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Mary CarryAlot	Posted - 2007.05.08 09:19:00 - [1] Oki so Im lying in bed thinking how Eve could be improved even more so when it comes to me. Player Owned Structures - How many times have you seen abandoned POS's, Offline POS's or simply just placeholder POS's with no fuel in hostile or just random systems and thought: 1) Thats an exploit as POS's aren't meant to sit there offline - they are meant to serve a purpose and be fuelled regularly 2) Thats just cluttering up space and stopping other people that want to place a pos doing so. So how can we combat this? Well this next paragraph will tell you and also help you to use certain skills in the game more effectivley. POS Hacking/Jacking POS hacking is the ability to hack an OFFLINE anchored pos to reprogram its internal computer to beleive you are the rightful owner. POS hacking requires the following skills: Hacking V POS Hacking x (Higher the level = increased chances). Hacking a POS isn't simple, it will be based similarly to hacking now when you will have a certain 'chance' to hack the POS. Obviously the higher the skill, the higher the chance but to hack a large tower could take over 10-15 minutes (or longer). In summary - This enhancement would stop space litter, give a goal to 'big salvage professions), stop people simply placing placeholder pos's at moons to stop people gaining sovreignty. Lets make people WORK to hold their systems - with great risk comes reward. Your Comments Please Mary
Pablo Free M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.08 13:08:00 - [2] Great idea!
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:08:00 - [3] Good idea, if: - It would take at least an hour even with max skills - The owning corp would get a mail saying 'your tower in xxx is being haxxed!1!' ISD raped my sig!
Clay101 Caldari M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Sokratesz Good idea, if: - It would take at least an hour even with max skills - The owning corp would get a mail saying 'your tower in xxx is being haxxed!1!' an hour with max skills? maybe, but that's quite some time. More like 45 minutes with absolute max skills. Racial, make it somewhat racial! as Mary said "Hacking V POS Hacking x (Higher the level = increased chances)." ok, how about: Hacking V POS Hacking X Radar Hacking X (or straight up amarr, or cald etc.) Ladar Hacking X (or straight up amarr, or cald etc.) etc. now, i don't get involved in POS, but this is a good idea for game enhancement for those who "enjoy" these parts of the game. Smacktalk Specialization Lvl 5
Yamichi Wiggin Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.08 15:26:00 - [5] I love it. Offline POS should be take-over-able :-) Perhaps Station Hacking increases your chance of successfully getting the tower down. The racial hack skills can decrease your time. I like the idea of base time taking an hour as that's how long it takes to anchor the thing anyway. Part of me isn't sure about the notification of your tower getting hacked. the dozens of "your POS is almost out of fuel" eve-mails should count for that. And if it's out of fuel, how's it gonna send you a notice? :-) One thing I'd be curious about. If a POS is offlined and has modules, do you have to hack those modules or do they come with the POS? ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body. There is no love in fear
Mary CarryAlot	Posted - 2007.05.08 18:26:00 - [6] Yeah i think it shouldn't be 'easy' as in instant - needs to take some time and Im in agreement that no notification of a hack should be sent out - no fuel mails should be enough. Imho people shouldnt ever leave pos's offline - its like leaving a carrier without a pilot - this needs to be addressed. I think its a great idea to 'clean up' space and also make people actually work for keeping their space rather than spamming placeholders. Like the devs have always said - 0.0 is great risk and great reward. Mary
Mary CarryAlot	Posted - 2007.05.08 18:27:00 - [7] Oh and I think modules should be separate with maybe less of a jacking time associated - maybe keep the base time as the anchor or onlining time and then have chance based after that. Mary
Clay101 Caldari M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.08 18:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Mary CarryAlot Oh and I think modules should be separate with maybe less of a jacking time associated - maybe keep the base time as the anchor or onlining time and then have chance based after that. Mary i don't know wat the onlining time for things is, but i think i heard someone say that alot of modules take around 10-15Mins? if thats so, it's a good idea - the base time to anchor is how long it takes to hack it with max skills minus racial skill bonus time which will make it take even less time. Smacktalk Specialization Lvl 5
Artu Stargazer	Posted - 2007.05.09 07:22:00 - [9] Heh, I like it. It sure won't stop POS spam but it will at least make there be a penalty for it (leaving valuable equipment for an enemy to pick up). I can see people ninjaing offline POS with recons and carrier jumps. It should take a little while after a POS shuts down from lack of fuel to start hacking it though, at least 24 hours. Also, this gives a reason to ignore POS on an offensive and move forward if you can, any POS you can keep from getting fueled and don't have to kill are yours to keep as booty. Only problem with this is that carrier jumps and cloaks make it rather difficult to maintain a full blockade of a system in Eve.
