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DJ Blackman
Often AFK
1
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Posted - 2011.12.29 05:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Completed/Currently running bonds:
Bond #1 (500m isk, Matured, paid out): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=7422
and its subsequent thread announcing its completion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&m=127864
Bond #2 (2bn isk, Matured, paid out): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18073&find=unread
Bond #3 (3bn, Matured, paid out concurrently with bond 4): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23688
Bond #4 (5bn, Matured, paid out concurrently with bond 3): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30892&find=unread
Bond #5 (12bn, Matured, paid out): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=39360&p=2
Standard Introduction:
Hello to all - I have been playing eve close to 2 years now and have been practicing with small investments on the market. I believe I have been waiting for a while to get a chance to start a bond and this seems like a decent starting point.
A little bit about myself and my corp - My entire corp of Often AFK is my 2 mains and alts. All 6 chars are trained in PI, and I am currently running 12 planets in a WH with elite CC for PI which nets me between 700 to 800m a month with this char and another, Colonel Vatutin. My total assets excluding the resources in the WH come to about 37.2 bn at the moment, and that is not counting the last monthly income from PI of approx. 700-800m, increased now due to better PI market conditions to a little over 1.1bn. Most of them are heavily invested in the markets, and since I have been investing seriously since the end of august I have been able to gain a good 30% back on my investments due to heavy market PVP. I started with about 1.18 bn on liquid isk around the end of august this year, and is now investing a little over 24bn.
The #6 bond amount will be to 18bn, with shares offered at 100m increments for a total of 120 shares. The rate will be set at 12%, and I hope to fill it soon and run it until December 29th, 2011.
Otherwise, terms are similar to what it was in the past. Only this time, please send it to Colonel Vatutin.
I am still doing some PI after deciding against pulling out of the WH then concentrating on potential manufacturing and increased between-trading activities with DJ Blackman and other alts stationed in new eden. I would assume it would balance out the same as before, perhaps with slight increase. Even if everything somehow went south, I could potentially liquidate around 60% of my total market escrow to cover 20bn + interest at will from total of 34.2bn current escrow.
Details are as follows:
- 20bn total bond value, available in 100m for each bond share. 100,000,000.01 isk bonds will be returned to owners due not following instructions
- 12% return with principle at the end of the cycle exactly on Jan. 29th, 2012.
- Bond will run as soon as it is filled and iskies are received.
- Send ISK to Colonel Vatutin - my other main in the same corp.
- No collateral, only my trust and yours in making this work.
- Risk of running: As I always say, why the hell would I run off in a char with some few bucks worth of isk when I invested over twenty times that playing eve for 2 years on two accounts? Why would I risk ostracizing and biomassing my chars for this amount? To me, these two accounts are culmination of a series of hard-learned lessons that I hope to expand upon and achieve a notable degree of financial and influential success. But then, it all comes down to mutual trust in investments.
The reason I do so without a collateral offering is the following:
I believe trust is a valuable and most expensive commodity there is in the dog-eat world of eve online, and I hope to earn that trust to expand my business! Btw- chribba is a fine example of trust as an invaluable asset- I do hope I can do the same. In the future with greater amount I will be willing to use his services to secure collaterals, but I wanted to prove with these humble bond offerings that I can be trusted - with or without oversights. I believe this is a risky but sincere manner in which I hope to earn your trust. Normally such offerings will give 8-10%, but considering the risk, I am offering greater rates at 12%.
Furthermore, eve for me is a way to relieve stress in a virtual world; as generic as that sounds, some people actually have a life (WAT??) and I have my fill of dealing with scumbaggery and general s#ht in real life, I do not need more here. I want to explore just what I can achieve in a comparatively secure (trust me it is) environment that is eve and hope similarly like minded people would agree in this endeavor. If interested, see past threads about answers to questions regarding my policy in this matter.
Also, I will be willing to put up collaterals and other safety net options , so if you have concerns previous investors, please feel free to let me know. As you have chosen to offer me your trust, it is only fair that you have a place to suggest whether you would be more comfortable in such settings, or if you have no problems with current details. It is overall greater profit for all in its current state of offering, since more liquid isk flowing = greater chance at making profit. But ofcourse, you have a significant say in whether you will continue to feel comfortable, or suggest at which point you would like me to offer safety nets. As previous investors, It is entirely within your right to give such advice and ask for such details
Smooth sailing
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LlamaBin Llama
Club Bear
0
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Posted - 2011.12.29 06:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
First!
