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Xzanos Fools Resurrection 2	Posted - 2017.04.14 20:27:20 - [1] - Quote I have been playing Eve for 13 yeas... I have seen the different ships of eve rise and fall in all of the different metas of the game. But there has always been something that bothers me, why does CCP make it such a point that Amarr is the superior race too the other 3? Amarr serves a larger role in the emerging storyline, Amarr tournament, Amarr jokes during fanfest and many other things just cement Amarr into this Alpha race position. I believe that this is a big issue that could be keeping players away from the game or turning people away after trying the game out. On the one hand you have players who only have fun winning who will research the game before playing, find info on the different ships and meta's and choose which race they think will give them the biggest advantage/ easy win button. With the introduction of Alpha Clones this will lead more and more people to choose a specific race based on "meta gaming". On the other hand you have players who play the game more for its immersion factor and RP of joining a corporation/ fighting for ideals. These players may begin to realize that the race they chose will make their gameplay experience "harder" and sometimes seemingly completely unfair. Again with the introduction of Alpha Clones this may turn players away from the game when they realize that playing the race that they like, is not the best choice. I completely realize that Eve by its nature is not FAIR, however I do believe that there should be more balance between races. I'm sure if you asked any veteran player and even some more skilled new players about the state of balance between races in many of the ship classes is completely broken in 75% of the cases. I also understand that you can cross train for any race/ship you want, but this is not the case for Alpha Clones and even for Omega characters I do not think that cross training should be a "requirement" which is basically where the game stands now. Please if you agree with any part of this post and believe that there should be better balance between races post a reply. I have been wishing to see balance changes in this area for many years now. I understand that each race and ship has its own "role" that it is balanced around but I also feel like each one of these "roles" should be viable in a combat situation against ships of the same class.
Cristl 600	Posted - 2017.04.14 20:40:54 - [2] - Quote I'd say that balance is pretty good right now, and that the flavour of the month rotation prevents one race dominating for too long. There are obvious candidates for review (eg. buffs for Belicose, Corax, a medium projectile pass) but it's better than it's been in a while. I'm leaving capitals out as your post seems based around alphas. I would move specialist haulers to ORE though, and race-independent stuff like webbing drones obviously needs a complete overhaul.
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 2	Posted - 2017.04.14 20:49:36 - [3] - Quote Cristl wrote: I'd say that balance is pretty good right now, and that the flavour of the month rotation prevents one race dominating for too long. There are obvious candidates for review (eg. buffs for Belicose, Corax, a medium projectile pass) but it's better than it's been in a while. I'm leaving capitals out as your post seems based around alphas. I would move specialist haulers to ORE though, and race-independent stuff like webbing drones obviously needs a complete overhaul. Thank you for your reply and not posting with a flamethrower. I agree with a medium projectile change and imo change to projectiles as a whole could fix many of the issues as i feel Minmatar ships have the most black sheep of any race.
Vipsan Agrippa Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 135	Posted - 2017.04.14 21:09:21 - [4] - Quote Caldari have always been the superior business race. However, the Tornado is the greatest HiSec ganking ship created. A small fleet can one shot a Marauder before he even turns on his shields. Who would have thought former slaves could have produced such a marvel?
