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Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1027
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Posted - 2017.06.08 06:39:32 -
[1] - Quote
CONCORD TASKFORCE PEGASUS CONFIRMED LOST IN DRONE REGIONS
Lina Ambre wrote:YULAI GÇô CONCORD's Directive Enforcement Department has confirmed the loss of a specialist taskforce deployed to investigate rogue drone activity across the Oasa, Malpais and Etherium Reach regions. The DED's Special Projects Office has offically listed Taskforce Pegasus as lost following cessation of all communications three days ago. "Regrettably Taskforce Pegasus is now overdue on its third daily communication checkpoint and we must therefore declare the fleet led by the flagship Pegasus as lost with all hands missing in action," announced Chief of Operations Sato Kyrin of the Special Projects Office. Pressed for details of the purpose of the Taskforce Pegasus mission, Chief Ops. Kyrin would only state that, "the taskforce was assigned to investigate signs of increased and changing rogue drone activity in that theater of operations." The Scope understands that the Pegasus and its fleet had been tasked to investigate The Spire region in addition to Etherium Reach, Oasa and Malpais but communications were lost before the exploration tour could be completed. Chief Ops. Kyrin declined to comment further on the nature of the change in rogue drone activity detected by DED monitoring stations. Despite their presence throughout New Eden, and the severe infestations in the "Drone Regions", the levels of rogue drone activity have been relatively contained since the major outbreaks that led to the Code Aria Inquiry of YC109. The Code Aria Inquiry report was subsequently leaked in early YC110 and is available through the Scope's GalNet archive.
Goddess of the IGS
As strength goes.
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Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
2482
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Posted - 2017.06.08 06:59:36 -
[2] - Quote
Taskforce lost, presumed eaten by Rogue Drones.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3230
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Posted - 2017.06.08 07:05:06 -
[3] - Quote
So these gallentean creations are still at large.
I believe that the Federation is obliged to recuperate CONCORD losses they suffered against Rogue Drone menace.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2332
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Posted - 2017.06.08 10:42:10 -
[4] - Quote
If it turns out that this is somehow connected with Synthia's scheme to enlighten the Rogue Drones by sending them religious study materials, then I think I will need a lie down in a darkened room to recover.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1190
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Posted - 2017.06.08 11:26:25 -
[5] - Quote
Not good. It always has seemed strange to me how the rogue drones are ignored. Self-replicating advanced AI is not the kind of thing you want to just leave unobserved for several years..
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
4001
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Posted - 2017.06.08 14:23:17 -
[6] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Not good. It always has seemed strange to me how the rogue drones are ignored. Self-replicating advanced AI is not the kind of thing you want to just leave unobserved for several years..
True, but, they don't seem to act with any rhyme or reason on the larger scale. It's less like we're facing a single entity than like we have colonies of very large ants scattered here and there (and a whole lot in the "drone regions") that sometimes eat ships.
They do talk, though. I ... don't know how I know that; I don't remember them talking to me. It's one of those "facts" I'm pretty sure of, though. For some reason. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
917
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Posted - 2017.06.08 14:27:38 -
[7] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Not good. It always has seemed strange to me how the rogue drones are ignored. Self-replicating advanced AI is not the kind of thing you want to just leave unobserved for several years..
I doubt they have been left completely unobserved - after all there is a considerable capsuleer (and the "ground crew") presence there.
But I concur, and I personally consider the rogue drones the ultimate threat to our part of the galaxy - eventually perhaps the whole known universe, given enough time. As far as I know they can't be reasoned with, and they are driven to the best of our knowledge by the need to self-replicate, as a means of self-preservation. And the most unnerving thing about it is that they aren't intentionally malicious, but in fact they just don't care, and everything we are or what we've built are just resources to be converted to them. |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1030
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Posted - 2017.06.08 14:39:40 -
[8] - Quote
They are no more of a threat to humanity than any naturally-evolved species. Only one that lives in the environment of space.
Calling them the "ultimate threat" to our cluster or the known universe is an insane level of alarmism.
If CONCORD sent a team into the jungle to study the animals in their habitat there and they succumed to natural predation would you claim the birds and apes were the "ultimate threat to the universe?"
Goddess of the IGS
As strength goes.
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Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
482
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Posted - 2017.06.08 15:03:11 -
[9] - Quote
I've heard some birds are capable of pecking the eyes out of your head.
Queen of Chocolate
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations M.A.D. Consortium
268
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Posted - 2017.06.08 15:10:18 -
[10] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:If it turns out that this is somehow connected with Synthia's scheme to enlighten the Rogue Drones by sending them religious study materials, then I think I will need a lie down in a darkened room to recover.
