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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
47773
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 09:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm about as Fanboy for CCP as anyone gets, but CCPls:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6hclx1/thanks_for_the_ships_ccp_no_more_260m_tick/
If that is legit, then that is a monumentally poor decision.
Good luck to those benefiting from multiple accounts out of this (if it's legit), but RIP everyone else. |
Cmdr Clawhammer
Peach Pit Corp Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2017.06.15 09:28:52 -
[2] - Quote
Am i wrong, i belived only people with a ticket got a pair of these ships? How did he got so much of them??? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
47774
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 09:35:47 -
[3] - Quote
Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:Am i wrong, i belived only people with a ticket got a pair of these ships? How did he got so much of them??? Because, if that image is real, CCP handed the ships to every account, not just one set per ticket.
If you have a ghost training farm of 200 accounts (some people have more) and bought a ticket, then you received 2 ships on every account.
If you paid the same amount to attend, but have only 1 account, you only get 2 ships.
Hence that Reddit thread, where the OP has >150 accounts, so now has more than 300 total CONCORD ships.
Assuming of course, that the thread is legit. |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
601
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 09:41:18 -
[4] - Quote
So that guy has 155 alts?
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 09:46:22 -
[5] - Quote
I think I am legitimately done with the game. Why bother playing the game and making isk when you can pull stuff like this and make so much more? |
Mizhir
TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED
75511
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Posted - 2017.06.15 09:47:03 -
[6] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:Am i wrong, i belived only people with a ticket got a pair of these ships? How did he got so much of them??? Because, if that image is real, CCP handed the ships to every account, not just one set per ticket. If you have a ghost training farm of 200 accounts (some people have more) and bought a ticket, then you received 2 ships on every account. If you paid the same amount to attend, but have only 1 account, you only get 2 ships. Hence that Reddit thread, where the OP has >150 accounts, so now has more than 300 total CONCORD ships. Assuming of course, that the thread is legit.
It is legit. Falcon has even confirmed it is working as intentional: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6h8e8d/eve_news_fanfest_pacifier_enforcer_distribution/diweh3k/?context=10000
:CCP Logic:
G¥ñn+Ån+Å=ƒÆ¢=ƒÆÜ=ƒÆÖ=ƒÆ£
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Mizhir
TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED
75511
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Posted - 2017.06.15 09:47:59 -
[7] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:So that guy has 155 alts? To me that smells like marketing.
Those alts doesn't even have to be subbed.
G¥ñn+Ån+Å=ƒÆ¢=ƒÆÜ=ƒÆÖ=ƒÆ£
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Cmdr Clawhammer
Peach Pit Corp Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2017.06.15 09:50:39 -
[8] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:Am i wrong, i belived only people with a ticket got a pair of these ships? How did he got so much of them??? Because, if that image is real, CCP handed the ships to every account, not just one set per ticket. If you have a ghost training farm of 200 accounts (some people have more) and bought a ticket, then you received 2 ships on every account. If you paid the same amount to attend, but have only 1 account, you only get 2 ships. Hence that Reddit thread, where the OP has >150 accounts, so now has more than 300 total CONCORD ships. Assuming of course, that the thread is legit.
WTF!? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
47774
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 09:53:15 -
[9] - Quote
All the best to Falcon and the rest of the Community Management team over the next few days.
Last weekend will look like champagne and strawberries compared to the rage about to come. |
Mizhir
TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED
75511
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 09:56:07 -
[10] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:All the best to Falcon and the rest of the Community Management team over the next few days. Last weekend will look like champagne and strawberries compared to the rage about to come.
They brought it upon themselves. So they deserve it.
G¥ñn+Ån+Å=ƒÆ¢=ƒÆÜ=ƒÆÖ=ƒÆ£
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
601
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 09:57:20 -
[11] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Gimme Sake wrote:So that guy has 155 alts? To me that smells like marketing. Those alts doesn't even have to be subbed.
Well yeah they don't promote making alts, they sell tickets.
Market study has suggested Eve players are prone to scam and cheat and will rush to get rich on such an opportunity of making free billions thus the sold number of tickets will go through the roof.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Eternity Mistseeker
Renegades of Eve Aureus Alae
30
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Posted - 2017.06.15 10:11:35 -
[12] - Quote
So this was intentional, and not incompetence? |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35176
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 10:13:16 -
[13] - Quote
Only 5805 PLEX? Thats not really impressive.
