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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
   |
Posted - 2017.05.02 19:18:15 -
[1] - Quote
I must make an admission: I've not been a capsuleer captain for long. However, I've not been ignorant of the goings-on in the heavens. I have ambitions, and I have plans. Related to those plans is establishing an ethical source of crew...
While our ships may effectively be extensions of ourselves our ships still need some minimum amount of crew to operate. While many capsuleers seem satisfied with taking any hands looking for work... well, I feel that some level of deception must be going on here. No sane crewman would sign on with what he knew to be a suicidal mission... So, I believe that the standard operating procedure is to bind crew for whatever period is negotiated, and if a particular crewman happens to on-shift when the ship leaves dock to distract a sleeper drone, well, best of luck to him.
I can't countenance that sort of thing for my personal crew but I'm at a loss for what sort of system could be a viable replacement. Total automation is simply too expensive, and ethical debates aside, vitoc-addled slaves seem somewhat... untrustworthy.
The only system I can think of is to negotiate with planetary penal systems, taking convicts sentenced for life imprisonment or execution, and offering the convicts freedom somewhere far away if they serve as my crew for long enough.
It's win-win all around, I think. Anybody else got a better suggestion?
Shady gentleman with a plan
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Tristan Valentina
Moira.
Villore Accords
121
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 19:25:39 -
[2] - Quote
Danger pay, escape pods, a good damage control unit, and a solid contract establishing next of kin. Seems to work pretty well for my needs and I don't need to employ criminals. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
1611
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 19:26:33 -
[3] - Quote
How about perfectly standard high risk, high pay contracts and don't do the suicidal crap? They all know what they're getting into and they roll their dice. I'll do what I can to nudge them towards a favorable roll, but if they come up snake eyes that's just how it is and those guys knew their odds. |
Utari Onzo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1663
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 19:36:31 -
[4] - Quote
You title the post 'ethical sourcing' then try to put obviously ethical questions aside.
Quote: and ethical debates aside, vitoc-addled slaves seem somewhat... untrustworthy
What is and is not ethical is entirely subjective to the person involved. So you are asking for advice, but already seem to have your ideal solution. You speak of wanting to 'ethically source' your crew, but deem other options 'unethical' from the outset, so, I'm not sure what you wish to achieve here.
Did you want an argument over what is and is not a better ethical solution or would you rather I simply tell you where the nearest penal facility is that'll offer you the crew you want?
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 19:45:07 -
[5] - Quote
Well, if my plans go through, an unfortunate side-effect will be an inability to avoid associating with criminals, anyway.
The suggestions I've received are all well and good, but they still seem to prey on those desperate enough to throw in with a capsuleer already.
I may not end up with the cleanest hands when I'm done, but I'll be damned if I didn't endeavor to plunge them all the way into the muck!
Utari Onzo wrote:You title the post 'ethical sourcing' then try to put obviously ethical questions aside. Quote: and ethical debates aside, vitoc-addled slaves seem somewhat... untrustworthy What is and is not ethical is entirely subjective to the person involved. So you are asking for advice, but already seem to have your ideal solution. You speak of wanting to 'ethically source' your crew, but deem other options 'unethical' from the outset, so, I'm not sure what you wish to achieve here. Did you want an argument over what is and is not a better ethical solution or would you rather I simply tell you where the nearest penal facility is that'll offer you the crew you want?
Well, sir, you've cut through to the heart of my intent. Maybe I should have invested more time in crafting my post. I want to see what solutions others have to the issue at hand, and then to pick my own conclusions from the debris.
Shady gentleman with a plan
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Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
861
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 19:50:32 -
[6] - Quote
I don't really understand how sourcing from convicts is more ethical. You'll sleep easier at night because you've been conditioned to think of criminals as non-people, sure, but how is it not taking advantage of someone with severely reduced options and bargaining power on one side, then rewarding them with a circumvention of justice on the other? Hardly very ethical or moral at all.
Pay well. Pay death benefits. Psych test and audit for the suicidal and desperado cases.
The fight is mostly the last 0-300km in a logistics chain.
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Utari Onzo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1663
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 19:53:47 -
[7] - Quote
Informed choices. My solutions are informed choices.
My crew chiefs explicitly detail what being a capsuleer crew member entails. Those desperate to sign on are put through an intensive interview process, to judge their actual aptitude for the job at hand, while also being endowed with the knowledge of what the dangers are and what responsibilities are expected of them.
I don't want people signing on if they can't pull their weight, a barrage of mental health checks by my crew chiefs sorts out the keen from the plain suicidal. I don't want people signing on without knowing the risks either, being taught in vivid detail exactly what the chances of survival are for them for each particular posting, along with the conditions of requirement for their next of kin to get insurance pay outs, leaves no stone unturned.
You cannot argue those who fly under me didn't know what they were getting in for, didn't have a choice given the door was right there to walk out of, and didn't get something in return. I consider giving my crew a comprehensive and informed choice far better then picking up the dredges of society, saying they get a chance to walk free if they roll the dice and finding out one of them use their hard won freedom to murder another innocent soul, or break into another house, or **** another victim.
