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Is End Game a myth?

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Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 361	Posted - 2017.05.16 17:59:02 - [1] - Quote I see in various forum threads, there is no end game, or this or that is end game. So I am curious, simply that and so I am asking the community to pass knowledge of this post to others they know. Question is: What do you consider end game? a few simple rules for this post. 1.) if you truly believe there is no true end game simply post "noeg" (for no end game, without the quotes of course) 2.) no need for a fully detailed explanation, a simple sentence or two should suffice, if you want to write a book make your own thread. 3.) try to keep things civil, obvious trolls, attempts to derail on purpose, ongoing arguments that get out of control I will ask ISD myself to start removing such when necessary. Personally, my answer to this question according to my simple rules would be: noeg
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 113	Posted - 2017.05.16 18:16:27 - [2] - Quote Wormhole corp kissing The Ring and becoming nullbears means "winning the game". Or so I heard. but jokes aside There is an endgame... and isn't. As in real life your endgame can be fulfilling a goal. Or a few. Getting specialized in an activity and becoming the best (or one of the few best) is what I'd call endgame. But if the goal is "try everything and be the best in everything", it's impossible to archive, so I would argue it doesn't exist.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 11043	Posted - 2017.05.16 18:26:33 - [3] - Quote Here's how I see it. EVE is essentially a sandbox. And in a sandbox each and every person decides for themselves what their endgame is. For some it might be having the most ISK. For others the highest kill efficiency. Or cornering the market for a region. Or most SP. Or having the largest corp. Or any of so many other metrics. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
oiukhp Muvila School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 198	Posted - 2017.05.16 18:36:34 - [4] - Quote The "End Game" is when you have become too bored with the existing gameplay and simply stop logging in. As for gameplay within the game, I see it more as a wheel. You start in someplace like Hi Sec and go to somewhere like, WH, Low Sec, or Null Sec, play there until you get bored, then go to one of the places you didn't already go and play a bit, and etc. You can also do the same for different careers. I started doing mainly pvp and mining, then went into invention, then PI. By the time I got into PI it wasn't really worth going back into the other careers due to the high saturation of existing players doing that. When CCP introduced all those industries they were very profitable for a while, then as more got into them, they became very competitive. Those who got into them each early on made a lot of isk, those who followed on made a lot less. So for many of the industries in this game, there has been no real reason to go back to them. And for many areas of this game, they haven't changed enough or I don't have the time to invest, like Null Sec or WHs. So, that is the "End Game" for me. It has become no longer fun or profitable to do nearly everything that you can do in this game, so I no longer play it. I just come back once in a while to see of CCP actually does something beyond the narrow vision they have had the last several years.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 11044	Posted - 2017.05.16 18:42:36 - [5] - Quote I forgot to mention. You are posting in my endgame. For me and many others, this place - General Discussion - it the pinnacle of EVE. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Eleonora Crendraven Global Communications AG 138	Posted - 2017.05.16 18:44:44 - [6] - Quote For me, there is no classic "endgame". I can have as much fun in EVE with a new toon just hours old as with one that is a few years old. It depends on what you want to do in EVE. New Eden is not a themepark but a sandbox - there is no "getting as fast as I can to maxlevel". And - it seems to me - that is a very good thing. https://twitter.com/gcAG_EVE http://eveboard.com/pilot/Eleonora_Crendraven GëíGïüGëí
Shawn en Tilavine Knights-of-Joo Reverberation Project 3	Posted - 2017.05.16 18:46:52 - [7] - Quote In Eve, the "end game" is whatever each player decides it is for him/her. For me, my daily end game is achieving my objectives while denying others the opportunity to use me to achieve their goals. It's a real kick, running a site or something and watching folks try to hunt you down, and then warping off right under their noses while they're still coming out of warp and there's nothing they can do about it. For Newbros like me, learning to stay alive can be a lot of fun. Oh, I still get killed now and again, but like any game of cat and mouse, you win some and you lose some. C'est la Vie! Respectfully submitted. *"The world ain't fair, there is no Santa Claus, and not everyone gets a F'n trophy just for showing up. Welcome to the real world. Welcome to Eve."*
Scialt Universal Sanitation Corporation 127	Posted - 2017.05.16 19:28:29 - [8] - Quote I'd view it as eve having multiple end-games. For example... in market trading there is probably a finite set of skills where you are on even footing with all the other market traders (other than your own personal ability to play the market). Once you get those skills, you have the same set of tools that everyone else has (at least for that one toon). To me that is similar to trying to grind up to level XX as quickly as possible so you can take part in that MMORPG's "end game" content. In both cases the other guys may have more stuff or better ability... but you're both maxed out in terms of skills. So there is a max trading skill level where you arrive at the end-game. There is a max mining skill set. There is a max manufacturing/research skill set. Achieving each of those puts you at the end-game for that activity. Combat skills... well that's a little different. Each fitting for each ship would have an "end-game" skill set (every skill that has any effect on the fitting for the ship you're running skilled up to V)... but I'm not sure how often people would actually do that. Many skills have exceptionally long training times to go from level 4 to 5... for the same incremental increase you got for each of the levels going to lvl 4. In a practical sense... being able to reship into a better ship against what you're facing is more valuable than getting some of those lvl 5's to "perfect" the skills for one ship. So... I would say there is a point where your character cannot be improved for what you're doing... which by definition is a sort of end game. But it takes so long to get there and you can get close enough to be competitive in a much shorter time that effectively the endgame isn't really played by many people.
