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![Liv Dawn Liv Dawn](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1612661802/portrait?size=64)
Liv Dawn
PPN United Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.05.16 01:00:00 -
[1]
I know the bombs aint in game yet and nothing. but heres something which might be looked at:
the bombs bpo say that they do need really alot minerals. the one i checked over one million tritanium, and many other minerals in ratio. but it was just 0.01 m^3 huge and the build time was very very short. mebbe you want to make sure that it cannot be reprocessed. or frigs will be the new mineral freighters.
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![General Apocalypse General Apocalypse](https://images.evetech.net/characters/631288058/portrait?size=64)
General Apocalypse
Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.05.16 05:43:00 -
[2]
So that's a bad thing ? ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
Thank You SkyFlyer |
![Kazuo Ishiguro Kazuo Ishiguro](https://images.evetech.net/characters/903230203/portrait?size=64)
Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:15:00 -
[3]
I agree that this is something that needs looking at; the quantities you mention are for a batch of 100 bombs, not 1 bomb, but you still get a compression ratio of about 15,000:1 ![Shocked](/images/icon_eek.gif)
Since they can only be launched at 2 minute intervals (and only 1 launcher can be fitted per bomber), it would be fair to make each bomb take up ~10m^3 instead of 0.01m^3. 15:1 would still be a fairly good ratio, but as you need multiple minerals to make bombs, it wouldn't be terribly broken.
------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
![Liv Dawn Liv Dawn](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1612661802/portrait?size=64)
Liv Dawn
PPN United Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:21:00 -
[4]
Providing supplies shouldnt be something a covert can do. Besides it reduces the trade margins on minerals over eve since the transport costs would fall. If they wanted to reduce transport efforts they d simply reduce the size of minerals and not one single newly implemented item.
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![Paigan Paigan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1578505812/portrait?size=64)
Paigan
Amarr Thirdwave
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Posted - 2007.05.16 13:21:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Paigan on 16/05/2007 13:23:39 Edited by: Paigan on 16/05/2007 13:22:27 Edited by: Paigan on 16/05/2007 13:21:29 Mineral compresion as a whole badly needs to be looked at.
Some items have a compression rate of XXX to one. Last addition was the small tractor beam which needs around the same minerals as a top tier large turret (20m¦) but has only 5m¦.
Not to mention jump portal generators...
While on the other hand, there are items that hardly need any minerals but are rather HUGE.
Reasonable (as far as both realism but even more important: game mechanic are concearned) would be that NOTHING can have a compression rate of higher than 1 (meaning no built item can be SMALLER than the minerals it is composed of)
But hey... reasonable game mechanics... ^^
Connected to this issue is the very weird fact, that most items are only (moreless) 5m¦ large. No matter if they're internal ship system modifiers or frigate- oder BS-sized modules. Only a few are bigger than 5m¦, mostly only weapon systems, but even those are way to small.
Normally, if a frigate weapon has a size of 5m¦, i'd expect a cruiser weapon to have 50m¦ and a BS weapon to have 500m¦. With adjusted cargoholds, of course.
To cut a long story short:
The whole topic of item volumes / mineral needs / cargoholds is still in a very EARLY beta stage in this game. Like so many other things.
And i bet 1bil isk that it'll never be redone to reach proper release quality.
Instead, the devs keep introducing more and more items with even higher compression rates every time. -- This game is still in beta stage |
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![CCP Chronotis CCP Chronotis](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1258087389/portrait?size=64)
CCP Chronotis
![](/images/icon_dev.gif)
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:14:00 -
[6]
Nerf Bat strikes BomB Mineral Compression wrecking for a gajillion damage.
dont take anything on sisi as set in stone as some stuff is not ready for release yet and many things are likely to change before we arrive at the release candidate.
Bombs wont be uber mineral compressors come patch day :)
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![William Alex William Alex](https://images.evetech.net/characters/741822610/portrait?size=64)
William Alex
Caldari Viscosity Dark Synergy
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Posted - 2007.05.16 20:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Paigan Edited by: Paigan on 16/05/2007 13:23:39 Edited by: Paigan on 16/05/2007 13:22:27 Edited by: Paigan on 16/05/2007 13:21:29 Mineral compresion as a whole badly needs to be looked at.