March rabbit Mosquito squadron The-Culture 2139	Posted - 2017.04.14 21:41:06 - [5] - Quote I don't see so much superiority of Amarr ships in pvp. Storyline they are the biggest and mightiest of empires so i'm ok with than. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Teros Hakomairos Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 21	Posted - 2017.04.14 22:53:58 - [6] - Quote Simply stop pvp and you have no problems with uber amarr ships..... PVP is just waste of resources :-)
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 1193	Posted - 2017.04.15 00:02:00 - [7] - Quote Teros Hakomairos wrote: Simply stop pvp and you have no problems with uber amarr ships..... PVP is just waste of resources :-) I'd say it's pretty damn critical that PvP exist in Eve. "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Cristl 600	Posted - 2017.04.15 00:14:54 - [8] - Quote Sobaan Tali wrote: Teros Hakomairos wrote: Simply stop pvp and you have no problems with uber amarr ships..... PVP is just waste of resources :-) I'd say it's pretty damn critical that PvP exist in Eve. I feel you may have missed some irony here
Vortexo VonBrenner Tadakastu-Obata Corporation 2794	Posted - 2017.04.15 00:18:57 - [9] - Quote Another heretic vomits forth slander. It's all part of the slightly-tongue-in-cheek overall grimness EvE is going for friend. EvE security zones in pictures EvE quick reference pdf EvE links
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 61491	Posted - 2017.04.15 02:27:50 - [10] - Quote Yeah I agree with the OP, the 4 main Factions could be balanced more equally, especially pertaining to Alpha Clone status. However when I first joined over 8 years ago I picked Minmatar because it was the hardest Faction to skill up due to being so versatile in ship fitting. I had decided back then that I would be playing this game for a long time so it didn't bother me that my character would take longer to develop. In fact I even trained up all of the Learning skills because of that. I think it all depends on each person's viewpoint of how they're going to play this game. I'm in it for the long term, not for the short haul and as such I'd still make the same decision to play Minmatar even if I had just started playing today. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
March rabbit Mosquito squadron The-Culture 2140	Posted - 2017.04.15 07:32:59 - [11] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I think it all depends on each person's viewpoint of how they're going to play this game. I'm in it for the long term, not for the short haul ... DMC It looks like new players are mostly from other side of spectre tho.... Which is sad The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Matthias Ancaladron Wrath of Angels Solitaire. 272	Posted - 2017.04.15 08:18:03 - [12] - Quote Amarr have the least amount of skills for alphas. Something like 8-9 overall levels less than minmatar or the others. If anything they need to toss some more levels toward amarr and let them get another capacitor recharge level, advanced weapon upgrades or armor layering. No reason the races should have different level totals once fully trained in alpha skills. Amarr are the blessed superior race so we should have great skills, the best skills, so many skills we get sick of training. The rust weasels deserve to wallow in skill poverty and filth.
Another Posting Alt Zerious Fricken Biziness 245	Posted - 2017.04.15 08:47:40 - [13] - Quote Teros Hakomairos wrote: Fun is just waste of resources :-)
Aves Asio 64	Posted - 2017.04.15 10:46:49 - [14] - Quote ccp was lazy when they established the alpha restrictions, to do it properly would require a full rebalance of skill requirements on all ships and modules
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 31395	Posted - 2017.04.15 11:04:47 - [15] - Quote I never thought Amarr victor more than Caldari master race and Gallente pleasure hubs. Minmatar? In rust they trust. Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him Osprey =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
oiukhp Muvila School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 157	Posted - 2017.04.15 12:42:25 - [16] - Quote I must admit its been several months since I've played, but only one of six main doctrines were Amarr based for the last group I was in. To be honest, all races were pretty well represented in the doctrines, except maybe Caldari. Edi: Yeah, I don't know about the alpha clone thing. I imagine Caldari is still better for missions though, even as an Alpha.
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 2808	Posted - 2017.04.15 17:27:12 - [17] - Quote oiukhp Muvila wrote: Edi: Yeah, I don't know about the alpha clone thing. I imagine Caldari is still better for missions though, even as an Alpha. I'd say gallente or amarr. the gun + drone combo on a gnosis can't be beat. the caldari rail gnosis is a bit behind the gallente, and well minmatar gnosis is just lol. I feel bad for minmatar alphas. selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141 @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 2808	Posted - 2017.04.15 17:29:02 - [18] - Quote Sobaan Tali wrote: Teros Hakomairos wrote: Simply stop pvp and you have no problems with uber amarr ships..... PVP is just waste of resources :-) I'd say it's pretty damn critical that PvP exist in Eve. nah, lets all just be space friends and have super dank wallets! selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141 @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 4	Posted - 2017.04.15 17:36:24 - [19] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Yeah I agree with the OP, the 4 main Factions could be balanced more equally, especially pertaining to Alpha Clone status. DMC I feel like it is hard for the majority of players to see the issues with racial balance because most players start to cross train very early on. My skill base is 100% Minmatar and i feel like i can only viably use 10% of the ships available to me.