And in before trolls. |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
93
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Posted - 2011.12.29 06:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bond #1 - 500m Bond #2 - 2bn Bond #3 - 3bn Bond #4 - 5bn Bond #5 - 12bn Bong #6 - 20bn...
Have we reached your acceptable scam point yet? Or are you holding out for 50bil? Damn nature, you scary! |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
7
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Posted - 2011.12.29 11:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
I honestly can't think of anything that looks more transparently like a rep grind for a big cash-out. My guess is it will either be this one or the next one.
This is MD. Most people will get the Xbn that they ask for, regardless. There's no easier money in New Eden, it seems. But I'm just calling it like I see it. No hard feelings. |
Junnichi Asakura
The Tiandihui
4
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Posted - 2011.12.29 12:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Put me down for 5bn. I'll trasnfer the isk later today.
Happy isk-making! JA
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General Mic
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.29 15:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'll put in 1bn. |
Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2011.12.29 16:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
General Mic wrote:I'll put in 1bn. But I'm going to hold my money until I see more people invest into your bond.
Baa.
At least you're an honest sheep. |
General Mic
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.29 17:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Magnu Stormhawk wrote:General Mic wrote:I'll put in 1bn. But I'm going to hold my money until I see more people invest into your bond. Baa. At least you're an honest sheep.
Well since people are looking at this like a scam I don't want to put my money into it now and then it not reach its 20bn goal and fight to get my money back later. |
DJ Blackman
Often AFK
1
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Posted - 2011.12.29 18:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Juunichi Asakura - Your reservation of 5bn has been noted.
General Mic - Thank you for your interest. I am sure you will have time to put in that 1bn when a few more people show up =) Just remember the reservation policy, and that any and all requests for reservations must be clearly stated ('I would like to reserve so- and so- amount of isk/shares).
Keep it coming folks, and thank you again for your continued interest in these ventures. I just wish holidays ended sooner so I could have spent more time in eve last few weeks =) |
Hexxx
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.12.29 18:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
@DJ Blackman
It's erroneous to use the phrase "Shareholder" in the context of investing in your Bond. There is a large difference in debt vs. equity when it comes to financial instruments and for good reason. I can't make you change it, and it may seem like a small detail to you, but the phrase "Bondholder" is more appropriate and implies a different set of rights to the investor (which is ultimately more favorable to you).
See Defined Stock and Bond models for the EVE Market for some additional information if you're interested.
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DJ Blackman
Often AFK
1
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Posted - 2011.12.29 19:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
@ Hexxx
Thank you for your sound input. I will look into it at the earliest opportunity and make the changes within a day as I get the time to read through some of the things you mentioned.
Such helpful advice are all welcome. There cannot be any 'small' details where such bonds and offers are concerned =) |
General Mic
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.29 22:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
I apologize, I would like to reserve 10 shares for 1bn. |
DJ Blackman
Often AFK
1
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Posted - 2011.12.29 22:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
@ General Mic
Reservations noted. Thank you. |
Junnichi Asakura
The Tiandihui
4
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Posted - 2011.12.30 08:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Confirming Isk sent.
JA |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
94
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Posted - 2011.12.30 08:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
OP, why bother even logging in with Junnichi Asakura, a simple "My alt thinks all my offerings are legit" will do. For investors new to this, check previous investment threads, 10 points per suspicious similarity you find. Damn nature, you scary! |
Junnichi Asakura
The Tiandihui
4
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Posted - 2011.12.30 09:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
DelBoy Trades wrote:OP, why bother even logging in with Junnichi Asakura, a simple "My alt thinks all my offerings are legit" will do. For investors new to this, check previous investment threads, 10 points per suspicious similarity you find.