Wait she was trying to communicate with them?
We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
7739
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Posted - 2017.06.08 16:12:48 -
[11] - Quote
Everyday there's something new to shoot.
My hopes are that CONCORD will investigate the loss of this taskforce so that we can assess the threat and move to counter it.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2338
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Posted - 2017.06.08 17:10:55 -
[12] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:Valerie Valate wrote:If it turns out that this is somehow connected with Synthia's scheme to enlighten the Rogue Drones by sending them religious study materials, then I think I will need a lie down in a darkened room to recover. Wait she was trying to communicate with them?
Merely communicate with them ? No.
Synthia wants to Reclaim them.
Because, as the Apocryphon says: All are welcome in Gods Kingdom.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations M.A.D. Consortium
270
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Posted - 2017.06.08 18:07:18 -
[13] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Casserina Leshrac wrote:Valerie Valate wrote:If it turns out that this is somehow connected with Synthia's scheme to enlighten the Rogue Drones by sending them religious study materials, then I think I will need a lie down in a darkened room to recover. Wait she was trying to communicate with them? Merely communicate with them ? No. Synthia wants to Reclaim them. Because, as the Apocryphon says: All are welcome in Gods Kingdom.
Who am I to argue with her?
Might be interesting to see if the Faith takes to the drones.
We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1197
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Posted - 2017.06.08 18:08:46 -
[14] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Jason Galente wrote:Not good. It always has seemed strange to me how the rogue drones are ignored. Self-replicating advanced AI is not the kind of thing you want to just leave unobserved for several years.. True, but, they don't seem to act with any rhyme or reason on the larger scale.
They don't need to. Almost all of humanity's historical existential threats have been more or less enigmatic to us, or visibly without large scale impetus besides an extremely aggressive sense of self-preservation. That's all it takes. Purpose is a distinctly human phenomenon. I would argue it's in fact what makes us human.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1197
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Posted - 2017.06.08 18:13:34 -
[15] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Jason Galente wrote:Not good. It always has seemed strange to me how the rogue drones are ignored. Self-replicating advanced AI is not the kind of thing you want to just leave unobserved for several years.. I doubt they have been left completely unobserved - after all there is a considerable capsuleer (and the "ground crew") presence there. But I concur, and I personally consider the rogue drones the ultimate threat to our part of the galaxy - eventually perhaps the whole known universe, given enough time. As far as I know they can't be reasoned with, and they are driven to the best of our knowledge by the need to self-replicate, as a means of self-preservation. And the most unnerving thing about it is that they aren't intentionally malicious, but in fact they just don't care, and everything we are or what we've built are just resources to be converted to them.
Yep. Their relationship to us, unconsciously, is almost identical to ours with Sleepers. A resource to be converted, not through intentional malice, but through a sort of destructive indifference.
It remains to be seen if the rogue drones will get that time needed to make the analogy a more accurate one when it comes to firepower and adaptability rather than just attitude. For all our sakes, I hope the future threat they pose is stamped out one way or another before that happens, or at the very least, that our growth rate surpasses theirs for the foreseeable future..
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1197
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Posted - 2017.06.08 18:33:34 -
[16] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:They are no more of a threat to humanity than any naturally-evolved species. Only one that lives in the environment of space.
Calling them the "ultimate threat" to our cluster or the known universe is an insane level of alarmism.
If CONCORD sent a team into the jungle to study the animals in their habitat there and they succumed to natural predation would you claim the birds and apes were the "ultimate threat to the universe?"
Their potential capabilities put them into an entirely different category when it comes to threat assessment compared to nonsentient species.
Now let me clarify a few things, because there is some truth behind your skepticism,
Firstly, if I'm being honest here, the greatest existential threat to humanity is humanity, based solely off of current capability and history. But we understand humans pretty well, other people may be hell but they're also a mostly known entity. Rogue Drones? Drifters? Sleepers? Who knows what else is out there? These are all unknown quantities. Their capabilities, nature, and sentiments are simply not comparable to nonsentients and in some ways, in the long run, not comparable to us either. They're a dangerous unknown with no theoretical limit to their destructive potential. That, to me, makes them likely candidates for being the largest threats in the long run. The problem is that, for one, we have no way of measuring when exactly they may pose that degree of threat (because it's certainly not right now, which is what you have right: there are much greater threats than the Rogue Drones in the short term). How exactly can we even approach predicting their rate of growth or the derivative of their rate of growth, without essentially just reacting to developments as they happen? We really don't know what the hell they have been doing and, as a result of the very nature of their emergence as a threat, we have a history of underestimating what they're technically capable of becoming. So I can certainly consider them to be very dangerous in the long run, and the enigma around them and the lack of theoretical limit to their development makes me want to place them at the top compared to more known quantities. I wouldn't call these considerations 'alarmism' because there's no sense of immediacy even from people supposedly overreacting to their potential threat: I doubt anyone here thinks the Rogue Drones are as immediate a threat as even the Drifters, who are also more of a long term threat.
