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Ash Deckard	Posted - 2007.05.11 17:06:00 - [1] im gonna be coming up to heavy assault ships within the next few months and i just want to get some ideas for the Deimos and the Ishtar. Anyone got any preferences on one over the other? Also, any layout ideas would be helpful
Ash Deckard	Posted - 2007.05.11 17:10:00 - [2] o and this is what i came up with for the Deimos. if you have any suggestions.. High: 5x Heavy Electron Blaster II Medium Nos Med: Sensor Damp II 10MN MWD II X5 Web Low: Med armor repII Explosive hardener 2x DC II 2x Mag Stab
Kim kitori Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.05.11 17:15:00 - [3] Why do you have one sensor dampner and no scram? Whats DC? Damage control?
jbob2000 Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.11 17:16:00 - [4] 1 sensor damp is useless, you need a warp scram, you cant fit 2 DC II, electrons are crap. Ishtar is all round better, but takes longer to train for. ________________________________ KIA Recruitment
Segmentor Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.11 17:23:00 - [5] Thy are outclassed by the tier 2 BC by far. But if you really insist on using either, fit nos and ewar on the ishtar, and full neutron + mfs gank setup on the deimos.
Ash Deckard	Posted - 2007.05.11 17:24:00 - [6] alright, thanks. dampener dropped from plan.
Ash Deckard	Posted - 2007.05.11 17:27:00 - [7] Edited by: Ash Deckard on 11/05/2007 17:25:10 Originally by: Segmentor Thy are outclassed by the tier 2 BC by far. But if you really insist on using either, fit nos and ewar on the ishtar, and full neutron + mfs gank setup on the deimos. The command ships are definitely in the future for me, i just want to grab the heavy assaults ship while i train for them.
Kyodai Koga Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.11 17:35:00 - [8] Originally by: Ash Deckard o and this is what i came up with for the Deimos. if you have any suggestions.. High: 5x Heavy Electron Blaster II Medium Nos Med: Sensor Damp II 10MN MWD II X5 Web Low: Med armor repII Explosive hardener 2x DC II 2x Mag Stab If by DC you mean Damage control, you can only use one at a time so no need to put 2. Also, when the guy talks about tiers 2 BC, he's talking about myrmidon, drake, etc... not command ship Tiers 2 / tech 2 are different things
KaptnSparrow Caldari TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.05.11 18:25:00 - [9] i personally prefer deimos with a t2 ion blaster setup. Just fit it like a big thorax. --- we are open for applications convo me --- gonads are open for new members!
Totalitarian Discourse	Posted - 2007.05.11 18:39:00 - [10] The Deimos is a gravely underrated blaster ship that has a reputation as being only used in an uber-gank role. However, it is possible to both tank the ship and have a respectable damage output, from my research. My current setup is as follows: 5x Heavy Ion Blaster II [Void M] 1x Small Nosferatu II 1x Fleeting Web 1x Warp Disruptor II 1x 10mn MWD [this is an important fitting. T2 is good, faction is better if you can take the wallet hit] 1x MAR II 1x Active Explosive Hardener II 2x EANM II 1x 800mm Rolled Tungsten Plate 1x MFS II 1x Ancillary Current Router I [rig] 5x Hammerhead II [drones] With this setup, providing you don't Leeroy into a gang of nano-Huggins, will provide you with a non-trivial tank that will allow you to get out of Dodge should the situation merit. Realistically, I would only really ever use it for solo or small-gang PVP. A situation where it is likely to get primaried by a large number of heavy hitters is never ideal, 75-80%~ resists on 5k shields or not. Remember that the plate is going to limit your manoeuvrability somewhat over an already heavy ship (hey, they ain't called Heavy Assault Ships for nothing, right?) so don't expect Vagabond-esque acrobatics. This setup is very much a Very-Big-Enyo, but if you prefer something a bit more mindlessly heroic, fill your highs with Neutrons and lows with MFS's.

Ash Deckard	Posted - 2007.05.11 18:47:00 - [11] thanks, that layout really helped me out. ive always been curious about the ecm drones, are they worth it in a blaster type layout, or would it be better to stick with the hammerheads.
