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Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.05.14 03:03:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
The facts are already firmly established. I witnessed the destruction of that Charon and CAIN pilots killed thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of peaceful activists. Not all have been clamoring for armed rebellion, in fact most did not until that transport blew up. As this investigation is clearly PR spin, I doubt you'll make amends, either.
You'll notice that at no point did I deny that Reserve pilots took part in the destruction of the freighter. The more important facts are the whys and hows involved here. While I expect you and others who think little of us to assume that this is all a crass PR stunt, I can only reiterate that we are taking this matter quite seriously and we have no intention of sweeping anything under the rug.
--
CAPT Svetlana Scarlet
CAIN Chief of Diplomatic Staff
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.14 03:42:00 -
[32]
Yeah, I know you didn't deny involvement. I simply think your attempt at situation control is pathetic.
Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate |
Yasujiro Kaibara
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2007.05.14 03:54:00 -
[33]
If the facts are to be coming from anywhere, I believe all the parties distressed by this incident would be more inclined to hear and believe them if they came from Melarius Torvil himself and the Brothers of Freedom, rather than the Reserve.
Unless Mr. Torvil was also one of the many who perished in the incident...? Hmm, a truly saddening thought.
In any case, I await a detailed response from the Brothers of Freedom in regard.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:11:00 -
[34]
As my esteemed comrade, Jasmine, suggests, it would seem that CAIN have suckled overlong at the Amarrian teat if their pilots' reflex action when faced with a freighter packed with Caldari citizens who wish to bring grievances to the attention of the central authorities is to blast it out of space. I have no great use for Caldari law but it is in theory supposed to apply with equal force to all members of their society, from the mightiest megacorporations to the lowest wage-slave drudges. CAIN may hold as many boards of inquiry as they like but if they truly continue to respect the traditions and laws of their own people they will submit to investigation and trial by the properly constituted authorities.
Caldari who retain a sense of justice and faith in the traditions of their society might expect CAIN to suffer the appropriate sanction if their pilots are found guilty of criminal acts. Certainly, if the massacre of thousands of Caldari citizens, travelling in an unarmed vessel to petition the central authority of the State, is not found to be a heinous act meriting meaningful punishment we will fairly be able to conclude that those who control the State consider such an event to be in their interests. Some may still believe the Caldari State continues to represent all that is good and true in the Caldari character but I am not holding my breath in expectation of CAIN's exile from the State for the actions of its pilots.
Mind you... *chuckles* ...I'm not altogether sure how much of a punishment exile would be for CAIN given it currently operates as a foreign legion in the service of Amarrian interests in Domain and Providence.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2007.05.14 18:59:00 -
[35]
CAIN has already called for an independent investigation by the Tribunal as well. Your cynicism does not do you service in this case.
--
CAPT Svetlana Scarlet
CAIN Chief of Diplomatic Staff
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.14 20:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Svetlana Scarlet
CAIN has already called for an independent investigation by the Tribunal as well. Your cynicism does not do you service in this case.
* The Cosmopolite chuckles...
Ah, dear Svetlana, I can hardly deny that I am a cynic, a romantic cynic perhaps, but a cynic nonetheless.
Leaving that to one side, I would not automatically grant that the Caldari Business Tribunal is the appropriate authority to deal with this matter.
After all, what we have here is a case of pilots bearing the colours of an Amarrian loyalist paramilitary alliance shooting down a civilian freighter carrying citizens of the Caldari State to petition what passes for their government.
It seems to me that this has the makings of an international incident and that the Caldari Executive Panel might consider appointing a special investigator to address the serious issues raised by this disgraceful incident.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.05.14 21:05:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Van Cleef on 14/05/2007 21:16:14
I am ultimately responsible for the actions of my officers, and I will deal with any indiscresions done on the behalf of interpetation of my orders during this incident.
Threats from outside forces do not do me, or my corporation any pause. The Standard that all CAIN officers must abide by since this corporation was formed will be applied and judged. If the State wishes otherwise, they can contact myself or any of the flag officers.
As far as anarchist ramblings, you are big believers in "right over might" and that everyone must fend for themselves without the trappings of governments. I find your discussions about current operations or actions laughable.
------------------------------------------------
CEO and Admiral of the Fleet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Serve the State
Join Channel CAINCOM |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.05.14 21:48:00 -
[38]
And in the event that your own investigation determines that your pilots are guilty of assisting in the murder of an untold number of Caldari citizens engaged in a peaceful protest (in other words, if they are guilty of committing an act of piracy in the heart of State territory), what sort of measures are you prepared to take in order to deal with the pilots involved? Nothing to match the scale of the crime, I'm sure.
