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Fluffy Moe
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2017.06.05 02:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all
I'm currently looking at ships for L4 sec missions, but I really really hate battleships due to lack of movement speed. Just absolutely can't stand them. Their pace is just too slow for me to the point where I'd rather quit playing then have to run them.
Right now I can fly Gallente cruisers with good effectiveness, recon, assault, T3 (Proteus). Have pretty decent drone and hybrid skills along with the necessary support skills for them.
Caldari and Amarr ships less so, don't have T2 heavy missiles and above just yet, and my laser skills above small are abysmal.
Minmitar ships I completely ignore because I don't like the way they look and feel while flying. Likewise, my arty skills are non existant.
I can do some of the L4s in a "sniping" drake using T1 cruise launchers with faction ammo, but it takes forever and I can do only the easy ones.
In addition, I will be moving back to null / low, so it is highly preferable that whatever ships I end up training need to have some decent PVP variant fits available as well.
So.....
Throw some ideas at me, experiences, feedback, comments, fits
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Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - ChickenSandwich
Aporkalypse Now
171
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Posted - 2017.06.05 02:34:15 -
[2] - Quote
Ishtar or Gila for you then. |
Fluffy Moe
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2017.06.05 03:49:17 -
[3] - Quote
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:Ishtar or Gila for you then.
I fly Gila as my main ship right now, its ideal for L3s, but on L4s it seriously lacks no matter how much I played around with fits and looked them up on sites like osmium etc., it just doesnt have the tank.
Ishtar I was kinda looking at and messing around with fits, but have not commited to it yet. I should have said my drone skills are pretty good, but up to heavies, dont have T2 sentries yet and won't for a fairly long time. So without the T2 sentries the Ishtar I am able to fit and fly offers only some improvement over the Gila. It will be problematic for me to do L4s in it. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1223
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Posted - 2017.06.05 05:06:52 -
[4] - Quote
Sentry Domi's a pretty good starting point (and ending point actually) for some L4 mission runners. That would be my suggestion. Most of the top tier L4 runner ships are battleships, so no point in not starting to look into training some large weapons and racial BS skills. In the case of the aforementioned ship, you'll need armor, Gallente, and drone (specifically sentries) trained. I'd normally recommend the Rattler more so than the Domi, but the Domi more closely resembles what it sounds like you're looking for. Also, look into getting an MJD and spec into the Micro Jump Drive Operation skill. Works nicely with a sentry Domi from what I hear.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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ValentinaDLM
Khushakor Clan
Of Questionable Repute
970
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Posted - 2017.06.05 06:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fluffy Moe wrote:Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:Ishtar or Gila for you then. I fly Gila as my main ship right now, its ideal for L3s, but on L4s it seriously lacks no matter how much I played around with fits and looked them up on sites like osmium etc., it just doesnt have the tank. Ishtar I was kinda looking at and messing around with fits, but have not commited to it yet. I should have said my drone skills are pretty good, but up to heavies, dont have T2 sentries yet and won't for a fairly long time. So without the T2 sentries the Ishtar I am able to fit and fly offers only some improvement over the Gila. It will be problematic for me to do L4s in it.
I have ran hundreds of missions in an Arbitraor, and a caracal lol, the Gila is more than sufficient to survive any l4 mission, or for that matter any null anom. 100mn AB gila can survive with very low skills, but 10mn works fine too, so long as you pay attention to where you are flying. if you are trying to sit still and face tank the damage, almost no cruiser works, but if you simply turn your AB on and get to range, almost any cruiser with a passive shield tank will breeze through any non gurista mission. This does ofc mean killig web frigates and towers to be the most important thing.
