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Nyx Nirvana
GozCorp
0
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Posted - 2017.04.04 09:52:06 -
[1] - Quote
Just asking for the future: I'm an alpha with a couple of PLEX waiting to be activated when I'm as trained as an alpha can go.
I'm mission running in highsec, and am looking for the higher missions (L3s/L4s) to be my main source of income for the future. Specifically, I want to try and get to L4s as quickly as possible. As a Caldari player, I want to keep down the Caldari ship route for the future. I've had varying responses as to which of these three is better. When I activate my PLEX, should I:
1) Start training into a Jackdaw (with decent backup skills): I've heard that they can run L3s pretty well, and can solo harder combat sites/escalations well too.
2) Start training into a Drake (with decent backup skills): Drakes appear to be the most solid and "safe" choice for L3s.
3) Start training as quickly as possible into a Raven (with meh backup skills): A friend of mine said that a low-skill Raven can run L3 missions, and as your skills get higher, you can jump to L4s without having to buy a new hull/fit (except upgrades to better modules).
4) Any other ship/skillplan
Would really appreciate it if someone can tell me the best route to train for. Thanks! |
Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
100
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Posted - 2017.04.04 13:14:18 -
[2] - Quote
4.
i would take a look at the tengu. over 1000 dps and a brick tank. then she is so flexible with the subsystems. |
Nyx Nirvana
GozCorp
0
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Posted - 2017.04.04 13:23:59 -
[3] - Quote
Ploing wrote:4.
i would take a look at the tengu. over 1000 dps and a brick tank. then she is so flexible with the subsystems.
The Tengu is a great ship I would like aim for eventually. It's just something I can't speed-train into from an alpha state |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
124
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Posted - 2017.04.04 13:25:19 -
[4] - Quote
A Jackdaw, Drake or Raven are all viable options with different advantages/disadvantages. The Drake and Raven are pretty versatile PvE ships and you can't go wrong with either. The Jackdaw is far less versatile for PvE but comes with the advantage of being a good PvP ship if you're ever so inclined. If it were me, I'd get the Drake and then move up to a Raven later.
I'll throw one more option out as well. If you want to delay going Omega a bit longer, you can run L3s in a Gnosis (a BC without skill requirements, so an alpha can fly it). |
Nyx Nirvana
GozCorp
0
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Posted - 2017.04.04 13:34:32 -
[5] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:A Jackdaw, Drake or Raven are all viable options with different advantages/disadvantages. The Drake and Raven are pretty versatile PvE ships and you can't go wrong with either. The Jackdaw is far less versatile for PvE but comes with the advantage of being a good PvP ship if you're ever so inclined. If it were me, I'd get the Drake and then move up to a Raven later.
I'll throw one more option out as well. If you want to delay going Omega a bit longer, you can run L3s in a Gnosis (a BC without skill requirements, so an alpha can fly it).
Gnosis is a nice idea, but it's pretty pricey at the moment. I might give it a try.
Do you know if a Raven can actually run L3s successfully, or otherwise?
Thanks for the help :)
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
458
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Posted - 2017.04.04 13:50:31 -
[6] - Quote
Nyx Nirvana wrote: 4) Any other ship/skillplan
IGÇÖm currently testing a Gila in L4 missions on a low SP alt and so far the results are great.
For the Gila you need to have Caldari and Gallente cruiser skills (I trained both to L5), missile skills, drone skills and support skills (powergrid, cpu, tank, etc.). Gallente cruiser is worth it and you need the other skills anyway.
Using an omni buffer tank, an AB, Rapid Lights with faction missiles and mission specific T2 medium drones, I come close to 90k EHP before overheat and 700dps while being cap stable and with most skills at 4 and only a few skills at 5. So far the tank is more than sufficient and the ship is actually fun to fly, even in missions.
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
101
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Posted - 2017.04.04 13:51:38 -
[7] - Quote
a raven can handle L3 easily. its not the fastest option but you dont look at that at the moment. |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
126
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Posted - 2017.04.04 14:00:41 -
[8] - Quote
Absolutely no reason a Raven can't do L3s - it's just not as optimal as something smaller like a Drake. Plus, I think the isk savings of having just one ship for L3s and L4s is a bit illusory. A Raven is much slower than a Drake and won't apply damage to the smaller ships in an L3 as well, thus reducing your isk/hr. You can also sell the Drake when you're done with L3s and apply that to an L4 missioning ship, so you lose very little. It also reduces your out of pocket expenses now.