_
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Bacchanalian
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.14 21:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Van Cleef
Edited by: Van Cleef on 14/05/2007 21:16:14
As far as anarchist ramblings, you are big believers in "right over might" and that everyone must fend for themselves without the trappings of governments. I find your discussions about current operations or actions laughable.
I'm sure the families of those murdered will take solace in the fact that you can find humor in this.
Star Fraction is recruiting, join the revolution! |
Wessel Jeroen
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2007.05.14 22:43:00 -
[40]
This looks great, hope it will be,
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dee kline
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Posted - 2007.05.14 23:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Bacchanalian
I'm sure the families of those murdered will take solace in the fact that you can find humor in this.
IÆm sure you sympathy is deeply appreciated. Out of curiosity, how many innocent state citizens, hoping to feed their children a little better on crewmanÆs wages, have died under your guns? If those grandiose war diaries are to be believed, then the body count leans heavily in favor of you, oh defender of the proletariat.
Care to offer an estimate?
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Bacchanalian
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.15 00:14:00 -
[42]
Originally by: dee kline
Originally by: Bacchanalian
I'm sure the families of those murdered will take solace in the fact that you can find humor in this.
IÆm sure you sympathy is deeply appreciated. Out of curiosity, how many innocent state citizens, hoping to feed their children a little better on crewmanÆs wages, have died under your guns? If those grandiose war diaries are to be believed, then the body count leans heavily in favor of you, oh defender of the proletariat.
Care to offer an estimate?
I'd say the crews of combat ships in military organizations is a slightly different cup of tea than civilian protestors engaging in peaceful, unarmed protest. Perhaps you need to spend your time working with Hedion University a bit more wisely?
Star Fraction is recruiting, join the revolution! |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Caldari Research Management
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Posted - 2007.05.15 04:58:00 -
[43]
I am a Caldari Citizen through and through.
I have flown with pod pilots from all nations, while not enjoying the smell of the average gallentean who overadorns their body with chemical fragrances, I respect those that assist myself, my corp and does nothing to risk the state.
Only a few hours ago, I was in the public CAINCOM channel discussing how I could be of service to the State, within this alliance.
I have only read the statement published here http://cain.excidium.net/news.html?id=17 a few minutes ago after reading of the gravity of the situation. I have no other information regarding the cargo, destination or inhabitants of the vessel, however regardless of the outcome of the inquiry, I can not in good faith justify the destruction of an unarmed civilian transport, let alone a Caldari registered vessel.
The freedom of speech all Caldari born citizens enjoy should not be silenced in the vacuum of space.
I am at a loss to understand the actions or justifications of CAIN.
Two days left before the investigation is complete. Until then I must hold out hope that CAIN truly represents the majority Caldari view, or at the very least aren't murderous home grown terrorists.
Life is about memories the more the better.
Looking for CCP to improve availability of their GTC's, for non card carriers! |
Davlos
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.15 06:04:00 -
[44]
Not surprising at all that this has happened. To those who seem to have Caldari blood flowing through their veins and claim to know the State: you don't know it enough.
If CAIN didn't destroy or forcefully detain those protesters, some other element of the State would have done it anyway. The State isn't the Gallente Federation where protesters, peaceful or no have any sort of rights whatsoever.
Those protesters could have been smarter if they wished to exile themselves like I did, and the many others who are my colleagues are. They paid the price for not using the substance that lies behind their eyes.
---------------
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.15 06:32:00 -
[45]
I don't think the average citizen could spare the change required to move out of the State, Davlos. There's little doubt in my mind that the people in that freighter were nowhere near as well off as you and I.
Even if they could emigrate, it would not solve the underlying problem.
Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate |
Irias Salo
Caldari
The Star Wolves
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Posted - 2007.05.15 06:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Davlos
Not surprising at all that this has happened. To those who seem to have Caldari blood flowing through their veins and claim to know the State: you don't know it enough.
If CAIN didn't destroy or forcefully detain those protesters, some other element of the State would have done it anyway. The State isn't the Gallente Federation where protesters, peaceful or no have any sort of rights whatsoever.
Those protesters could have been smarter if they wished to exile themselves like I did, and the many others who are my colleagues are. They paid the price for not using the substance that lies behind their eyes.
It was a peaceful protest Davlos, the Brothers were fired upon first, and as far as I'm aware didn't return fire. If State forces had opened fire then they'd have been commiting crimes in accordance with our own law, and that of CONCORD.
Originally by: Ginger.
There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
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Davlos
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.15 07:54:00 -
[47]
The dissidents may stow away on a freighter for all they liked, but the least they could do was to not attract any sort of attention to them. The Brothers of Freedom did. That's where they failed to use their brains. Utter f*cking failures of State education.
