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[YAST]: eVe-Online - The hidden angel of the damned?

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Jenny Spitfire Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.04 20:34:00 - [1] eVe is the best game ever in the world because it is a sandbox game. So the Devs cannot be bothered on what the community does as long as it does not disrupt the game service. The community come in many forms but usually either crafters or combatants. Unlike other MMOs, eVe promotes evilness in players especially in the combat class community. Generally, I feel the combat caste is evil and likes to hurt other players who are not in their caste. Sad but true it is the crafters that are abused by the combat caste. I cannot understand why players in the combat caste are evil but I think it is because eVe is a sandbox game. Sadbox or sandbox? It does not matter because eVe has no rules. Great, no rules and eVe is a game. A game where players have Anonymity - nobody knows who is behind that toon and everyone is free to be anti-social. Boredom - restless, chilling and up to mischief because there is a need to release dullness and find excitement. Dehumanisation - my combat caste is better than your crafter caste and you do not belong here. Peer pressure - you have just killed a T2 hauler with 100M worth of loot and I need to kill a freighter with 10000M worth of loot. Power - my guns are bigger than yours so pew pew on your haulers and you are powerless to resist. And no you can't have T2s. Power does corrupt. Unaccountability - pew pew, you are dead and you cannot chase me because I am logging for the night. No wonder we crafters are at the receiving end of the combat caste because we are different. Am I right? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.04 20:46:00 - [2] I'm beginning to like her posts. No matter how fuzzy I get, no matter how powerful my stare, there will always be a greater carebear than I, and thus my soul is saved. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Agillious Gallente Inner Circle Helter-Skelter	Posted - 2007.05.04 20:50:00 - [3] Yes, there are bad elements in EVE. There are also bad elements that have access to the world wide web. Does this mean that the Internet is the hidden "Angel of the Damned" in technological developments? I too believe that some people in EVE act out on the most base, anti-social, dehumanizing emotions that humans can concieve. I also believe that these are choices made by the players, not by EVE forcing players to act in a particular manner. Some people in EVE also engage in some heart-warming acts of altruism. I think the difference in yours and my opinions rests on where the impetus to act 'evilly' lays. I beleive it lays with the player. There are real humans making choices in the game, ergo, the choice to act anti-socially is committed by a real person. CCP isn't in this to be behavior police. They created a world, and let people populate it. Perhaps CCP's only gaffe was failing to create a structure by which people in game could enforce agreements or enforce "laws". Perhaps CCP misjudged when they left the idea of consequences for "evil" actions in the hands of the player-base. I am not devaluing your opinions here, but I think you might be remiss is claiming that EVE itself promotes the 'evilness' you mention. Rather, I believe that EVE let's people be who they want to be. EVE is a tool used by people in the way that people truly are. MORE SHINY, PLEASE!!!
Gladia Horusthu Gallente Anything Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.04 20:51:00 - [4] Edited by: Gladia Horusthu on 04/05/2007 20:49:25 I'm beginning to wish that I had a combat character right now, so I could be evil. Yes, everyone has the ability to make this choice. The game doesn't really penalize you for making either choice. And if that is a problem, simply dump Jenny's account and give it to someone who appreciates what Eve is. Edit: and by "dump" I mean use CCP's transfer services.
Countess Amarra	Posted - 2007.05.04 20:53:00 - [5] YASTR Woot, another jENNY sPITFIRE thread. Your own words "EvE is sadistically and masochistically satisfying." You were a big proponent of inflicting maximum pain and suffering. Even you suicide ganked to get a Vagabond BPO. Reap what you sow babe.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.04 20:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Gladia Horusthu And if that is a problem, simply dump Jenny's account and give it to someone who appreciates what Eve is. WTB Ubar PvP toon. Bewbies a plus! This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Juneau Vespertine Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.04 21:19:00 - [7] I heart every single YAST. I busted out laughing at "sadbox or sandbox", hopefully that catches on. Also I think some people just find it fun to play the game against other people by shooting at them, in a friendly competitiveness sort of way. Most people give a lot of respect to those who'll fight back and try to engage. "Crafter caste" types, of which I am one, usually can't compete and fight back directly, but they can still compete, can still out-think the opponent without carrying a single weapon. Sometimes they lose. There are some groups of people that I think would fall under some of your concepts, but I don't think the "evil combat caste" as you've put it would end up being a very large group. Some of the pirates, some of the territorialists, and some of the crafters, because we too can shape the way we act because of unaccountability, peer pressure, power etc. Even though us crafters don't use guns, some of us can be just as ruthless.
