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Esiel Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.14 00:51:00 - [1] Here I go into the frey - I have been playing eve for about a year and I have enjoyed learning different aspects of the game. I have now reached a point where I am using POS's for industrial purposes. Pirates are my biggest problem right now with this, and the thing that bugs me the most is how one sided it is. There is nothing I can do to deal with the problem. They have tech ii ships and all the fancy mods and I have most of my skills in industry reasearch and I hauling. (I have also wasted skillz in mining and other stuff when I was learning about how the game worked) My corp can't deal with the problem I am the most experianced person and I am trying to recruit but experianced players just aren't coming. So that means I am at the mercy of these guys. They just gate camp all day. I thought this was suposed to be - somewhat secure space, meaning that I can be attacked but concord would help a little. I am not asking to turn low sec space into empire space but do something to help out the little people. So far as I can tell the only responses for these type of problems are - 1) tough you shouldn't enjoy the game because only we deserve to enjoy the game and you shouldn't have a POS unless you can kill anyone who wants to kill you 2) get your corp to fight back - (Can't explained why allready) 3) pay someone to kill them - that is stupid first I only make about 100 mill a week and about 1/2 goes back into the POS. that means I will be spending all my extra money to try and get some corp to kill them and I doubt I would have enough and it would leave me with nothing) So far all these solutions stink to high heaven. I want to enjoy eve too. This game isn't just a small group of peoples playground so lets have a compromise. I have to work my butt (ok my fingers) off to get my stuff so lets make the pirates have to work at it. Have concord send in patrols where pirating happens alot. That means pirates will have to move around and can't just camp in a system with no worries. Or how about my other suggestion I made before, make the sentry guns more powerfull, make the pirates work some, right now they ignore the guns and can camp all day while the guns bearly tickle them. Or third we could just allow moon havesting in Empire space that way I don't have to mine in low sec space and let the pirates continue to be "carebear" pvp'ers who only fight ships they know they can kill and live in thier relative safety. In the end there can be only one.
Evil Kitten	Posted - 2007.05.14 00:57:00 - [2] If you can't fight for yourself then get mercs.
death2nite Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:01:00 - [3] .4 and below concord wont do jack. its up to you to defend yourself or hire someone to deal with your problem like mercs
Big Al The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:03:00 - [4] 1.) Most of low sec is empty and generally worthless unless you are moon mining or agent running. 2.) Maybe CCP will someday buff low sec so it isn't worthless. There aren't very many pirates outside of the choke points where they can happily pop shuttles and wayward haulers all day. Generally the only gatecamps that will be large enough to tackle your stabbed up hauler will be in these locations. You need to pay attention to local, it's really hard to die if you are trying to avoid combat in lowsec, you should almost always be able to get away. Eve is a pvp game and people trying to get the pvp out of it (and succeeding - privateer nerf, sentry boosts, concord boost now) is really sad. That being said, you are correct, 20 ships on a gate blowing up 1 hauler isn't really pvp - but it's a byproduct of the lack of targets in lowsec. If you want to enjoy a pve or consensual pvp only game I suggest you look at the other fine products on the market. In summary, more people will want to help you out when low sec becomes worth being in. (hopefully level 5 missions will bring more people out). As a temporary solution several corps offer "low sec protection packages" for reasonable rates - they'll set you blue and kill any neutrals they see leaving you to carebear happily.
Felysta Sandorn Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:05:00 - [5] You've got a few choices... 1) Hire Mercs 2) Move to a less popular system 3) Find some anti-pirate corp who will be interested in taking out the piewats 4) Find a PvP corp that'll be insterested in killing the piewats 5) Get a number of PvPers in to your corp and fight back I'm already interested... How many are generally there, what ship types, and where are you? I might come pay a visit... Latest Video, Click Here!
Kylar Renpurs	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:09:00 - [6] It's actually quite easy to avoid gatecamps and the like in low sec chokes, they arent there 24/7 and a little bit of scouting goes a long way. Also, having a good industry plan, utilising NPC facilities wherever possible, scouting and shuttle use all contributes. Tactically locate your corp offices to make the most of your corp resources. A big tip for you,, dont just think POS should be used for manufacturing. Unless you are making capital ships for a living (and even then NPC stations can be used for it, except for mommies and titans), hi sec manufacturing facilities accrue an ignorable fee and are generally underused, saving you the risk of ferrying resources to low sec for manuf all the time. Improve Market Competition!