That said, I don't want to talk you out of a Raven if that's what you want. It's a perfectly viable option. |
Nyx Nirvana
GozCorp
0
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Posted - 2017.04.04 14:44:19 -
[9] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Nyx Nirvana wrote: 4) Any other ship/skillplan
IGÇÖm currently testing a Gila in L4 missions on a low SP alt and so far the results are great. For the Gila you need to have Caldari and Gallente cruiser skills (I trained both to L5), missile skills, drone skills and support skills (powergrid, cpu, tank, etc.). Gallente cruiser is worth it and you need the other skills anyway. Using an omni buffer tank, an AB, Rapid Lights with faction missiles and mission specific T2 medium drones, I come close to 90k EHP before overheat and 700dps while being cap stable and with most skills at 4 and only a few skills at 5. So far the tank is more than sufficient and the ship is actually fun to fly, even in missions. That's something I didn't consider. I love the Gila as a ship (any Guristas ships to be honest), but I wasn't sure if I could train up to a high enough Gallente cruiser level quickly to use it properly.
I'll definitely take a look. Thanks! |
Nyx Nirvana
GozCorp
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 14:49:24 -
[10] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Absolutely no reason a Raven can't do L3s - it's just not as optimal as something smaller like a Drake. Plus, I think the isk savings of having just one ship for L3s and L4s is a bit illusory. A Raven is much slower than a Drake and won't apply damage to the smaller ships in an L3 as well, thus reducing your isk/hr. You can also sell the Drake when you're done with L3s and apply that to an L4 missioning ship, so you lose very little. It also reduces your out of pocket expenses now.
That said, I don't want to talk you out of a Raven if that's what you want. It's a perfectly viable option. That's a good point. I may head down the Drake route then, and move to a Raven shortly after once my skills are better.
Thanks for your help! |
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
125
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Posted - 2017.04.04 17:05:08 -
[11] - Quote
Nyx Nirvana wrote: That's something I didn't consider. I love the Gila as a ship (any Guristas ships to be honest), but I wasn't sure if I could train up to a high enough Gallente cruiser level quickly to use it properly.
I'll definitely take a look. Thanks!
Keep in mind that the rule of thumb with skilling in EVE is:
1) if you want to use a skill get it to 3 2) if you use a skill regularly get it to 4 3) if you can't think of something better to train get it to 5.
there are exceptions to (3), but your posting in this thread implies that you will wait until you have lvl 5 skills before you start doing something in EVE. This is a fantastic way to get bored and leave the game. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61044
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Posted - 2017.04.05 00:22:01 -
[12] - Quote
The basic rule for ship class verses mission levels :
Level 1 = Frigate, Destroyer Level 2 = Cruiser Level 3 = Battlecruiser Level 4 = Battleship Level 5 = Carrier, Fleet with logistics
Personally I like T3 Cruisers, they are very versatile and can fit a better defense than most other ships in their class and higher. They can put out enough DPS to take down most NPC's quickly and easily. Some NPC's may take a little bit of time but due to T3's defensive stats, they can stay engaged and wear down the defense of tough NPC's.
T3 Cruisers can be refit for numerous careers, everything from cloaky scout to exploration. The only drawback is they can't enter DED 3/10 and 4/10 exploration sites. The main problem with using T3 Cruiser in PvP is when it gets destroyed, you lose one level of a trained sub-system skill. However the saving grace of T3 Cruisers is the sub-system skills don't take very long to train up.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2750
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Posted - 2017.04.05 21:17:43 -
[13] - Quote
Raven is a fine lv3 ship, just requires some creative fitting. I will admit I haven't flown it in lv3s so there is plenty of room to play around with fittings.
lows, bcus are a pretty obvious choice, 3-4 are pretty standard, and I picked a nano for the extra speed and agility, could perhaps go 3 bcu 2 nano for a bit more speed
mids: some tank but don't need too much, overwhelming dps and bs ehp should be enough to tank almost all lv3s. cap booster to fuel the booster or mwd, MWD for the speed, sensor boosters are needed to speed up lock time, as BS have pretty bad scan res, and I wasn't sure what else to throw on so I added a missile guidance computer.