Stakhanov Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:22:00 - [8] How dare you denounce evil and griefing in Eve , when you do this with Jenny Spitfire's name ? It is so unnatural , sickening and heart wrenching to anyone who loves Eve for what it is
Ash Vincetti Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:04:00 - [9] Actually, we are just venting our aggression at having our wallets raped by the "crafter caste" in the only way we know how. You enjoy selling overpriced goods, we enjoy going "pew pew" back. If you don't like to be shot by your own guns, then don't build guns for us to shoot you with. -----
Morfane The IMorral MAjority Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:09:00 - [10] You keep using that word 'caste'. I do not think it means what you think it means. caste n an endogamous and hereditary social group limited to persons of the same rank, occupation, economic position, etc., and having mores distinguishing it from other such groups. Eve doesnt have castes. Big feature of this game is the lack of rigid classes. My point: buy guns and fight back against those who would eat you. "When I was prey I spoke as prey I understood as prey I thought as prey; but when I became a preditor I put away preyish things." I Cor. xiii. 11. See? Even the bible agrees.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Requiem of Hades	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:08:00 - [11] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/05/2007 12:05:45 I believe I have used the word caste properly. I see the playerbase is divided into two categories, crafters and combatants. Combatant caste will never accept we are their equals because we play the game differently. Like I do not believe in high sec defenseless freighter griefing is acceptable and I am sure the hauling community would agree with me. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Holocost	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:13:00 - [12] but but but........I do combat AND crafting! how else am I gonna be able to fund my ammo?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Requiem of Hades	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:26:00 - [13] You are special because you sit on the fence. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Morfane The IMorral MAjority Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.05 14:33:00 - [14] My point was that castes imply rigidity, ie: you cannot change from a warrior to a builder. This is not true in eve. Builders can fight back, warriors can buy blueprints and minerals and use them to build their stuff.
Gladia Horusthu Gallente Anything Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.05 14:51:00 - [15] Eve has no castes. Every character is able to train any skills and indulge in every career given the time to train the basic skills for it. That is one of the fundamental principles of Eve. When it comes to "player" there is a complete breakdown of definition, for many players maintain multiple accounts simply to indulge in both combat and industry with equal proficiency at the same time.
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.05.05 15:06:00 - [16] I think you have somehow gotten the idea that we (PvP'ers, pirates, 'combatants') hate all the industrial/carebear players, just because they are playing the game differently. What a load of BS! What do you base that on? Because we kill you when we get the chance? The fact of the matter is, that we are able to kill people in this game. If you (as a 'crafter caste' player have put yourself in a position where you can be killed, is that not your own fault? Please keep blaiming the rest of EVE instead of yourself. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No wonder we crafters are at the receiving end of the combat caste because we are different. Am I right? What the hell? Most 'combat caste' players attack whatever they have the chance of shooting. Whether it's an enemy fleet, or just some poor sod in his Badger jumping through the wrong gate at the wrong time. On the recieving end? Then tell me this. How the hell would your game experience be if there was no fighting? Who would buy the ships, mods or ammo you build? Who would buy the Faction/Deadspace/whatever loot you ***** in complexes? If no ships were destroyed, nobody would. I dare say that it's us PvP'er who are on the recieving end, because no matter what happens in any engagement, some 'crafter caste' will get our hard earned isk because the loser would need a new ship. So no matter what, the 'caste' in general would come out the better. You sodding griefers, leave us alone! Resistance is Fertile.