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 5	Posted - 2017.04.15 17:40:27 - [20] - Quote Vortexo VonBrenner wrote: Another heretic vomits forth slander. It's all part of the slightly-tongue-in-cheek overall grimness EvE is going for friend. Im all for grimness, but that is no reason for favoritism. I mean i wont even bring up mordus legion.. or pirate faction ships in general. lets introduce a new pirate line of ships.. oh yeah and lets make it completely op and broken to shake things up and cause the most controversy as possible.
Victoria Oswald Foster Industries LLC. 1	Posted - 2017.04.15 17:46:21 - [21] - Quote I am unable to state my own opinion here, since I am a new player in the EVE universe. However this got me: Xzanos wrote: On the other hand you have players who play the game more for its immersion factor and RP of joining a corporation/ fighting for ideals. I was looking for a corp that supports these factors for months. Since I read the first book and decided to play eve I was all about some RP/Story related stuff, but all I found was people cross-using ships and randomly shooting each other, buying expensive goods, create fits for hours and die within minutes again. So are you just lying to me, or did I just have bad luck?
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 644	Posted - 2017.04.15 18:00:56 - [22] - Quote I think Amarr is with it's religious Cults, the Fanatics and intern struggles between the Royal familys lorewise the most interresting of all the empires. The "medieval" way of thinking and the unique style of their Ships (For example the goldplates as symbol for the imperial might) is simply the most interresting if you are a storywriter or like roleplay. The other empires are a bit dull in comparison. Playing a fanatic zealot makes just more fun then the stingy Caldari Accountant or the Gallentean Democrat. They also make good villains. And if you run out of arguments in a discussion, you just scream "heretic! traitor! hedon! burn him!" till the other shuts up. You know, pretty much like today's politics works
Avaelica Kuershin Paper Cats 346	Posted - 2017.04.15 20:15:34 - [23] - Quote Rovinia wrote: I think Amarr is with it's religious Cults, the Fanatics and intern struggles between the Royal familys lorewise the most interresting of all the empires. Their "medieval" way of thinking and the unique style of their Ships (For example the goldplates as symbol for the imperial might) is simply the most interresting if you are a storywriter or like roleplay. The other empires are a bit dull in comparison. Playing a fanatic zealot makes just more fun then the stingy Caldari Accountant or the Gallentean Democrat. They also make good villains. The other empires are less ostentatious to be sure, but I find both the Caldari and Minmatar interesting in their own ways. As for the Gallente, their hedonism is widely remarked on.
Lothros Andastar Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 233	Posted - 2017.04.15 20:43:38 - [24] - Quote There are more Amarr than there are Minmatar, Gallente and Caldari combined. Probably Jove too if the rumours of them all dying are to be believed.