You might call it hand washing what I do, I call it pragmatism.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2117
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 20:07:25 -
[8] - Quote
I, for one, avoid ethical complications when recruiting ship crews, by recruiting solely from soulless abominations. Flesh golems created by the Infernal Machine that is the Takmahl Mass Cloning Device. Feed it several tonnes of planktonic biomass, receive a few hundred crewpersons, cloned from several stored mental patterns.
Sure, they have a tendency for prosopagnosic psychotic violent episodes, but hey, who doesn't ?
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 20:58:22 -
[9] - Quote
Utari, your insistence on being reasonable is both refreshing and irksome. You provide a solution that reflects the realities of plying the void and still ensures that the competent are willing to serve.
At the end of the day, though, when your ship gets shot to hell, any of your fine, upstanding crewmen that didn't have the good fortune to get to a pod will be just as dead as the hypothetical condemned whose executions I merely delayed.
Valerie Valate wrote:I, for one, avoid ethical complications when recruiting ship crews, by recruiting solely from soulless abominations. Flesh golems created by the Infernal Machine that is the Takmahl Mass Cloning Device. Feed it several tonnes of planktonic biomass, receive a few hundred crewpersons, cloned from several stored mental patterns.
Sure, they have a tendency for prosopagnosic psychotic violent episodes, but hey, who doesn't ?
Well, now, here's some out of the box thinking! Why not invest in the archaeotech cloning device?
I'm certain that a mental template could be found or created to create an unending army of willing crewmen. Though, the sunk costs seem kinds prohibitive. Archeological data on the device, components current methodolgies are unable to replicate, and burning through a few scientists to put it all together, (What was that booster called, again?) on top of the... discipline problem.
Still, when it's their turn to suck void, do they deserve it any less than Utari's carefully vetted crewmen? Or are they perfectly expendable?
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
862
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 21:10:33 -
[10] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:At the end of the day, though, when your ship gets shot to hell, any of your fine, upstanding crewmen that didn't have the good fortune to get to a pod will be just as dead as the hypothetical condemned whose executions I merely delayed.
I suppose if everyone involved is firmly tied to the trolley tracks already, it's all very easy to reason about. Have you considered joining ALXVP?
The fight is mostly the last 0-300km in a logistics chain.
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Utari Onzo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1664
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 21:12:20 -
[11] - Quote
Amazing you hinge the ethicality of your problem solely on the point of 'people die'. People die all the time. It seems your issue of ethics is not letting "good" or "regular" people die despite many, many, many life choices available to any and all resulting in plenty of deaths of "regular" people.
Yes, it's sad when they die under my command. It's also sad when they die on someone's watch, or when they die from a completely avoidable problem like crossing the path of a large moving object because they were too busy to look. It's also sad when they die, old and infirm because they didn't save for retirement and the medical bills that follow.
It's all very sad....
Your version of ethical seems to hinge on getting the most expendable solution as according to your individual vision of 'expendable', and for as cheap as possible. Interesting choice of ethical.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2117
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 21:14:52 -
[12] - Quote
Utari. You're discussing ethics, with a guy who is wearing a jacket but no shirt.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Utari Onzo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1664
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 21:16:07 -
[13] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Utari. You're discussing ethics, with a guy who is wearing a jacket but no shirt.
Amazingly I almost took this for a valid point. Thanks for the chuckle, I needed it badly right now.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 21:30:21 -
[14] - Quote
Well, Utari, of course I'm basing the question on "people die". I'm of the opinion that signing on with a capsuleer is Russian roulette at best. Which means that, when it comes to judging potential hires, "Doesn't deserve it" is something that shouldn't be overlooked.
Since nobody really deserves it, though, I have to look for some sort of compromise. If capsuleer crewmen is a death sentence, well, it seems to me that serving time aboard one of my vessels and somehow surviving counts as time served.
Valerie, you've got a point. I can't deny that I'm a fugitive from the fashion police.
Finally, Jev Firstly, what did you mean by that, and secondly, tell me more about this Alexylva Paradox...
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3359
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 21:40:32 -
[15] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:I must make an admission: I've not been a capsuleer captain for long. However, I've not been ignorant of the goings-on in the heavens. I have ambitions, and I have plans. Related to those plans is establishing an ethical source of crew.
Well, I think it's a good thing that you want to be ethical. That seems pretty tautological, but you might be surprised to learn how many folks don't care about ethics if it gets in the way of their profit margin. So, on that front, I'm glad to see you've got good intentions, at least.
Quote:While many capsuleers seem satisfied with taking any hands looking for work... well, I feel that some level of deception must be going on here. No sane crewman would sign on with what he knew to be a suicidal mission... So, I believe that the standard operating procedure is to bind crew for whatever period is negotiated, and if a particular crewman happens to on-shift when the ship leaves dock to distract a sleeper drone, well, best of luck to him.
The standard procedure in Goonswarm is much the same as it is in the rest of the cluster. As has been mentioned, pay rates on combat vessels already factor in 'hazard pay', as well as usually including KIA/AD&D insurance policies for the crew's families. Additionally, most ships maintain lifeboats for the baseliner crew, though of course these can be a less than optimal solution in the case of your hull being destroyed in a single volley, or the lifeboats launching into titan-scale smartbombs.