As to the Original question, especially if you are moving to null the ships you want are the VNI, Ishtar, and Gila. The 100mn shield buffer VNI is probably the most common entry level anom runner around, the Ishtar and Gila are very solid choices as well.
tl;dr: it is about damage rats can apply to you not how much you can tank. |
Fluffy Moe
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2017.06.05 09:17:09 -
[6] - Quote
ValentinaDLM wrote:Fluffy Moe wrote:Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:Ishtar or Gila for you then. I fly Gila as my main ship right now, its ideal for L3s, but on L4s it seriously lacks no matter how much I played around with fits and looked them up on sites like osmium etc., it just doesnt have the tank. Ishtar I was kinda looking at and messing around with fits, but have not commited to it yet. I should have said my drone skills are pretty good, but up to heavies, dont have T2 sentries yet and won't for a fairly long time. So without the T2 sentries the Ishtar I am able to fit and fly offers only some improvement over the Gila. It will be problematic for me to do L4s in it. I have ran hundreds of missions in an Arbitraor, and a caracal lol, the Gila is more than sufficient to survive any l4 mission, or for that matter any null anom. 100mn AB gila can survive with very low skills, but 10mn works fine too, so long as you pay attention to where you are flying. if you are trying to sit still and face tank the damage, almost no cruiser works, but if you simply turn your AB on and get to range, almost any cruiser with a passive shield tank will breeze through any non gurista mission. This does ofc mean killig web frigates and towers to be the most important thing. As to the Original question, especially if you are moving to null the ships you want are the VNI, Ishtar, and Gila. The 100mn shield buffer VNI is probably the most common entry level anom runner around, the Ishtar and Gila are very solid choices as well. tl;dr: it is about damage rats can apply to you not how much you can tank.
I understand sig tanking, movement, transversal etc. and have done both 10mn and 100mn fits. Problems I ran into is that on many L4s I get webbed / scrammed too much for that to work. Can't take out all the sources of the webs fast enough thus severly limiting my mission choices.
I do not need a tank as big as a battleship, just some more then I am currently getting to take those out.
I'm really hoping there are some other options I haven't thought of just yet.
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Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 09:33:58 -
[7] - Quote
battleships are the best ships for lv4 mission running
no other ship type is as good
if you refuse to fly BS then you should accept that running them will be harder/slower/ more annoying than it could have been
try a machariel for speed and handling- you might like it |
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
87
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 10:00:04 -
[8] - Quote
post your fits and describe your "mission way". |
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
1622
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 11:44:03 -
[9] - Quote
Passive AB Gila with RLML's
Use the missiles for the frigates & cruiser spawns, drones for the BC's & BS's
L4 missions are not hard in a Gila
you wont be doing the AE4 bonus room however
easy way to fit a Gila
high slots
- Missile Launchers
mid slots
- 2 shield hardeners
- some shield extenders
- an AB
- #optional drone navigation module + script
- #optional target painter
low slots
- some dda's
- #optional drone tracking module
- #optional shield recharge-rate module
rig's
- Purgers |
Abaddon primi
Primi Enterprise
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 11:54:40 -
[10] - Quote
Tam Arai wrote:battleships are the best ships for lv4 mission running
no other ship type is as good
if you refuse to fly BS then you should accept that running them will be harder/slower/ more annoying than it could have been
try a machariel for speed and handling- you might like it
Yes!
Although once you go Machariel you can never go back :P
Machariel agility and speed seems like in a cruiser. Especially with few implants.
Tried Raven just for nostalgias sake and it was frustratingly slow. |
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Muffinmixer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 18:59:44 -
[11] - Quote
The Gila shouldn't have any issue tanking L4 missions. Just don't sit still, orbit something or just move around at all times and let your signature radius do most of the tanking for you.
Also, if you are disgruntled with the slowness of L4 missions, you should check out Anomic Missions aka Burners. You need to run those in frigates mostly, sometimes cruisers, and they are very fast and arguably waaaay more profitable than regular L4s. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
256
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 19:43:57 -
[12] - Quote
Tam Arai wrote:battleships are the best ships for lv4 mission running
no other ship type is as good
if you refuse to fly BS then you should accept that running them will be harder/slower/ more annoying than it could have been
try a machariel for speed and handling- you might like it
She beat me to this. Some time ago I too thought battleships are meh... until I trained all necessary skills and gained some actual experience.
But if you're still hell bent on cruiser sized hull, I might recommend Proteus, which you mentioned you can fly. Depending on subsystem configuration you can make it almost-Ishtar or Deimos-on-steroids. Both options with crazy tank, good speed and damage application. Though it may change with the upcoming T3C rebalance so have fun while it lasts.
Also mentioned Ishtar. It is possible to run missions with heavies but you have to be very cautious with them getting aggro.