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 2142	Posted - 2017.04.15 20:47:16 - [25] - Quote Victoria Oswald wrote: I am unable to state my own opinion here, since I am a new player in the EVE universe. However this got me: Xzanos wrote: On the other hand you have players who play the game more for its immersion factor and RP of joining a corporation/ fighting for ideals. I was looking for a corp that supports these factors for months. Since I read the first book and decided to play eve I was all about some RP/Story related stuff, but all I found was people cross-using ships and randomly shooting each other, buying expensive goods, create fits for hours and die within minutes again. So are you just lying to me, or did I just have bad luck? There is subforum "Interstellar Summit" (click here) where people discussing lore and events very heavily. You could look there and try to contact some of those? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Alaric Faelen Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes 467	Posted - 2017.04.15 23:34:22 - [26] - Quote Well I only have 6 years as opposed to 13, but I haven't seen much in the way of ship superiority that isn't just FOTM. The NaPoc replaced the Megathron before they were all replaced with Dominix fleets at one point. How long ago was it that Drakes ruled the skies? There is serious powercreep in Eve right now, and that really favors the Pirate or Navy hulls over even the glut of T2's in the game. As for lore- the Amarr have the most obvious and relate-able one. It's easy to RP as a caricature of how most people actually are. There was a live event based around the Caldari-Gallente conflict (it didn't go over very well). Lately it's been Amarr, but hey- I am all for CCP actually closing out a story line for once. Way too much of Eve's content feels half done. CCP hauls out a piece of lore to explain some new feature, but then promptly abandons it in the next release. Epic Arcs, COSMOS missions, even Incursions feel like content that was meant for iteration, but never received it. Next big new feature maybe they will use another race.
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 5	Posted - 2017.04.16 06:36:35 - [27] - Quote Alaric Faelen wrote: Well I only have 6 years as opposed to 13, but I haven't seen much in the way of ship superiority that isn't Lately it's been Amarr, but hey- I am all for CCP actually closing out a story line for once. Way too much of Eve's content feels half done. CCP hauls out a piece of lore to explain some new feature, but then promptly abandons it in the next release. Epic Arcs, COSMOS missions, even Incursions feel like content that was meant for iteration, but never received it. Next big new feature maybe they will use another race. I agree with the first part, but gods please no not another race...
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Lost Obsession 1657	Posted - 2017.04.16 06:44:24 - [28] - Quote Amarr victor. Deal with it Caldari Scum. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
Alasdan Helminthauge HC - Shinra Industry 116	Posted - 2017.04.16 11:37:09 - [29] - Quote Matthias Ancaladron wrote: Amarr have the least amount of skills for alphas. Something like 8-9 overall levels less than minmatar or the others. If anything they need to toss some more levels toward amarr and let them get another capacitor recharge level, advanced weapon upgrades or armor layering. No reason the races should have different level totals once fully trained in alpha skills. Amarr are the blessed superior race so we should have great skills, the best skills, so many skills we get sick of training. The rust weasels deserve to wallow in skill poverty and filth. I'm always wondering that why alphas of every race can train electronic warfare and weapon disrupting to III (while gallente alphas can only train sensor linking I and minmatar target painting I)? Shouldn't it be like Amarr weapon disrupting III, Caldari electronic warfare III, Gallente sensor linking III and Minmatar target painting III?
Hir Miriel Elves In Space 362	Posted - 2017.04.17 16:08:06 - [30] - Quote We Amarricans will always dominate. In God We Trust. Unlike some forum bound paganistic maladroits ~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Yarosara Ruil Haighare Pirates 969	Posted - 2017.04.17 16:40:55 - [31] - Quote Guristas ships are the superior ships, I don't know what the OP is talking about.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 31814	Posted - 2017.04.17 16:51:05 - [32] - Quote Hir Miriel wrote: We Amarricans will always dominate. In God We Trust. Unlike some forum bound paganistic maladroits I would rather have a thin layer of rust holding everything together. Imagination can get you so far as how much duct tape is left. The rest is inevitable and doesnt need any prayers to happen. Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him Osprey =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Alessienne Ellecon Solitude Rangers 95	Posted - 2017.04.18 09:27:52 - [33] - Quote Avaelica Kuershin wrote: Rovinia wrote: I think Amarr is with it's religious Cults, the Fanatics and intern struggles between the Royal familys lorewise the most interresting of all the empires. Their "medieval" way of thinking and the unique style of their Ships (For example the goldplates as symbol for the imperial might) is simply the most interresting if you are a storywriter or like roleplay. The other empires are a bit dull in comparison. Playing a fanatic zealot makes just more fun then the stingy Caldari Accountant or the Gallentean Democrat. They also make good villains. The other empires are less ostentatious to be sure, but I find both the Caldari and Minmatar interesting in their own ways. As for the Gallente, their hedonism is widely remarked on. We're damn proud of our hedonism, thank you very much. The Amarr have fascinating lore, to be sure, but belonging to a race of sex-crazed, alcoholic party animals is more fun. Plus we don't have to put up with jokes about our ships. Now where did I put my camo print c-string...?