Now, while I understand you look at the 'pay them enough to make it worth the risk' as taking advantage of desperation, I'd ask you to consider that position a little more thoroughly. In order to get that pay, these individuals need to have a very specialized set of skills. The kinds of tasks that don't need those skills? They're already automated on most capsuleer vessels (yes, including Matari hulls). They're run via the pod interface, as effectively taking the place of the autonomous systems of the human body.
As a result, you're talking about a population of skilled workers who have options. Lots of options. They could crew a freighter. They could crew baseliner exploration, trade, or tourism ships. They could sign on with the local customs forceGÇöit's not perfectly safe, but it's pretty damned close to it. Or they could almost certainly find employment on stations, citadels, and other fixed space installations. Failing that, most of them can probably do technical work in the industries that support space-faring combat vessels.
The point is, they have options. They have a fair number of options. If they were desperate, we wouldn't need to offer hazard pay. Instead, we've got to offer enough money that these individualsGÇöwhom we need to be intelligent and motivatedGÇöchoose to sign on to crew our ships, knowing the risks, open-eyed, and ready to go.
Incidentally, I don't know about operations in your section of space, but in Delve, I don't undock without all four shifts aboard. You never know when you're going to be in space for an extended period of time, dreaming up apocalyptic poetry and complaining about an itchy hull.
As for vitoc-addicted slaves... even if I were willing to ignore the ethical implications of not getting those people to treatment and shooting the person I found them with right square in the head... no. Every performance evaluation I've seen says that free men and women who have a reason to want to go home again do the job better, faster, and more efficiently.
Also, I don't have to shoot myself in the head for slaving. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3359
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 21:47:54 -
[16] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:Well, Utari, of course I'm basing the question on "people die". I'm of the opinion that signing on with a capsuleer is Russian roulette at best. Which means that, when it comes to judging potential hires, "Doesn't deserve it" is something that shouldn't be overlooked.
Since nobody really deserves it, though, I have to look for some sort of compromise.
I'd argue that, in fact, everyone serving on a combat vessel deserves it. Doesn't matter why you're there, you're there, and you're participating in ending other human lives. You're benefitting from the wholescale slaughter of millions by being part of the capsuleer economyGÇöeven if you're just part of that well-paid crew.
So, yeah. We all got it coming.
Quote:
If capsuleer crewmen is a death sentence
I have a number of hulls that have been fully crewed for longer than a standard crew contract's tour length. I'm not even close to alone in that. So I don't think it's fair to say serving on a capsuleer's ship is a death sentence. Only that it's a risk. |
Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.02 21:58:58 -
[17] - Quote
Damn it, Arrendis, if you're not persuasive. I'm on the verge of conceding.
Before I admit my obvious defeat, though, I'm wondering if the conservative Amarr contigent has anything to say on the matter.
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Mengyao Chemineau
Sanxing Yi
39
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 00:06:20 -
[18] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Utari. You're discussing ethics, with a guy who is wearing a jacket but no shirt.
Hey now.
****, I have a shirt in my current pic. Maybe I should fix that. |
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
430
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 00:19:40 -
[19] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Now, while I understand you look at the 'pay them enough to make it worth the risk' as taking advantage of desperation, I'd ask you to consider that position a little more thoroughly. In order to get that pay, these individuals need to have a very specialized set of skills. The kinds of tasks that don't need those skills? They're already automated on most capsuleer vessels (yes, including Matari hulls). They're run via the pod interface, as effectively taking the place of the autonomous systems of the human body.
As a result, you're talking about a population of skilled workers who have options.
This isn't always true. Some recruitment programs for capsuleer crew pools offer scholarships that give people that education on the condition that they have to serve a certain number of tours in capsuleer crews. If they survive those required tours, then they have options. Until then, they are desperate. The numbers needed to keep our ships crewed at all times in all places - and the known risks of the job - mean that there are lots of "hiring agencies" doing whatever it takes to supply that economic demand. |
Vlad Cetes
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
107
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 01:21:28 -
[20] - Quote
To True Slave Foundations:
What % of your crew are sourced from Nation? How many True Slaves? |
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
118
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 01:36:18 -
[21] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Utari. You're discussing ethics, with a guy who is wearing a jacket but no shirt.
He didn't ask for this...
~~~~~
On topic though, I reckon I've done pretty well at keeping many of my crews alive, despite them all being willing to die for their Goddess of the Hottest! Having literally hundreds upon hundreds of fanatics willing to devote their lives to skills I can utilise on my ships and even willing to die in honour of me? It's pretty sexy to be honest.
But the supreme irony is that actually most of my crews live peaceful lives and only a few actually get to martyr themselves for me in a glorious explosion, before embracing the void. I have a habit I've picked up over the years of using damage controls on any ships larger than destroyers and only the most devoted get to die in such proximity to me, as a frigate can give.
But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose GÖÑ
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2376
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 02:23:47 -
[22] - Quote
Personally, I crew all my ships with exotic dancers....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
118
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 02:30:22 -
[23] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Personally, I crew all my ships with exotic dancers....
I save them for my personal quarters... surely the new skill set would put them in a more technically skilled profession description?