Lat but not least, maybe consider battlecruisers or command ships? With your drone skills Myrmidon and Eos should be natural progression. |
Eleanor Roscommon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2017.06.05 23:08:54 -
[13] - Quote
Look into a active tanked Tengu, with Fury heavies.
They used to be very good before the nerf, but will still work today.
A Raven will do L4s faster though, and moving around in the mission is not necessary. |
Lord Rolfski
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 11:12:09 -
[14] - Quote
As an alpha clone I've done a lot of searching for T1/faction cruiser fits that can do Lvl4 missions and I've come to the conclusion that it simply can't be done. At least not all of them and definitely not effectively. Nor did I read about T2/T3 cruiser variants that were widely highly recommended for this.
Maybe use battecruisers? |
Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
105
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 14:08:13 -
[15] - Quote
Rolfski, if you are asking for yourself, the only battlecruiser an Alpha can fly is the Gnosis. Every other battlecruiser has minimum skill requirements that an Alpha cannot train for.
The good news is that the Gnosis is a decent battlecruiser. It has bonuses for every weapon system in the game that a player can use, it can be shield or armour tanked, it has decent speed and it has enough drone bandwidth to control 5 medium drones (Alphas cannot train for heavy or sentry drones AFAIK).
The bad news is that the Gnosis is more expensive than the tech 1 battlecruisers from the main empires. The Gnosis is not built by players, it's given to players by CCP for special occasions, which limits how many of them are in the game. The other bad news about the Gnosis is that it costs more to insure one than you will get back as an insurance payout if you lose it, so a Gnosis Is really not worth insuring.
As for the OP, maybe try a battlecruiser. Some L4 missions have fairly intense incoming DPS at the start of the mission, so if you don't have a battleship class tank or close to it, you might want to be careful which missions you accept.
Even so, most battlecruisers will not handle all L4 missions equally well. As I said to the OP, some L4's throw a lot of DPS at you early in the mission, and an Alpha will not be able to unlock the full potential of a Gnosis due to limits on skill training. You would need to be careful while you are learning which L4's you should avoid. |
Muffinmixer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.22 12:34:33 -
[16] - Quote
You really want to be a Gallente or Amarr Alpha to make the most out of the Gnosis. Those two races can actually use both of their Alpha Weapons simultaneously (Hybrids/Lasers in the hislots + drones from the drone bay), while minmattar and caldari must choose between their primary racial weapon (projectiles/hybrids) and missiles for the Gnosis. |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
54
|
Posted - 2017.06.22 13:55:13 -
[17] - Quote
give the AC mach a try.
something like
https://o.smium.org/loadout/147213 |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
606
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 16:43:37 -
[18] - Quote
Fluffy Moe wrote: drake using T1 cruise launchers
when did this happen?
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first!
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Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
606
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 16:50:10 -
[19] - Quote
Fluffy Moe wrote:
I understand sig tanking, movement, transversal etc. and have done both 10mn and 100mn fits. Problems I ran into is that on many L4s I get webbed / scrammed too much for that to work. Can't take out all the sources of the webs fast enough thus severly limiting my mission choices.
I do not need a tank as big as a battleship, just some more then I am currently getting to take those out.
I'm really hoping there are some other options I haven't thought of just yet.
Did they take micro jump drives out of the game?
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first!
|
Mark Remillard
The Mental Man Project
9
|
Posted - 2017.06.26 21:40:30 -
[20] - Quote
I am seeing a bunch of unfortunate irony in your situation.
1) You want to Level 4 missions efficiently but...
2) You don't want to use the best choice (Battleships) because...
3) Battleships move to slow.
4) There is an exception to this (The Machariel moves faster than some battlecruisers), unfortunately...
5) You don't like the aesthetics of Minamatar design so you have not trained its weapon system.
My general impression of ship design is that the minnie ships tend to be slightly faster. The alternative for sustaining higher speed is downgrading to smaller hulls (command ships and cruisers). Downside there is that you lose damage and become more fragile.