highs: rapid heavy launchers are great for dps on small stuff, sitting through the reload kinda sucks but even with the reload it will do more damage than a drake. Although with lv3s you usually don't have to destroy too much and can just blap the objective and complete the mission.
ammo choice, since it has been a while since I used heavies in lv3s I can't say exactly but play around with faction/t2 ammo. Fury is a nice damage boost, but faction should apply well and have more range.
drones: I like lights for the most part, the two sentry drones are nice to have as they are good at finishing things off or adding a bit more damage on your current target. but by no means are the sentries needed, another 2 flights of lights are what I often carry in ships with 75m3 drone bays.
[Raven, warp speed] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 500MN Microwarpdrive II Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Small Tractor Beam II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x2
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
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Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Razorback Roadhouse
97
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Posted - 2017.04.06 02:05:46 -
[14] - Quote
If the op really want to use the same ship for lv3s and lv4s, try a tengu or a gila. The bs are slow and always overtanked for the lv3s. |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
637
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Posted - 2017.04.06 04:06:25 -
[15] - Quote
Don't some L3s have a 'no battleship' gate restriction?
Id say go drake or a cruiser anyways, better application on the more numerous small targets
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
14
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Posted - 2017.04.07 19:13:25 -
[16] - Quote
Are you looking at what you can do once you've gone Omega, or at what you can do now as an Alpha? If the latter, I think you're looking at level 3 missions at best, and at, as someone upthread suggested, a Gnosis, which is the only BC you can fly. Another possibilty is a Navy cruiser (whichever one(s) are available to your race). Once you start doing that, you might look at what you need to train for ships not currently available to you. Most of the "mastery" skills for any subcapital (except large weapons) you should already have, but there may be some holes to fill in. Once you go Omega, of course, you can train whatever you need. Racial BC if you're still doing L3s, or Racial BS if you want to go to fours. Alternatives for 4s: T3 cruiser, HAC, Marauders. You can cross-train other racial ships, which will also give you faction ships, but that can take a while, particularly if you're not interested in actually flying the lower level ships, but just want to get to lvl 4s ASAP. As to which is "best", that's really a matter of personal preference. I've never had any problem sticking to the T1 progression Michael DeCrimson mentions above. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2762
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 20:31:07 -
[17] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Id say go drake or a cruiser anyways, better application on the more numerous small targets looks at rhml, looks at drake/crusier hulls uhh what?
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@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
638
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 02:16:21 -
[18] - Quote
I believe RLMLs on a gila do indeed have better application than RHMLs on a battleship... your point?
Also you didnt deal with the gate restriction issue...
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
140
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 16:17:52 -
[19] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Also you didnt deal with the gate restriction issue...
Not an issue. L3 gates allow everything up to T2 battleships. |
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Razorback Roadhouse
102
|
Posted - 2017.04.08 16:54:22 -
[20] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Also you didnt deal with the gate restriction issue... Not an issue. L3 gates allow everything up to T2 battleships.
confirmed, today I used a machariel to do a bunch of lv3 missions. All mission pockets allowed me in. |
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1220
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 14:41:04 -
[21] - Quote
For now the Genosis my be your best option, you get a very high level of versatility for minimal skill point investment which leaves more of your limited SP pool available for training support skills that you will need no matter what ship you fly.
Gila is a fun ship and level 4 capable but it has a very high entry point SP wise and it is not even close to the best option. If you are looking cruiser class ships the Ishtar can be a better option, what little it gives up to the Gila in some areas it more than makes up for with the larger drones bay and bonuses to all drones not just to the mediums. Perhaps the best reason to go Ishtar is sentry drones which the Gila cannot use effectively due to small drones bay and insufficient control band width.
Raven is a tried an true lower SP level 4 ship, however I always preferred the Navy variant it just fit me better than the standard version. Overall you cannot go wrong with either.
As you look long term towards level 4 missions as a source of ISK you have to decide if you are going to blitz, full clear loot / salvage or some combination. Good blitz ships like the Machariel are not very good at full clear, while the Marauders that are excellent at full clear and not very good for blitz.