On top of that... Dr. Salo. Do you remember Kassigainen? I don't believe there was any talk about 'rights' and 'regulations' when Kaalakiota security personnel stormed their own facilities to quell the riots.
---------------
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.15 12:00:00 -
[48]
Naphtalia and I have had quite a chuckle reading the follow up to what was supposed to be a peaceful demonstration.
It's amusing how a so called State Paramilitary organisation flies under the banner of the Amarr loyalists, working to assist the Empire in it's goals.
It's even more amusing that when there is trouble inside State borders, CAIN respond by returning to their "home" and butchering tens of thousands of their own citizens in the destruction of a peaceful demonstration.
Where were CAIN when the Kaalakiota mining facility on Kassigainen IV broke into dissent? Sat on the sidelines while APEX Unlimited took the initiative and Veto Corp assisted as hired guns by an undisclosed source to cull the armed incursion of Federation Forces into the Caldari Borderzone. Meanwhile Kaalakiota personnel attacked their own employees in an attempt to call and end to the rioting.
Where were CAIN when news of the mistreatment of hundreds of children of the State, your citizens, and the very future of the State itself was broken to the entire cluster by The Scope? CAIN were on GalNet of course, attempting to block any non-state aid into the affected areas, while the children remained malnourished and uncared for.
What kind of message about the weakness of the State's paramilitary bloc does it send to the future citizens you will serve when Gurista loyalist forces are the people feeding them and putting clothes on their backs?
How much aid did CAIN donate? Amusing that two pirate corporations who are apparent enemies of the state, clothed fed and provided for future citizens with the help of the Sister Of Eve, while CAIN sat back and watched, ignorant due to their blatent arrogance.
There are no whys, there are no buts and there are no hows. There are no excuses.
In recent months CAIN have failed to adequately assist the State at literally every curve, instead more recently running off to act as the lapdog and whipping boy for Imperial Loyalist forces in Providence.
"Caldari" and "Loyalist" does not come into the equation at any point. Claiming so is a poor attempt at comedy at best.
In the words of a friend, CAIN certainly do need to "Learn What It Means To Be Caldari"
Cold. Hard. Fact.
>>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Caldari Research Management
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Posted - 2007.05.15 12:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Davlos
Not surprising at all that this has happened. To those who seem to have Caldari blood flowing through their veins and claim to know the State: you don't know it enough.
If CAIN didn't destroy or forcefully detain those protesters, some other element of the State would have done it anyway. The State isn't the Gallente Federation where protesters, peaceful or no have any sort of rights whatsoever.
Those protesters could have been smarter if they wished to exile themselves like I did, and the many others who are my colleagues are. They paid the price for not using the substance that lies behind their eyes.
Oh please, justifying massacre can never be done. There will always be differing views on what makes A TRUE caldari. I hope to never have to fire on defenceless inteligent creatures that only want a fair hearing.
While your Amarrian Masters tell you where to go and who to shoot, I too am telling the whole of CAIN and it's sickening attitude to life where to go.
I have no love for Slave traders, many Amarrian pod pilots do not own slaves, while they move them around and generally create the dependance I can not support anyone of any faction who rationalise slavery as a commercial venture.
It is the Governments that need to update their policy and CONCORD must bring tougher sanctions to the Empire, and the moraless pilots of all factions that tolerate this evil practice.
Life is about memories the more the better.
Looking for CCP to improve availability of their GTC's, for non card carriers! |
Father Abel
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.05.15 12:46:00 -
[50]
Your moralistic attitudes indicate that some other nation is better suited for you, Sidrat Flush. The State is not a place you where you can go around saying it "must" do this or that. Not as an average citizen. If you want to change the State, do it after you reach the top of the ladder.
For the moment, the Federation aligns more with your values. There, you can dictate to the government what they should or should not do. There, you can condemn what you consider the abhorrent practices of any race you so choose. There, you can decry the absence of free speech or peaceable assembly rights elsewhere.
But not here. Not unless you're at the top.
_____________________
Father Abel - Lieutenant
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
"Private property makes a free man a free man." |
Father Abel
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2007.05.15 13:00:00 -
[51]
Quote:
"Caldari" and "Loyalist" does not come into the equation at any point. Claiming so is a poor attempt at comedy at best.
In the words of a friend, CAIN certainly do need to "Learn What It Means To Be Caldari"
Cold. Hard. Fact.
The State is not the people. The State is the will to whom all those people defer their individual autonomies in order to become and sustain a cohesive social construct. Boasting about how you circumvented the authorities to serve people, on matters the State had deemed settled or had reserved to settle themselves, shows how utterly bankrupt your comprehension of political bodies are--the State political body in particular.