Captain Schmungles	Posted - 2007.05.11 20:18:00 - [12] Either ship is good, depends on whether you like drones or blasters more. Personally, I like the Ishtar, but the Deimos is also a very nice ship. The layouts depend on what you primarily want to do with them (pvp or pve), but I'd say that for the Ishtar a sensor booster can be a nice asset. Oh, and disregard the comment about tier 2 battlecruisers being better than HACs. Nine times out of ten, a HAC will rip a tier 2 battlecruiser to pieces. However, if you want to go for command ships, well, they are very, very nice ships
KaptnSparrow Caldari TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.05.11 20:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Totalitarian Discourse The Deimos is a gravely underrated blaster ship that has a reputation as being only used in an uber-gank role. However, it is possible to both tank the ship and have a respectable damage output, from my research. My current setup is as follows: 5x Heavy Ion Blaster II [Void M] 1x Small Nosferatu II 1x Fleeting Web 1x Warp Disruptor II 1x 10mn MWD [this is an important fitting. T2 is good, faction is better if you can take the wallet hit] 1x MAR II 1x Active Explosive Hardener II 2x EANM II 1x 800mm Rolled Tungsten Plate 1x MFS II 1x Ancillary Current Router I [rig] 5x Hammerhead II [drones] With this setup, providing you don't Leeroy into a gang of nano-Huggins, will provide you with a non-trivial tank that will allow you to get out of Dodge should the situation merit. Realistically, I would only really ever use it for solo or small-gang PVP. A situation where it is likely to get primaried by a large number of heavy hitters is never ideal, 75-80%~ resists on 5k shields or not. Remember that the plate is going to limit your manoeuvrability somewhat over an already heavy ship (hey, they ain't called Heavy Assault Ships for nothing, right?) so don't expect Vagabond-esque acrobatics. This setup is very much a Very-Big-Enyo, but if you prefer something a bit more mindlessly heroic, fill your highs with Neutrons and lows with MFS's. pretty close to my setup. Was able to tank a raven in it and hold it down till reinforcement arrived and killed it. I normally go with 2 x explosive hardeners and drop the plate. If possible upgrade the small nos to medium I would throw in 2 x cap recharge rigs to keep it all running for a long time. basically if target < 10km and no nos, you gonna kill it. --- we are open for applications convo me --- gonads are open for new members!
Kay Rissa Russian Thunder Squad	Posted - 2007.05.11 21:02:00 - [14] deimos suxx because it's too slow and too heavy so in my opinion the only choice is ishtar, which is definetly better then myrmidom. my setup: low: 3 overdrive t2, 1 nano t2, 1 local hull istab med: 10 mwd t2, 2 large shield extenders, omnidirectional tracking link (or 14-15k web), t2 warp disruptor (if u r rich 28k or 30k one) high: 3 dual 150 t2 rails, 1 med nos (corpum med a-type), drone link augmentor throw in some snakes and speed implants and u can go up to 6-7 k/s Proud member of RTSQ ps: i dont like to kill innocent ppl, so if i killed u, u rnt innocent
Prant	Posted - 2007.05.11 21:14:00 - [15] Ishtar is probably better than Myrmidon. But is it better than five Myrmidons? That's the real question. And if when I lose those five Myrmidons I can buy five more because they were insured for full value, and I can buy a Vexor with the insurance money from the Ishtar...hmmm... There's the problem.
king jks Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.11 21:22:00 - [16] Myrmidons are almost always going to be better than ishtars. More damage, more tank. Only thing ishtar does better is nano'ing, which is so pointless on a ship that can't nos its useless.
Prant	Posted - 2007.05.11 21:30:00 - [17] Well the Ishtar's drone bay does beat the heck out of the Myrmidon's, just to be fair. And if you're not a drone specialist you shouldn't even be talking about these ships.