I wonder how many exotic dancers die on a daily basis in New Eden...
But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose GÖÑ
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3360
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 03:30:14 -
[24] - Quote
Kolodi Ramal wrote:This isn't always true. Some recruitment programs for capsuleer crew pools offer scholarships that give people that education on the condition that they have to serve a certain number of tours in capsuleer crews. If they survive those required tours, then they have options. Until then, they are desperate. The numbers needed to keep our ships crewed at all times in all places - and the known risks of the job - mean that there are lots of "hiring agencies" doing whatever it takes to supply that economic demand.
Then maybe instead of using unscrupulous headhunters, you should do what responsible and intelligent pilots do: Assign the task of managing the crew to the XO of the vessel, establish clear rules for how you expect him or her to staff the necessary berthings, and stop being lazy about crap and outsourcing the operation of your vessel to agencies who'll give you substandard crew and prey on children. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2330
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 05:36:49 -
[25] - Quote
I tend to substitute flesh and blood crew with automation systems (with redundancies) and drones wherever I can. For instances where flesh-and-blood requirements area unavoidable, I make sure to drill them very extensively on evacuation procedures on top of their SOPs and insist that when the klaxon starts ringing, get to the escape pods, do emergency repairs remotely and no playing hero. Heroics will result in cuts in posthumous pay remitted to their families.
I am still in the process of eliminating the need for flesh-and-blood crew members entirely. Progress has been stalled, unfortunately.
Also, I made it a point for the recruiters to review the crew hopeful's backgrounds both personal and professional to determine if they are of much better use anywhere that isn't the ship. It is a waste to squander any other talents they might have on a starship that will see much action.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 06:22:26 -
[26] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:I tend to substitute flesh and blood crew with automation systems (with redundancies) and drones wherever I can. For instances where flesh-and-blood requirements area unavoidable, I make sure to drill them very extensively on evacuation procedures on top of their SOPs and insist that when the klaxon starts ringing, get to the escape pods, do emergency repairs remotely and no playing hero. Heroics will result in cuts in posthumous pay remitted to their families.
I am still in the process of eliminating the need for flesh-and-blood crew members entirely. Progress has been stalled, unfortunately.
Automation would be the optimal solution, but it simply isn't feasible in the current climate, both technological and economic. Creating a totally automated ship requires extensive customization of existing hulls, or intensive reworking of the blueprints at the start. The systems themselves are expensive, inefficient compared to crewmen, and even ultra-conservative redundancies can't anticipate all the different failure states ship systems can encounter.
Even if such systems could be implemented successfully, the capsuleers that field them would still have to contend with capsuleers that don't, and in the battle of the bottom line, the latter has the advantage over the former.
Until the technology is available to address these concerns, we're stuck with this sticky situation. Your efforts are commendable, however.
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2330
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 06:28:34 -
[27] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:I tend to substitute flesh and blood crew with automation systems (with redundancies) and drones wherever I can. For instances where flesh-and-blood requirements area unavoidable, I make sure to drill them very extensively on evacuation procedures on top of their SOPs and insist that when the klaxon starts ringing, get to the escape pods, do emergency repairs remotely and no playing hero. Heroics will result in cuts in posthumous pay remitted to their families.
I am still in the process of eliminating the need for flesh-and-blood crew members entirely. Progress has been stalled, unfortunately.
Automation would be the optimal solution, but it simply isn't feasible in the current climate, both technological and economic. Creating a totally automated ship requires extensive customization of existing hulls, or intensive reworking of the blueprints at the start. The systems themselves are expensive, inefficient compared to crewmen, and even ultra-conservative redundancies can't anticipate all the different failure states ship systems can encounter. Even if such systems could be implemented successfully, the capsuleers that field them would still have to contend with capsuleers that don't, and in the battle of the bottom line, the latter has the advantage over the former. Until the technology is available to address these concerns, we're stuck with this sticky situation. Your efforts are commendable, however.
The technology is available but the will to implement them to the ends of fabbing a fully crew-independent starship larger than a frigate isn't, hence the stunted development in this area.
I am in the process of remedying this. If you like, I could send over an overview on how I plan to achieve this.
While individual self-repairing components are already fabbed and stress-tested, the drones aren't ready and the starship prototypes haven't been planned on yet. The drones are currently my biggest headache since their development involved using processor architecture that hasn't been used for drone controls (ternary logic systems heavily used by the Caldari) extensively by anyone but the Guristas. The Guristas themselves are, well, less than cooperative in providing the publication to assist in the development of such drones.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
430
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 08:19:06 -
[28] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Then maybe instead of using unscrupulous headhunters, you should do what responsible and intelligent pilots do: Assign the task of managing the crew to the XO of the vessel, establish clear rules for how you expect him or her to staff the necessary berthings, and stop being lazy about crap and outsourcing the operation of your vessel to agencies who'll give you substandard crew and prey on children.
