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Freighters Drop Loot? Freighters should have fitting slots!

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RC Denton	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:08:00 - [1] If freighters now drop loot then their should be a counterbalance and I think that counterbalance should be freighters get fitting slots, CPU, and PG. I mean even 1 DC would be a huge thing for a freighter. They should get like 5 low slots and be able to structure tank.
Ash Vincetti Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:20:00 - [2] Actually, freighters were always meant to drop loot, and weren't meant to get fitting slots. The fact that freighters now drop loot, is a BUG FIX, not a "nerf". -----
Minnu Minmatar SFTW Manufacturing INC.	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Ash Vincetti Actually, freighters were always meant to drop loot, and weren't meant to get fitting slots. The fact that freighters now drop loot, is a BUG FIX, not a "nerf". Signed ------------- I build stuff :)
Ash Donai	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:25:00 - [4] Originally by: RC Denton If freighters now drop loot then their should be a counterbalance and I think that counterbalance should be freighters get fitting slots, CPU, and PG. I mean even 1 DC would be a huge thing for a freighter. They should get like 5 low slots and be able to structure tank. RC Denton, consider yourself put on notice that should you continue to submit suggestions and requests that actually make sense, then your will guaranteed be subject to trolling, flamming, and the wrath of developers who work on features which make no sense to anyone but themselves (if only about half the time). Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
Digitalfox Central Defiance Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:30:00 - [5] Let me see 5 low slots . . . gimme at least 4 of those filled with t2 cargo expenders and 1 with a dcu. With my Charon and freighter skill at 5 . . . well beyond the million cubic meter of cargo, with 50% resits on 100k structuer. As much as i would like that, it would make it way to overpowerd -------------------------------------------------------------------- Central Defiance says "check out our movie" DEFY
Idara Caldari Missioners Anonymous	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:46:00 - [6] lol. NO --- in EVE - Idara
Indiria Fuentes Terra Rosa Militia North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:48:00 - [7] whow, up to the next round... with 4.5mil sp I¦m quite new to the game but have read almost all threads concerning this topic within the last weeks (and many many others in the last months;)). I think slots would make freighters imbalanced and simply too strong. One simple dcu would almost double a freighters hitpoints, sounds to much. The ability to fit cargo expanders would also have to be prohibited etc. But nevertheless the fact that freighters drop loot and suiciding freighters in highsec is too easy atm (with drones not stopping damage after concord jaming) shows, that risk/reward is out of balance atm. I think the simplest solution would be to stop insurance-payout for concordokend ships and reworking drone-behaviour after concord intervenes in the fight. That would make it more difficult to suicide freighters in highsec but leave still the possibility to do it, which is perfectly ok and necessary within the sandbox. But it should only be rewarding for the guys that do their homework and pick the right targets with multi-billion freight or for alliances as a method to disrupt logistics of the enemy. Another thing that should be done is getting people out of the noob-corps after a while. People will complain: "it prevents me from beeing able to do this stuff solo, i want to reach goals of this size alone." Lets be honest, a freighter is the largest ship for moving tradegoods around, one kind of primary goal for most of the dedicated traders. Why should this people expect to reach a goal of this size without other people they cope with? If you want to be a top-notch trader or industrialist, cope with people in industrial corps and most of the trouble would be solved on its own. regards Indiria
RC Denton	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Digitalfox Let me see 5 low slots . . . gimme at least 4 of those filled with t2 cargo expenders and 1 with a dcu. With my Charon and freighter skill at 5 . . . well beyond the million cubic meter of cargo, with 50% resits on 100k structuer. As much as i would like that, it would make it way to overpowerd Ok so put restrictions on what can be mounted or penalties for mods you don't want to have on there. Or give it med slots and let it shield tank instead of structure or armor tank. As a capital ship a freighter should have a similar tank to carriers or unsieged dreads. I.E. It should be very hard to gank one.