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Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Razorback Roadhouse
107
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Posted - 2017.04.13 03:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Gila is a fun ship and level 4 capable but it has a very high entry point SP wise and it is not even close to the best option. If you are looking cruiser class ships the Ishtar can be a better option, what little it gives up to the Gila in some areas it more than makes up for with the larger drones bay and bonuses to all drones not just to the mediums. Perhaps the best reason to go Ishtar is sentry drones which the Gila cannot use effectively due to small drones bay and insufficient control band width.
Isn't Ishtar more SP-demanding than Gila? Besides the basic support skills, for Ishtar, you need Gallente Cruisers (where V is a must), Energy Grid Upgrades (V must), HACs, Light Drones Operation, Heavy Drones Operation/Sentry Drones Operation, totally 19x; for Gila, you need Caldari Cruisers, Light Drones Operation and Medium Drones Operation, totally 8x, or plus Light Missiles and Gallente Cruisers if you also want to use missiles, totally 14x. And you don't need sentry drones and range tank on a cruiser, because you can speed tank those battleships well. If you're using Ishtar in lv4s, heavy drones are better because of both better basic damage and better damage bonus. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
88
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 13:36:15 -
[23] - Quote
My advice... start with the drake. BC to IV from scratch should take you less than a week of training... that's a small enough detour as to not matter when you move away from the Drake to other things.
After that... train into T2 missiles and T2 small and medium drones (all racial drone specs to 3). Once you have those... switch to the Gila. It will complete missions much faster than your drake did... but the drone skills are needed. While level 5 for both cruiser skills (Caldari/Gallente) is nice... you will be fine with level 4 unless the Gila is something you want to specialize in.
But I wouldn't specialize... I'd train Cal and Gal BS to IV, Sentry and Heavy T2 drones and basic cruise missile skills... and switch to the Rattlesnake. The rattlesnake (with the right fittings) is capable of soloing 10/10 DED complexes... and even with sub-par fittings it can tear through L4 missions. I'd argue that should be your end-game.
The other way to go through it would be to go to Raven (and possibly Raven Navy Issue) then go to rattlesnake. But it's important to note that the drone skills are more important for RS damage than missile skills. It's probably easiest to come up through the gallente ship like.... Vexor then VNI or Myrmidon then Dominix then Rattlesnake. |
Nyx Nirvana
GozCorp
5
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 20:01:28 -
[24] - Quote
Alicia Dnari wrote:Are you looking at what you can do once you've gone Omega, or at what you can do now as an Alpha? If the latter, I think you're looking at level 3 missions at best, and at, as someone upthread suggested, a Gnosis, which is the only BC you can fly. Another possibilty is a Navy cruiser (whichever one(s) are available to your race). Once you start doing that, you might look at what you need to train for ships not currently available to you. Most of the "mastery" skills for any subcapital (except large weapons) you should already have, but there may be some holes to fill in. Once you go Omega, of course, you can train whatever you need. Racial BC if you're still doing L3s, or Racial BS if you want to go to fours. Alternatives for 4s: T3 cruiser, HAC, Marauders. You can cross-train other racial ships, which will also give you faction ships, but that can take a while, particularly if you're not interested in actually flying the lower level ships, but just want to get to lvl 4s ASAP. As to which is "best", that's really a matter of personal preference. I've never had any problem sticking to the T1 progression Michael DeCrimson mentions above. Looking at what I can do once I omega. Just wondering going from a fully trained alpha which ship I should aim to train initially |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2807
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 21:31:39 -
[25] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:I believe RLMLs on a gila do indeed have better application than RHMLs on a battleship... your point?
Also you didnt deal with the gate restriction issue... My point is that RHML on a raven will have the same application and higher dps than HML on a drake. Of course RLML are going to have better application
I've only seen one gate restriction and I think it was a frig/dessy only, you'd want a frig anyways as all you do is drop something off and warp out.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1221
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 14:48:49 -
[26] - Quote
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:Isn't Ishtar more SP-demanding than Gila? Besides the basic support skills, for Ishtar, you need Gallente Cruisers (where V is a must), Energy Grid Upgrades (V must), HACs, Light Drones Operation, Heavy Drones Operation/Sentry Drones Operation, totally 19x; for Gila, you need Caldari Cruisers, Light Drones Operation and Medium Drones Operation, totally 8x, or plus Light Missiles and Gallente Cruisers if you also want to use missiles, totally 14x. And you don't need sentry drones and range tank on a cruiser, because you can speed tank those battleships well. If you're using Ishtar in lv4s, heavy drones are better because of both better basic damage and better damage bonus. To maximize the Gila where a significant portion of it's damage comes from thermal or kinetic missiles Gallente cruiser 5 should be considered a requirement especially for level 4 missions. While the BS may not do much damage due to speed the frigates, destroyers and the cruisers in the pockets will take a serious toll on your tank so the resist bonus per level makes the Caldari skill a virtual requirement as well. Again because a significant portion of your damage comes from missiles training all applicable missile skills to level 5 adds a significant amount of time to training for the Gila. In the end, and considering starting from a brand new character the Ishtar and the Gila are remarkably close in training time requirements.
