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Amarr BS in Revelations 2

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Khan Soriano Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.05.14 13:20:00 - [1] Could someone tell me if CCP is going to do something about Amarr Battleships in the upcoming Revelations 2? Right now we have: Geddon - problems with cpu & mere 3 med slots (its the only non-faction BS that has so little of them) and we were told that this will be adressed soon(tm) Apocalypse - seriously does ANYONE use it (I'm hanging out in Amarr favourable space for half a year now and I haven't seen one of them even on scanner)? Its so wrong that I don't even know where to start, give it some purpose people! Abaddon - despite lots of criticism before Rev 1 its now the most balanced BS for Amarr pilots. 4 meds to work with, 8 high slots so either lots of firepower or mix with utlilities (nos, neuts, smartbombs), decent lowslots to put some tanking or ganking and 75m3 dronebay makes it really fun to fit (lots of possibilites) Please tell me something will be done about this because from what I've seen right now is that community thinks Heat(tm) will be an answer to all EVEs problems (nerf-nos, boost-amarr, balance-damps, destroy-blobs, etc.) and CCP is keeping their mouth shut about what improvements it will bring (besides a 'new level of combat depth bla bla bla').
Liam Fremen Gallente Global Isk Network NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.14 13:54:00 - [2] Edited by: Liam Fremen on 14/05/2007 13:52:10 Apocalypse still make the cheaper dual large t2 repper tank that run continuously without any expensive module and without nosferatu!! (dominix do it too but not forever without nosferatu) Projectile weapons (or lasers break the tank) 4x eutetic cap recharger 2x Large Repper t2 1x Beta cap power relay 4x Active hardeners without any rigs or anything else it just run forever like this. Good and cheap for plex tanking and similar stuff. Unitevi alla crociata contro gli sfigati di EvE, gli AESC!
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.14 14:14:00 - [3] Well, if lasers have their cap use halved, and the "c(r)ap use" bonus switched with something useful i will be happy Apoc will be good, with a new bouns that is, cap amount and ummm... a mining bonus :) It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Anominity Amarr Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.14 15:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Dristra Well, if lasers have their cap use halved, and the "c(r)ap use" bonus switched with something useful i will be happy Apoc will be good, with a new bouns that is, cap amount and ummm... a mining bonus :) Don't.... make..... me..... hurt ........... you.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.14 15:50:00 - [5] why not move the cap usage bonus for the ships to the lasers instead of the ships. like large pulse laser 1: 10% less cap use for each amarr BS lvl. that would solve that problem and keep the other races from useing them...might be a good idea to decrease the PG use to. and this way we can put a usefull bonus on the ships. just my 2 isk on the matter.
wierchas noobhunter Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.14 15:51:00 - [6] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 14/05/2007 15:49:37 Originally by: Liam Fremen Edited by: Liam Fremen on 14/05/2007 13:52:10 Apocalypse still make the cheaper dual large t2 repper tank that run continuously without any expensive module and without nosferatu!! (dominix do it too but not forever without nosferatu) Projectile weapons (or lasers break the tank) 4x eutetic cap recharger 2x Large Repper t2 1x Beta cap power relay 4x Active hardeners without any rigs or anything else it just run forever like this. Good and cheap for plex tanking and similar stuff. i hate carebear's always thinking about there complex tanking and stuff ...