Chopper Rollins Far Beyond Triggered 1841	Posted - 2017.04.18 10:08:11 - [34] - Quote Train all races to BS to V, fly all the things. This will allow you to either ignore the lore or see how nearly all the RP in EvE is a bad mess of generalizations acted out by nerds who try for gravitas but achieve lugubrious tedium by talking as if the sticks up their asses have sticks up their asses. Saying all (nationality) are (personality trait) is dumb, but when you apply that to the bajillions of people living on thousands of planets you're just being damn lazy. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 31831	Posted - 2017.04.18 11:12:15 - [35] - Quote Game has to be different than real life on some level, but also be believable enough to have sense, in this case empires had a long time when they were building their cultures in isolation, so it isnt really generalization when its cultural thing and people are really different. Then the cultures clash. Differences clash. Mindsets clash. This is why we have racism, slaves, wars and pirates in EVE. Too much tensions. Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him Osprey =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Netan MalDoran Planet Squanch 282	Posted - 2017.04.18 15:27:33 - [36] - Quote #CALDARIMASTERRACE :P "Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was! Falcon's truth
Tanuki Kittybeta Ripperoni in Pepperoni Trigger Warnings 129	Posted - 2017.04.18 16:55:03 - [37] - Quote pls friends dont forget that friendship is best ship
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 9	Posted - 2017.04.18 22:00:06 - [38] - Quote Tanuki Kittybeta wrote: pls friends dont forget that friendship is best ship Make sure they are flying Amarr/Gallente or they are bads...
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 9	Posted - 2017.04.18 22:03:35 - [39] - Quote Chopper Rollins wrote: Train all races to BS to V, fly all the things. You mean fly what hard counters your opponent instead of having a more all around balanced game?
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 9	Posted - 2017.04.18 22:04:52 - [40] - Quote Yarosara Ruil wrote: Guristas ships are the superior ships, I don't know what the OP is talking about. Trying not to bring pirate faction ships into the mix because there is even more of a balance issue there
Ioci Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums 618	Posted - 2017.04.18 22:24:12 - [41] - Quote I've said for years, Amarr has the upper hand in large scale engagement that will require large scale coordination as the price you pay but truth be told, Gallente can challenge Amarr if they nut up and blaster fit. I'm mostly seeing this from an Alpha clone slug fest Thorax fleets against Maller fleets, the wreckage will mount on both sides. R.I.P. Vile Rat
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 9	Posted - 2017.04.18 22:29:19 - [42] - Quote Victoria Oswald wrote: I am unable to state my own opinion here, since I am a new player in the EVE universe. However this got me: Xzanos wrote: On the other hand you have players who play the game more for its immersion factor and RP of joining a corporation/ fighting for ideals. I was looking for a corp that supports these factors for months. Since I read the first book and decided to play eve I was all about some RP/Story related stuff, but all I found was people cross-using ships and randomly shooting each other, buying expensive goods, create fits for hours and die within minutes again. So are you just lying to me, or did I just have bad luck? It is pretty hard to find a good RP corp that is also decent at pvp. mostly i find this is due to such horrid balance between races. Its hard to fly a racial specific fleet which is all i have ever wanted to do.