I don't use those agencies and I never have. I apologize for being unclear. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
2332
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 09:07:22 -
[29] - Quote
Also, another note about automation: There hasn't been a single essential module in a capsuleer vessel that's hand-operated for at least a century now. Gunnery/Missilery has been operated by auto-loaders, targeting computers, fire control directors and feed mechanisms. Shields emission systems are computer-controlled, same with power grid management, propulsions, drone launchers and retrieval arms, damage control (to some extent), armour repair and integrity management, sensors systems, tactical suite, and, well, that's just about it.
The crew we do have running around had always been there to ensure that all of these are in proper working condition at all times. In other words, maintenance tasks. You will be surprised how quickly and easily these machines break down, at least in a standard capsuleer vessel.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
211
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 12:46:48 -
[30] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Personally, I crew all my ships with exotic dancers....
To perform as exotic dancers or to provide new career opportunities for those forced into exploitative professions out of a sense of desperation? |
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2377
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 12:56:08 -
[31] - Quote
Halcyon Ember wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Personally, I crew all my ships with exotic dancers.... To perform as exotic dancers or to provide new career opportunities for those forced into exploitative professions out of a sense of desperation?
Yes.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote:
I wonder how many exotic dancers die on a daily basis in New Eden...
A lot.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
211
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Posted - 2017.05.03 14:35:38 -
[32] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Halcyon Ember wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Personally, I crew all my ships with exotic dancers.... To perform as exotic dancers or to provide new career opportunities for those forced into exploitative professions out of a sense of desperation? Yes.
I think I like you |
Evangeline Pserad
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 14:53:20 -
[33] - Quote
Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote:Valerie Valate wrote:Utari. You're discussing ethics, with a guy who is wearing a jacket but no shirt. He didn't ask for this... ~~~~~ On topic though, I reckon I've done pretty well at keeping many of my crews alive, despite them all being willing to die for their Goddess of the Hottest! Having literally hundreds upon hundreds of fanatics willing to devote their lives to skills I can utilise on my ships and even willing to die in honour of me? It's pretty sexy to be honest. But the supreme irony is that actually most of my crews live peaceful lives and only a few actually get to martyr themselves for me in a glorious explosion, before embracing the void. I have a habit I've picked up over the years of using damage controls on any ships larger than destroyers and only the most devoted get to die in such proximity to me, as a frigate can give.
Kinky <3 |
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
927
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 15:52:46 -
[34] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:tell me more about this Alexylva Paradox... Allow me to do so:
We provide clones for our crews. When they die, most of them will return to life after some time (there is a delay because we have a biomass shortage).
We are lucky enough that our losses are quite low, or this may not have been possible.
Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation
Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 16:42:52 -
[35] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:Dusklit Thistle wrote:tell me more about this Alexylva Paradox... Allow me to do so: We provide clones for our crews. When they die, most of them will return to life after some time (there is a delay because we have a biomass shortage). We are lucky enough that our losses are quite low, or this may not have been possible.
Yes, I've done a little digging after I asked my question. The multiple and divergent transhumanist projects going on in the Origin system seem... radical.
As far as the topic as concerned, providing cloning services for crews is, from my standpoint, incredible.
I don't pretend to be an expert regarding cloning technologies, but I do know a little. How do you do it? Rework capsuleer implants to create pseudo-capsuleers? Use a buffered version of dropsuit soldiers' CRU? Maybe you've even reverse-engineered Nation tech...
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
2125
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 16:45:46 -
[36] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:we have a biomass shortage
Aren't there 4 temperate planets in that system ?
How are you managing to have a shortage of biomass then ?
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
214
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 16:53:49 -
[37] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Che Biko wrote:we have a biomass shortage Aren't there 4 temperate planets in that system ? How are you managing to have a shortage of biomass then ?
Maybe none of the planets support tall people |
Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 17:42:16 -
[38] - Quote
More digging. Apparently, the government of Origin uses non-destructive scanning techniques to create a database of backups for over 80% of the population.
Sounds imprecise, compared to the instantaneous burn-scan of the TBS pods are equipped with. And, of course the complications that arise from using old backups...
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
3155
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 17:55:32 -
[39] - Quote
I do not care about ethical side of the problem, but I do care about the convenience.
My crewmembers are professionals trained to maximize ship combat ability. They are military personnel who realize that they are going to war, who are ready to sacrifice their own lives for the State and commit suicide to prevent being taken captive by Gallente forces.
I am responsible for them and I will do whatever I can to make the gallentean oppressors ship to blow up to kill their crewmembers, and to return mine alive home.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Syenna Celeste
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
65
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 17:56:43 -
[40] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:
Sounds imprecise, compared to the instantaneous burn-scan of the TBS pods are equipped with. And, of course the complications that arise from using old backups...
Arguably a fate worse than death.
Personally I think that the crew aboard my ships are the lucky ones. They get to experience godhood, admittedly secondhand. And they're definitely in a safer place than most of the population of the cluster.
Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 18:05:16 -
[41] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
My crewmembers are professionals trained to maximize ship combat ability. They are military personnel who realize that they are going to war, who are ready to sacrifice their own lives for the State and commit suicide to prevent being taken captive by Gallente forces.
Alas, Kim, I don't have access to such patriots because I'm not one myself. I'm not going to be doing much more work for the State, I'm afraid, as they've used me a bit too much.