Rosalina Sarinna KHM Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.14 15:52:00 - [7] Call me stupid maybe, but I like the Apoc just the way it is More cap ftw.... Geddon is a real sweet choice too, and its cheap which makes it really good as a suicide pvp ship
snijder Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:07:00 - [8] i think the geddon is very good because her drone bay and her 8 low slots and with the cpu their i have no problem with it the 3 med slots i just 3 cap recharger but its slow i fly missions with it but the abaddon is very good too
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:38:00 - [9] Apoc is good for 3 things, smartbombs, medic and mining. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day
Paigan Amarr Thirdwave	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:46:00 - [10] Tux somewhere said that amarr are going to be buffed in terms of being the "cap"race and that this would mean some kind of nos bonus but that before that, nos would have to be balanced. My guess is: 1.) Nosferatus get sig resolution 2.) Laser get half cap use 3.) Laser cap use bonus switched to +10% nos drain per level or something like that. Of course it will probably come completely different (maybe still useful), but anyway, not with Rev 2.0, i guess. -- This game is still in beta stage
VanDam Caldari Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.14 17:44:00 - [11] i agree, amarr are really underpowered, there dmg is to predictable and the cap usage is insane. New ammo for amarr would be nice maybe with diffrent damage types and decrease the cap usage for guns. Only amarr ship i like to fly atm is the curse and pilgrim and somtimes the absolution but the others are not on par with the other race bs's
Sylek Amarr Bleak Cabal Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.05.14 18:11:00 - [12] Edited by: Sylek on 14/05/2007 18:36:27 The Armageddon is very good I think for a tier 1 BS. It can tank and set up for decent DPS and still tank good. The lack of medslots make it less viable as a solo ship, but what the hell, it's a tier 1 BS, it's cheap. Oh and it's the best Amarr ship because it has room for 5 heavy drones. (This is assuming you have at least BS 4 to make the lasers usable) The Apoc is kind of crappy compared to the armageddon and most other Tier 2 BSes. It does less damage than the apoc, can tank a little better because of the extra cap, one more med, one less low, 3000 more PG (armageddon with a built-in T2 RCU and an extra med). Compared to the Tempest, Raven and Megathron the Apoc does the least damage, and is really only viable for killing Sansha, and even if you're doing that the armageddon is better. (this also assumes you have BS 4 so you can deal damage while tanking) The Abaddon looks nice, but really isn't all too nice. It'll deal a little bit more damage than the armageddon, and that's only because it has more base PG, making Mega Pulses easier to fit rather than Dual heavies, which I normally use on the geddon. The damage bonus is nice for putting things in your bio, but it isn't any better than the geddon bonus. Now, the armor resistance bonus, that's useful. The Abaddon is really good at tanking, except obviously that if it starts shooting you need a cap recharge time of around 300-400 sec to keep your lasers running, plus some nosses and maybe an injector to run a dual-rep tank. To make the Abaddon viable for close combat you need at least 3 cap rigs, there's an extra 70m. Even for sniping, if you don't want to spend around 5 slots to cap recharge, you're going to have to use all the rig slots for cap stuff. Tachyons take enough cap already, a ship with 8 of them and no cap bonus is just silly. I don't like it for solo PvP because it costs so damn much to rig it up and fit properly. I lost one recently and there's no way I'm getting another one soon. Other Amarr ships are good: Curse, Absolution Some Amarr ships are just crap compared to other counterparts: The Harbinger, which does measly damage when compared to the Myrmidon or Hurricane and doesn't tank nearly as well as the Drake. Sacrilege sucks, Zealot used to be good. Crusader, Malediction are bad compared to Crow, Claw and Taranis. Sure, I've gotten some kills in a Crusader, they can kill other inties nicely but it's nearly impossible to get it to fire lasers and keep a scramble as a long range inty, and in close combat is just dies. I'd rather get a Punisher than a Vengeance and the Retribution is a PvE ship only due to 1 med. That's all the ships I can think of at any rate - Myself, I'm getting an Archon, the only Amarr ship that doesn't use lasers. Edit: Oh I forgot to mention. EM damage sucks.
Misanth X-Fire	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:38:00 - [13] I have no clue how people can fly 'geddon, at all, to be honest. I have BS5 and sometimes wish it was BS1 instead. Just shooting eats up my cap in a very short while, it's enough to shoot down 2 battleships while ratting but in PvP or something else it's not sustainable at all. At least Apoc gives an option to recharge that cap and Abaddon doesn't shoot away all cap with their bonus. Would never use anything else but an Abaddon if I was forced into a BS. Prefer the Absolution any day, for PvP, PvE, everything. Am not sure if I should regret training BS5 or if it will be glad the day I maybe train for capital ships. shrugs. I've had it since last year and the only use I've had of it so far was to play around on the test server. --- bring back the pvp to EVE --- Remove: local, non-dictor bubbles, capital ships, re-move the hp boost and: put 'nos hardpoints' (0-1 on non-amarr, 1 on amarr, 3 arbitrator and 4 amarr recons)
Thud Caldari Mad-Warping-Maniacs	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Misanth I have no clue how people can fly 'geddon, at all, to be honest. I have BS5 and sometimes wish it was BS1 instead. Sorry,but thats stupid. You have a rof AND a cap use bonus, cap use bonus is higher than the rof bonus. So,if you have bs 5,you shoot 25% faster and your guns use 50% less cap. Do the math. ____ ____ My english is bad.