Would a battleship fitting with near stable MWD usage be sufficient speed for you? |
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Cathablia Sarain
Broke-Ass Agency
4
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Posted - 2017.07.21 05:00:59 -
[21] - Quote
sucks that you dislike battleships and even minmatar..
in that .. i use the typhoon T1 battleship.
armor, missile drone setup.
and with a MWD it's quite fast, and to the point i can't see myself in a other ship.
it's really can cover any type of npc space.. it can hit all the damage softness times.
with the T2 setup i have.. and 1 deadspace armor rep.. i can tank about 550-600 dps depending on damage type..
about 1k dps with missiles and drones..
and the setup is maybe the best lazy gameplay i can make.. i can sit one spot and let the range of the missiles do the work and drones for smaller targets..
and with sentry drones.. if they are in range.. they mostly get oneshot..
and after clearing a room.. i just mwd over to the next gate.. or back to station.. and with a Loot'o'mat 5000.. i dont really need to fly around or drag the wrecks myself.. and can salvage the loots myself quite fast..
the typhoon has a mwd speed of 1.2k'esh |
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Rebel's Without A Cause
184
|
Posted - 2017.07.22 06:35:45 -
[22] - Quote
battleships are still slow even if you can get 2k m/s with a MWD on... in terms of locking time, warping speed, acceleration and align time. Machariel is a bit better, but you probably still need to speed fit it to match some of the faster cruisers.
Maybe try a blingy T3C then? and probably decline those missions requiring you to kill a lot of stuff. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
259
|
Posted - 2017.07.22 20:30:30 -
[23] - Quote
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:battleships are still slow even if you can get 2k m/s with a MWD on... in terms of locking time, warping speed, acceleration and align time.
20-minute ticks tell different story. |
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Rebel's Without A Cause
184
|
Posted - 2017.07.23 05:01:07 -
[24] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:battleships are still slow even if you can get 2k m/s with a MWD on... in terms of locking time, warping speed, acceleration and align time. 20-minute ticks tell different story.
depends on the mission. |
Fluffy Moe
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2017.07.23 06:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
I gave up on it. Frankly speaking, the amount of time it takes to train up battleships + their respective heavy guns or whatever else systems to be efficient, I'm not even sure I will be playing this game that long. Just not worth it.
I will give some burners a go, as the skillset is largely the same except ship skills (all assault and racial frigs at 5) as the other stuff I do. And level 5 frigs and their weapons and tank at lvl 5s are no where near as time consuming as level 5 battleships. We'll see how it goes.
And if I get to a point where I can't self sustain my PvP losses of off NPC kills while paying a basic sub (ratting, missions, whatever) then I guess its time to uninstall and call it quits. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
259
|
Posted - 2017.07.23 10:29:54 -
[26] - Quote
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:hmskrecik wrote:Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:battleships are still slow even if you can get 2k m/s with a MWD on... in terms of locking time, warping speed, acceleration and align time. 20-minute ticks tell different story. depends on the mission.
I'm talking about full clears obviously. :) |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
259
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Posted - 2017.07.23 10:31:36 -
[27] - Quote
Fluffy Moe wrote:[....] the amount of time it takes to train up battleships + their respective heavy guns or whatever else systems to be efficient, I'm not even sure I will be playing this game that long. Just not worth it.
There is nothing preventing you to train them WHILE you fly lighter stuff. It's your choice anyway. |
Cross Strike
Strike Alliance
1
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Posted - 2017.07.24 18:46:14 -
[28] - Quote
I love my ishtar... started using it more than my kronos lately. I pick and choose my lvl 4 missions tho. I mostly use my ishtar on single pocket missions |
guigui lechat
the no fock given
59
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Posted - 2017.07.30 10:57:35 -
[29] - Quote
Fluffy Moe wrote:I gave up on it. Frankly speaking, the amount of time it takes to train up battleships + their respective heavy guns or whatever else systems to be efficient, I'm not even sure I will be playing this game that long. Just not worth it.
I will give some burners a go, as the skillset is largely the same except ship skills (all assault and racial frigs at 5) as the other stuff I do. And level 5 frigs and their weapons and tank at lvl 5s are no where near as time consuming as level 5 battleships. We'll see how it goes.
And if I get to a point where I can't self sustain my PvP losses of off NPC kills while paying a basic sub (ratting, missions, whatever) then I guess its time to uninstall and call it quits.
if you think training for BS is too long, dont train for burners. |
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