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Palcus
Caldari
Shrouded Sun
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Posted - 2007.05.13 22:16:00 -
[1]
I've loaded two 80% gravimetric ECCMs and I still get permajammed on The Assault L4 by two Dire Pithum Nullifiers. TWO SHIPS. I'm just going to load FOF missiles and spam them now. Instead of tactical or strategic decisions, I'm going to SPAM FOF MISSILES.
60+ Gravimetric strength and I'm still in lockdown.
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Zen Hayabusa
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Posted - 2007.05.13 23:55:00 -
[2]
gratz
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.14 04:59:00 -
[3]
Brute force has its virtues...
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Krashtest
Exploratory Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.14 09:52:00 -
[4]
Having 60+ sensor strength in 1 area is worthless , considering the fact that npcs use multispec jammers and are jamming the other 3 types also. There is no way to prevent that.
The FoF spam may not work as you think , as FoF go after the closest aggressing ship. Best bet is to get aggro , launch drones and send them after the jamming ships. Keeo in mind though, drones do take while to pop theDire typs cruisers due to high resists.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.14 10:23:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Krashtest
Having 60+ sensor strength in 1 area is worthless , considering the fact that npcs use multispec jammers and are jamming the other 3 types also. There is no way to prevent that.
Seem a bit strange You mean that they only need to jam the weakest sensor, not my main one?
Unless I use a different back up I haven't a secondary sensor tipe strenght.
Originally by: Krashtest
The FoF spam may not work as you think , as FoF go after the closest aggressing ship. Best bet is to get aggro , launch drones and send them after the jamming ships. Keeo in mind though, drones do take while to pop theDire typs cruisers due to high resists.
And how you will direct the drones when you are jammed? They will chose the target as they want.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.05.14 10:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Krashtest
Having 60+ sensor strength in 1 area is worthless , considering the fact that npcs use multispec jammers and are jamming the other 3 types also. There is no way to prevent that.
That is wrong. To jam something sucsessfully you need to overcome ALL sensor types ship has. In case of non jove ships it means your higest (and only) sensor type will set difficulty to jam you.
However I suspect that NPC's ignore your sensor strenght (however high number you have) and have just flat chance of jamming you. Hell I have been jammed even sometimes after I have already completed the mission and are wading towards station to dock and hand that completed mission over.
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SillyWaif
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Carniflex
... Hell I have been jammed even sometimes after I have already completed the mission and are wading towards station to dock and hand that completed mission over.
That sounds familiar ;) I have been jammed while salvaging the wrecks. It was like: " WTF?  Did I miss one?"
Not recently tho so i guess they ironed that bug out ;)
OT: Indeed the jamming is pretty annoying. Plenty of threads about it already.
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William Hartas
Caldari
OcUK
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Palcus
This is not funny!
Actually, you're wrong. It is!
(but only 'cos I've been permajammed like that as well)
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:22:00 -
[9]
Do the Guristas have stronger/more successful jammers than Caldari Navy?
I recently did In The Midst Of Deadspace vs Amarr/Caldari, first time thru I was jammed 5 or 6 times but was able to pickout and kill the jammers pretty quickly, the second time I was not jammed once.
I havent fitted any ECCM/ECM or any electronics/sensor modules and have bare minimum E-War skills, I do fly a Nighthawk however but cannot remember its sensor strength.
Warning, sig starts here,
Imperial Visions, Now 40315 seconds since our last fatality
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.14 14:56:00 -
[10]
Its at this point I will say - ECCM makes no difference in NPC rats.
Motherships and Titans can be jammed. Warp scrambled as well.
Try a scorp with all ECCM - you still get jammed a lot.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.05.14 17:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: William Hartas
Originally by: Palcus
This is not funny!
Actually, you're wrong. It is!
EVE Precept #701, the Law of Inverse Amusement: The more vigorously someone insists "It's not funny!" the funnier it actually is.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari
Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.14 19:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Palcus
I've loaded two 80% gravimetric ECCMs and I still get permajammed on The Assault L4 by two Dire Pithum Nullifiers. TWO SHIPS. I'm just going to load FOF missiles and spam them now. Instead of tactical or strategic decisions, I'm going to SPAM FOF MISSILES.
60+ Gravimetric strength and I'm still in lockdown.