Xzanos Fools Resurrection 9	Posted - 2017.04.18 22:34:21 - [43] - Quote Ioci wrote: I've said for years, Amarr has the upper hand in large scale engagement that will require large scale coordination as the price you pay but truth be told, Gallente can challenge Amarr if they nut up and blaster fit. I'm mostly seeing this from an Alpha clone slug fest Thorax fleets against Maller fleets, the wreckage will mount on both sides. It should take the same amount of coordination and skill to fly any doctrine. What ever is "easy" usually ends up being the most overpowered because its very easy to learn and teach those fleet tactics to a larger number of players. Im glad that someone else has noticed though. On your second point... try a fleet of Ruptures against the ships you just named. There will be just as much wreckage just not on both sides.
Kazuma Ry Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 40	Posted - 2017.04.18 22:58:11 - [44] - Quote When I first started playing, Amarr ships were in general the hardest to fly, just in terms of training needed. Since the weapons that you got bonus's for were/are so Cap dependant, you had to find that fine line on whether you wanted a active or passive tank. Then if you got in a fight with some one with a Neut / Nosf, then you would see your cap disappear, and your lasers/beams shut down.
Vipsan Agrippa Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 143	Posted - 2017.04.18 23:40:26 - [45] - Quote Victoria Oswald wrote: I am unable to state my own opinion here, since I am a new player in the EVE universe. However this got me: Xzanos wrote: On the other hand you have players who play the game more for its immersion factor and RP of joining a corporation/ fighting for ideals. I was looking for a corp that supports these factors for months. Since I read the first book and decided to play eve I was all about some RP/Story related stuff, but all I found was people cross-using ships and randomly shooting each other, buying expensive goods, create fits for hours and die within minutes again. So are you just lying to me, or did I just have bad luck? Mail Diana Kim, he is the Best Pvp RP pilot in all of Eve, lucky for you he is Caldari. He NEVER breaks character ( except to stand up to peee ). Seriously hard-core RPer. Read his RP posts trolling Gallente types daily. Forum - Intergalactic Summit.
Magnus Jax 3	Posted - 2017.04.18 23:41:35 - [46] - Quote Amarr is pretty much EVE on hard mode: a ***** to fit VERY cap dependant not very versatile limited damage types meaning limited PVE (location wise) generally sluggish ships one of their npc factions is easily the most deadly of the "normal" factions. TD, web AND neuting With that said I'd say that T1 frigate and cruiser balance is quite ok these days although not every faction has a similar ship role or strategy that compares to the other factions. This is not a bad thing, otherwise racial ships (just as character race these days) would be meaningless. For having played for 13 years the OP hasn't really learned much on the game to be honest.
Chopper Rollins Far Beyond Triggered 1842	Posted - 2017.04.19 02:07:24 - [47] - Quote Xzanos wrote: Chopper Rollins wrote: Train all races to BS to V, fly all the things. You mean fly what hard counters your opponent instead of having a more all around balanced game? I mean "Train all races to BS to V" so you can fly anything, also unlocking shield and armor caps and all weapon systems. You're a capsuleer first and can transcend hisec sectarian shenanigans. Just flying your own race is going to be fail, even for Winmatar. Don't blame that on game balance, it's always going to be a fail decision. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Alessienne Ellecon Solitude Rangers 102	Posted - 2017.04.20 09:28:23 - [48] - Quote Ioci wrote: I've said for years, Amarr has the upper hand in large scale engagement that will require large scale coordination as the price you pay but truth be told, Gallente can challenge Amarr if they nut up and blaster fit. I'm mostly seeing this from an Alpha clone slug fest Thorax fleets against Maller fleets, the wreckage will mount on both sides. I ALWAYS fit blasters when I fly Gallente. Blaster Thorax and blaster Talos with antimatter can pack a mighty wallop; all you need are the right mods/rigs to extend the falloff so you have better range. If Caldari nincompoops focussed less on missiles and more on hybrid damage there would actually be something to their CALDARI SUPREMACY tripe. But nooo, they insist on rails for their turret slots. Morons.

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