Esiel Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Big Al There aren't very many pirates outside of the choke points where they can happily pop shuttles and wayward haulers all day. Generally the only gatecamps that will be large enough to tackle your stabbed up hauler will be in these locations. You need to pay attention to local, it's really hard to die if you are trying to avoid combat in lowsec, you should almost always be able to get away. quote] This is indeed the problem I am facing, and while you might think you have discovered some way to avoid this, the answer is you are wrong. First it is the warp in that will get you killed, that means local is useless. To avoid this I have changed times I warp in, checked the map and looked at ships killed and ships active and while this helps a little it doesn't stop it. And once again you are missing the point. I am the one that has to do all the work. They on the other hand have no work other than waiting to see if someone warps in. I am not trying to remove pirating I just want them to work at it. Make them have to try and plan and to get around. The only planning they have to do is "Hey dude lets log in at 22:00 tommarrow and go gank some industrials" In the end there can be only one.
Denian Crow	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:19:00 - [8] Unfortunately, EVE doesnt cater to the small guy, the small corp or even the small Alliance (unless they have big friends). Build a sandcastle with some buds, and some tools WILL come by and knock it down. Bigger is better here, bigger ships, bigger weapons, bigger groups and, apparently, knowing a Dev has real ramifications. Blob and gank is the word of the day and most things favor the agressor, the thief, the baiter and the *****. Things will go better for you when you just resign yourself to that.
jilahed	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Esiel whine whine whine Have you ever lived the life of an outlaw? How can you even tell how hard or easy it is? It may be easy for them to kill you, but that is because you don't want to learn to defend yourself or pay people to do it. It doesn't mean their lifes are easy in general - that's stupid. Outlaws are the most gimped people in the game. They can be attacked everywhere by anyone. (and yes this happens frequently as i can assure from personal experience) About sentries: You already need bcs at least to tank them for longer than 2 cycles or so or you need large numbers. Increasing sentry damage will just make us use our battleships and eventually our carriers to gatecamp or just more people at the camp. Then you will come here whine again and say oh these cowards why do they have to use big/many ships to kill me? Why don't they make a fair fight - bla bla bla. Just got to 0.0 for a while - once you're back you'll realize how peaceful and safe lowsec is. And btw if they stay at the same gate all day - how about not using this gate? Thats not exactly rocket science is it? And the fact that you can only make 100mill a week says you should look for another profession. I could make that amount of iskies in a day or two in empire after only 1 month of training. So how about just leaving lowsec alone and do some good old veldspar sucking in hisec? Why did you even venture to lowsec(= dangerous space) when you didn't even plan on protecting yourself in the first place. Please tell us where you live and where that pos is. Because if these guys don't manage to pop it i might consider coming over to do it myself.
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:22:00 - [10] i like some of the snarky responses these types of threads get. it reminds me of WoW.