Trovax Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.09 09:44:00 - [10] I like this idea alot, heres my 2 cents... 1) How about makking it so POS's are actually a rented item from each state. That way regardless to if they are online or not, for each POS you have, you pay a rental fee to say the caldari state for a caldari tower. This would then cause the owner corps to have to activly maintain their POS's. It would work the same way as office rentals, When the bill is issued, you have a certain amount of time to pay or, the next DT, it gets removed to the owner corps HQ office. 2) Starbase charters. Make it so these get used regardless of weither the POS is online or not. If it runs out, you have 24 hours to get some in or the POS itself gets tagged as 'ABANDONED'. In which case anyone comming along with a few starbase chraters in their cargo can simply put them in and claim the POS. No need to hack as when a POS is offline, its totally dead. IE no power to the security systems. Maybe my ideas suck... i dont know. But one thing i do like about the whole thing is that it will stop allainces/corps over expanding too quickly and would encourage the correct management in building an empire. IE take a system, build it up, then when ready, move to the neigbougring one, or one a couple of jumps away. Not 'POS SPAM'. "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"

Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.05.09 09:47:00 - [11] This makes good sense. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
JanSVK	Posted - 2007.05.09 10:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Trovax I like this idea alot, heres my 2 cents... 1) How about making it so POS's are actually a rented item from each state. That way regardless to if they are online or not, for each POS you have, you pay a rental fee to say the caldari state for a caldari tower. This would then cause the owner corps to have to activly maintain their POS's. It would work the same way as office rentals, When the bill is issued, you have a certain amount of time to pay or, the next DT, it gets removed to the owner corps HQ office. 2) Starbase charters. Make it so these get used regardless of weither the POS is online or not. If it runs out, you have 24 hours to get some in or the POS itself gets tagged as 'ABANDONED'. In which case anyone comming along with a few starbase chraters in their cargo can simply put them in and claim the POS. No need to hack as when a POS is offline, its totally dead. IE no power to the security systems. I think this is not a good idea. POS are already enough expensive to mantain and 0.0 is suposed to be law less so why the hell should I pay rent? I think POS hacking is a good idea. But why make the hacking chance based in the first place? Just make it to take a fix amouth of time dependent on skills. Example: 30 min on small tower, 1 h on med tower and 1 h 30 min on large tower with maxed skills and + 25% time with crap skills. Aditionnaly I would suggest to have the warning mail when tower is being hacked. I keep reading that this is a PVP game and such mail would definetly supprot some PVP. Finally I would suggest that you have to first hack the tower before you can hack the modules.
Trovax Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.09 10:55:00 - [13] Quote: I think this is not a good idea. POS are already enough expensive to mantain and 0.0 is suposed to be law less so why the hell should I pay rent? Because you would be renting the POS tower from said faction thats why, regardless of where you put it. The idea is to prvent POS spammin. If you use all your POS's you have nothing to worry about. And if your using your POS's effectivly then you should be able to make more than enough isk to cover the cost of the POS. However, I do agree that POS's are a bit over expensive to run. I've always thought that. Anyways, i've revised my ideas after further though... 1) When a POS runs out of fuel, it get's labled as 'ABANDONED' after 24 hours. In which case anyone comming along with some fuel in their cargo can simply put it in and claim the POS. No need to hack as when a POS is offline, its totally dead. IE no power to the security systems. And anyone that says 'What if we cant get on for a week?', then all i can say is that your corp(s) arnt big enough or ready to handle a POS yet, and you shouldnt have one anyways. Not a flame....just the reality/truth. "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"
Angelus Xenotov	Posted - 2007.05.09 13:55:00 - [14] Personally, I think Hacking a Pos should take 22:30 hours. Basically, you drop a virus into the tower which takes around 15 minutes, which then takes 22 hours to complete. Notification is sent out. But if they haven't responded, the hacker can jump back, hack for 15 and there you go, 1 pos.