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.05.05 15:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire eVe is the best game ever in the world because it is a sandbox game. So the Devs cannot be bothered on what the community does as long as it does not disrupt the game service. The community come in many forms but usually either crafters or combatants. Unlike other MMOs, eVe promotes evilness in players especially in the combat class community. Generally, I feel the combat caste is evil and likes to hurt other players who are not in their caste. Sad but true it is the crafters that are abused by the combat caste. I cannot understand why players in the combat caste are evil but I think it is because eVe is a sandbox game. Sadbox or sandbox? It does not matter because eVe has no rules. Great, no rules and eVe is a game. A game where players have Anonymity - nobody knows who is behind that toon and everyone is free to be anti-social. Boredom - restless, chilling and up to mischief because there is a need to release dullness and find excitement. Dehumanisation - my combat caste is better than your crafter caste and you do not belong here. Peer pressure - you have just killed a T2 hauler with 100M worth of loot and I need to kill a freighter with 10000M worth of loot. Power - my guns are bigger than yours so pew pew on your haulers and you are powerless to resist. And no you can't have T2s. Power does corrupt. Unaccountability - pew pew, you are dead and you cannot chase me because I am logging for the night. No wonder we crafters are at the receiving end of the combat caste because we are different. Am I right? You can get revenge on the "combat caste" by raising your prices. If you want protection from their guns, they get protection from your prices. In hi-sec, no-one's allowed to PvP, but all prices are fixed at the nominal mineral cost of the item. If you want to sell for the price you like, then you have to leave the safe, cosy core to go where where the "combat caste" can shoot who they like. That would be fair, don't you think. How's that sound? Sounds bad you say? Perhaps that's because whining for a one-sided deal only sounds sweet when it's on your side.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.05.05 15:13:00 - [18] BTW every time I read one of your posts, Jenny, I get a little bit closer to turning pirate, just so I can "grief" you. And after several months, there really isn't much holding me back now. The only thing stopping me is a lurking suspicion that you're satirising the carebears with spoof posts.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.05.05 15:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/05/2007 12:05:45 I believe I have used the word caste properly. I see the playerbase is divided into two categories, crafters and combatants. Combatant caste will never accept we are their equals because we play the game differently. Like I do not believe in high sec defenseless freighter griefing is acceptable and I am sure the hauling community would agree with me. There arecastes in the game: - Those who accept & enjoy EVE for what it is and play accordingly - Those who whine and cry for special treatment There are PvPers and Industrialists in both categories.
Captain Crimson	Posted - 2007.05.05 15:31:00 - [20] People are antisocial on EVE because they are scared to be in real-life. Or maybe they have no real-world friends. Awww, cry some more then. But yea, they whole 'I'm going to grief you for your forum posts/career in EVE/ music tastes is getting daft. It's worse than counter strike. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.05.06 22:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Captain Crimson People are antisocial on EVE because they are scared to be in real-life. Or maybe they have no real-world friends. Awww, cry some more then. But yea, they whole 'I'm going to grief you for your forum posts/career in EVE/ music tastes is getting daft. It's worse than counter strike. If anyhting, that is what it seems like sometimes or most of the time I get into PvP. Since I usualy always loose PvP fights, I have to have fun being the prey or I got to forget about PvP in EVE. Either that or Blob with others and hide behind the good PvP'ers. A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :)
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:03:00 - [22] Actually there used to be 4 classes in Eve: T2 BPO holders Macrominers Losers / everybody else and i forget the last one (not my own words). Crafter might be a caste but it isn't a class. If you're getting shot, you need friends who like to pvp. Also remember, as a business person, you need to factor in the risk of getting shot to your activities. If it ain't safe or you've not got security, you're taking a risk and you've got to deal with that Khaldari Research Services KPA Recruiting!
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:08:00 - [23] but yeah, I hate getting ganked as a crafter type too. Fortunately for me, this char is half combat, so I can usually exact revenge or at least make an uberspeed hauler with all nanos and evasive V Khaldari Research Services KPA Recruiting!