Renosha Argaron Caldari The Celestial Free Miner's	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:23:00 - [11] Guys alot of the time the mercs "ARE" the pirates.....lol....but anyway i dont think you should hang out in 0.4 and below if you cant defend yourself or your ship/POS....i know its hard but hey its the facts.....but i do think CCP needs to get a grip of whats going on in Empire with the pirats/mercs....even empire aint safe these days and alot of noobs and noob corps are being robbed and turned over or extorted for what little they have worked hard to build up. Afterall empire should be safe for all players seeing as it has concord.....but alot of the pirates find ways of working around concord's security messures either by baiting or by war decking......something should be done....i know alot of new players are being put off of eve for this very reason. Anyway....lol....End of rant;) Regards and good luck Renosha
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:48:00 - [12] Crying for some one else to fix the problem for you usually doesnt get the problem fixed. You have all the tools you need to fix the problem on your own, it is not CCP's fault nor the pirates fault for you not taking advantage of the tools given to you to accomplish your mission. If you want something in this game chances are you'll have to take it from someone else and if you cant do it well then your not gonna get what you want. I have lived in lowsec almost my entire time in EVE and it hasnt been easy and some may call me a pirate because I attack people I am not comfortable with them being in my system, but because of it the area I live in is now realtivly quiet. It took lots of hard work and I lost a lot of ships as did my corpies. If your not willing to make sacrifices then you have no right to get any of the reward ( not that low sec has any great reward)
Erichk Knaar Caldari Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:59:00 - [13] As others have pointed out... If you cannot fight this battle yourself, I'm sure you could find multiple mercenary organizations to help you. Contact Khul Drukath in game to enquire about pricing and what we can do for you.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.14 03:09:00 - [14] alliances get too many boosts and push pirates into losec pirates get too much boredom because alliances generally dont even need to go to losec with carriers and jump clones at their disposal so they shoot the even smaller guys / industry diehards industry diehards stick to high sec and some of them either quit or turn to trading wich makes more boredom for pirates and brings lag to jita its the never ending cycle where if there was "harsh" space as i would call it where you can't anchor pos but its 0.0 then there might be routes in between alliance territory or around it and pirates could travel to more places without having to try to go through high sec this would leave less chokepoints as well and maybe for the smart people it would allow them to go around losec also more gates need to be added to most places and a few chokepoints expanded some chokepoints is ok but there needs to be more jumps in most systems (yes serious) ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Escobar Noreaga F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.14 03:47:00 - [15] cant agree more, i think its high time there were more access points to 0.0, choke points are fine and dandy but more often then not its advantage is turned around.
Kylar Renpurs	Posted - 2007.05.14 03:59:00 - [16] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 14/05/2007 03:57:26 Quote: Just got to 0.0 for a while - once you're back you'll realize how peaceful and safe lowsec is. And btw if they stay at the same gate all day - how about not using this gate? Thats not exactly rocket science is it? uh,, what? More like the opposite,, 0.0 is quite the luxury resort. Warp-in a problem? Warp in with a shuttle beforehand and sniff around, it's really not tricky. Dont have all your eggs in one basket and have your in-game ops shut down by one gatecamp. Although I do support the argument for more warp-ins,, spawn camping is pretty lame and should be avoided in MMO's Improve Market Competition!
jilahed	Posted - 2007.05.14 04:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs uh,, what? More like the opposite,, 0.0 is quite the luxury resort. Yeah, certainly. Dictor and inties at gates are really teh luxury - but for the gatecampers. Sorry but this is total bs. He was complaining about gatecamps and i as a 23/7 lowsec inhabitant can assure you there are basically no camps at all. And 90% of the camps that do exist can be easily avoided with an mwd or some agility mods/wcs. The few professional camps are really not a problem. In 0.0 you are typically screwed because you can be tackled by small ships. This is all i am saying and i really can't see whats wrong about it. But please share your wisdom with me.(and yes i have been part of a 0.0 alliance and lived there several months - blablabla - so don't even get this started) If you are talking about the carebearing heavens some alliances make up for their members - totally different issue. Maybe you want to leave your safe homebase and have a look around for example at your next enemies territory and tell me the gate camps are a luxury resort in comparison to lowsec camps. tsss. Or maybe you just want to set up a pos there and then come and complain that concord doesn't protect it. lol. Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Although I do support the argument for more warp-ins,, spawn camping is pretty lame and should be avoided in MMO's What are spawn points?
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.14 05:11:00 - [18] 1) Use a scout when moving valuables, especially if you're doing it in a slow ship. 2) Invest in a tech2 hauler. They're worth it. 3) 2d maps are your friend. Download them, study them, find alternate routes. 4) Consider doing our PVP-BASIC course so that you know something about how pirates operate, and pick up some tips on how to defend yourself. ------ Agony Unleashed is recruiting.