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ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
601
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 10:13:44 -
[14] - Quote
Eternity Mistseeker wrote:So this was intentional, and not incompetence?
I'd call it competence in appearing incompetent!
You people learn nothing from Jita local?
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35176
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 10:19:09 -
[15] - Quote
I can understand the people who bought ticket and had only one account, and what disservice have CCP done to those people.
But I am also happy because they will be cheaper on market.
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
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ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Rhalina Sedai
Notice Has Been Served
36
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Posted - 2017.06.15 10:31:17 -
[16] - Quote
Computer code does not understand fairness, its working as programmed. Come on CCP sort it out.
FSOP (Free Systems of Panorad)
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35176
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 10:41:39 -
[17] - Quote
Those who exploited the ghost farming, made a bunch of alts to farm Aurum on christmas, if onyone of them had only one ticket, it looks now like CCP is promoting those people.
They want to make "EVE is dying" meme a reality at last.
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
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ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Demonspawn 666
The Dirty Rejects ChaosTheory.
283
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 10:46:24 -
[18] - Quote
That is world class trolling from CCP!
Enrage the playerbase over nerfs to everything due to us having too much isk. Then give the people with 100's of accounts ( that have profited hugely from ghost training) 100's of free high value ships!
Well played CCP!
The Dirty Rejects are recruiting!
Come play with me...... I like being played with!
TDR Recruitment
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David Therman
CAStabouts
182
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 10:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
You couldn't make it up... are CCP actively trying to sink the ship? Not only have they turned a blind eye to a "bug" for the past 7-odd months that is netting people billions of isk, they've basically handed a privileged few a blank cheque because they happened to have an abundance of accounts (omega/alpha) to redeem from. I'm sure this isn't an enticement to get people to buy tickets for Vegas in the hopes of another flood of freebies... right?
And what a time for it to happen, right after the furore over the past few days.
E: BRB, buying out shares in the local pitchfork emporium. |
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
162
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 10:54:09 -
[20] - Quote
Cool, maybe this time I'll be able to buy one of these limited ship. I reaaaaly want one.
In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen :
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
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Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
813
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:01:41 -
[21] - Quote
RIP Eve.
Agent of the New Order
Live by the Code - die by the Code.
The Voice of Highsec
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Demonspawn 666
The Dirty Rejects ChaosTheory.
284
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:02:29 -
[22] - Quote
It's all good though.....
Right now CCP will be panicking and rushing through the code to give us all one or two of these ships so they can say they listened and they are fair.
Meanwhile.......
Completely missing the point as in doing that they crash the market for the ships, making them relatively worthless and the 1% who ghost trained hundreds of accounts have already cashed in at the top of the market and got richer.
Very very well trolled CCP!
The Dirty Rejects are recruiting!
Come play with me...... I like being played with!
TDR Recruitment
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CowQueen MMXII
555
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:05:17 -
[23] - Quote
Yesterday, I was a little upset because CCP was giving away skins for free that I bought for good money a while ago. Today, .... well, I would like to rage about this, but it's just so unbelievably stupid, I just can't.
Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
552
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:06:32 -
[24] - Quote
BRB buying stock in popcorn manufacturers.
A signature :o
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35179
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:11:26 -
[25] - Quote
Seems like whatever CCP will do these days, they will do it wrong.
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ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Kixx
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2017.06.15 11:12:11 -
[26] - Quote
I do not want to have to own 100 free accounts, but you are forcing us down this path.
For a game that promotes scamming, it sure seems like the people running this place get scammed by the playerbase regularly. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
258
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:13:57 -
[27] - Quote
Demonspawn 666 wrote:It's all good though..... Right now CCP will be panicking and rushing through the code to give us all one or two of these ships so they can say they listened and they are fair. Meanwhile....... Completely missing the point as in doing that they crash the market for the ships, making them relatively worthless and the 1% who ghost trained hundreds of accounts have already cashed in at the top of the market and got richer. Very very well trolled CCP!
No they won't, the release article clearly states that ships were given to each account that was registered to the email address used to purchase a fanfest ticket, they knew exactly what would happen
"These ships should now be in your redeeming system, one package of ships for each account registered to your email address."