Major Stormer Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:09:00 - [24] *misses old jenny
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Captain Crimson But yea, they whole 'I'm going to grief you for your forum posts/career in EVE/ music tastes is getting daft. It's worse than counter strike. This is why I play on German servers. All i need to know is "Ich habe die bombe" Khaldari Research Services KPA Recruiting!
H'wi Noree Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Major Stormer *misses old jenny I think the character has changed hands, even the old jenny wasnt this stupid. _____ I have no sig :(
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:28:00 - [27] i hope this is not a serious thread... As one of your evil cast.. which by the way I role play, I often kill members of the "crafting cast" My dislike for them has nothing to do with what they do in the game, but their constant insistence that they should be able to play without having any risk or participating in combat. Eve is about player vs player conflict, some times thats market based some times its space combat, but there is no doubt that you have to compete for resources and safety. Lots of "carebears" seem to think that combat is silly and has no part in the game, they simply are not interested in it. Thats fine, then they need to hire people to defend them so they dont have to fight, but they cant just assume that CCP will protect them. As a combat pilot I am FORCED to participate in market mechanics, or i have to mine, or mission run. despite the fact that i find almost no enjoyment in doing these things they are NOT optional for combat pilots. The anger and anti social behavior you speak of comes not from disliking people who build and mine for me, but the people who think that i should have to play in their world but they should not have to play in mine. I am not better than non combatants, i do not use alts, nor do i hide who i am in the game, i could not care less about being more powerful than you, and you will NEVER catch me logging off after killing you unless i have a real life reason to do so. Recruiting Terrorists
R3dSh1ft FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:29:00 - [28] I totally agree JS was sold to a isk farmer or something :'( ______________________________________
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.07 00:39:00 - [29] When I shoot people in counter strike, over and over again, in the head, to see their blood splatter all over the wall behind them, and derive pleasure out of watching their bodies splay across the floor... It's because of anonymity, boredom, dehumanization, peer pressure, power, and "unaccountability" (except that they will shoot me back later). - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Li Jhakarra	Posted - 2007.05.07 10:44:00 - [30] Why not just be more sociable and ask fellow corps members to assist you while you travel in your hauler? If no one does, find a more helpful corp, many out there.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Requiem of Hades	Posted - 2007.05.07 10:52:00 - [31] Funny. I feel eVe is a Devil's game. eVe sets a stage and allows player to have a free will. Maybe in eVe, no rules and free wills promote social dysfunctional in game. It is like you put a poor youngster and an old rich lady in the same room and you could guess what would happen next. Like I said, you do not have to agree with me but that is how I feel as a crafter in eVe. We are shunned by the eVe "elites" when we have a crafter tag branded on our body. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:21:00 - [32] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 07/05/2007 12:31:04
Kaar Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire It is like you put a poor youngster and an old rich lady in the same room and you could guess what would happen next. You have a filthy mind Jenny...or maybe thats just me? Also, I fear this is the original Jenny, the "eVe" gives it away. Didnt that same JS run around 0.0 and lowsec killing people without mercy? --- ---
Pellaeon DuGalle Caldari Deep Black Industries	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:02:00 - [34] I miss Jenny. ------------------- "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible."
Zahril Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:08:00 - [35] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Funny. I feel eVe is a Devil's game. This seriously made me laugh out loud. Good stuff.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:14:00 - [36] I bet the original owner of Jenny Spitfire is laughing her ass off, selling her character to the largest carebear in the galaxy to make a point. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Del ReyII Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Jim McGregor I bet the original owner of Jenny Spitfire is laughing her ass off, selling her character to the largest carebear in the galaxy to make a point. :) I was thinking the same thing.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:19:00 - [38] Originally by: Ryas Nia i hope this is not a serious thread... As one of your evil cast.. which by the way I role play, I often kill members of the "crafting cast" My dislike for them has nothing to do with what they do in the game, but their constant insistence that they should be able to play without having any risk or participating in combat. Eve is about player vs player conflict, some times thats market based some times its space combat, but there is no doubt that you have to compete for resources and safety. Lots of "carebears" seem to think that combat is silly and has no part in the game, they simply are not interested in it. Thats fine, then they need to hire people to defend them so they dont have to fight, but they cant just assume that CCP will protect them. As a combat pilot I am FORCED to participate in market mechanics, or i have to mine, or mission run. despite the fact that i find almost no enjoyment in doing these things they are NOT optional for combat pilots. The anger and anti social behavior you speak of comes not from disliking people who build and mine for me, but the people who think that i should have to play in their world but they should not have to play in mine. I am not better than non combatants, i do not use alts, nor do i hide who i am in the game, i could not care less about being more powerful than you, and you will NEVER catch me logging off after killing you unless i have a real life reason to do so. well said, i agree with EVERYTHING this post has to say. ____________ DubanFP > where ever there is a player that's getting too rich, wherever there's an industrial with too much loot, wherever there is a noob with too much smack we'll be there...