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 3018	Posted - 2017.05.16 19:39:20 - [9] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: I forgot to mention. You are posting in my endgame. For me and many others, this place - General Discussion - it the pinnacle of EVE. Mr Epeen much better to go on the forums and tell other people to do stuff rather than do it yourself. Most other games have a quest chain that takes you through the game world and gives you some storyline where you level up your character and/or get better gear and end game is what you do when you have maxed your level, and pretty much just grind out some gear. This often leads to boredom as players typically beat content faster than devs can make it, they typically throw in some super grindy stuff that isn't of any actual importance because a lot of players will just do it without question. In eve you are perpetually leveling your character and gear rapidly becomes good enough, most pvp fits are mostly t2 maybe splurge on a faction item here or there, and pve stuff typically t2 guns with some faction damage mods and maybe a little shiny on the tank. the npc enemies are typically pretty boring and predictable. However in eve the players are always changing and we get patches every so often that nudge the fotm in a new direction. I'd consider a few activities end game pve, like burner missions, carrier ratting, high end ded complexes, incursions, and rorqual mining. All of these take some time to train into and some have some big start up costs. End game pvp is well a never ending and nearly undefined, we have all sorts of solo, small gang, and large scale fleet pvp options and heck most of it can be joined in at a very young character age. selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141 @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Issler Dainze Tadakastu-Obata Corporation 2688	Posted - 2017.05.16 21:04:26 - [10] - Quote OK, for me the end game was to form an alliance then move to null. But then it was to leave null and maybe wormhole. Then it was to get elected to the CSM. Now it is pointing out the way I think the CSM has lost its way. I thought it might be doing OK in the alliance tournament but now I sort of did that. I did see the claim that this forum is the end game and that is about the right amount of meta to maybe be the truth. Getting your Eve character in the world news turns out to not be the end game. I now believe the end game may be finally returning to the original Everquest. Wait, that isn't it! The end game is simple. That next thing you want to do is clearly your end game. When you run out of those you enter the bitter vet game phase and that eventually leads to your final encounter with the ultimate Eve MOB boss. The forum moderator and the perma-ban! :-) OK, maybe that isn't it. I am going to go back to the end game involves leaving Eve for good to play a different game. I'd suggest this one: The Stanley Parable
Cien Banchiere Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution 163	Posted - 2017.05.16 21:12:51 - [11] - Quote As there is no hard set end-game we know of, it's what your little heart desires. I have yet to figure out what mine will be. Hopefully live out the life of the server.
Kitsa Warcrows 23	Posted - 2017.05.16 21:25:55 - [12] - Quote end game every time you undock
Haile Korhal Professional Amateurs 45	Posted - 2017.05.16 21:31:09 - [13] - Quote Playing in the sandbox of Eve long enough to see it become a litterbox, that is the true end game. You can either scoop it every day, or... Well... Egregious Spreadsheet Services - For Spreadsheets as a Service to businesses, corporations, and higher, look no further!