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/pacifier-enforcer-distribution-complete/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news
Working exactly as intended, players set the prices for these ships anyway, if nobody buys them the value goes down until people do start buying them :P |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3526
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:16:48 -
[28] - Quote
Demonspawn 666 wrote:It's all good though..... Right now CCP will be panicking and rushing through the code to give us all one or two of these ships so they can say they listened and they are fair. Meanwhile....... Completely missing the point as in doing that they crash the market for the ships, making them relatively worthless and the 1% who ghost trained hundreds of accounts have already cashed in at the top of the market and got richer. Very very well trolled CCP! I can only assume that crashing the price of these ships was the intention of linking it to accounts, but Lordy, what a tone-deaf thing to do. It looks terrible to reward one person who sat in a seat at FanFest with 2 free ships, and the person next to him with 50 because he was a multi-boxer or SP farmer or whatever. Maybe if it was tied to Omega status you could try to make a case (although you would still look greedy for doing so), but as it is you have various FanFest attendees being awarded with a number of ships with a variance of one or two magnitudes, based on nothing but how many accounts they have set up which looks horribly unfair.
They should have just given 10 or 20 ships to each person if they wanted to keep the cost down initially. This unequal distribution appears unfair, actually is unfair, and serves no discernible purpose to me. Do they really want us to each make a hundred-plus empty accounts to maximize the amount of future give-aways we receive?
I can't believe no-one on the development team saw the trouble this decision was going to lead to. With human nature what is it, the uproar was entirely predictable and avoidable. They somehow managed to take a kind gesture that should have bought them goodwill and turned into another PR headache.
People will get over this minor fracas faster than some of your other recent missteps CCP, but seriously, you guys need to up your game and stop making these mistakes. You have burnt a lot of goodwill in recent years and you can't afford to waste any more with fumbles like this one.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35181
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:19:03 -
[29] - Quote
Its hard to believe that they forgot about Alphas and Every SP farmer out there. It looks like they just dont care.
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ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
602
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:19:11 -
[30] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Demonspawn 666 wrote:It's all good though..... Right now CCP will be panicking and rushing through the code to give us all one or two of these ships so they can say they listened and they are fair. Meanwhile....... Completely missing the point as in doing that they crash the market for the ships, making them relatively worthless and the 1% who ghost trained hundreds of accounts have already cashed in at the top of the market and got richer. Very very well trolled CCP! No they won't, the release article clearly states that ships were given to each account that was registered to the email address used to purchase a fanfest ticket, they knew exactly what would happen "These ships should now be in your redeeming system, one package of ships for each account registered to your email address." https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/pacifier-enforcer-distribution-complete/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news Working exactly as intended, players set the prices for these ships anyway, if nobody buys them the value goes down until people do start buying them :P
CCP learns from the player base, the player base does not learn from CCP. Git gud scrubs!
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Mark Marconi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
216
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:19:40 -
[31] - Quote
A wise man confesses when he is wrong,
A fool defends his actions.
Is it any surprise what path CCP has taken.
The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.
After all we are not just players, we are customers.
Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
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TigerXtrm
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1946
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:21:28 -
[32] - Quote
I am not one to yell "canceling sub" on a whim. I stand by CCP's decisions most of the time.
But if this is true, and people actually got free ships on every single Alpha account they own, then CCP better address this and admit how gigantic of clusterf*ck of a mistake this was or even I will be canceling my accounts in protest. F*ck this **** and f*ck your ******** decisions, this isn't even funny anymore.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Uthgaard
Because Wardec
31
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Posted - 2017.06.15 11:22:25 -
[33] - Quote
Eternity Mistseeker wrote:So this was intentional, and not incompetence?
They're not mutually exclusive.
This was intentional because incompetence.
First their QA guy (responsible for getting things right) halts skill training for paid subscribers instead of ghost training alphas.
Then they gave a free pass to everyone who exploited ghost training for billions of sp for sale and self-injection.
Then CCP Falcon says with a snide smirk that it's not a mistake, but intentional. That spits directly in the face of nearly every EVE philosophy.
EVE's wealth distribution was already consolidated into just a few hands, but now that curve will be even sharper. I guess CCP wanted to see how closely they could imitate the US economy.