Ione Hunt Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.05.11 21:30:00 - [18] If you PVP in a medium/large gang, go for the Deimos because of sick damage. Chances are you don't have to tank in larger gangs because you don't get called primary...the Deimos sucks at tanking. For solo and small gangs, use an Ishtar because it tanks better, doesn't require ammo, and you can fit EW. It's also a nice ship to PVE, because you can do up to 6/10 complexes, and even higher if you chose the right race for your resists _______________ random sig with a hot chick
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.05.11 21:44:00 - [19] Originally by: king jks Myrmidons are almost always going to be better than ishtars. More damage, more tank. Only thing ishtar does better is nano'ing, which is so pointless on a ship that can't nos its useless. Could someone please explain this too me. They can both use 5 bonused heavy drones. Both use guns (myrm has more but ishtar has a bonus and overall is not a huge amount of difference). Myrm can rep more but ishtar has higher resists. Also ishtar is faster. I can see reasons why people may use a myrm over an ishtar but I wouldn't have said it will always be better.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2007.05.11 22:04:00 - [20] A standard armor tanked tech2 Myrm will beat a standard armor tanked tech2 Ishtar in a close-up battle. Not only does the Myrm have the tank bonus, but it's applied to dual reps, AND has rig slots for 3 armor rigs. Just FYI a buddy did a 1v1 in his Myrm vs. an Ishtar and won easily. That said however, I'd take an Ishtar over a Myrm any day, but I'd fly it in a speed config, similar to Kay Rissa's setup.

Totalitarian Discourse	Posted - 2007.05.11 23:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Ione Hunt If you PVP in a medium/large gang, go for the Deimos because of sick damage. Chances are you don't have to tank in larger gangs because you don't get called primary...the Deimos sucks at tanking. For solo and small gangs, use an Ishtar because it tanks better, doesn't require ammo, and you can fit EW. It's also a nice ship to PVE, because you can do up to 6/10 complexes, and even higher if you chose the right race for your resists A decent FC will primary a Deimos, as most will have Battleship-esque DPS with no tank. Makes sense to take out 10~ seconds to take it out.
Ione Hunt Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.05.11 23:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Totalitarian Discourse Originally by: Ione Hunt If you PVP in a medium/large gang, go for the Deimos because of sick damage. Chances are you don't have to tank in larger gangs because you don't get called primary...the Deimos sucks at tanking. For solo and small gangs, use an Ishtar because it tanks better, doesn't require ammo, and you can fit EW. It's also a nice ship to PVE, because you can do up to 6/10 complexes, and even higher if you chose the right race for your resists A decent FC will primary a Deimos, as most will have Battleship-esque DPS with no tank. Makes sense to take out 10~ seconds to take it out. Depends on the situation. Often a good FC will go for EW ships first. And it's not like most gangs are lead by good FCs anyway _______________ random sig with a hot chick
laphroiag	Posted - 2007.05.11 23:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Totalitarian Discourse Originally by: Ione Hunt If you PVP in a medium/large gang, go for the Deimos because of sick damage. Chances are you don't have to tank in larger gangs because you don't get called primary...the Deimos sucks at tanking. For solo and small gangs, use an Ishtar because it tanks better, doesn't require ammo, and you can fit EW. It's also a nice ship to PVE, because you can do up to 6/10 complexes, and even higher if you chose the right race for your resists A decent FC will primary a Deimos, as most will have Battleship-esque DPS with no tank. Makes sense to take out 10~ seconds to take it out. Depends on the situation. Often a good FC will go for EW ships first. And it's not like most gangs are lead by good FCs anyway I agree. However, with the advent of the ECM-nerf and the stupidly-hull-tanked Scorpions that take half an hour and a station container's worth of ammo to pop, it's debatable whether it's pertinent to destroy the ECM ships, or merely damp them or force them to switch targets. In these cases, a small gank ship, within web range and with at best a mediocre tank seems a good bet for primary. This is why I never aggress on a gate before a primary's been picked in my Deimos.
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.12 04:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Morreia Originally by: king jks Myrmidons are almost always going to be better than ishtars. More damage, more tank. Only thing ishtar does better is nano'ing, which is so pointless on a ship that can't nos its useless. Could someone please explain this too me. They can both use 5 bonused heavy drones. Both use guns (myrm has more but ishtar has a bonus and overall is not a huge amount of difference). Myrm can rep more but ishtar has higher resists. Also ishtar is faster. I can see reasons why people may use a myrm over an ishtar but I wouldn't have said it will always be better. Saying it is "always" better is an exaggeration. There are definitely cases where the ishtar would be better if setup properly (pve, speed setups, etc.) Then again, the myrm costs a lot less, you could lose several before equalling the cost of an ishtar. So I would say neither is always going to outperform the other in every case. ------------- Stop whining.