Confirming that investing in each of these sucessful Bond offerings since the start, and that my current feeling is that the OP is trustworthy, means I am an alt... How points have I scored for posting like how I post btw?
and to be honest, if you are basing your theory on posts in the previous Bond offerings wouldn't it be fair to say you, Elise and Eddie are also alts of the OP too! Perhaps he's bi-polar are you are the evil-alts and i'm one of the good-alts?!
JA
(edit: spelling failure) |
DJ Blackman
Often AFK
1
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Posted - 2011.12.30 16:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Confirming JA isk received. Thank you. I hope you invest even more in the future =)
Waiting on General Mic....with about 6 hours to go |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
7
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Posted - 2011.12.30 22:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ignoring comes off like steamrolling. Not an appealing look for a bond offerer. |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
108
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Posted - 2011.12.31 09:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
JA, you come to these threads defense an awful lot for a meer investor. Damn nature, you scary! |
DJ Blackman
Often AFK
2
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Posted - 2011.12.31 12:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
we can do api check to confirm we are all separate entities through a trustworthy 3rd party (oh but I thought u never trusted anyone?) - but you will have to foot the bill, and receive JA's consent. I will speak with him to see if he is willing to do so, but remember, you will have to foot the bill and put money where your mouth is =) |
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DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
174
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Posted - 2011.12.31 16:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
You realise an API check will do nothing to prove he's not your alt, I know it's nearly unheard of, but some people have more than one account on this particular game! Shock, horror, I know. Damn nature, you scary! |
DJ Blackman
Often AFK
78
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Posted - 2012.01.01 01:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
DelBoy Trades wrote:You realise an API check will do nothing to prove he's not your alt, I know it's nearly unheard of, but some people have more than one account on this particular game! Shock, horror, I know.
lol but it can prove great many things about transactions, etc that can raise questions about whether one person operating them can do at once, etc. But then, what do I know. apparently a person can be in two places at once according to scam paranoia in these boards =)
Healthy skepticism is all well and good, but there comes a point where neither you or even the offering party can offer absolute proof of any kind to off set some of the wildest delusions of self-serving 'clairvoyant forum wisdom (lol) of people who not only make baseless accusations (I can feel it in my guts! he never said people should believe him but I will think he does because that's what "I" always do and everyone thinks like mehhh) but actually believe it is their right to presume facts.
Really, so many ways a person can scam, so many ways a person can try to make it look like an alt, or not.....it's a really moot question. If you are so keen to know, why don't you ask CCP? If any one would actually allow this in ccp (probably not at all likely lol), I would be happy to give a go-ahead and let them tell you whether JA and my accounts are under different names, different RL accounts, etc. Just a yes or no answer with no details. Make a petition, never hurts to try....or are you simply saying cheap words but are not willing to take action?
But even in your wildest dreams they would allow that, you would still :gasp: wonder if this is one person operating two different accounts with identity theft?
Would you like your tin foil hat now? |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
34
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Posted - 2012.01.01 02:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
The "lol" and smiley faces tossed sneeringly into your defensive posts are pretty revealing. You can learn a lot about somebody's character by how they maintain composure under pressure. I don't think you're doing a very good job right now. |
DJ Blackman
Often AFK
78
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Posted - 2012.01.01 03:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
It only seemed fitting, seeing as how such folks would like to throw around such baseless accusations not only for myself but other innocent bystandards as well. Perhaps they would like to invest and find out for themselves how accurate their 'predictions' are? 'Pressure' seems like an over reaction.....maybe pestering would be a better word for it. You can also learn a lot about a person doing such things as well.
But no matter.....no hard feelings, right mu-shi? :tinfoilhat: |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
176
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Posted - 2012.01.01 09:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
These accusations have a base. The whole concept of the rep-grinding, gradual bond size increase offering, where no collateral is offered is more than not a scam. To just pick a number out of my backside I'll say 80% of these growing offerings end up in a scam of some kind. It is therefore the norm that a thread like this is a scam. Instead of arguing the same points that are always thrown about, why not prove it and offer some collateral to a third party. You can make us out to be "tin-foil hatters" but you know as well as we do that there is a very small chance you're not going to scam, simply by just playing the odds...I'm getting a strong sense of deja vu, I was giving very similar responses to almost identical defenses a couple of months ago to that Jita Bank bloke. I hope you have some interesting vids of Youtube to be found too.