Sorry for the rant, I'm having a hard time expressing the nuance I think is necessary when considering an enemy like Rogue Drones or Drifters. That being, to summarize, we know the threat is high, the capability is high, the adaptability is high. We know that they lack the theoretical ceiling on their development that primitive species have, so that comparison is very much lacking in the long run (though perhaps accurate in the very short run, in that no alarmism is currently warranted, but again, it isn't a comparison that suits the Rogue Drones because they were a freak accident of intelligent human design that grew to exceed our ability to control it, unlike animals which are a known quantity, have always existed alongside us somewhat symbiotically, and do not 'build' the way that Rogue Drones build).
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Teinyhr
Ourumur
919
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Posted - 2017.06.08 19:39:19 -
[17] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:They are no more of a threat to humanity than any naturally-evolved species. Only one that lives in the environment of space.
Calling them the "ultimate threat" to our cluster or the known universe is an insane level of alarmism.
If CONCORD sent a team into the jungle to study the animals in their habitat there and they succumed to natural predation would you claim the birds and apes were the "ultimate threat to the universe?"
Like has already been said, I did not mean "right now." Given enough time however, and what little we know of their behaviour, it seems likely that they will, wonderfully put by mr. Galente, through "destructive indiffirence" consume everything as raw material for their own self-replication. This will take millions to billions of years, but unless they are at some point completely destroyed - and that would be a monumental undertaking even if each and all the separate factions of our cluster worked together to exterminate them - they will be an "ultimate threat", to everything. Because even after us humans will be long gone, they will be there, consuming what we've left behind.
Regardless, if they some day decide to declare war on meatbags for whatever reason, I would not consider our odds of winning great. Rogue drones don't need to sleep, they can't be bargained with, they don't feel pity, remorse or fear. And their industrial potential can be assumed to be staggering, and even worse would be that every ship lost in a war against them will be relatively quickly converted to serve them. If it were war, it would have to be one of total destruction and emotionally cold, calculated moves where no ones lives matter.
Now do you understand why I'm terrified of these things? It is not that they're too much of a threat right now. I'm very concerned about the threat they could quite imaginably become. It may happen tomorrow, in a thousand years or in the best case scenario, never.
As for your last question, non-sentient predators contained in one planet are obviously not a threat to the unverse. But in a wholly alien way sentient, spacefaring predators can definetly become a huge problem in the long run. |
ValentinaDLM
Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute
976
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Posted - 2017.06.08 19:43:44 -
[18] - Quote
I am much more worried about capsuleers than drones. All of the new threats I have seen as my time as a capsuleer very quickly get adapted to and we thrive much as we always have done. Still so long as Concord is in the business of rewarding us, or the threat leaves something worthwhile behind in it's wreckage I am game for shooting them. |
Ria Nieyli
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
50799
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Posted - 2017.06.08 20:26:32 -
[19] - Quote
ValentinaDLM wrote:I am much more worried about capsuleers than drones. All of the new threats I have seen as my time as a capsuleer very quickly get adapted to and we thrive much as we always have done. Still so long as Concord is in the business of rewarding us, or the threat leaves something worthwhile behind in it's wreckage I am game for shooting them.
Just wait until Professor Dronotnik devises a way to have capsuleer drones. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Kurilaivonen
2182
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Posted - 2017.06.08 23:46:33 -
[20] - Quote
Hopefully CONCORD Taskforce Unicorn can complete the mission. |
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Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
2506
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Posted - 2017.06.09 01:16:48 -
[21] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:ValentinaDLM wrote:I am much more worried about capsuleers than drones. All of the new threats I have seen as my time as a capsuleer very quickly get adapted to and we thrive much as we always have done. Still so long as Concord is in the business of rewarding us, or the threat leaves something worthwhile behind in it's wreckage I am game for shooting them. Just wait until Professor Dronotnik devises a way to have capsuleer drones.
Pfft. Mr. Kuvakei had already done that.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1031
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Posted - 2017.06.09 03:06:40 -
[22] - Quote
It seems to me that people consider them a threat because they are too much like us.
I did not know that our position as dominant species was so precarious that we need to call for genocide.
Goddess of the IGS
As strength goes.