Azheri Amarr The Unbeholden	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:16:00 - [15] Originally by: VanDam i agree, amarr are really underpowered, there dmg is to predictable and the cap usage is insane. New ammo for amarr would be nice maybe with diffrent damage types and decrease the cap usage for guns. Only amarr ship i like to fly atm is the curse and pilgrim and somtimes the absolution but the others are not on par with the other race bs's they toyed around with giving amarr ships explosive t2 crystals..... ofcourse the whiners won the battle on the forum and that was when i started training for gallente
Khan Soriano Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.05.15 08:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Liam Fremen Good and cheap for plex tanking and similar stuff. All complex farmers I've seen are using either Geddons (minority) or Abaddons (majority) and I don't blame them. Who tanks a plex with a bs??, 6/10 is doable solo in a Geddon (with its 'worse' tank than Apocs) and 10/10 can be tanked by a solo AF Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna Call me stupid maybe, but I like the Apoc just the way it is More cap ftw.... Geddon is a real sweet choice too, and its cheap which makes it really good as a suicide pvp ship I got a really sweet suicide pvp ship for you... Ibis. When I'm going pvp I like to win Originally by: snijder i think the geddon is very good because her drone bay and her 8 low slots and with the cpu their i have no problem with it the 3 med slots i just 3 cap recharger but its slow i fly missions with it but the abaddon is very good too Do you think that when I was talking about versatility I meant 3xCap Rechargers?? You will have cpu problems when you start using t2 stuff, granted ofc that you will stray a little from your 'nice' 3xCap setup (cap rechargers t2 use only 12cpu where a Cap Booster takes at least 40 and a propulsion mod minimum 50). Originally by: Lithalnas Apoc is good for 3 things, smartbombs, medic and mining. Smartbombs? Megathron is just as good for that and don't tell me about Apocs sustainability because any sane pvp uses 1 slot cap booster rather than dedicate half of his meds and a couple of lows to get 30-50% effect of 1 booster (and in the era of nos-warfare only cap sustainable setup is a passive shield tank on matars or caldari) Medic? I thought we had logistics ships for that. Mining? Yeah I'm soo happy that my race has a BS best suited for MINING Originally by: Sylek The Armageddon is very good I think for a tier 1 BS. It can tank and set up for decent DPS and still tank good. The lack of medslots make it less viable as a solo ship, but what the hell, it's a tier 1 BS, it's cheap. Oh and it's the best Amarr ship because it has room for 5 heavy drones. Think about Dominix and read again what you wrote. Hell think even about Typhoon, sure its DPS is crappy compared to Geddons or Dominx but with no cap usage it can actually sport a monster tank and still pwn you. Both of them are viable solo ships I don't see why Geddon shouldn't be one too. Take its stupid 8th highslot (no pg and cpu to put something there anyway) and make it a med slot!!! To all other posters: It's not a 'boost Amarr', 'change lasers damage type', 'switch laser cap bonus to something else' thread but rather 'make Geddon more versatile and fun to fit' (fun starts with at least 4 meds, look at how many ways we can fit a pilgrim or curse) and 'give Apoc some purpose besides mining'.