Oh, and this isn't pestering, it's derailment. Damn nature, you scary! |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
93
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Posted - 2012.01.01 09:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
I offer cheap 3rd party collateral handling. Since I held well MD tracked > 90B already, 20B are nuggets. |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
34
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Posted - 2012.01.01 10:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:I believe trust is a valuable and most expensive commodity there is in the dog-eat world of eve online, and I hope to earn that trust to expand my business! Btw- chribba is a fine example of trust as an invaluable asset- I do hope I can do the same. In the future with greater amount I will be willing to use his services to secure collaterals, but I wanted to prove with these humble bond offerings that I can be trusted - with or without oversights. I believe this is a risky but sincere manner in which I hope to earn your trust. Normally such offerings will give 8-10%, but considering the risk, I am offering greater rates at 12%.
Let me just take apart this paragraph from your proposal.
First, you say that you "believe trust is a valuable and most expensive commodity there is in the dog-eat world of eve online," and propose to earn this trust by not posting collateral for a 20bn ISK loan. That is literally what you say in the first sentence of the paragraph. Here's why I'm not providing collateral: because I want to build trust! I can already tell you're a glass-half-full kind of guy.
Secondly, you invoke Chribba's name as a blind swipe at building legitimacy.
Third, you go on to completely contradict the twisted point you made in your first sentence by saying that, sometime down the line, "I will be willing to use his services to secure collaterals." Why, in this speculative future scenario, would you need to provide Chribba with collateral to hold onto, if you're destined to be the type of trustworthy guy who doesn't need to put up collateral in the first place?
Fourth, according to you 20bn ISK is a "humble bond offering," and you seem to indicate that such piddly amounts just don't need to be secured by collateral. Considering it would be your biggest bond offering to date (by quite a bit!), I'm not sure you have the proper perspective to be referring to that as a "humble" loan amount.
Fifth, and last, you play the old "considering the risk, I'll give X% interest" card, which is and has always been a gigantic red herring. How does the amount you promise to return on the loan have anything to do with helping me assess the risk of you running off with my investment? It never has and it never will. I could promise a 200% return on a loan, and it wouldn't have any bearing on whether anybody could trust me not to take the money and run.
That was an analysis of one, single paragraph in your proposal, and I easily came up with five very solid reasons to be skeptical of it. So go ahead, tell us we have no basis. It only makes you look less and less appealing to the people you're trying to scam. |
DJ Blackman
Often AFK
78
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Posted - 2012.01.01 17:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
well aren't these trolls trying hard. Is my thread that interesting? ^^
Mu-shi, I think you really need to re-examine your reasoning and understand the difference between 'convincing in your own head' and 'reality'. I typed out a response to your points which pointed out the presumptions and baseless assertions in your accusations, but the forum ate it =( so you can convo colonel vatutin if you wish for more. Unless, of course, you are not even willing to go that far to pursue 'legitimate' questions...
Remember, think about 'correct within my own line of thought' vs. 'what could be otherwise in reality' may offer a clue as to why your points are in fact very myopic. Convo colonel vatutin if you are this interested ^^
@Vaerah
Your offer is noted....though I may probably use more widely known services. Thank you for your offer.
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Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
55
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Oh, yes. I'm certain now that you're telling the truth. You definitely had a nice, long post written out which countered all of my perfectly legitimate points, but the forum ate it. Did your dog eat your homework a lot when you were in grade school as well?
Just one more reason to trust DJ Blackman, folks. |
DJ Blackman
Often AFK
78
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Posted - 2012.01.01 23:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Like I said, do convo me. I believe you will find that I am perfectly willing to answer ^^ I am not concerned with telling you things like that which may put me in a bad light - but you seem too lazy to even convo me now. If you don't even want to go that far, than there's little to trust your words or you on anything really..
it is also very interesting to note how trolls don't try to point out or make legitimate rebuttles against my posts other than 'lolololi don't trust you and no one should either because I am a useless cynic with unwarranted self-importance lolol'
Really, why are you not answering any of my points pointing out obvious questions about how you 'legitimately' accuse others but are not willing to go one step towards actually putting your money where your mouth is? |
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