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Ria Nieyli
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
50801
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Posted - 2017.06.09 04:12:56 -
[23] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:It seems to me that people consider them a threat because they are too much like us.
I did not know that our position as dominant species was so precarious that we need to call for genocide.
It's not precarious. It's exerting the apex predator claim unto other species. Look at hoe many different predators have been hunted to extinction on many different planets throughout history. It's what we do. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
922
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:14:14 -
[24] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:It seems to me that people consider them a threat because they are too much like us.
I did not know that our position as dominant species was so precarious that we need to call for genocide.
That's the thing ,they are nothing like us.
Also, "genocide", really? You consider rogue drones something to be afforded sympathy for? Do you call pumping a wheat field full of pesticides also genocide? |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2350
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:44:21 -
[25] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Ayallah wrote:It seems to me that people consider them a threat because they are too much like us.
I did not know that our position as dominant species was so precarious that we need to call for genocide. That's the thing ,they are nothing like us. Also, "genocide", really? You consider rogue drones something to be afforded sympathy for? Do you call pumping a wheat field full of pesticides also genocide?
Xenocide is the more appropriate word.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1211
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:49:45 -
[26] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:It seems to me that people consider them a threat because they are too much like us.
I did not know that our position as dominant species was so precarious that we need to call for genocide.
Yeah, you're exactly right.
And when an external group acts too much like us, not only do our genocidal tendencies kick in, they kick in because we recognize that theirs do as well. At that point "who started it" becomes irrelevant in a struggle for survival and dominance.
You couldn't have said it better. They're dangerous because they're like us. Like I said, we're also our own current greatest threat. Why wouldn't a human-like entity be considered a grave threat if in addition to being similar to us (dangerous), it is also less well known to us than other people? After all, an unknown enemy, all other things being equal, is more dangerous.
Seems Ms. Teinyhr and I differ significantly now. I've always found it fascinating how two people can seem to parrot one another exactly until a precise, specific question is asked in just the right way, and then, suddenly, they couldn't be more starkly contrasted in opinion, on essentially the same topic they were in total agreement on before. It's tragic how often such questions go unasked and people completely miss out on these truths.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Teinyhr
Ourumur
922
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Posted - 2017.06.09 16:36:48 -
[27] - Quote
They're too much like us if you see potential for destruction the only relevant metric. Like I said, they dont sleep (even a capsuleer has to), they dont fear anything and they are not predictable like most Empyreans are. The most destructive empyeran is most likely following their wallet, and that makes Empyrean behaviour predictable. You cannot predict where rogue drones will strike the same way. |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
448
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:56:36 -
[28] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:They are no more of a threat to humanity than any naturally-evolved species. Only one that lives in the environment of space.
Calling them the "ultimate threat" to our cluster or the known universe is an insane level of alarmism.
If CONCORD sent a team into the jungle to study the animals in their habitat there and they succumed to natural predation would you claim the birds and apes were the "ultimate threat to the universe?" If they will start replicating even more than they already are now, then they are at the same level of a threat as Kyonoke. It is naive and dangerous to equate artificial life-form with a naturally developed one. |
Raxi Elamp
True Slave Foundations Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
8
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Posted - 2017.06.09 18:34:30 -
[29] - Quote
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHhahahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAH AHA AHA HA HAHAHAHAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
good **** |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2353
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Posted - 2017.06.09 19:22:45 -
[30] - Quote
Several aspects of rogue drone culture are of concern, besides their indefatigability.
One of the aspects of concern is their ability to assimilate technological artifacts that they encounter, incorporating it into their designs for subsequent generations of drones. Consider, drones encountering and assimilating supercapital weaponry, Drifter artifacts, unknown civilisation artifacts, and so on.
Another aspect of concern, is their widespread use of genetic algorithms in their iterative designs. They alter various parameters of componentry and evaluate them. Unlike development of ships and weapons for capsuleers and baseline navies in human civilisations, their development cycles are not measured in months or years, but hours and days. They can adapt very quickly.
One last thing that is of concern, is that humanity in general, have only glimpsed a section of the Rogue Drone military-industrial infrastructure. There are some things that are not widely known, such as the Jump-capable Rogue Drone hive structures, larger than a Citadel or station. And there are other things that are only rumours, such as drones larger than Titans, or the widespread belief that many star systems that are not linked to stargates, have been colonised and exploited by Rogue Drone swarms. Consider the mass of a solar system, and consider that an aggressive drone swarm could convert that mass into an equivalent mass of warships within a few years or decades.
In short, the drones have considerable potential to out-evolve and out-produce humanity. Have they reached that potential yet ? I am sceptical that they have.
But they might.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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