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Angelus Xenotov Personally, I think Hacking a Pos should take 22:30 hours. Basically, you drop a virus into the tower which takes around 15 minutes, which then takes 22 hours to complete. Notification is sent out. But if they haven't responded, the hacker can jump back, hack for 15 and there you go, 1 pos. That's lame. I go back and put a bit of fuel in and reclaim it to stop the hacker. After that, I let it run out again and the hacker has to start over. That means I only need to online it for one hour every day to prevent a hacker getting in. If it's left abandoned and out of fuel, it means nobody wants it. The reasoning behind that is: I they wanted it they'd be using it and keeping it fuelled. I agree that no notification should be sent out since they can't be bothered to keep it maintained, out of fuel notices are enough. It would be like leaving your house empty with the power cut off for squatters to move in. Or does your empty and powerless house send you a letter saying someone is trying to get in? The POS has no power and so it can't send notification to the owner. Caveat emptor. When you buy something, you accept the item is 'sold as seen'. When you buy it, it has no power and anyone can take it from you. When you anchor it and leave it without power, the same rule should apply. IMO, no hacking should be required at all to take it over. --
Eleana Tomelac Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:36:00 - [16] Why not replacing the tower of an abandonned POS? You blow up the old tower, put yours instead, and after few days with YOUR tower online, the POS modules are yours (those inside the shields - or not, do we want our own guns to shoot at us when we come back to see what's happening to our POS?). This way you get some equipement and spent some time attacking the POS. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Happy owner of a Vexor Navy Issue and few ishkurs. The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2007.05.09 22:48:00 - [17] add can hacking too :D
Angelus Xenotov	Posted - 2007.05.10 00:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Drizit That's lame. I go back and put a bit of fuel in and reclaim it to stop the hacker. Ok, remove the mail about the hacking in progress. But It should still take quite awhile for the hacking to take place, not some lame-ass 1 hour 'omfg its mine now' stuff, 1 day (23 hours) is acceptable.
Captain Nuf Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.12 09:36:00 - [19] To include most points, including the need for a big timer. A POS can only get hacked (which could take only an hour or less), after it has been offline for a full EVE day - 23hours. The owner should of received a mail by then saying it is offline, and so is aware of the risk of leaving it. If they choose to then ignore the mail and it gets hacked.... tough
Mary CarryAlot	Posted - 2007.05.16 10:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Captain Nuf To include most points, including the need for a big timer. A POS can only get hacked (which could take only an hour or less), after it has been offline for a full EVE day - 23hours. The owner should of received a mail by then saying it is offline, and so is aware of the risk of leaving it. If they choose to then ignore the mail and it gets hacked.... tough Indeed - no notifications need to be sent out - fuel DED mails should be enough. Remember this move is to combat many things in the game that are being taken advantage of: 1. Placeholder pos's which have no intention of being put online and are simply there to hold the space (Not used as intended). 2. Ensure that all POS's have fuel in them - lazy pos managers will pay the price if they 'forget' 3. Clear up space from old offline towers that have been abandoned over the years. Mary

Infomad	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:40:00 - [21] Edited by: Infomad on 19/11/2007 16:40:59 Quote: That's lame. I go back and put a bit of fuel in and reclaim it to stop the hacker. After that, I let it run out again and the hacker has to start over. That means I only need to online it for one hour every day to prevent a hacker getting in. Computers and electronic use more power when booting up than when they are running. I suppose a tower could use 10x the resources the first hour to help prevent abuse such as that. Quote: "Hacking V POS Hacking x (Higher the level = increased chances)." ok, how about: Hacking V POS Hacking X Radar POS Hacking X (or straight up amarr, or cald etc.) Ladar POS Hacking X (or straight up amarr, or cald etc.) etc. I think the racial encryption skills cover what you are thinking about. Hacking 5 POS hacking, higher level decreases time it takes to hack POS. The proper racial encryption at level 5 matching the type of tower.
NupetietVer	Posted - 2007.12.01 18:06:00 - [22] Agreed, either destroy the main tower and replace it with your own, or hack the tower. Each one has its own advantages and disadvantages. Hack-takes longer, but doesn't require a tower Replace-shorter time, but expensive


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