Kylar Renpurs	Posted - 2007.05.14 05:11:00 - [19] Quote: What are spawn points? Edit: Even more important: what are warp-ins? Are you talking about gates? is warpin = spawn point = gate? Sorry, used someones else language in context,,, jump in's is what i meant. As for spawn points I mean exactly that, a spawn point, like a jump gate. A point where players always spawn. And when I say 0.0 isnt as dangerous, I meant it. Sure, i've lived in 0.0 in numerous alliances too, and I can never think of a time I had to get my indy escorted, heck, I only ever lost one when I went afk longer than anticipated during a warp and got popped by gate npcs. I dont deny the chokes arent dangerous, but 0.0 chokes are just as deadly as low sec chokes (re: my point about spawn camping). 0.0 is the home of alliances and friendlies unless you're in invasion circumstances. 0.1 -> 0.4 is the home of any man and his dog rabble of pirates, frequented because those corps dont have the strength or teamwork for 0.0, which makes non-pvp players under those circumstances prime targets of pvpers, because they are small, non-aggressive teams. Improve Market Competition!
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.14 05:14:00 - [20] One other option: Get your standings up to 5 with the faction that controls your space and re-deploy your POS in a .5 system. You will need to temporarily bump everyone from your corp that doesn't have that high also, but once the POS is deployed you can bring them back in. If you are trying Moon Mining it won't help of course. You can also contact Empire Research when you re-deploy. They are a Industrial Alliance that is comprised of corps with POSs and those that need to use a POS. They share slots for the good of the EvE community at reasonable rates. <-----------> Factional Warefare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
R3dSh1ft FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.14 05:56:00 - [21] use pod scouting to find where their camps are, in lowsec no dictors makes you invulnerable in a pod. _________________________________________________________ FIRMA - a drinking corp with an EVE problem
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.14 06:11:00 - [22] Originally by: SiJira alliances get too many boosts and push pirates into losec pirates get too much boredom because alliances generally dont even need to go to losec with carriers and jump clones at their disposal so they shoot the even smaller guys / industry diehards industry diehards stick to high sec and some of them either quit or turn to trading wich makes more boredom for pirates and brings lag to jita its the never ending cycle where if there was "harsh" space as i would call it where you can't anchor pos but its 0.0 then there might be routes in between alliance territory or around it and pirates could travel to more places without having to try to go through high sec this would leave less chokepoints as well and maybe for the smart people it would allow them to go around losec also more gates need to be added to most places and a few chokepoints expanded some chokepoints is ok but there needs to be more jumps in most systems (yes serious) You sir have no idea what your talking about. Options: 1) hire someone to clean up the area 2) move somewhere that is friendlier 3) fully commit your self and corp to low sec, the people who get hurt the most are the ones trying to commute back and forth from high to low sec all the time. I live and play in low sec ever min of every day and almost never have any issues. Recruiting Terrorists
Kather Turbulent	Posted - 2007.05.14 08:38:00 - [23] Edited by: Kather on 14/05/2007 08:37:15 Originally by: R3dSh1ft use pod scouting to find where their camps are, in lowsec no dictors makes you invulnerable in a pod. not true :p (the invulnerable bit) to the op, of course pirates will have better ships than you. all my skill points are in combat related things, whereas u say yourself that most of yours are in industry. if you want to fight better, train combat skills,simple. as for concord protection, thats what high sec is for. also i'm guessing that you mostly get killed on gates, well theres gate guns shooting the pirates. tehy may be fairly easily tankable, but they're still a pain avast, matey! Yarr old sig is too large, the maximum allowed filesize is 24,000 bytes. -Hango
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.14 09:15:00 - [24] Unfortunately, if your lowsec profit margins leave you with insufficient resources to defend yourself in one way or another, Eve's natural selection dictates that you shouldn't be there. Options: 1) Shift your POS to highsec, it requires a ton of standing etc with the relevant faction, but it works. 2) Find a way of increasing revenue, then hire mercs. 3) Bribe the pirates to bugger off. 4) Learn to pvp/recruit pvpers 5) Die. To be honest it doesn't sound like you're getting value for money from your POS anyway, you should consider scrapping it and finding alternate sources of income.