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.12 06:47:00 - [25] Edited by: Benglada on 12/05/2007 06:45:29 Originally by: Morreia Originally by: king jks Myrmidons are almost always going to be better than ishtars. More damage, more tank. Only thing ishtar does better is nano'ing, which is so pointless on a ship that can't nos its useless. Could someone please explain this too me. They can both use 5 bonused heavy drones. Both use guns (myrm has more but ishtar has a bonus and overall is not a huge amount of difference). Myrm can rep more but ishtar has higher resists. Also ishtar is faster. I can see reasons why people may use a myrm over an ishtar but I wouldn't have said it will always be better. myrm can fit a full rack of guns, ishtar can fit three. (and realistically, due to pg, zero) --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.12 07:48:00 - [26] Edited by: LUKEC on 12/05/2007 07:47:13 Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Totalitarian Discourse Originally by: Ione Hunt If you PVP in a medium/large gang, go for the Deimos because of sick damage. Chances are you don't have to tank in larger gangs because you don't get called primary...the Deimos sucks at tanking. For solo and small gangs, use an Ishtar because it tanks better, doesn't require ammo, and you can fit EW. It's also a nice ship to PVE, because you can do up to 6/10 complexes, and even higher if you chose the right race for your resists A decent FC will primary a Deimos, as most will have Battleship-esque DPS with no tank. Makes sense to take out 10~ seconds to take it out. Depends on the situation. Often a good FC will go for EW ships first. And it's not like most gangs are lead by good FCs anyway And I have yet to see good blaster deimos use in gang bigger than 5. Same with astarte really. Blasters are good for ganking but in not too small gangs they are totally useless. A setup from long ago: 5x ions II, small nosf mwd, disruptor, web mar, explo hardener, eanm, 2x mf II, cap relay Now i'd simply fit 2 cap rigs & drop relay for dc/800mm plate and fit med nosf if it would fit. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Kay Rissa Russian Thunder Squad	Posted - 2007.05.12 10:50:00 - [27] if we r talking about typical nos-myrmidom vs nano-ishtar, then ishtar would win 99% time... kill 5 drones of myrmidom, orbit at 13-24 k and kill myrmidom. If myrmidom has a full rack of blasters then u can fly away. Proud member of RTSQ ps: i dont like to kill innocent ppl, so if i killed u, u rnt innocent
ArtemisEntreri Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.12 12:50:00 - [28] On the note of myrm vs ishtar, a good ishtar pilot will win because any droneboat v droneboat should be killing each other's drones and not focusing on the other one's ship and ishtar has both more drones and can dictate range. On topic tho, Ishtar is way better allaround and deimos is pointless atm due to nos and webs
Neo Rainhart Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.12 13:13:00 - [29] just my 2 iskies.. Deimos isnt worth the while if you aren't rich like Bill Gates. I myself flew a deimos for a nice while and i realized its pretty bad compared to other HAC's and tier 2 BC's. You will run out of cap 99% of the time and you really want to have a nos fitted, not to provide yourself with cap, but to counternos. So you need to fit electrons to get it to fit, or with a PG rig you can fit Ions and still have med repII/med nos. And the rig makes it even more pricy. Train drone int 5 and get an Ishtar and you will be much more succesfull, trust me. Or train for a Astarte (cap boosters ftw!). Also what ppl usually say about the deimos being slow was never a problem for me. and fitting plates on it increases survivability a lot, as long as it stays to 400mm's But if you are going for a deimos i would fit it like this Hi 5 x Ion II's 1 med nos Med scram,mwd,web Low MAR II Exp Hardener II Eanm II DCU II MFS II 400mm Rtt plates Ancillary current router I Capacitor Control circuit (Cap recharge keeps you alive a bit longer as its pretty good even without the rig) as for drones i would stick to Valkyries II's for some explosive dmg very bad Quality/Price on the deimos imho.
The Internets	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Kay Rissa if we r talking about typical nos-myrmidom vs nano-ishtar, then ishtar would win 99% time... kill 5 drones of myrmidom, orbit at 13-24 k and kill myrmidom. If myrmidom has a full rack of blasters then u can fly away. And whats stopping the Myrmidon from doing the same to the Ishtar's drones? Nano-Ishtar is far away from it's drones while the Myrm is right next to theirs killing yours. Myrm is also superior against close-range Nos setups because it can fit more Nos itself. It also tanks better properly fitted.



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