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 793	Posted - 2017.05.16 21:42:04 - [14] - Quote End game? What end game? In sandbox? End game will be when I'll stop playing EvE. "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Defecanda Ice Mining Boys Requiem Eternal 55	Posted - 2017.05.16 21:52:44 - [15] - Quote Selling yourself on the streets to save up $24,000 USD Converting it to PLEX Selling PLEX for ISK Converting ISK to Skill Injectors Putting them all in one character for 450mil SP Feeling God-Like Lose Internet Connection and look around realizing you have no friends, your family left you and your crotch constantly itches (cuz you sold your body for $24,000 spent on a game) End real life clone without setting a home base Game Over *End Game* [i][b]CCP Zulu.....-á-á-á-á-á Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.-á[/b](i like to steal sigs)[/i]
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 1214	Posted - 2017.05.16 23:17:10 - [16] - Quote The so-called End Game in Eve is there, it's just not what the game defines it to be...it's what you define it to be. It's not like other story-driven games where you have one or multiple possible terminating points in the story resulting in a cut-scene that proceeds to pat you on the back for doing a good job then shows you rolling credits and returns you to some main menu. "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
oiukhp Muvila School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 201	Posted - 2017.05.16 23:17:37 - [17] - Quote Defecanda wrote: Selling yourself on the streets to save up $24,000 USD Converting it to PLEX Selling PLEX for ISK Converting ISK to Skill Injectors Putting them all in one character for 450mil SP Feeling God-Like Lose Internet Connection and look around realizing you have no friends, your family left you and your crotch constantly itches (cuz you sold your body for $24,000 spent on a game) End real life clone without setting a home base Game Over *End Game* The sound you heard after you clicked "post" was a "lead ballon".
HydrogenBond Shaishi C-H-C 10	Posted - 2017.05.17 00:40:58 - [18] - Quote The end game was Apocrypha. After that...just lipstick on pigs. You're dead to me->eve
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 1552	Posted - 2017.05.17 01:34:35 - [19] - Quote There is no typical end game as like all MMOs you can always just keep playing. The ultimate endgame is a personal one though where you have no more goals nor any desire to make more and you stop logging in. Ironically its much akin to Mid life crisis in real life, you just cant log out of real life, though some DO "check out" permanently. Have you heard anything I've said? You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? That's right. Had to end sometime.
mkint 1764	Posted - 2017.05.17 02:56:32 - [20] - Quote The end game is when you stop logging in. Even moreso if you still manage to play the game without logging in. Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 3738	Posted - 2017.05.17 04:50:57 - [21] - Quote I agree with a few folks above. You set goals and achieving them each has the potential to be end game OR you set a new goal. All in all> the end game is burnout. If you still have something to work for, towards, or people to work with for some common cause then you have not reached then end. If it is all 'been there done that and the other stuff looks stupid' then you are at end game or waiting for a new game to arive from the sands and present itself to you. m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Gregorius Goldstein Ze One Man Show 2551	Posted - 2017.05.17 07:09:08 - [22] - Quote You have to set your own goals in EVE. There is no "current final end boss" to beat. One man's endgame is an other man's intermediate milestone.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 4070	Posted - 2017.05.17 08:06:42 - [23] - Quote EVE is the endgame to all the other games which are just sad grinds and try (but fail) to prepare you for this ultimate experience. Sometimes when I look at other MMOs I just have to shake my head. Somehow people are so used to those ****** concepts they don't even question them anymore. The so called end-game or PvP experiences in those other titles are somehow completely separated from the actual game you start out with. Like it is some kind of attached minigame which has absolutely nothing to do with the sad grind you hat to endure to reach it. Also this PvP experiences are often just silly games like capture the flag or some arena team fight. Not sure why someone would grind weeks - months just to play a really cheap copy of capture the flag with some serious balancing issues which will obviously never even get addressed, because it is just a minigame anyway. And the really REALLY sad part is when those crippled souls then come here and demand that EVE conforms to their notions of how an MMO should workand don't understand how completely ridiculous they sound with their distorted view of what constitutes a fun game. In EVE there is no skill grinding, you set your goals and you play the real deal from day one. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Vipsan Agrippa Machine Gun Coitus 198	Posted - 2017.05.17 08:30:26 - [24] - Quote Sorry to bring out the girly poetry boys, but T. S. Eliot sums up the Eve end game quite well in the last part of: The Hollow Men Here we go round the prickly pear Prickly pear prickly pear Here we go round the prickly pear At five o'clock in the morning. Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow For Thine is the Kingdom Between the conception And the creation Between the emotion And the response Falls the Shadow Life is very long Between the desire And the spasm Between the potency And the existence Between the essence And the descent Falls the Shadow For Thine is the Kingdom For Thine is Life is For Thine is the This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper. Kurtz uses this poem to explain the Vietnam War in Coppola's "Apocalypse Now" - the adaptation of Conrads "Heart of Darkness". Fk Bob Praise Kek! - They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Alliances will rise and fall, but one constant in Eve is the smouldering dumpster that is C & P. (Bob's a cuck)
StonerPhReaK Herb Men 653	Posted - 2017.05.17 11:50:59 - [25] - Quote Every time i get close to the end game i kick over my sand castle and start rebuilding it again. Noeg. Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
Mollie Mormon Interstellar Consciousness 26	Posted - 2017.05.17 12:40:50 - [26] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Here's how I see it. Sir, you left out conquering the forums! *noeg
Alaric Faelen Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes 483	Posted - 2017.05.17 12:50:11 - [27] - Quote no end game There is a hard ceiling to any given bit of content, but you can change content. Technically that means that if you trained everything to V you hit 'end game', but that's not realistic for most people. So while I can fly almost every sub-cap in the game, I haven't even begun capitals. While I can run 2 industry jobs at a time, I could eventually run an industrial empire. Or build a sov alliance. Or.......
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 1605	Posted - 2017.05.17 14:46:31 - [28] - Quote End game for myself is getting in the right mood to look over and modify articles on Uniwiki or maybe write guides. I've only just started but considering how complicated and difficult it is to get started in this game I am starting to want to help people more and more without burning myself out of course. (maybe I still do?) I used to want to join an alliance and with my own corporation, take sovereign nullsec - maybe imitate being like a faction .. own an entire constellation somewhere. The closest I got to that was just taking it upon myself as a member of a renter alliance in Insmother but my alliance overlords didn't trust me enough to let me take it in the name of my former corporation Blue Aurochs and they made sure to put the structures down with the holding alliance. Which was too bad I think most of Eve has this mindset and for good reason obviously. Wish there was a good decentralized alliance somewhere and I had the time and the FC abilities .. and I also realized the mega-amount of comms and mandatory everything I can't even force on myself let alone others that it would take to do this so this dream is dead. @lunettelulu7
Sethyrh Nakrar Drake Mining and Acquisition Inc. 74	Posted - 2017.05.17 14:56:54 - [29] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: I see in various forum threads, there is no end game, or this or that is end game. So I am curious, simply that and so I am asking the community to pass knowledge of this post to others they know. Question is: What do you consider end game? Well. Its a Sandbox, so I have my own endgame. I know a guy who trades and does PVE in Highsec. Some like Lowsec, some like Nullsec. Creepy Wormholeguys* like wormholes. Endgame is what you wanna do. *CCP said that on the fanfest. Praise the Omnissiah!
Benje en Divalone 10	Posted - 2017.05.17 18:37:08 - [30] - Quote I am one of those "race to end-game" people. End game is when I reach the skill threshold that lets me participate in the group content I'm interested in with folks I choose to play with instead of the ones LFG picks for me. I have my own pace when burning through levelling content and I get frustrated if somebody has a noticeably different speed. Small group activities (dungeons) are ok-ish but I prefer larger (10-20+) group activities that aren't utterly braindead like most world boss fights. I've seen a number of scaling systems over the years. They work to an extent but typically they just modify how much damage and healing you can pump out and how many hit points you have. Scale down a max level and they'll probably have skills and even set bonuses that trivialize the content. Scale up a low level and they may be missing some critical skills (cc break, interrupt, etc.). But what about the journey? I play MMO's to be with people. If I wanted a story I'd read a book, watch a movie or play a single player game. EVE doesn't have one end-game, it has several. The ability to specialize lets me get there as fast or as slow as I want. Heck, my first week I joined a fairly successful low-sec roam (lost two Atrons ) All I need to figure out is how to PLEX 10+ accounts so I can do all the things
Maenth The Thirteen Provinces 42	Posted - 2017.05.17 19:54:25 - [31] - Quote End Game is when you have completed all of your primary goals/achievements to personal satisfaction. Drones. Drones are a means to an end. An end to the ruthless Caldari 'progress' machines. An end to the barbaric 'redemption' proposed by the Amarr. What they see as chaos shall be my perfect order, merely beyond their comprehension.
Tekkaa QuantumTech Industries League 0f Grumpy 0ld Farts 2	Posted - 2017.05.17 20:44:49 - [32] - Quote *noeg - there will always be something interesting to do , someone to meet, someone to train, someone to blow up. there is always a path to take and sometimes you can revisit old trails... see you in space
Orakkus Imperium Technologies Army of New Eden 361	Posted - 2017.05.17 21:36:39 - [33] - Quote So long as there are new players to interact with, there is no end game. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Khergit Deserters Crom's Angels 5080	Posted - 2017.05.18 01:10:59 - [34] - Quote I'd say Goons-Imperium won one kind of end game, and a really big one. CCP set nullsec up as a kind of Genghis Khan-Shaka Zulu-Oda Nobunaga territorial conquest danger zone zone. When the sandbox was fairly young, nullsec was the ultimate most dangerous place. Any ambitious young empire-builder, gunslinger, dirty trickster, or as yet unfocused arsehat aimed to go there. After becoming not completely ignorant at how this game works. And having a few isk and being able to afford to lose a BS. But of course, along the way, the Law of the Blob naturally made itself apparent to smart Eve players. The bigger the blob, the greater the stomping power. Genghis himself understood that, Eve guys picked up on it too. So-- along the way, little blobs amoebaed into coalitions. Power blocs. (Here in GD, most often alternately spelled as blocks). Huge blobs came in, battled for primacy, enjoyed runs of glory and possible dominance. Nails were bitten. But in the end, smart Eve players saw the inevitable coming, the inevitable outcome of the null sandbox: the Blue Donut. That is, that some blob would reach such a size, and reach a critical mass of winning fights momentum, that it would absorb so many smaller blobs (defeated ones, or just wanting to have some wins ones) that it reached a kind of critical mass. The other blobs, separately or combined, could never have enough momentum to defeat it. Goons-Imperium achieved pretty much that Blue Donut state. A kind of Pax Goonana in null space. They had to have set up a pretty amazing organizational apparatus to administer all of that, and get information to every (potential renegade) cat organization in the coalition, and also down toward the sub-sub-sub-individual player cats. As MMOs go, that has be off the scale in terms of crazy sophisticated achievement. So I'd say Goons won a big chunk of the Eve end game-- for a while at least. Ironically, it was Goths, Visigoths, and Vandals from outside the borders (i.e. outside the game meta gambling sites) that brought them down. (BTW, grr gewns)
Aen Clarke Hoflander Networks 51	Posted - 2017.05.18 12:00:03 - [35] - Quote Endgame is just another word for having max gear in other mmos imo.
Bjorn Tyrson EVE University Ivy League 617	Posted - 2017.05.18 12:18:48 - [36] - Quote Aen Clarke wrote: Endgame is just another word for having max gear in other mmos imo. Not exactly, end game is generally the point at which you can start running the content to get the max lvl gear. Raids, ranked pvp etc. and I see a lot of the other comments that seem to be equating "end game" with "beating the game" or winning eve. personally I see the end game of eve as having the tools, knowledge, and capability to achieve goals, not the achievement of them itself, that is what you use to keep playing, but the ability to go after them. I would say it is the point where Isk no longer matters as much except as a means to an end, so you make enough (either IG or out) to keep as many accounts as you want to run active month to month, and enough to easily afford any ships that you want to put on the line in pursuit of whatever it is you have fun doing. and since different people have different ideas of fun, that point will come at different times. if small gang frigate roams are your thing, well thats gonna be much more attainable than say, whelping a titan just because it didn't have enough holes in it for your liking.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15843	Posted - 2017.05.18 12:40:27 - [37] - Quote Bjorn Tyrson wrote: Aen Clarke wrote: Endgame is just another word for having max gear in other mmos imo. Not exactly, end game is generally the point at which you can start running the content to get the max lvl gear. Raids, ranked pvp etc. and I see a lot of the other comments that seem to be equating "end game" with "beating the game" or winning eve. personally I see the end game of eve as having the tools, knowledge, and capability to achieve goals, not the achievement of them itself, that is what you use to keep playing, but the ability to go after them. I would say it is the point where Isk no longer matters as much except as a means to an end, so you make enough (either IG or out) to keep as many accounts as you want to run active month to month, and enough to easily afford any ships that you want to put on the line in pursuit of whatever it is you have fun doing. and since different people have different ideas of fun, that point will come at different times. if small gang frigate roams are your thing, well thats gonna be much more attainable than say, whelping a titan just because it didn't have enough holes in it for your liking. This right here is really the end game of this thread Everyone one else can shut up because none of us can say it better than Bjorn just did. +1
Omar Alharazaad Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 3295	Posted - 2017.05.18 13:01:36 - [38] - Quote be the apex thingy. revel in that. light fires or put them out. be contested. when the world rises against you in revolt you know you're doing something right. effect a change. may seem vague, but it's all self-defined, so not really so much. go forth and do stuff that you enjoy. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
White Blood Cell1 My Huge Premo Peniss 0	Posted - 2017.05.18 16:07:47 - [39] - Quote I just like playing with my new corp. I hope the fun never ends.
HydrogenBond Shaishi C-H-C 13	Posted - 2017.05.19 03:20:36 - [40] - Quote The end game is when the coalitions align ad everyone is blue. THe servers reset.

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