Mogrin	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:53:00 - [39] eve mixes two very, VERY different types of players Carebears, or whatever you wanna call us, like to do stuff like mine and mission, collect ship, and we do this to like form a collection, or to do mission/mining faster. We'll dabble into lowsec from time to time for whatever reason. Then there are 0.0 sec pvpers. Once you go out here i'm sure not only your game experience changes, but your entire psyche changes with it. I once loaded up my drake with 6 large t2 extenders and 4 warp core stabalizers and just went as far out as I could. I got to the very very edge of the eve galaxy, and being completely vulnerable with a couple ppl following me around systems was scary and exhilarating. I realized then that if I ever went out into a 0.0 corp that the way I think about eve would have to change. I would no longer fly a ship because I thought it was cool. I would no longer solo. I would no longer feel secure that I would still have my ship/implants in by the end of the session. I would no longer be bothered by losing ships or being podded. Jenny, the combat caste isn't evil, they are playing a completely separate game. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
stoicfaux	Posted - 2007.05.07 14:05:00 - [40] Quote: Unlike other MMOs, eVe promotes evilness in players especially in the combat class community. Wrong. All MMOs promote evilness. Instead of selfishly wasting your money and your time playing MMOs, you could be helping other people in real life or otherwise doing something meaningful that would help make the world a better place. Here, have a deviled bald eagle's egg. It'll make you feel better.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.07 15:09:00 - [41] There are no "castes" in this game. There are different player types. Calling everyone who pewpewpews a "combat player" as if we're all interchangable is insulting to the lot of us. I am a Mission Runner (predominantly). I am not a Pirate, I am not a Fleet Pilot, I am sometimes a Ratter. You lump us into one umbrella group when if you look REAL close, we're as different from one another as combat pilots are to crafters. You can't even remotely say that PvP and PvE pilots are the same kind of player. I wouldn't do that to crafter types to lump Miners, in with Researchers, or Manufacturers, or even Merchants, or Freighter Pilots. You can't distill players in this game out to such simple terms, doesn't work. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
britishfish Minmatar Mercenaries of Andosia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.09 21:59:00 - [42] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire It is like you put a poor youngster and an old rich lady in the same room and you could guess what would happen next Drop a point on the old lady`s zimmer frame (no need for a web shes old)check her for T2 cookies randsom her then let her go. seriously though i think eve is a release for loads of people bad day at work come home pod a few people that sort of thing. but not evil imo
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.09 22:01:00 - [43] And we hit a new low. You never seize to amaze "new" Jenny.
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:14:00 - [44] New Jenny makes me sad. Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:25:00 - [45] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire It is like you put a poor youngster and an old rich lady in the same room and you could guess what would happen next. Oooh Oooh let me guess first. Let me see....The old rich lady pays the poor young guy for, erm, shenanigans. I am right am I not? Eh? Eh? What do I win? BTW I used to regret being just too late to save your ass that time in 1v-, but since you are not you anymore you wont remember that will you? F4T4L Recruitment
Mallick Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:41:00 - [46] Ffs, Jenny has NEVER had a Vagabond BPO. It was just a PR stunt for you idiots, and feck, it fecking worked!

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