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Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group
Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.05.09 23:49:00 -
[31]
Heavy Assault missiles don't sell well anyway, and ppl are still skilling up for the stuff. Still, point taken, no denying that there are some T2 bpo's that are crap (e.g. the ones with same stats as best named, but worse fittings (surely it should the the other way around?))
As I said before, the usage of the T2 weapons/ammo and the production levels need to climb in conjunction with each other for it to work
Khaldari
Research Services
KPA Recruiting! |
Arric Rohr
The Knights Templar
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.12 22:23:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Spoon Thumb
I think there are many people who might come to the game like I did wanting to be industrial players / crafters and might be discouraged by T1, the entry level for manufacturers, being utterly saturated and devoid of profit.
Loot is the problem.
Everyone gets all the T1 stuff they'll ever need from loot.
This may not relate to the beginning player, but I've found that since drops in 0.0 are dependent on the type of rats, many t1 products sell quite well. For example, in a Gurista area, you can sell armor reppers, blasters, lasers, projectile weapons--in short, all the things that don't drop off of Caldari equipped npc's. Same goes for missile weapons and shield mods in Serpentis space.
AR
*Where do I get one of those cool signatures?* |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.05.14 00:53:00 -
[33]
It is possible to make a fortune off of T1 goods if you apply a little brainpower.
True, the market hubs are pretty much saturated... it's a player driven market and players will fill it until the profits are quite low no matter what CCP do. Traders will always shuffle items around and fill most of the gaps. Nature abhors a vacuum and so does EvE's market.
However there are still many less popular mission hubs that aren't stocked with most common mission runner consumables, there are 0.0 access points that are similarly unstocked, and there's 0.0 itself where a small fortune can be made selling goods at up to a 300% markup.
T2 and T3 will be no different, so long as the ability to produce these goods is potentially possible for everyone profits will remain low, suplly will always grow to meet demand. This is good, it's how it should be. What isn't available to everyone is the intellect to make the most of EvE's complexity and make serious ammounts of ISK.
Readers Digest version: EvE is not Jita
As for drone and ammo production, as has been mentioned there is a lot to be said for being able to produce "on site" be that for sale or personal/corp/alliance use and as always... if you can't make a profit out of it don't do it.
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Dyeadmheet
Caldari
Khanid Aerospace Group
Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.05.15 01:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Traders will always shuffle items around and fill most of the gaps. Nature abhors a vacuum and so does EvE's market.
There are always inefficiencies in any market and that's where the profits are to be made.
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
T2 and T3 will be no different, so long as the ability to produce these goods is potentially possible for everyone profits will remain low, suplly will always grow to meet demand.
Yea, but invention is complicated. So just like the insurance business or other businesses there's money to be made in creating a better cost model than your competitors, and better tools to figure out where the inefficiencies are at any given moment.
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:17:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 15/05/2007 23:15:39
Originally by: Dyeadmheet
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Traders will always shuffle items around and fill most of the gaps. Nature abhors a vacuum and so does EvE's market.
There are always inefficiencies in any market and that's where the profits are to be made.
That is what I said yes. I even gave examples. 
Originally by: Dyeadmheet
Yea, but invention is complicated. So just like the insurance business or other businesses there's money to be made in creating a better cost model than your competitors, and better tools to figure out where the inefficiencies are at any given moment.
Again pretty much what I said when I stated, "What isn't available to everyone is the intellect to make the most of EvE's complexity and make serious ammounts of ISK."
Sometimes I swear people somehow only read the sentence they quote on these forums. 
[EDIT: Spelink]
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Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.05.17 01:54:00 -
[36]
The thing that makes invention hard to profit from is the uncertainty, you think you have figured out approxiamte cost based on an avaerage success ratio, and then you hit an unlucky spell and invention drains your vallet dry.
Try being unlucky with Hulks and HACs for a while.
30 unsuccessful attempts in a row = 1,2bil down the drain
Need luck to catch up and make profit after a spell like that.
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of 674 of the 730 seeded T1 BPOs: Ships, modules, rigs, drones, ammo, probes, components and capital mods, drones & ammo. (Cap Ships, Cap Components and Outposts 2007/2008) |
Dominique Vasilkovsky
Techmart Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.17 14:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Aykido
The thing that makes invention hard to profit from is the uncertainty, you think you have figured out approxiamte cost based on an avaerage success ratio, and then you hit an unlucky spell and invention drains your vallet dry.
HAC/Hulk invention is a high risk/high reward gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
You really need to make a lot of inventions before you can make a baseline to base profit/margins on. Unfortunately it can be quite costly to find that information by trial and error.