Looking at your list you have skills listed for the Ishtar that are not specifically needed. Both heavy and medium drone skills are entirely optional for a pilot using an Ishtar for any level of missions. Because nearly instant switching for range, damage type and damage mitigation sentry drones have more damage applied over time even though they have less paper damage than the heavies. And we have not started to talk about travel times that not only eliminate any paper DPS advantage the heavies may have but actually turn the equation in favor of the sentry drones. When it comes to smaller things what the Garde cannot handle because of tracking issues lights are generally a better option anyway so having medium drones is not required. In fact given many of the NPC proclivity for shooting drones I find a set of armor maintenance bots are a much better alternative than mediums allowing you to repair drones between pockets or groups more quickly and efficiently than using remote reps from your highs alone.
And that leads me to the final advantage the Ishtar has over the Gila. Since the Ishtar has no bonuses to a hull mounted weapons system flying one with no guns at all is a viable option which frees up high slots for whatever a pilot wants to use, with the Gila you loose to much of your damage to even consider not filling your highs with missile launchers.
In the end both ships are capable but neither one of them is even close to the "best" option for level 4 missions. They are more like I am bored let's try something that puts a little more challenge into these type of ships. |
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - ChickenSandwich Aporkalypse Now
113
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Posted - 2017.04.15 15:14:16 -
[27] - Quote
Did I list the Medium Drone Operation in the Ishtar's list? And I only count Heavy Drone Operation OR Sentry Drone Operation, or the Ishtar's total training multiplier would be 24x. You don't need Gallente Cruisers V and Caldari Cruisers V to sit in a gila or fly it effectively. Both at IV are ok. If you haven't trained any missile skills, then Gila would take a bit longer to train though. (I assumed you have trained all the support skills in my former post.) I still think heavies are better for Ishtar. If you use sentry drones, you must sit there or your drones may die even faster than the heavy drones. If you sit there still, you can't speed tank those battleships, and then your tank may not be enough. If you want to range tank with sentries, then you should consider use Eos or Dominix, because Ishtar cannot use MJD (and those 2 ships have double bonus to sentry drones' damage). Ishtar have a good bonus to heavy drones' speed, and if you think they're still too slow, use geckos. For challenges, I often use a VNI for some lv4 missions, and it works pretty well :D |
Orin Solette
The Scope Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2017.04.15 18:21:29 -
[28] - Quote
L3 missions are ridiculously short. You should take a ship that warps around quickly because that will take as much time as it will to kill any rats at the sites. And something else to do on the side because some missions will have you wait around for spawns. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2813
|
Posted - 2017.04.16 17:35:29 -
[29] - Quote
Orin Solette wrote:L3 missions are ridiculously short. You should take a ship that warps around quickly because that will take as much time as it will to kill any rats at the sites. And something else to do on the side because some missions will have you wait around for spawns. quick warps and good damage application at various ranges, which is why warp speed t3cs and machs are the best
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Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2017.04.17 10:20:58 -
[30] - Quote
A plus vote for the Gila, very effective at l3 missions, focus on the scrambling webbing ships first and then go to town. Rlml tear through those. T1 missiles and T1 missile launchers with gallente4 is quite sufficient if your drone skills for mediums are decent but caldari5 and T2 purgers are highly recommended. It is also able to work with blitzing L4 missions as well if one is very alert, but not ideal for that role. A tengu is a significantly better choice.
For L3 I actually prefer my max skilled Gila to a max skill machariel, or tengu. It is not so efficient, but everyone has there own preferences.
Edit, If you can afford a gila, why bother with a drake? |
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