Almarez Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna Call me stupid maybe, but I like the Apoc just the way it is More cap ftw.... Geddon is a real sweet choice too, and its cheap which makes it really good as a suicide pvp ship My mom said if I can't say something nice about someone I shouldn't say anything at all. Seriously the Apoc is only useful for mining in 0.0 since you can tank and mine at the same time. The DPS is utter garbage, even with T2 lasers and multiple heat sinks. Both the geddon and the Abaddon are better snipers and alpha strikers. What we need is cap reduction on lasers and give a useful second bonus to Apoc and geddon. If they don't want to do that, then this is what's needed. Armageddon - help out with fitting issues. Can't fit full rack of T2 pulse without some grid help. Abaddon - bigger cargo for more cap booster charges, cause damn this thing has cap problems. Apoc - I don't know here, the real fix for this thing would be to to reduce cap usage of lasers and give a useful second bonus, like optimal range. This would make the Apoc a true sniper. Otherwise I have no idea if lasers are left as is. In all honesty, though, I wold love to see cap reduction of lasers, give Apoc optimal range bonus and geddon, maybe drone hit point/damage bonus. Bet you never thought of that one huh?
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:09:00 - [18] Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 15/05/2007 15:10:33 Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 15/05/2007 15:07:55 Originally by: Thud Originally by: Misanth I have no clue how people can fly 'geddon, at all, to be honest. I have BS5 and sometimes wish it was BS1 instead. Sorry,but thats stupid. You have a rof AND a cap use bonus, cap use bonus is higher than the rof bonus. So,if you have bs 5,you shoot 25% faster and your guns use 50% less cap. Do the math. Yeah, do the math. Rof means your guns cycle time is cut by 25% - so, you make 33% more shots per second or whatever measuring unit you use. So, the second bonus almost negates the first one. How cute!
Royaldo KVA Noble Inc. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:12:00 - [19] t2 pulse fits on arma without any grid help. yes thats both mega pulse and dual heavy pulse. But the tank is limited on mega pulse. umh... solo 6/10 sansha plex in an arma? woah! share the setup, because you wont be able to do that with against sansha lvl3 boss or final boss.
Ronja	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:33:00 - [20] lol! I'm flying Amarr and loving it! My fav ships: Geddon, Harbinger, Zealot, Absolution, Abaddon, Pilgrim, Curse Opppsie-freaking do that some ships suck. You can't have everything! The only desirable thing would be Exp\Kin ammo.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.15 22:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Royaldo t2 pulse fits on arma without any grid help. yes thats both mega pulse and dual heavy pulse. But the tank is limited on mega pulse. umh... solo 6/10 sansha plex in an arma? woah! share the setup, because you wont be able to do that with against sansha lvl3 boss or final boss. I know I can easily run blood 6/10 solo in a geddon, my best time being arround 40 minutes. This was before rigs were in game so maybe even faster now.
Khan Soriano Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.05.16 07:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Ronja lol! I'm flying Amarr and loving it! My fav ships: Geddon, Harbinger, Zealot, Absolution, Abaddon, Pilgrim, Curse Opppsie-freaking do that some ships suck. You can't have everything! The only desirable thing would be Exp\Kin ammo. So basicly when I say 'make Amarr more enjoyable', your answer is 'no thx'? Geddon could be much more fun and Apoc could use being fun at all but you just say 'I'll pass on that, who needs more fun anyway' Originally by: twit brent Originally by: Royaldo t2 pulse fits on arma without any grid help. yes thats both mega pulse and dual heavy pulse. But the tank is limited on mega pulse. umh... solo 6/10 sansha plex in an arma? woah! share the setup, because you wont be able to do that with against sansha lvl3 boss or final boss. I know I can easily run blood 6/10 solo in a geddon, my best time being arround 40 minutes. This was before rigs were in game so maybe even faster now. Was about to say the same thing, Abaddon would be even more sweet for this since it doesn't rely on drones so much in his DPS but with increased cap usage I don't think its worth it.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Misanth I have no clue how people can fly 'geddon, at all, to be honest. quote] check my True Art movie.. its from way before revelations.. its do able but its allot of hassle if you compare it to a raven.. ->My Vids<-