Some items have a compression rate of XXX to one. Last addition was the small tractor beam which needs around the same minerals as a top tier large turret (20m¦) but has only 5m¦.
Not to mention jump portal generators...
While on the other hand, there are items that hardly need any minerals but are rather HUGE.
Reasonable (as far as both realism but even more important: game mechanic are concearned) would be that NOTHING can have a compression rate of higher than 1 (meaning no built item can be SMALLER than the minerals it is composed of)
But hey... reasonable game mechanics... ^^
Connected to this issue is the very weird fact, that most items are only (moreless) 5m¦ large. No matter if they're internal ship system modifiers or frigate- oder BS-sized modules. Only a few are bigger than 5m¦, mostly only weapon systems, but even those are way to small.
Normally, if a frigate weapon has a size of 5m¦, i'd expect a cruiser weapon to have 50m¦ and a BS weapon to have 500m¦. With adjusted cargoholds, of course.
To cut a long story short:
The whole topic of item volumes / mineral needs / cargoholds is still in a very EARLY beta stage in this game. Like so many other things.
And i bet 1bil isk that it'll never be redone to reach proper release quality.
Instead, the devs keep introducing more and more items with even higher compression rates every time.
There is a point where 'realism' needs to take a back seat to playability.
As it is, loot fills your cargo hold extremely fast. This impacts both PvE and PvP.
Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it.
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![VaderDSL VaderDSL](https://images.evetech.net/characters/848967158/portrait?size=64)
VaderDSL
Caldari Incoherent Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.16 20:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: General Apocalypse So that's a bad thing ? ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
Bwuahaha oh man your sig is the best I've ever seen :D been laughing for nigh on quarter of an hour here
sorry to go ot
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![Paigan Paigan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1578505812/portrait?size=64)
Paigan
Amarr Thirdwave
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Posted - 2007.05.16 22:13:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Paigan on 16/05/2007 22:12:55
Originally by: William Alex
There is a point where 'realism' needs to take a back seat to playability.
As it is, loot fills your cargo hold extremely fast. This impacts both PvE and PvP.
If you had read properly instead of just saying "omg another one i can speak against, yeah" you would have read that i PRIMARILY spoke about game mechanics and only as a side node about realism.
- Modules for bigger ships shouldn't fit into tiny ships' cargohold in numerous amounts (like 10+). Making transportation of equipment for big ships adequately ... big, you know.
- Modules consisting of 1000 times of an ingame material than another module shouldn't have just the same size.
- Modules shoudn't offer an abusive way to "compress" minerals to transport them. This makes mining even more uneconomical then it is anyway.
And THEN, on a side note, realism comes in. Which, as many times, would go hand in hand with BETTER playability/balance then today, IF done right. But the MAIN issue is purely in game mechanics.
I really wonder why every time i speak about bad influences on GAME MECHANICS, someone comes and says "don't stick to realism so convulsive". Is it because of bad writing or hasty reading or hasty thinking or ... what is this, every time? -- This game is still in beta stage |
![Tweekism Tweekism](https://images.evetech.net/characters/137985830/portrait?size=64)
Tweekism
Caldari Tweek 'n' Co
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Posted - 2007.05.17 05:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Paigan
I really wonder why every time i speak about bad influences on GAME MECHANICS, someone comes and says "don't stick to realism so convulsive". Is it because of bad writing or hasty reading or hasty thinking or ... what is this, every time?
Besides, EVE being a semi-serious Space game, you'll find a bit of realism will actually ADD to game play rather the detract from it. This is as good example as any... if this had of been done realisticlly from the start, this thread wouldn't exsist because you wouldn't have a compression ratio of 15,000:1 because in reality this just doesn't make sense.
In the end, although 500m3 sounds a lot bigger than 5m3, its not all that crazy when you consider the size difference between a frig and a BS, and given that:
5m3 = 1.7 x 1.7 x 1.7 metre cube; and 500m3 = 8 x 8 x 8 metre cube approximatly
so its not really 100 times bigger, its more like... 4 times bigger... sort of, lol
Anyway I know this is all a moot point since CCP Chronotis said its getting changed, I just felt like putting in my 2 ISK, since everyone else does.