I think it's funny, but not that it's happening to you (or anyone else). But because it totally exposes some conceptual/short-cut issues with their AI programing.
Phoenix Logistics Industries |
Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.05.14 23:28:00 -
[13]
take a friend or just spam em
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.05.15 07:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Palcus
60+ Gravimetric strength and I'm still in lockdown.
It's funny, because you could have 100000 sensor strength and you'd still be jammed.
NPC ships don't work like player ships, they ignore sensor strengths completely when jamming you, and can never be jammed themselves.
They also can be NOSed but only for a certain max total amount, and you don't shut them down by NOSing, you just make their repairers/boosters cycle slower (yes, no other effects).
So, yes, it's funny, because you don't know that NPCs always cheat.
As for the missile spam, yes, FoFs should work just fine as long as:
a) you don't have any structures closer as enemy ships
b) enemy ships are already engaging you
c) you don't have too many orbiting enemies yet, or if you do, you can move faster as they orbit (so you keep a single target)
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.05.15 13:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
It's funny, because you could have 100000 sensor strength and you'd still be jammed.
NPC ships don't work like player ships, they ignore sensor strengths completely when jamming you, and can never be jammed themselves.
Well I am not sure how their jamming works (in l3s it is a small enough nuisance not to bother me and I don't get any guristas L4s thank god), but many people DO report that ECCM helps, while others say its worthless. Personally I believe those that say it does work are anti-runner racists wanting to screw us, but someday I will have to test it myself I guess.
But you are wrong about jamming NPCs. They CAN be jammed. And jamming them seems to work just like jamming players. I once used to farm a mission with one frig left so it wold respawn. When looting, I gave my sigil one race specific ECM which ended up have a strength of 7.2ish (was before ECM nerf) and the NPC sensor strength of 8. And the poor frig was jammed like 90% of the time, signified by him losing lock and returning to his starting location until he was out of range, the he came back, I jammed him again, etc. pp.
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Thank you SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in turret
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the blender
the Gentleman Loser
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Posted - 2007.05.15 14:35:00 -
[16]
OK I have no proof of this and I dont use anti-ewar on my setup's. But when I have my target painter fitted on my raven I get jammed by guristas a lot less that when I dont use it. Although the target painter does have a bug that brings up a jamming bar every few minutes or so although I'm not actually jammed. It happens even if I'm not in the mission area in fact just about anywhere. So slap a target painter in there and see if that helps.
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.15 18:40:00 -
[17]
Warp In - Launch Drones - Lock Target - Drones Engage Target - Fly around so you don't die. If still permajammed so you can't lock second target recall drones warp out and start process all over.
Once Drones engage it doesn't matter if you lose lock or not they will state on target until target is destroyed.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.05.15 20:41:00 -
[18]
I fit 1 Radar ECCM to my Apoc and are only jammed on the last stage of Pirate Slaughter. Without it, i get pretty much jammed all the time on all stages.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.05.16 06:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: the blender
OK I have no proof of this and I dont use anti-ewar on my setup's. But when I have my target painter fitted on my raven I get jammed by guristas a lot less that when I dont use it. Although the target painter does have a bug that brings up a jamming bar every few minutes or so although I'm not actually jammed. It happens even if I'm not in the mission area in fact just about anywhere. So slap a target painter in there and see if that helps.
Thats interesting info. I had indeed target painter installed and that jamming bar kept appearing even after killing last NPC. When I was wading towards doking ring I was actually jammed (outside deadspace) so it might be bug. Was a while ago and I dont have anymore correct data at hand to file bugreport.
And about ECCM. I'm not sure if it helps or not. Have had impressions both way (with alt dropping remote ECCM on me and not dropping). Quess my datapool is too small to find any significant correlation for it. Or it's just luck of the draw  . By general impression I would say it does not help as I do get jammed even with pretty insane sensor strenghts (2x remote ECCM projectors) - perhaps a bit less jammed but still more than my sensor strenght should allow.
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Black Vador
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Posted - 2007.05.16 08:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: JamnOne
Once Drones engage it doesn't matter if you lose lock or not they will state on target until target is destroyed.
Oh no they don't .. I have to re-tell my drones up to 3 times per target to go back and finish killing it becasue they decide they are bored and start attacking other things. This unfortunately leads to multiple waves when the drones attack the main ship before I tell them to.
