------------------------------------
|
Tensid
|
Posted - 2004.01.05 06:01:00 -
[30]
nerf missile boats even more? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA ....
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |