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Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.05.31 21:23:00 - [31] My thoughts are thus: Triage mode is very well thought out and excellent except for one caveat. 10 minutes is too long to sit in one place. I would like to see the timer changed to 5 minutes and stront consumption reduced accordingly. I believe this still forces the carrier to not move for a bit while also allowing it to keep up with the gang and not hold them back for the full 10 minute cycle after the fight is over. Now for my ideas concerning balance of modules that are inherently linked to triage mode. Capital remote modules are underpowered. Sure they repair a crapload of HP, but they do so at horrible capacitor efficiency rates. Sub-capital modules on non-logistics ships have better cap efficiency than capital remote modules. This is not right. Solution: Change capital remote modules to have a higher cap efficiency just as capital reps/boosters have a higher efficiency than their standard size counterparts. This fixes the issue of carriers capping out WAY too fast in Triage as well as making remote reping out of triage somewhat useful at least. Now for rebuttals and comments to others opinions. Originally by: Icome4u Carriers in Triage Mode = Immune to EW SAME as Dread in Seige mode. I hope this comes to pass because otherwise Triage really is Sitting Duck Mode. Originally by: Alski Conclusion: we need more highslots. Agreed. At the absolute minimum we need one more to fit the Triage mod but I'd like 2-3 more so we have room for all those lovely remote modules we need to fit now. In response to the "OMG our cap gets owned!!1!11eleventy!11" comments: Yes, remote modules ***our cap. This is good, it shouldn't be too easy to remotely help people. I have outlined a suggested fix above though that brings the modules to a more balanced state as atm they are inferior to T1 subcapital mods on non-logistics ships. Guess what kids? You now have an extra slot. You only need 1 rep to do what 4 did out of Triage. (or maybe 2 if I'm not reading the bonuses right) This frees up a slot for a CPR which gives you a VERY nice recharge boost. All this while having a 2x better tank than you had before. Your cap will be fine, trust me. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by:** CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.31 21:30:00 - [32] You guys fail to realize something... its not about 'gimp my tank and keep everyone alive' or even close to that. It's more like this: 'gimp my tank and maybe keep 2-3 BS alive'.... cant fit more to do that and even trying to do that it will kill ur cap in 2-3 mins... now do we want that? ** no. Sorry CCP but i won't sacrifice my carrier to keep alive 2-3 bs.... its just STUPID. BOOST Carrier cap in triage mode OR nerf capital repers need for cap. ______ Originally by:** Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.05.31 21:41:00 - [33] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Big Al Rename to Sitting Duck Module I and you're all set. Being locked down to 10km lock range (with 2 sensor boosters) with no ability to do any damage or heal anyone = win. I don't think that is possible. I tested this on Sisi using my Maulus, the tech 1 gallente ewar frigate. 3 dampeners reduces locking range and speed of the target by 92.3804% roughly. Against a thanatos with 2 sensor boosters, this will drop the locking range to just over 24km. I added two of the damp rigs, and dampening ability went to 94.92% reduction. This will drop targeting range to a bit over 16km. In triage mode, the nondampening scan resolution would be around 1587mm. Dampened, it drops to 80.62mm. This is less than base targeting speed of a Mammoth industrial ship. Keep in mind, I'm factoring in: 25% bonus from signature analysis V 60% bonus from two sensor booster ii's, which stack for 156% targeting range bonus 900% targeting speed bonus from Triage mode And this was done with a single t1 frigate. I think they need to put the targeting range bonus back into triage mode, at the very least ...
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.31 21:57:00 - [34] Edited by: Alski on 31/05/2007 21:57:58 Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Big Al Rename to Sitting Duck Module I and you're all set. Being locked down to 10km lock range (with 2 sensor boosters) with no ability to do any damage or heal anyone = win. I don't think that is possible. I tested this on Sisi using my Maulus, the tech 1 gallente ewar frigate. 3 dampeners reduces locking range and speed of the target by 92.3804% roughly. Against a thanatos with 2 sensor boosters, this will drop the locking range to just over 24km. I added two of the damp rigs, and dampening ability went to 94.92% reduction. This will drop targeting range to a bit over 16km. In triage mode, the nondampening scan resolution would be around 1587mm. Dampened, it drops to 80.62mm. This is less than base targeting speed of a Mammoth industrial ship. Keep in mind, I'm factoring in: 25% bonus from signature analysis V 60% bonus from two sensor booster ii's, which stack for 156% targeting range bonus 900% targeting speed bonus from Triage mode And this was done with a single t1 frigate. I think they need to put the targeting range bonus back into triage mode, at the very least ... I've tested a Thanatos vs. an Arazu before and i don't remember it being much worse than 24km... is that T2 sensor dampeners? i knew it was possable to shutdown a carrier with 2 or 3 maulus's but One? damn. As i said above, EWAR is the biggest problem with carriers. EDIT: stupid forum bugs -
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.05.31 21:58:00 - [35] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen And this was done with a single t1 frigate. I think they need to put the targeting range bonus back into triage mode, at the very least ... They got rid of it?!?!?! I missed that. I assume it went out because you don't need to lock much over 100km and Triage is supposed to make you EWAR invulnerable so you don't need it to counter damps. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.05.31 22:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Tanis. Triage Mode The Triage Module is in effect a siege module for carriers and mother ships which boosts the logistics capabilities at the expense of offensive capabilities. While in Triage Mode the transfer amount is doubled and the duration is cut in half on logistics modules, the personal tanking is boosted and the ship is immune to EW.... As posted in the devblog quoted earlier, apparently Triage mode makes the carrier immune to EW so i guess they took the range bonus out as it wasn't needed. I suppose that now if your in a fleet dealing damage and you get EW'd to hell you can now go into triage mode instead and still do something useful, however at the risk of bleating on about this over and over again, i'm gonna have to say triage mode is not a contingency option because of the lack of spare highslots and long triage mode timer -
Terradoct Gallente shock-WAVE corp. Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.06.06 12:49:00 - [37] I suggest to make change in triage mode. 1. Remove all Energy trasfer bonus and replace it with cap bonus on armor and shield reps. 2. Allow caarier in triage mode be reped by other carriers and logistic ships.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.06 14:58:00 - [38] Originally by: Terradoct I suggest to make change in triage mode. 1. Remove all Energy trasfer bonus and replace it with cap bonus on armor and shield reps. 2. Allow caarier in triage mode be reped by other carriers and logistic ships. 1) I like this, capital remote reps are just horrible atm with cap efficiency compared to generic remote reps on a regular ship, let alone a logistics ship. Carriers need either a say 50% reduction in their capacitor use OR a bonus to our cap recharge in triage. 2) As much as I'd like to see this it won't ever happen. It would be far too overpowered because you could have a chain of triaging carriers that wouldn't ever die. Though I suppose they wouldn't do any damage either, hmmmmm. Perhaps not so overpowered after all. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Alski I suppose that now if your in a fleet dealing damage and you get EW'd to hell you can now go into triage mode instead and still do something useful, however at the risk of bleating on about this over and over again, i'm gonna have to say triage mode is not a contingency option because of the lack of spare highslots and long triage mode timer I disagree. Being able to repair myself 4x as much as I could before seems like a perfectly viable option to stay alive. (Albeit with somewhat lower resists so I can run the reps forever with double consumption) Personally I take about 30% more damage when fitted for triage more but my reps repair 4x more. So 40.7=2.8 Still a much stronger tank than before (pushing 10k DPS unless my math is off) but when I don't have my own reps on I have massive amounts of recharge to repair my gang-mates. All of this while immune to EW. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by:* CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Alski I suppose that now if your in a fleet dealing damage and you get EW'd to hell you can now go into triage mode instead and still do something useful, however at the risk of bleating on about this over and over again, i'm gonna have to say triage mode is not a contingency option because of the lack of spare highslots and long triage mode timer I disagree. Being able to repair myself 4x as much as I could before seems like a perfectly viable option to stay alive. (Albeit with somewhat lower resists so I can run the reps forever with double consumption) Personally I take about 30% more damage when fitted for triage more but my reps repair 4x more. So 40.7=2.8 Still a much stronger tank than before (pushing 10k DPS unless my math is off) but when I don't have my own reps on I have massive amounts of recharge to repair my gang-mates. All of this while immune to EW. All is good on the dreamd land of SISI Then reality hits you. You won't last 2 mins in Triage Module on TQ. Why? Lag + Nos + Neuts. Good luck doing much but dying. ______ Originally by:* Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
A PUPPETMASTER The Galactic Empire Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.10 01:11:00 - [41] I just tested Triage in SiSi and I have to say it's crap. Sure you can tank a lot (when not being nossed which is mostly the case). It makes a support platform out of a nice carrier, but leaving it defenseless in space. A carrier without drones? Has to be a bad joke. Let's see who's that support good for: Dreads and other Capitals? No. One can't rep a Dread in siege mode ( Tested that myself) Leaves the question who to support? Battleships? When counting the remaining high slots one can at most repair 4 BS at once, this means the carrier-pilot is putting a 1,4bil+ ship on a 10 minute silver plate for 4 bs (even Tier3 T2 can only cost about 250-280mil). Calculated all this I have to draw the conclusion that this module with it's actual design is a waste of skilltime. - You can't defend yourself , you have no offense at all and most importantly what you are defending isn't worth the ISK you're putting on the line. 2 T2 fitted Basilisk's can do the same job at least 900mil ISK cheaper. I'm not spamming! This is propaganda and information Warfare ;)
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.10 01:54:00 - [42] I HAVE JUST FOUND A USE FOR THE TRIAGE MODULE!!! You can efficiently repair the armor and shield of a POS/OUTPOST! Or your friendly Titan thats sitting nicely in its safespot! But the leet thing will be to transfer energy to titans so they can doomsday/cyno out! The sad truth is that its the only good things the Triade Module is good for Nice try CCP... but please tweak it ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.06.10 13:29:00 - [43] Edited by: Amy Wang on 10/06/2007 13:30:44 The problem with triage is that it is on a thin line between being semi-useless/situational useful only and overpowered. As it is now it is semi-useless/situational useful only mainly because of lost dps and no possibility to be remotely supported by other ships (immobility is a severe drawback as well but seems kinda balanced for the benefits). The problem is if you either let the triage carrier keep their drone control or let it be remotely supportable (unbreakable chain tanks with virtually unlimited cap anyone?) or worse even both they get unbalanced. My suggestion is to keep triage as it is (useful sometimes but far from an I-win configuration) and lower the skill requirement to something more sensible as I dont see it getting used much if the requirement stays at logistics V. PS: Oh, yes and give carriers an additonal high slot to fit the triage module, more then one high is not needed imho, if you want to fit several remote repair mods you have to take offensive mods off, fair enough I say.
Finlander09	Posted - 2007.06.10 13:38:00 - [44] Im not gonna blow up my poor tanker nidhoggur with that thing. Too weak for sitting duck.
Kakita Jalaan Viriette Commerce and Holding	Posted - 2007.06.11 07:23:00 - [45] Edited by: Kakita Jalaan on 11/06/2007 07:24:13 Hm, I tried it on Sisi with a Chimera, and it increased my life expectancy greatly. You tank 4x the amount per time, and 2x the amount per cap. How is this gimping your tank in any way? You may shout "lagz0rz, omgz0rz" all day, but what the hell? Just fit so your cap recharge will keep up even with triage (which isn't hard). You want tons of cap recharge on your carrier anyway, to be able to remote rep anything while tanking yourself. Also nicely makes you pseudo-immune to nossing (when out of triage), because the amount of Noses it would take to neutralize your cap recharge is just stupid. edit: ...and if you're facing so many guys that they can STILL overcome your tank or your cap recharge, you should die anyway. No ship should survive stupid odds, not even in triage/siege/doomsday mode. ______________ Join the Family
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.06.11 08:36:00 - [46] triage is probally something your not going to use any day in and out, ofc when you have a pos to boost and the enemie has been beaten or something. But most likely triage was more or less been up on sisi to keep titans alive without motherships or close the gab between MS and carrier rep whise. But ofc a carrier wont be a MS just because you fit a high slot module. But a triage will be probally a good thing when your titan has to sit there for 10 minutes while 100 angry ppl are approaching it. When your super caps is on the line id guess most of you are happily getin in triage mode and do their remote rep job. for me triage seems ok when it comes to a ***ty situation as it can help you get out of there alive or at least the super cap your boosting. little known facs: just because you only have 4 remote reps doenst mean you can only save 4 bs In fleetbattles there is no remote rep, cause when it comes to 15 t2 tempest/abadon hitting you at once or close it just goes plop* Just because ppl pretend Triage is **, doenst mean its realy **, ist something special you have to understand and get into it and not just scream "OH MY GOD CCP LEARN YOUR JOB", make up your mind and think outside of the box. Oh and dont scream for another ew nerf