I'm a man of my word, though, and I'll discharge the remaining contracts I do have, but once that is done, so am I, and I'm leaving to greener pastures.
Along with as many like-minded crew as I can get my hands on.
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
3156
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 18:17:18 -
[42] - Quote
Syenna Celeste wrote:Dusklit Thistle wrote:
Sounds imprecise, compared to the instantaneous burn-scan of the TBS pods are equipped with. And, of course the complications that arise from using old backups...
Arguably a fate worse than death. Personally I think that the crew aboard my ships are the lucky ones. They get to experience godhood, admittedly secondhand. And they're definitely in a safer place than most of the population of the cluster. Syenna Celeste wrote:They get to experience godhood Syenna Celeste wrote:godhood
Something makes me worried about their safety. Something so transcendental, that I don't think I can gather words to explain.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2380
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 18:26:16 -
[43] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Syenna Celeste wrote:Dusklit Thistle wrote:
Sounds imprecise, compared to the instantaneous burn-scan of the TBS pods are equipped with. And, of course the complications that arise from using old backups...
Arguably a fate worse than death. Personally I think that the crew aboard my ships are the lucky ones. They get to experience godhood, admittedly secondhand. And they're definitely in a safer place than most of the population of the cluster. Syenna Celeste wrote:They get to experience godhood Syenna Celeste wrote:godhood Something makes me worried about their safety. Something so transcendental, that I don't think I can gather words to explain.
Have to admit though, it isn't bad propaganda for recruiting crewmembers....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
118
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 18:52:26 -
[44] - Quote
Syenna Celeste wrote:Personally I think that the crew aboard my ships are the lucky ones. They get to experience godhood, admittedly secondhand. And they're definitely in a safer place than most of the population of the cluster.
I knew you'd be one of my favourites in the boardroom!
Claudia Osyn wrote:Have to admit though, it isn't bad propaganda for recruiting crewmembers....
Indoctrin... er ha ha, er... recruitment is my speciality among baseliners! Who could resist my charms... my beauty... my offer of unlimited power through proximity...
But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose GÖÑ
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2380
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 20:05:26 -
[45] - Quote
Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote:Syenna Celeste wrote:Personally I think that the crew aboard my ships are the lucky ones. They get to experience godhood, admittedly secondhand. And they're definitely in a safer place than most of the population of the cluster. I knew you'd be one of my favourites in the boardroom! Claudia Osyn wrote:Have to admit though, it isn't bad propaganda for recruiting crewmembers.... Indoctrin... er ha ha, er... recruitment is my speciality among baseliners! Who could resist my charms... my beauty... my offer of unlimited power through proximity...
Quite the talent, to be sure.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 20:41:28 -
[46] - Quote
We live in a time where swords are costlier than the hands to wield them. I just commissioned a merlin. Took half of my wallet... for the raw materials. Crew? Crew's cheap.
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3682
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 21:08:19 -
[47] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:We live in a time where swords are costlier than the hands to wield them. I just commissioned a merlin. Took half of my wallet... for the raw materials. Crew? Crew's cheap.
Also small, for a Merlin.
(Also, the hands that will wield that Merlin are really, really expensive.)
(That would be you, pilot. The crew's basically a necessary component in the sword.)
For me, crew is ... complicated.
I don't worry too much about who they are or where they're from, though I do have my staff use hiring guidelines written not to take advantage of the more abusive parts of the system. Occasionally, when a ship's slated for especially dangerous duty, I'll do something to kind of flag it so that people don't just walk on board a destroyer Caracal thinking they're going to be on anti-frigate duty or running low-tier missions against conventional ships, when actually we're going up against the Drifters.
Aside from that, I kind of leave crew to themselves. It's not quite that I don't care what paths brought them into contact with mine; it's more that if I accept my role, I can't really set myself up to have sentiment messing with my ability to do my job.
It's not good to just forget about them, either, but, aside from making sure I'm not being awful aside from being the person who's very possibly going to be responsible for their deaths, I don't fraternize or really get involved at all. |
Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
122
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 21:09:15 -
[48] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:Anybody else got a better suggestion?
Dusklit Thistle wrote:We live in a time where swords are costlier than the hands to wield them. I just commissioned a merlin. Took half of my wallet... for the raw materials. Crew? Crew's cheap.
Welcome to the "admitting baseliners are cheap" club, wretch... Now you just have to spend months to years in the pod agonising over a justification for the lives you risk and sacrifice every day - just like all the others who haven't accepted the truth of their own godhood!
Hah!
...Only when we have become the true and sole Masters of our destiny, can we build ourselves higher than the gods before.
May the souls of millions be our currency to that divinity!
But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose GÖÑ
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 21:14:40 -
[49] - Quote
Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote:
Welcome to the "admitting baseliners are cheap" club, wretch...
That was a bitter observation, Mebrith, not a concession.
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
123
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 23:01:04 -
[50] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote:
Welcome to the "admitting baseliners are cheap" club, wretch...
That was a bitter observation, Mebrith, not a concession.
Huh? Oh I didn't say that... SHE did.
She also seems really bitter, especially regarding people caring about non-capsuleers - "baseliners" she called them?... such a cruel term to use...