If we equate the price of PLEX to a living wage, then the similarities are even more relevant, as the average player's buying power just went straight down the shitter. As a result, fewer players will be able to afford PLEX, and large numbers of paid players are reporting decisions to unsubscribe - commonly citing that continuing would be a waste of time. And that's a reasonable sentiment, as this series of trainwrecks has just crashed the value of ISK, time, and even character development.
I'm not just saying this to be dramatic, I'm honestly a bit stunned and feel as if I've just witnessed a murder, and EVE was the victim.
I've seen some screw-ups, but this is historical - even legendary. Great job CCP. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
47778
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:22:27 -
[34] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Working exactly as intended, players set the prices for these ships anyway, if nobody buys them the value goes down until people do start buying them :P Certainly working as implemented. Whether that was the original understanding and intent:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6hdu1f/i_am_99_sure_it_is_meant_to_be_one_concord_ship/
Intentional, not equitable** and not necessarily the same as originally advertised.
** There is no requirement for things to be equitable between people that bought tickets. CCP can do what they like. At the same time, whether that is ok or not is up to everyone individually to decide. My feeling is the community on the whole will be pissed about this.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35181
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:22:53 -
[35] - Quote
Great injustice of our times. \o/
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ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Helene Fidard
CTRL-Q
55
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Posted - 2017.06.15 11:36:46 -
[36] - Quote
This self-destructive behaviour is starting to scare me tbh
CCP it is ok to say that you need help
Hey! I don't know about you
but I'm joining CTRL-Q
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Sethyrh Nakrar
239
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:49:34 -
[37] - Quote
They did WHAT? LOL Sorry, but........ Why not gift them to everyone..... *Still laughts like crazy!*
Seriously. CCP. WTF?
Praise the Omnissiah!
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Ergum Motsu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2017.06.15 11:50:42 -
[38] - Quote
So it was intentional to distribute these ships at the rate of 2 per account that each ticket holder has linked to the purchasing e-mail address - what utter bull crap this game become.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/fanfest-2017-tickets-are-selling-fast-last-few-days-to-claim-the-enforcer/ this link detailing that "Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser." This advert does not stipulate it will be one of each ship per account, but merely 1 of each ship per ticket purchased.
CCP have right royally screwed over their own reputation, as well as making any future adverts they run not worth taking notice of.
Then theres the whole skin issue, recently lunched Hazard Control skins for minmatar ships at almost double the cost of the Sungrazer skins for Gallente hulls - why? No standard pricing? or is it because there are more Nyx's in game than Hel's, therefore you're selling more skins to get the same revenue? Has EvE now officially become pay to win?
I wont even get started on the Eve 2nd decade Collectors box sets that CCP seem to have given up promoting further content for despite saying at the time that additional content would become available, even if it was llimited edition clothing outfirts for the characters, skins for ships.
I neither bought the box sets nor the fanfest tickets, and the rate at which CCP seem to screw things up, I wont be tempted to buy things from them in the future. |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1914
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:52:03 -
[39] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Demonspawn 666 wrote:It's all good though..... Right now CCP will be panicking and rushing through the code to give us all one or two of these ships so they can say they listened and they are fair. Meanwhile....... Completely missing the point as in doing that they crash the market for the ships, making them relatively worthless and the 1% who ghost trained hundreds of accounts have already cashed in at the top of the market and got richer. Very very well trolled CCP! No they won't, the release article clearly states that ships were given to each account that was registered to the email address used to purchase a fanfest ticket, they knew exactly what would happen "These ships should now be in your redeeming system, one package of ships for each account registered to your email address." https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/pacifier-enforcer-distribution-complete/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news Working exactly as intended, players set the prices for these ships anyway, if nobody buys them the value goes down until people do start buying them :P
My personal understanding is that these ships were never intended to be "rare." I believe it was during the EvE Vegas closing ceremonies CCP said so. Check the 16:25 mark. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&t=15m3s&v=FARkDDbSRFs
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
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Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
258
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:55:28 -
[40] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Cypherous wrote:Working exactly as intended, players set the prices for these ships anyway, if nobody buys them the value goes down until people do start buying them :P Certainly working as implemented. Whether that was the original understanding and intent: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6hdu1f/i_am_99_sure_it_is_meant_to_be_one_concord_ship/ Intentional, not equitable** and not necessarily the same as originally advertised. ** There is no requirement for things to be equitable between people that bought tickets. CCP can do what they like. At the same time, whether that is ok or not is up to everyone individually to decide. My feeling is the community on the whole will be pissed about this.