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:27:00 -
[21]
i've had some problems with the serp version of this mission too...
the npc jamming doesnt work like jamming should work, on the assault i tend to just lose target lock randomly, its not jamming as without a change in distance or any time at all i can relock the same target, also i tend to lose all but one target, the end result is that its just really raelly annoying
and it may be funny talking about it on the forums, but its really dull when your trying to complete a mission you've done 10 times before that just doesnt get any less painful. hell as far as missions go for the time it takes, you dont even get much isk from it, not the serpentis one at least.
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Xplained
Caldari
Ticon Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.16 11:10:00 -
[22]
Use a alt/corp memeber in a fast frig for the agro and pop-em before they start to ECM 
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Overflower
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Posted - 2007.05.16 11:55:00 -
[23]
This man speaks the truth.
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Vana Gank
Gallente
Kebabtossers
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Posted - 2007.05.16 12:57:00 -
[24]
FoF missiles?
Drones?
Might do the trick for you ppl.
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Enduros
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Posted - 2007.05.16 13:15:00 -
[25]
What about us people with guns?? Someone gimmeh fof projectiles
I have 5mil in drones but it's better not to use them since they cause way too much unwanted attention and are stupid in general.
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Vana Gank
Gallente
Kebabtossers
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Posted - 2007.05.16 13:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Vana Gank on 16/05/2007 13:20:55
Originally by: Enduros
What about us people with guns?? Someone gimmeh fof projectiles
I have 5mil in drones but it's better not to use them since they cause way too much unwanted attention and are stupid in general.
Yeah, sorry to hear about that - but to have the ability to flex, you may have to get some drone+missiles skills to. It's worth it for later ... :)
Eve will never let anyone use a "one fitting pw0ns all" (okai, save the titan jokes) - it's never been the intent. :)
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vana Gank
Edited by: Vana Gank on 16/05/2007 13:20:55
Originally by: Enduros
What about us people with guns?? Someone gimmeh fof projectiles
I have 5mil in drones but it's better not to use them since they cause way too much unwanted attention and are stupid in general.
Yeah, sorry to hear about that - but to have the ability to flex, you may have to get some drone+missiles skills to. It's worth it for later ... :)
Eve will never let anyone use a "one fitting pw0ns all" (okai, save the titan jokes) - it's never been the intent. :)
I guess you don't even realize that the NPC Ewar craze is doing exactly that? Making the already 'one ship pwns all' Raven even more powerful by gimping anything else further? 
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Thank you SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in turret
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Vana Gank
Gallente
Kebabtossers
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I guess you don't even realize that the NPC Ewar craze is doing exactly that? Making the already 'one ship pwns all' Raven even more powerful by gimping anything else further?
I hate it when other's are right. Well, at least partially. The Raven is somewhat strong for PvE ... but then again - I dont think we should derail into a "Nerf Raven" topic.
Let's make love, not war.
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Please adjust the map, please.
Im not smart enough to fly the correct direction by myself |
JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Black Vador
Originally by: JamnOne
Once Drones engage it doesn't matter if you lose lock or not they will state on target until target is destroyed.
Oh no they don't .. I have to re-tell my drones up to 3 times per target to go back and finish killing it becasue they decide they are bored and start attacking other things. This unfortunately leads to multiple waves when the drones attack the main ship before I tell them to.
Must be something wrong with my setup then. My drones don't leave the target unless it is destroyed. And then it is a crap shoot and I pray I have another target engaged or I can recall them before they attack something else.
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:13:00 -
[30]
Edited by: JamnOne on 16/05/2007 16:11:56
Originally by: Enduros
What about us people with guns?? Someone gimmeh fof projectiles
I have 5mil in drones but it's better not to use them since they cause way too much unwanted attention and are stupid in general.
I alternate between using a Proph and a Harb. The Proph has one launcher slot so I can use FoF or or small missiles.
when it comes to those I know are jamming me - if I don't get the lock on them first I warp out and target them immediately on my way back in and blast them away. If it is to difficult to determine who is doing it and my drones become useless I do bring in an alt/corpmate for assistance let him tank and then I blast away. As long as the alt/corpmate is tanking he gets scrambled.
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