It's funny really as I tend to keep many of my larger crews alive - in some form or other - as I said earlier in this discussion. Gallente culture should have inspired in me a greater collection of shoes, but, well, I wear spaceships and I like lots of different styles and designs, so many of my crews haven't even seen me for years.
I believe I have an Apocalypse crew in Amod who have founded their own civilisation on board the ship, and worship me now as an eternal spirit floating among the stars of the Genesis Region! The crew in my Zealot in Stain have probably become a hivemind AI structured society by now, since it has been so long since I was there... Don't even ask about the city-state politics of the crews of my various recon ships in Sinq!
Seriously dude, forget about a ships crew for a few years and you could write a thesis on their sociological metamorphisms in the years after.
But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose GÖÑ
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
799
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 23:02:38 -
[51] - Quote
Slaves.
/thread |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
2144
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 23:20:09 -
[52] - Quote
Basically I make sure my crew are fully certificated in remote multi-purpose mech drine operation via RealTouch Holo-feedback units from inside a safety pod.
After that and most importantly I check that they look good in skintight leather flight suits. |
Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 23:37:22 -
[53] - Quote
Mebrith, have you considered reviewing a training course in infomorph Psychology? You... you may find it... beneficial...
Nauplius wrote:Slaves.
/thread
Well, I was waiting for the input from the conservative Amarr contigent, and I believe I just got it.
So, I'm forced to concede that standard crew sourcing practices, for the most part, aren't as coercive as I believed. Nonstandard practices, of course, can leave much to be desired.
I'm still going to invest some effort in determining the feasibility of penal work-release programs. Giving people who otherwise cannot otherwise progress in life training and steady work might be what they need for a fresh start, and takes pressure off of potentially overloaded planetside penal systems
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3686
|
Posted - 2017.05.03 23:52:33 -
[54] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:Nauplius wrote:Slaves.
/thread Well, I was waiting for the input from the conservative Amarr contigent, and I believe I just got it.
No, no, Mr. Nauplius represents the reactionary, as in, so old school as to be pre-Moral Reforms, Amarr contingent. (For reference, that's a few thousand years.) (And he represents a vision of a lost past that probably never existed the way he imagines it to begin with.) He's considered a heretic by the Amarr, and apparently even by some Sani Sabik.
What you're probably thinking of as conservative Amarr (I've yet to find an Amarr who was comfortable being identified as anything else) would be the orthodox, so, maybe, Lady Admiral Newelle? Or a lot of other members of PIE.... |
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
800
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 00:50:55 -
[55] - Quote
If there were in fact any active conservative Imperial Loyalist pilots, their answer would still be "slaves". Most remaining Imperial Loyalist pilots, however, are quite liberal, even radical. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
3157
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 20:01:09 -
[56] - Quote
Some people will consider using slaves unethical. Some people will consider using slaves ethical. Some would even consider vitoc-ed slaves as ethical. It is just what our culture teaches us and there is NO single answer of whether a certain type of crewmember is ethical or not - everyone will have different opinion.
But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers.
And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Anshar Incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
125
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 06:44:31 -
[57] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking.
Just use more!
I'm joking. Slavery is bad. This is why I prefer to indoctrinate the slaves I'm given by the Covenant, Kingdom, and - dare I say it - the Amarr Empire in the past.
I believe only the truly fervent acolytes can do the job of several people. And they do it with such pride for their Goddess!
Slaves should be free!
Free to worship and work for who they choose!
...
...So long as that's me...
But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose GÖÑ
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Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
258
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Posted - 2017.05.05 07:07:04 -
[58] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:If there were in fact any active conservative Imperial Loyalist pilots, their answer would still be "slaves". Most remaining Imperial Loyalist pilots, however, are quite liberal, even radical.
Nah, I'd have to pay to buy slaves. CONCORD provides me with crewmembers for free! Maybe because they aren't my property, but they are in a lease.
((
If you are a roleplayer, please join official CCP channels ingame for roleplayers and support roleplaying community:
Intergalactic Summit - IC router
Out of Character - channel for discussion of roleplay, live events and lore
))
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Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
930
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 13:52:50 -
[59] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Aren't there 4 temperate planets in that system ?
How are you managing to have a shortage of biomass then ? Yes, there are 4 temperate planets in Origin.
One of those, Serendipity, enjoys quite some protection from exploitation because of its unique ecosystem in the oceans, and is largely unsettled.
Arboria also hosts an impressive ecosystem, and is also largely unsettled. The colonies are fairly constrained by the dangerous wildlife, and most of the population is forced to live within fenced in regions that have been cleared of predators.
Terminus also has a small population, and has similar challenges as on Arboria.
Things are easier on Rennaissance, but it's a lot of work building a colony, and our workforce is not unlimited.
Also, I'm not Sub-coordinator of the Biomass Division yet. 
Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation
Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
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Kumakatok
24th imperial crusade
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 14:25:39 -
[60] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers.
And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking.
That is not entirely true, Commander.
Those of us who serve as military crew are bred for that specific purpose. We do not require drugs or other methods of control for we are inspired by Faith, and seek to do service to God. Do not be misled by propaganda. It is not dissimilar to the dedication of Caldari crews to render honour and due service to their employers. We dedicate our lives to God and he chooses the worthy among us to share the eternal rewards of that faith.