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:27:00 - [24] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 16/05/2007 09:25:30 Laser cap use is the main gripe I have. Indirectly this could also be called a powergrid issue, since people need to fit RCU/Powergrid rigs in order to fit competitive weapons for fleet fights. Yes im talking about tach's here, megabeams dont cut it since you need more slots tracking enhancers/rigs to remain competitive, thus making you even less versitile. Try fitting an geddon/abaddon or even a apoc to remain competitive to other races in fleet fights. Even with rigs you need 2-3 Tracking enhancer II's, since your mids are already used up by a cap booster/sensorbooster etc. Perhaps even making amarr a Laser Range race would help with cap issues - means people can remove Tracking enhancers and fit in cap mods. As it currently stands, Flying Amarr is equivalent of getting someone to neut you just for firing. -- Billion Isk Mission
Misanth X-Fire	Posted - 2007.05.16 11:49:00 - [25] Edited by: Misanth on 16/05/2007 11:48:59 Originally by: Thud Originally by: Misanth I have no clue how people can fly 'geddon, at all, to be honest. I have BS5 and sometimes wish it was BS1 instead. Sorry,but thats stupid. You have a rof AND a cap use bonus, cap use bonus is higher than the rof bonus. So,if you have bs 5,you shoot 25% faster and your guns use 50% less cap. Do the math. Embarrassing. True ofc. It probably has to do with me training other skills as well since I had bs 1-2.. but yah I agree, that is a stupid comment. >.< Fact is still I remember a year ago I could sustain my cap in long fights while today I can't, even when I'm not nossed. I simply jumped to the conclusion that stacked rof-bonuses made me shoot it away faster, as I can't see much other reason for it. If anyone got another tip of why this happens I'd be delighted to hear. o_O Feels really stupid to fly a ship where cap goes snip in short time, without even having a tank running. There's a reason I prefer running Absolution, Prophecy and Harbinger for both pvp and pve. :/ I'm quite curious as to why CCP gave us ships that can't even sustain it's own fire - I have to assume they want us to fit the geddon with nosses and just tank stuff, not shooting. Makes a bit sense considering the drone space, but not regarding its bonuses. :S the Zealot has similar issues (at least for me) as with the geddon. I either shoot or tank, either option will drain my cap fairly fast. Wish I could fit other things than ccc, cap rechargers and cprs just to be able to shoot - not to mention surviving. --- bring back the pvp to EVE --- Remove: local, non-dictor bubbles, capital ships, re-move the hp boost and: put 'nos hardpoints' (0-1 on non-amarr, 1 on amarr, 3 arbitrator and 4 amarr recons)
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.16 19:52:00 - [26] All ships will be good as soon as the cap use bonus is replaced with a real bonus (and laser cap use halved by default) It's great being Amarr isn't it.
korrey Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.16 21:21:00 - [27] Over time the Zealot has ceased to become useful. People just hopping in one will cry "Its amazing!" but it really isn't all that good. With the HP bonus, Zealot has trouble ganking, and even with 7 low slots, it still has cruiser HP and has cruiser cap. By the time you have started getting into the enemies armor, your out of cap by his numerous nos or your tank isnt holding up. Funny how all the Amarr related issues either have to do with NOS or the high cap usage of lasers. ----------- Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well.
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.16 22:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Dristra Well, if lasers have their cap use halved, and the "c(r)ap use" bonus switched with something useful i will be happy Apoc will be good, with a new bouns that is, cap amount and ummm... a mining bonus :) Yeah and if a frog had wings, he wudnt bump his ass when he hops. Meaning: good luck with your wish. :p Also to the OP, the amarr bs's arent as bad as you think, gankageddons are awesome, same for the abbadon. And bateapocs = win.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.16 23:21:00 - [29] He he, you might have noticed that i was not serious about the mining bonus, but then again, we do need it, caldari have the best mining bs now, the apoc needs to take back the throne! It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Azheri Amarr The Unbeholden	Posted - 2007.05.16 23:23:00 - [30] Originally by: korrey Over time the Zealot has ceased to become useful. People just hopping in one will cry "Its amazing!" but it really isn't all that good. With the HP bonus, Zealot has trouble ganking, and even with 7 low slots, it still has cruiser HP and has cruiser cap. By the time you have started getting into the enemies armor, your out of cap by his numerous nos or your tank isnt holding up. Funny how all the Amarr related issues either have to do with NOS or the high cap usage of lasers. dont forget 2 damage types while every other race more than often have choices to use all 4 damage types on most ships(gallente drones, caldari missiles, minnies projectiles)

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