Ash Donai	Posted - 2007.05.08 22:53:00 - [9] Edited by: Ash Donai on 08/05/2007 22:52:43 Originally by: Digitalfox With my Charon and freighter skill at 5 . . . well beyond the million cubic meter of cargo, with 50% resits on 100k structuer. As much as i would like that, it would make it way to overpowerd Just out of curiosity, which part is the overpowered one? Shipping 1 million m3 is expensive, whatever is in your hold costs ISK. In fact, even shipping 785k m3 is expensive. Outbreak has sufficiently demonstrated that it is inexpensive to kill a freighter in hisec. I forget whether they had 12 BS, or 16, or whatever, let's call it 20 Domis with T1 fittings and T2 drones (or use T2 bulkheads and hulltank, let Concord try to pop that Domi quickly!). That means it takes 3 billion isk up front to gank a freighter in hisec (then you receive the insurance payout for your Domis and the true cost is even lower). A Charon insures up to what? Approximately 750mil? Let's say 750mil, insurance costs 250mil then, and you paid 1bn for the Charon. So if you get ganked you are automatically out 500mil whether you had cargo on board or not. Add to that the complete loss of whatever cargo you are hauling and you see that your loss will almost always exceed 3 billion (unless you fly empty or haul uncompressed trit). There's no doubt that just as anyone else, freighters should be exposed to risk, but right now they are just too easy to pop, and personally I am much surprised that not more freighters which leave Jita are scanned and popped a few gates into their journey. That's why a slot or two wouldn't be breaking the game but balancing it a bit more. Edit: And just what is the rational argument of those who don't want freighters do have cargo expanders? Does it really just get under your skin if someone could haul 1mil m3 instead of 875k m3? You have got to be kidding me...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.08 23:03:00 - [10] Originally by: RC Denton If freighters now drop loot then their should be a counterbalance and I think that counterbalance should be freighters get fitting slots, CPU, and PG. I mean even 1 DC would be a huge thing for a freighter. They should get like 5 low slots and be able to structure tank. are you a sheep ? all we need is drones to get jammed / killed by concord and there is no ganking issue with anyone carrying non alliance type of wealth ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some

Indiria Fuentes Terra Rosa Militia North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.08 23:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Ash Donai And just what is the rational argument of those who don't want freighters do have cargo expanders? Does it really just get under your skin if someone could haul 1mil m3 instead of 875k m3? You have got to be kidding me... Cargo expanders would make transporting capitals into highsec possible, something ccp definately does not want to happen;)
Caol The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.08 23:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Indiria Fuentes Originally by: Ash Donai And just what is the rational argument of those who don't want freighters do have cargo expanders? Does it really just get under your skin if someone could haul 1mil m3 instead of 875k m3? You have got to be kidding me... Cargo expanders would make transporting capitals into highsec possible, something ccp definately does not want to happen;) Unless they put player made capital ships in the "illegal" bracket for goods I suppose.
Ash Donai	Posted - 2007.05.08 23:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Caol Originally by: Indiria Fuentes Originally by: Ash Donai And just what is the rational argument of those who don't want freighters do have cargo expanders? Does it really just get under your skin if someone could haul 1mil m3 instead of 875k m3? You have got to be kidding me... Cargo expanders would make transporting capitals into highsec possible, something ccp definately does not want to happen;) Unless they put player made capital ships in the "illegal" bracket for goods I suppose. Or they simply change the packaged volume of all capitals to be above the max cargo of expanded freighters. However, personally I could live with the drones disengaging as soon as attackers are jammed by Concord and people not receiving insurance payouts if their ship was popped by Concord. I just don't want my freighter which is hauling dozens of billions worth of stuff easily ganked in hisec. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.08 23:39:00 - [14] Originally by: Ash Donai Originally by: Caol I just don't want my freighter which is hauling dozens of billions worth of stuff easily ganked in hisec. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request. it will always be easy it is just stupidly broken drone mechanics easy right now ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Professional Troll	Posted - 2007.05.08 23:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Digitalfox Let me see 5 low slots . . . gimme at least 4 of those filled with t2 cargo expenders and 1 with a dcu. With my Charon and freighter skill at 5 . . . well beyond the million cubic meter of cargo, with 50% resits on 100k structuer. As much as i would like that, it would make it way to overpowerd How about five DCU's. ~83% resist with 100K hull means more than 600K damage to destroy it. Considering it already takes more than a dozen BSes to pop one before being concorded, that would mean you'd need more than fifty with the proposed changes. Perhaps a mid slot and 700 PG, 150 CPU so they can mount a 100MN AB or a large hull repairer. That would also tend to the complaints about not being able to repair damaged Freighters for free like you can with any other ship. Your toys suck! \|T\|R\|O\|L\|L\|I\|N\|G\| My anti-drug. Because CCP won't let me be an attention *** any more and I don't want to become a *** head .