In my case, that breeding has, through the grace of God, brought me to a capsuleer's duty. The crews assigned to me by my liege lord from his holding are highly competent, and passionate in their love for God and His plan for them. I pray that I may be proven worthy of their trust.
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2017.05.05 14:31:13 -
[61] - Quote
Kumakatok wrote:Diana Kim wrote:
But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers.
And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking.
That is not entirely true, Commander. Those of us who serve as military crew are bred for that specific purpose. We do not require drugs or other methods of control for we are inspired by Faith, and seek to do service to God. Do not be misled by propaganda. It is not dissimilar to the dedication of Caldari crews to render honour and due service to their employers. We dedicate our lives to God and he chooses the worthy among us to share the eternal rewards of that faith. In my case, that breeding has, through the grace of God, brought me to a capsuleer's duty. The crews assigned to me by my liege lord from his holding are highly competent, and passionate in their love for God and His plan for them. I pray that I may be proven worthy of their trust.
Well, now, when I asked for conservative Amarr, I didn't expect this particular viewpoint! I'm going to sit back and see how this develops.
Though, I must ask, whether your leige lords actually trust your crew's faith as entirely sufficient to keep them on board when you reach an independent dock...
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3697
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 14:35:16 -
[62] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:Well, now, when I asked for conservative Amarr, I didn't expect this particular viewpoint! I'm going to sit back and see how this develops.
Though, I must ask, whether your leige lords actually trust your crew's faith is entirely sufficient to keep them on board when you reach an independent dock...
For good or ill, there's a lot that can be done to guarantee continued service. Some of which you just saw. |
Kumakatok
24th imperial crusade
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 14:44:58 -
[63] - Quote
Dusklit Thistle wrote:Though, I must ask, whether your leige lords actually trust your crew's faith is entirely sufficient to keep them on board when you reach an independent dock...
Part of the selection for crews is faithfulness. You have read other captains speak of psychometric tests in their selection techniques. Presumably this weeds out unsuitable people like suicides, crew likely to panic at the first moment of stress, those with a penchant for theft or sabotage and so forth. It should not be hard to construe that Amarr pilots seek those of deep faith and dedication to God's cause.
There are, of course, occasional runners. They are usually caught, being unused to freedom of choice, and it so suddenly foisted upon them. Most crew, however, seek to glorify their bloodline and their God through their service, which reflects well on their family. In the same manner a Gallente crew member (for an example) may provide for their family through monetary insurances, a slave, through their service and martyrdom, provides infinitely greater blessings upon their children. |
Utari Onzo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1671
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 14:45:39 -
[64] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
What you're probably thinking of as conservative Amarr (I've yet to find an Amarr who was comfortable being identified as anything else) would be the orthodox, so, maybe, Lady Admiral Newelle? Or a lot of other members of PIE....
Harsh. You of all people should know I carry the 'insulting label' of Liberal like a badge of honour.
But I do conceed I'm conservative compared to many.. choice examples of faithful in certain border regions, and I'm a bit of an exception to the rule.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3697
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 15:01:07 -
[65] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:
What you're probably thinking of as conservative Amarr (I've yet to find an Amarr who was comfortable being identified as anything else) would be the orthodox, so, maybe, Lady Admiral Newelle? Or a lot of other members of PIE....
Harsh. You of all people should know I carry the 'insulting label' of Liberal like a badge of honour. But I do conceed I'm conservative compared to many.. choice examples of faithful in certain border regions, and I'm a bit of an exception to the rule.
Uh ... Utari, I of all people carry the 'insulting label' of heathen. I'm (still) religiously an Achur. I'm not over on the liberal side of the chart (to the degree "liberal/conservative" is even an axis on any diagram of Amarrian political leanings that you want to make sense-- or, rather, that you don't want to make everyone on the "liberal" side say, "WHAT?!" and everyone on the "conservative" side say "AHA!") because I'm not on the chart.
For.Eign.Er. Weird person with weird ideas about weird stuff. You of all people should ...
... you know, never mind. |
Utari Onzo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1672
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 16:56:47 -
[66] - Quote
I was killing two birds with one stone. First by pointing out I'm a rare example of an Amarr who does identify as something else. Second, thumbing my nose at the use of Liberal as a label of insult within the Empire.
It was not meant to be a point or a critique about insulting labels per se, so much as pointing out you know precisely one Amarrian who wouldn't immediatly identify as conservative.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3399
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 17:41:21 -
[67] - Quote
Kumakatok wrote:I pray that I may be proven worthy of their trust.
You poor, twisted bastard. I hope when you finally recognize the truth, it doesn't destroy you. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3707
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 21:37:17 -
[68] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:I was killing two birds with one stone. First by pointing out I'm a rare example of an Amarr who does identify as something else. Second, thumbing my nose at the use of Liberal as a label of insult within the Empire.
It was not meant to be a point or a critique about insulting labels per se, so much as pointing out you know precisely one Amarrian who wouldn't immediatly identify as conservative.
I see ... I misread and lost my temper. I'm sorry. |
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