_____________________
Father Abel - Lieutenant
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
"Private property makes a free man a free man." |
Irias Salo
Caldari
The Star Wolves
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Posted - 2007.05.15 14:56:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Father Abel
Quote:
"Caldari" and "Loyalist" does not come into the equation at any point. Claiming so is a poor attempt at comedy at best.
In the words of a friend, CAIN certainly do need to "Learn What It Means To Be Caldari"
Cold. Hard. Fact.
The State is not the people. The State is the will to whom all those people defer their individual autonomies in order to become and sustain a cohesive social construct. Boasting about how you circumvented the authorities to serve people, on matters the State had deemed settled or had reserved to settle themselves, shows how utterly bankrupt your comprehension of political bodies are--the State political body in particular.
Without the people there is no State.
Originally by: Ginger.
There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
|
Posted - 2007.05.15 17:32:00 -
[53]
Kyoko smiles
Well put, Mr. Verone and Mr. Salo.
Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Caldari Research Management
|
Posted - 2007.05.15 18:37:00 -
[54]
I have put aside my reservations on this matter and will decide my future when the findings of this "incident" have been made public.
The State exists to serve the population. A State that no longer reflects the population is an easily led one and will not benefit the citizens it is there to protect and enhance.
While CAIN may be repaying a debt to a debtor, I urge you to strongly protest about the immoral act of slave holdings.
Life is about memories the more the better.
Looking for CCP to improve availability of their GTC's, for non card carriers! |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
|
Posted - 2007.05.15 20:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Father Abel
The State is not the people.
An excellent point, and one I agree with wholeheartedly. However, let me ask you this: At the end of the day, whom does CAIN serve? The Caldari people or the Caldari State?
_
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Selim
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Posted - 2007.05.15 20:49:00 -
[56]
The silence of the news networks on this event is apalling. I find it shocking that I haven't heard of this earlier. Peaceful protesters attempting to reach out to their leaders to change the system, murdered by those who claim to protect them. It can not be put any other way than this. The megacorps and the state can not claim legitimacy when they do not represent the will of the people -- killing those who do not agree with the current order does not count.
I guess the Guristas are a bastion of morality compared to the State, now. At least they care for the individual and the disenfranchised.
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.15 21:59:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Irias Salo
Without the people there is no State.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
It seems like CAIN have a lot to learn.
>>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
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Roy Gordon
Caldari
The Star Wolves
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:36:00 -
[58]
Every where you look in these troubled times dissent stirs like a cancer within the heart of whatever society you chose to live in. One could almost believe some shadowy hand is behind all these upheavals. There is a pattern emerging here, one that I do not like.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
The Universe is ruled by three basic principles-
Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest! |
Nathaniel Hull
Caldari
808 Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.05.16 03:36:00 -
[59]
While your few gather, millions more serve the State. As you talk your little treason, Freelancers patrol for the state and keep the people safe from pirates and other scum. While your voice is but a whisper, the results of the Men and Women who work to keep the State the becon of prosperity it is shines.
-....You say we must throw off our shackles.....I say I shall throw you MELARIUS a rat from my neck.
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Mia Amada
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Posted - 2007.05.16 03:58:00 -
[60]
Hey! This is Mia Amada!
Our concert was awesome! Yeah, yeah, you know? We where like so psyched by the love that the Caldari have shown me and Theory of Pain, yeah, yeah, you know? We had a blast!
Your Corporations like, ruled! Yeah, yeah, you know? It was kinda weird at first because of the way things are organized and stuff but I was like, yeah, yeah, you know?... I was like....Heck! this is the way they do it and we just have to learn to deal with it, you know? Yeah, yeah, you know? They do it different than us but not ina bad way you know?
Well, yeah yeah, you know? We had an electrical and tubular experience on stage. It was so electrical that our soundman stayed in Caldari, it was crazy! I hope he is doing ok, he said he will be flying in sometime this week for our rehearsals for our next gig, yeah, yeah, you know?
A big thanks to all of the corporations, big and small that contributed to our bands success in Caldari space...You are awesome, yeah yeah! Thank you for taking a chance on a bunch of electrified and tubed gallenteans like us! Yeah, yeah, you know?
Thank you all that support us in Caldari, yeah! We will see you soon. Dont let the negativity put you down! Live the Electric and tubular lifestyle!
Shopping was great in Caldari. Yeah, yeah, you know? Like things where so cheap ove there...is it because there are many corporations competing for the consumers pocket and stuff?
Anyways, Yeah! See you soon Caldari! Mia Amada and Theory of Pain are here for you! Yeah, Yeah! We are going to heal the universe through the power of vibe! Yeah, Yeah, you know? YEah!
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