All offers are subject to change, its an added bonus, they gave out more ships than people were expecting, can't really complain about rewards being overfunded, the only issue is if there were people who did NOT get atleast 1 of the promised ships, as stated the article on the launcher clearly states its per account registered to the email that purchased the ticket, 1 package of ships per account, which is still in line, they never stated it would be one package for one account per purchase |
|
Demonspawn 666
The Dirty Rejects ChaosTheory.
284
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:56:15 -
[41] - Quote
2 dank ticks lost due to servers crashing....
Can we all be refunded at 260mil/tick for the lost ticks ccp?
The Dirty Rejects are recruiting!
Come play with me...... I like being played with!
TDR Recruitment
|
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
642
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 11:59:53 -
[42] - Quote
It was just that those who bought tickets are getting an early taste. They said they would give them out for other events and stuff. So yeah not intended to be rare.
|
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
219
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:05:20 -
[43] - Quote
https://fanfest.eveonline.com/news/2016/fanfest-2017-ships/ "In celebration of Fanfest 2017, we will be issuing a decommissioned CONCORD Pacifier class frigate with the sale of every Fanfest ticket." Just leaving this here... Keyword: "A decommissioned", "of every Fanfest Ticket" This shows intent to only distribute one per fanfest ticket. |
Salu Kelmalu
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:14:55 -
[44] - Quote
What are you doing, CCP?! I mean, really??
People who have been 'exploiting' mechanics with ghost training now get loads of free ships too - yay! The ships aren't even tied to omega status! Come on - this is stupid and ridiculous and people rightly should be pissed. There are going to be people who are sat at fanfest getting 1 of each whilst others have 100s on top of all the passive isk for the gamey BS they pulled with ghost training - how is this fair? (EVE is not fair blah blah)
I hate all the CCP bashing but this is completely stupid and the timing could not be worse. CCP please wake the **** up - people care about this game, they are invested in it - that is why they get angry. Every decision you are making is pissing more and more people off - especially as it seems that little thought to the wider impact is being put into any decision or at least, how decisions are being implemented. You have a great game here, a unique one - please, please take a step back and look at the damage certain decisions are having. Conflict drivers are needed, ghost training needs to be stopped dead, this BS should be reversed, some kind of change in citadel mechanics so they are not such a pain in the ass to get rid of - especially if systems have 10's and 10's of them etc. etc. Stop with the aesthetic crap and sort out problems that fundamentally impact conflicts, the economy (I dont mean manipulate it but stop nonsense like ghost training), balance and that make people actually want to log on.
Sometimes you make me feel sad CCP |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1915
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:21:20 -
[45] - Quote
Salu Kelmalu wrote:What are you doing, CCP?! I mean, really?? People who have been 'exploiting' mechanics with ghost training now get loads of free ships too - yay! The ships aren't even tied to omega status! Come on - this is stupid and ridiculous and people rightly should be pissed. There are going to be people who are sat at fanfest getting 1 of each whilst others have 100s on top of all the passive isk for the gamey BS they pulled with ghost training - how is this fair? (EVE is not fair blah blah) I hate all the CCP bashing but this is completely stupid and the timing could not be worse. CCP please wake the **** up - people care about this game, they are invested in it - that is why they get angry. Every decision you are making is pissing more and more people off - especially as it seems that little thought to the wider impact is being put into any decision or at least, how decisions are being implemented. You have a great game here, a unique one - please, please take a step back and look at the damage certain decisions are having. Conflict drivers are needed, ghost training needs to be stopped dead, this BS should be reversed, some kind of change in citadel mechanics so they are not such a pain in the ass to get rid of - especially if systems have 10's and 10's of them etc. etc. Stop with the aesthetic crap and sort out problems that fundamentally impact conflicts, the economy (I dont mean manipulate it but stop nonsense like ghost training), balance and that make people actually want to log on. Sometimes you make me feel sad CCP
So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
|
Ergum Motsu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:23:59 -