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jkl301
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Posted - 2007.05.20 11:09:00 -
[38]
I have taken a closer look at Dominiques Hammerhead calculation (the first post)
9 jobs gave him 5x10run Hammerhead II BPCs
With todays Jita prices (20-05-2007 10:00) the cost per job was
2 x Datacore Electronic Engineering = 2 x 345K
2 x Datacore Mechanical Engineering = 2 x 2.69M
Total cost per job = 6.07M
Total cost for all 9 jobs = 54.63M
Producing the 50 hammerheads will cost approx 4M in materials.
That gives a total cost per drone = 1.17M.
This cost is below Jita price (1.214M) and certainly below all other regions where they often sell at 1.3-1.4. So the statement in the first post that Hammerhead II drones in Jita are 200K cheaper than when made by invention is not correct. At least not anymore.
Also take into consideration that the cost of datacores will drop and therefore will make drone invention more and more profitable.
On the other hand removing the mechanical datacores will remove 89% of the invention cost and will send T2 drone prices out in vertical fall. I suggest keeping the mechanical datacores for drones or at least replace it with another type of datacore so that there is a reasonable cost of invention as there are with modules and ships. Alternative reduce the number of runs to 2-4 per BPC.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
Techmart Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.20 19:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: jkl301
This cost is below Jita price (1.214M) and certainly below all other regions where they often sell at 1.3-1.4. So the statement in the first post that Hammerhead II drones in Jita are 200K cheaper than when made by invention is not correct. At least not anymore.
That is correct, the Mech Eng Cores were just below 5M when I started this topic.
Signature approved by Eldo |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.05.21 13:44:00 -
[40]
Just to update, the mech. engineering datacore requirement will stay but the exact requirements may be tweaked before we arrive at the release candidate on sisi. What we are hoping to do is help ease the supply issues a little by increasing the number of agents that offer the mech. engineering field so you will not be restricted to the handful there are currently on TQ so at least you will have some choice of faction & location in kali 2 with datacore supply.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
Techmart Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.22 12:17:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Just to update, the mech. engineering datacore requirement will stay but the exact requirements may be tweaked before we arrive at the release candidate on sisi.
With cheap enough cores that would work as well I guess.
Have you looked into the interface requirements for ammo yet? More specifically missiles vs drones. Last time I managed to log in to SiSi each missile used the racial interface based on damage (as in EM missiles using Amarr interface snd so on) however all drones used the Gallente interface regardless of damage type.
Signature approved by Eldo |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.05.22 14:20:00 -
[42]
My guess would be that the need for the Incognito interface for drone invention is there to offset the fact that it has almost no other meaningful item that it can invent.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.05.22 18:36:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
My guess would be that the need for the Incognito interface for drone invention is there to offset the fact that it has almost no other meaningful item that it can invent.
that is correct, drones are very much a Gallente thing so its only sensible that you require the Gallente technology to research them and yes also the Gallente group is quite low compared to others. In contrast missiles although used primarily by the Caldari and Guristas, are sourced from all of the races <insert more fictional backstory here>
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Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2007.05.22 21:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
My guess would be that the need for the Incognito interface for drone invention is there to offset the fact that it has almost no other meaningful item that it can invent.
that is correct, drones are very much a Gallente thing so its only sensible that you require the Gallente technology to research them and yes also the Gallente group is quite low compared to others. In contrast missiles although used primarily by the Caldari and Guristas, are sourced from all of the races <insert more fictional backstory here>
Then, why do we need to train Racial drone skills to use the various T2 variants???
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Khan Dhu
Khan Dhu Research and Cloning
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Posted - 2007.05.22 22:22:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Khan Dhu on 22/05/2007 22:20:23
I think the answer that's on everyone's lips is:
"Because besides inventing Hulks, Gallente Encryption Methods is a pretty worthless skill to have right now."
Only reason I've got it is to invent T2 Domi and Mega BPCs when they become available.
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Meha Mott
Minmatar
Carebear Research and Produktion Agency
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Posted - 2007.05.23 00:08:00 -
[46]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Just to update, the mech. engineering datacore requirement will stay but the exact requirements may be tweaked before we arrive at the release candidate on sisi. What we are hoping to do is help ease the supply issues a little by increasing the number of agents that offer the mech. engineering field so you will not be restricted to the handful there are currently on TQ so at least you will have some choice of faction & location in kali 2 with datacore supply.
Thats realy nice, and good news for Caldari online, but would you also be so kind, to look for the problem in nanite eng, quantum physics and molecular eng for Minmatar and Galente ?
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Dyeadmheet
Caldari
Khanid Aerospace Group
Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.05.23 06:44:00 -
[47]
Thanks for the update Chronotis.
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