Kiviar Caldari Dirty Sanchez Ltd	Posted - 2007.05.08 23:58:00 - [16] Giving freighters slots will not improve their survivablity. Unless you give them access to capitol level gear and a huge boost in armour hp a determined assault will still burn through their tank in seconds. Besides people will use those slots to buff the cargo capacity to levels which were not intended in the game. In the end its a bad idea that people should get over. Killing freighters is here and instead of complaining about things changing adapt. Forums are what?
Nightwing	Posted - 2007.05.09 00:23:00 - [17] LOL@ the noobs criticizing the OP of overpowered.. As it is now it takes only 40 seconds to pop a freighter and theirs nothing they can do about it. I think its a great idea to put slots on it. 4 wcs and 1 dcu II would make it in line to survive against 15 suicide dominixs which is all it takes to pop one in 40 seconds.
Indiria Fuentes Terra Rosa Militia North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.09 00:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Nightwing LOL@ the noobs criticizing the OP of overpowered.. As it is now it takes only 40 seconds to pop a freighter and theirs nothing they can do about it. I think its a great idea to put slots on it. 4 wcs and 1 dcu II would make it in line to survive against 15 suicide dominixs which is all it takes to pop one in 40 seconds. It only takes 30 seconds because drones/concord mechanics seem broken. If drones stop damaging when concord jams, no way your 15 domis would be able to pop the freighter at all. >> problem solved... just the fact i¦m no vet doesn¦t mean i¦m not able to think about the topic, mr. pro;)
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.05.09 00:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Professional Troll Originally by: Digitalfox Let me see 5 low slots . . . gimme at least 4 of those filled with t2 cargo expenders and 1 with a dcu. With my Charon and freighter skill at 5 . . . well beyond the million cubic meter of cargo, with 50% resits on 100k structuer. As much as i would like that, it would make it way to overpowerd How about five DCU's. ~83% resist with 100K hull means more than 600K damage to destroy it. Yay for idiots talking about stuff they don't understand. You can only activate 1 DCU on a ship. Don't post if you don't have a basic knowledge of the module in question. ---------------- If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a browser that supports .png.
Moria	Posted - 2007.05.09 01:50:00 - [20] take out the lows and put in mid slots problem solved about whether they can run cargo expanders still make them unable to fit propulsion mods just say its due to the molecular structure of the cargohold being unable to maintain structural integrity under excessive strain. don't worry once a u know who freighter gets ganked then u will see a change

Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.09 01:51:00 - [21] Why are you asking for fittings when all you really want is a HP boost? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:04:00 - [22] im going to smack the next person who talks about any type of freighter boosts they wouldnt die so easily if drones worked properly when concord jammed you - or wouldnt work in this case ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:09:00 - [23] Originally by: SiJira im going to smack the next person who talks about any type of freighter boosts they wouldnt die so easily if drones worked properly when concord jammed you - or wouldnt work in this case You don't fight many ECM equipped ships, either in missions or PvP, do you? I would LOVE to see the howl of the mission runners if this was instituted when they are jammed, scrammed, and their drones are doing a happy dance oblivious to everything while their ship explodes.