To quote J. Michael Straczynski (for those that don't know, he a writter who did, amoung other things, the TV show "Babylon 5")
Quote:
...We're trying, consistently, to ask "How would this work in reality? What are the SCIENCE considerations in doing SF?" In general, we've found that if you Ask The Next Question and try to be logical, you get MORE options, and you get more INTERESTING options than if you just throw all that to the winds. Often networks (refering to TV networks) say, "Ah, screw the science on it, you'll just limit yourself." Not true.
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![Glarion Garnier Glarion Garnier](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1324948841/portrait?size=64)
Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.05.17 09:21:00 -
[11]
Hey lets not whine all the time ok.
Mineral compression is nice aspec of eve.
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![ghosttr ghosttr](https://images.evetech.net/characters/168453585/portrait?size=64)
ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.17 09:25:00 -
[12]
Talking about mineral compression, are we gonna get any items 'designed' for the compression of minerals?
Like having bars of veld![Shocked](/images/icon_eek.gif)
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![Dark Shikari Dark Shikari](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1765543329/portrait?size=64)
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.17 09:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: ghosttr Talking about mineral compression, are we gonna get any items 'designed' for the compression of minerals?
Like having bars of veld![Shocked](/images/icon_eek.gif)
Yeah, its called Tractor Beams and Jump Portal Generators ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif)
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
![JanSVK JanSVK](https://images.evetech.net/characters/920614791/portrait?size=64)
JanSVK
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Posted - 2007.05.17 11:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: ghosttr Talking about mineral compression, are we gonna get any items 'designed' for the compression of minerals?
Like having bars of veld![Shocked](/images/icon_eek.gif)
Yeah, its called Tractor Beams and Jump Portal Generators ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif)
Only problem is that if in 0.0 and you dont own your own outpost with reprocessing facility or have access to NPC with high standing and reprocessing facility you have to pay 10% for reprocessing some times more IF you lucky and got an outpos in range. So great for big alliance, useless for smaller ppl. Tractor with curren trit,pye prices is 1.4 mil "CCP thanks by the way for screwing 0.0 mining and helping macro miners make even more isk really regretting that I finally got into a system with crokite and trained skills to mine it". Paying at least 140 000 isk to haul 100K trit and 25K pye is too much in my opinion.
No offense CCP.
JanSVK
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![Athanasios Anastasiou Athanasios Anastasiou](https://images.evetech.net/characters/315791442/portrait?size=64)
Athanasios Anastasiou
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.19 22:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: JanSVK
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: ghosttr Talking about mineral compression, are we gonna get any items 'designed' for the compression of minerals?
Like having bars of veld![Shocked](/images/icon_eek.gif)
Yeah, its called Tractor Beams and Jump Portal Generators ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif)
Only problem is that if in 0.0 and you dont own your own outpost with reprocessing facility or have access to NPC with high standing and reprocessing facility you have to pay 10% for reprocessing some times more IF you lucky and got an outpos in range. So great for big alliance, useless for smaller ppl. Tractor with curren trit,pye prices is 1.4 mil "CCP thanks by the way for screwing 0.0 mining and helping macro miners make even more isk really regretting that I finally got into a system with crokite and trained skills to mine it". Paying at least 140 000 isk to haul 100K trit and 25K pye is too much in my opinion.
No offense CCP.
JanSVK
Or... you can do it the normal way. Nobody is forcing you to use compression. Think of it as a trade off. You either have to do less work but get less minerals, or do more work and not pay the reprocessing fee.
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![Glarion Garnier Glarion Garnier](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1324948841/portrait?size=64)
Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.05.20 08:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Liv Dawn I know the bombs aint in game yet and nothing. but heres something which might be looked at:
the bombs bpo say that they do need really alot minerals. the one i checked over one million tritanium, and many other minerals in ratio. but it was just 0.01 m^3 huge and the build time was very very short. mebbe you want to make sure that it cannot be reprocessed. or frigs will be the new mineral freighters.
All these whiners should form their own alliance.
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![Liv Dawn Liv Dawn](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1612661802/portrait?size=64)
Liv Dawn
PPN United Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.05.20 15:14:00 -
[17]
Where if not in the development forum do you expect people posting about their game experience on sisi? Dare to discuss or please spare us with senseless comments.
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