Dragon Lord Caldari Aces and Eights Enterprises R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:05:00 - [47] Edited by: Dragon Lord on 21/08/2007 19:07:44 For me this module allows you to be useful when ew'd to hell on the front lines, because on the front line ew is always on you. If your there to provide fire power then sit in a ss and assign fighters. If your on the front line ur job is to keep your friends alive because your friends are what will keep you alive. As most carrier pilots know when you run out of friends the end if near, however in triage ew has no effect and as long as lag and cap permits u can keep ur friends alive and more friend alive = more dps to kill the enemie. Now also consider the focused fire of 3 bs's is enough to melt any single no capital target, now if you can keep those 3 bs's alive they can melt ship after ship after ship. hell why not keep ur ew alive if the enemie cant kill ur ew there fire power is drastically reduced. Also imagine a ship that gets a v nice web and painter bonus being repped by a carrier then add a dread in seige mode to the mix :)
Boonaki Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.08.22 09:24:00 - [48] I'd like to see triage changed from 10 minutes to 5 minutes, that way a triaged carrier can blow it's load in 5 minutes, come out of triage, and the next carrier can then go into triage and keep everyone alive while the first carrier regens cap. If the first carrier gets attacked the second can keep it alive. Mix that with 5 carriers and you have a pretty usefull mod. Fear the Ibis of doom! 113
aquontium Gallente Fourth Circle	Posted - 2007.08.22 17:35:00 - [49] okay, so immune to ewar until you come out of triage. stupid skills and makes you a non-repairable sitting duck. In a large engagement they go 'ooh, the carrier is in siege, kill it' and we all know you can wipe out a carrier in 7 minutes. why not make it 5 minutes so the carriers stand a chance of limping out, or let them have a %age reduction to benefit of remote reps being used on them?
Dragon Lord Caldari Aces and Eights Enterprises R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.22 18:03:00 - [50] well u may be able to take down a carrier in 7 minutes but thats a none triaged carrier. Remember you get a 50% reduction to booster duration and a 100% boost to shield boost amount. Now this means using the same cap as you were before entering triage you can rep 2 times as much, now most carriers can tank over 3000dps in any dmg type out of triage, in triage thats 6000dps, this makes a big difference to a carriers defenceive abilitys. Also at a push u can run the booster none stop at least for a short while whihc would give you a tankability of 12000dps which isnt to be sniffed at. Also if ur nossed to sell, u can still tank as well as u did out of triage but only using half the cap you used 2. For me thats a usefull defensive mod. And most sensible gangs take out the support before the super tankers. So keeping that support around is key.
Tarnia Xavian	Posted - 2007.08.22 19:38:00 - [51] In triage mode: 1. Fit all carriers with dual reps 2. Use energy transfers to assist other cap ships as needed 3. Use remote reppers to assist BS support fleet 4. win Think of your carrier fleet as a mobile store of cap energy. Re-route the cap to where it is needed most at the moment. A dual repped carrier in triage is, because of the triage bonus, like a quad-repped non-triage with his cap sitting in his buddies' cap store. (Note: You can receive cap transfer in triage mode, yes?) (smile)
Dragon Lord Caldari Aces and Eights Enterprises R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.22 21:57:00 - [52] Edited by: Dragon Lord on 22/08/2007 22:01:33 This is the setup i will be using once i can fly my chimera well enough, this is for front line action. Implants: +5% cap, -5% cap recharge time Rigs: 1 t2 em hardener, 2 t2 ccc's Lows: 4 true sansha cap power relays Mids: Capital shield booster, 2 x dread guristas boost amps, 2 x dread invuls and 2 true sansha cap rechargers (no need for a sensor booster when ur in triage. Highs: 1 capital shield transfer, 2 dcu's 1 dread guristas smaty and a triage mod. Abilitys: with carrier lvl5 its lowest res is just under 75%, its booster will rep over 8000hp every 10s and its cap recharge is over 500cap/s yes thats right OVER 500cap/s. Now once in triage will use maybe 420cap/s running the booster perminanty and this would then give u 16000hp shields every 5s, so on 75% lowest res thats 12800dps tankable dps with around 100cap/s spare, this then allows u to mega tank AND remote rep primarys making u not a sitting duck but a sitting super tank. Triage also boosts max lockable targets and lock speed, prefect to keep friends that have been primaried alive. also note that while in triage sustained the same tank u had while out of triage now takes half the cap so about 100cap/s leaving a massive 400cap/s spare if u need to perma rep a corpy while still tanking over 3000dps by micro managing ur booster. Simply and awsome fleet support ship. you may not be able to move for 10 minutes but with ur carriers increadible tank and logistical capabilitys u wont need to go anywhere.

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