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:20:00 - [24] Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 09/05/2007 02:22:09 Originally by: Nightwing LOL@ the noobs criticizing the OP of overpowered.. As it is now it takes only 40 seconds to pop a freighter and theirs nothing they can do about it. I think its a great idea to put slots on it. 4 wcs and 1 dcu II would make it in line to survive against 15 suicide dominixs which is all it takes to pop one in 40 seconds. It takes about 3.2 seconds to pop a faction fitted crow once it gets webbed. Other than that or a dd its more or less invulnerable unless the pilot **s up... i.e. going straight toward a turret ship. If a freighter jumps into 15-30 battleships sitting on a gate then thats their screw up. AFK is no defense. Eve is not a padded kindergarten like WoW. If you arent hauling billions in loot then you arent worth a suicide gank unless you really someone off (see: Karma video) Insuring a freighter costs what.. 200mil? Most fleet BS pilots until invention lost this every time they were downed in fleet combat. Get used to it or start using stabbed haulers. There is no problem. The problems have been fixed regarding ridiculous amounts of cash being made/moved while afk. Freighters now have some risk to balance the reward. If freighters die enough... maybe people will start putting up more small hauling contracts that will entice noobs to get involved and the system will actually work. Your freighter doesn't have to be full to move... it will take longer but thats risk vs. reward in action. Stabs on a freighter wouldnt mean crap against a bumpadomi but more tank + cloak + stabs would make them a lot harder to kill in lowsec/0.0 and that is bad. You can kill a freighter with 1 domi if you catch it in low sec or 0.0. How many freighters have been suicide ganked now? someone wanna give an accurate tally of how 3-4 dead haulers can send this forum into a frenzy? Edit: To those saying freighters are the equivalent of carriers because of cost... what do you call a lone carrier? Dead. They need cyno pilots to get them in and out of places... 2 if they want to move in less than 10 minutes... the cyno pilots often act as scouts as well. Freighter + scout is as unkillable as ever. It does not need slots. Drones should not be jammable. Originally by:** Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
TVPR	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:23:00 - [25] Yup. Making drones disengage just because of a Concord lock is not only stupid, it's also illogical. But I agree it's too easy to pop a freighter as of now, though removing insurance payout for ships killed by Concord would help a lot in preventing this from happening - cutting profits for the assailants this way, about 900 million or so per freighter, would mean only the freighters carrying 3-4 billion or more would be anywhere close to profitable targets. In turn, this would mean more incentive towards people escorting their most expensive freighters, which would make identifying such easier for the pirates - a nice compromise which doesn't really nerf anything.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:35:00 - [26] As a pseudo-capital ship I think that they should be a little more meaty. Id give them a few medslots (so they don't get cargo expanders or cloaks). A few medslots would allow a freighter to tank his shield up a little, or to fit some rsd, or tracking disruptors. They should have some limited capability to make them live a little longer if the pilot knows what he is doing, that extra 20s of life afforded by the medslots could give him just enough time for some omgwtfbbqppwning courtesy of the local concord.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:52:00 - [27] Originally by: Siege Originally by: SiJira im going to smack the next person who talks about any type of freighter boosts they wouldnt die so easily if drones worked properly when concord jammed you - or wouldnt work in this case You don't fight many ECM equipped ships, either in missions or PvP, do you? I would LOVE to see the howl of the mission runners if this was instituted when they are jammed, scrammed, and their drones are doing a happy dance oblivious to everything while their ship explodes. key word concord reading comprehension level 4 trained - check advanced understanding level 1 - need to train ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
RC Denton	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:54:00 - [28] Originally by: TVPR Yup. Making drones disengage just because of a Concord lock is not only stupid, it's also illogical. But I agree it's too easy to pop a freighter as of now, though removing insurance payout for ships killed by Concord would help a lot in preventing this from happening - cutting profits for the assailants this way, about 900 million or so per freighter, would mean only the freighters carrying 3-4 billion or more would be anywhere close to profitable targets. In turn, this would mean more incentive towards people escorting their most expensive freighters, which would make identifying such easier for the pirates - a nice compromise which doesn't really nerf anything. The problem is you could have a big fleet escorting it and it would make no difference. You couldn't engage the gankers/griefers until they engage the freighter without concord going after your fleet. And once they engage the freighter game over. The freighter itself needs to be beefier. It shouldn't be ungankable, or invulnerable or anything stupid like that but it should be able to have some defensive options.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Aphotic Raven Drones should not be jammable. they should stop shooting when you **** off concord ill refer you to my other reply you need the skill too ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:55:00 - [30] Edited by: SiJira on 09/05/2007 02:51:52 Originally by: TVPR Yup. Making drones disengage just because of a Concord l Quote: jammed / killed by concord ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some



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