Anson Halleck Lost Eden	Posted - 2007.05.14 09:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Esiel So far all these solutions stink to high heaven. I want to enjoy eve too. This game isn't just a small group of peoples playground so lets have a compromise. I have to work my butt (ok my fingers) off to get my stuff so lets make the pirates have to work at it. Have concord send in patrols where pirating happens alot. That means pirates will have to move around and can't just camp in a system with no worries. This has been proposed few times already and I think it is very good idea. Low security does not mean NO security.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.14 09:33:00 - [26] Seeing the problems is simple: low sec is overhunted (the number of pirate vs non-pirates is to high) a POS make a stationary target, so people know you can be found there Finding a affordable and functional solution isn't so easy. I will give some suggestion and comment, but none is a total solution. First: if I recall right Maut is on the border between high sec and low, so a prime hunting ground for pirates, if you need to build a permanent infrastructure you must move deeper in low sec or build a fighting force capable to control the system. Second: run a bit around in low sec with a combat ship, and study the locals, there is a good number of systems controlled by informal alliances and people that will not shot you on sight, you could join one of the informal alliances and get at least some help and maybe the experienced players you lack. Hiring mercs, it can be at best a stopgap measure. They can be great to clear an area and to patrol it for some time, but they are PVPers and after some time without opposition they will leave for another job. Reduce the number of voyages between high and low sec, and try to make them using the best security you can get (escorts, scouts). After the entry points in low sec and some choke point you will have little chance of finding gatecamps. Learn your area and add to the buddy list any know pirate, so you know when they are active. Learn some combat skill you simply need them. In EVE only a trader working from a station without ever leaving it can live without combat skills.
Valan	Posted - 2007.05.14 09:40:00 - [27] To be honest most gate gankers won't stand and fight. This is due to a number of things, a lack of profit, wrong fitting, fear of a loss on their kill board and many others. All you have to do is jump in mob handed and the gate camp will dissolve faster than you can say boo. We've had trouble getting a fight all weekend. To be honest we need to scale down our little band down into a couple of groups. Think we overpowered them with 8 ships. To be honest I don't understand your problem I usually travel at will in low sec regardless of ship type. I have to do a bit of dodging soemtimes but nothing serious. I've lost the odd hauler through apathy. I can understand why people want empire to be secure but nerfing low sec is ridiculous. You want the rewards for running a POS then you need to work at it. Running around afk in a hauler generating ISK is grind not work. Outsmarting the pirates and getting the rewards is hard work. Overcoming the risk is the hard work in EVE not the grind. You've been given multiple options to move forward use em. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.14 09:51:00 - [28] I can only echo what was said before. I hear you are unable to fight back or hire mercs, so the most viable option imo would be to move somewhere where there's 1. multiple access points (so you're not stopped by a single gatecamp) and 2. less people. Of course, you moving there would nix point 2, so make sure to be sneaky and don't keep all your people in your pos system. You could base out of a highsec system near lowsec, ideally a not much frequented jump (i.e. no stacmon - ostingele et al). Or go to Genesis, no one ever goes there. --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.14 10:05:00 - [29] Originally by: Esiel Edited by: Esiel on 14/05/2007 01:18:25and for those intrested - (I am just asking to get more pirates to kill me I am sure) The system Maut or Alparena - the problem two corps "The Hull Miners Union [ONION]" and "Gr0und Zero [ZERO] they kill 5-12 ships daily and have killed me 3 times and podded me twice. "Once again I am not trying to remove pirating I just want it on a more even playing field" How on earth did they manage to pod you? Smartbomb? Because if its anything other than a smartbomb, I'm pretty surprised. I didn't think anything smaller than a battlecruiser could withstand sentry fire - and a BC, even with sensor boosters, shouldn't be able to target a pod in time.
Valan	Posted - 2007.05.14 10:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: Esiel Edited by: Esiel on 14/05/2007 01:18:25and for those intrested - (I am just asking to get more pirates to kill me I am sure) The system Maut or Alparena - the problem two corps "The Hull Miners Union [ONION]" and "Gr0und Zero [ZERO] they kill 5-12 ships daily and have killed me 3 times and podded me twice. "Once again I am not trying to remove pirating I just want it on a more even playing field" How on earth did they manage to pod you? Smartbomb? Because if its anything other than a smartbomb, I'm pretty surprised. I didn't think anything smaller than a battlecruiser could withstand sentry fire - and a BC, even with sensor boosters, shouldn't be able to target a pod in time. My guess is AFK /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig

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