[46] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Salu Kelmalu wrote:What are you doing, CCP?! I mean, really?? People who have been 'exploiting' mechanics with ghost training now get loads of free ships too - yay! The ships aren't even tied to omega status! Come on - this is stupid and ridiculous and people rightly should be pissed. There are going to be people who are sat at fanfest getting 1 of each whilst others have 100s on top of all the passive isk for the gamey BS they pulled with ghost training - how is this fair? (EVE is not fair blah blah) I hate all the CCP bashing but this is completely stupid and the timing could not be worse. CCP please wake the **** up - people care about this game, they are invested in it - that is why they get angry. Every decision you are making is pissing more and more people off - especially as it seems that little thought to the wider impact is being put into any decision or at least, how decisions are being implemented. You have a great game here, a unique one - please, please take a step back and look at the damage certain decisions are having. Conflict drivers are needed, ghost training needs to be stopped dead, this BS should be reversed, some kind of change in citadel mechanics so they are not such a pain in the ass to get rid of - especially if systems have 10's and 10's of them etc. etc. Stop with the aesthetic crap and sort out problems that fundamentally impact conflicts, the economy (I dont mean manipulate it but stop nonsense like ghost training), balance and that make people actually want to log on. Sometimes you make me feel sad CCP So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
How about just limit them to 1 of each ship per ticket purchased as originally advertised rather just giving people untold amount of isk?
I mean just look at jita and see how much the ships are trading for atm because they are supposedly rare due to supposedly limited availability
|
Kixx
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:25:10 -
[47] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Salu Kelmalu wrote:What are you doing, CCP?! I mean, really?? People who have been 'exploiting' mechanics with ghost training now get loads of free ships too - yay! The ships aren't even tied to omega status! Come on - this is stupid and ridiculous and people rightly should be pissed. There are going to be people who are sat at fanfest getting 1 of each whilst others have 100s on top of all the passive isk for the gamey BS they pulled with ghost training - how is this fair? (EVE is not fair blah blah) I hate all the CCP bashing but this is completely stupid and the timing could not be worse. CCP please wake the **** up - people care about this game, they are invested in it - that is why they get angry. Every decision you are making is pissing more and more people off - especially as it seems that little thought to the wider impact is being put into any decision or at least, how decisions are being implemented. You have a great game here, a unique one - please, please take a step back and look at the damage certain decisions are having. Conflict drivers are needed, ghost training needs to be stopped dead, this BS should be reversed, some kind of change in citadel mechanics so they are not such a pain in the ass to get rid of - especially if systems have 10's and 10's of them etc. etc. Stop with the aesthetic crap and sort out problems that fundamentally impact conflicts, the economy (I dont mean manipulate it but stop nonsense like ghost training), balance and that make people actually want to log on. Sometimes you make me feel sad CCP So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
Immediate release of Concord ships in game by some easy obtainable means otherwise instead of addressing the problem you have decided to become an accomplice by ignoring it. |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1917
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:28:46 -
[48] - Quote
Ergum Motsu wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:
So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
How about just limit them to 1 of each ship per ticket purchased as originally advertised rather just giving people untold amount of isk? I mean just look at jita and see how much the ships are trading for atm because they are supposedly rare due to supposedly limited availability
So remove all the ships and then reissue them? What about the ones already sold? Should CCP reverse all the sales? Also if you check the video I originally posted. They are not rare ships.
Kixx wrote:
Immediate release of Concord ships in game by some easy obtainable means otherwise instead of addressing the problem you have decided to become an accomplice by ignoring it.
You seem to have a misconception about my role. I am a player Volunteer whos job it is to moderate the forums and filter feedback to CCP. I am trying to get an understanding of what the issue is and what players would like to happen. So I am not sure where you are getting this "Accomplice by ignoring it" from.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
|
Caldari Phantom
Intergalactic systems
11
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:29:06 -
[49] - Quote
Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
|
FIX IT
Numbers Inc
24
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:29:44 -
[50] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote: So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
CCP could use the existing reward mechanism and hand out copies of them to every account in eve crashing the price to limit the damage (this can be done with a click of a button, you already got the ships and the gift mechanism)
Then give a different gift to each attendees, one per ticket.
Or you can watch as several dozen people become filthy rich. Wait i remember something like this from before, ahh yes, ccp has printed and handed out tech 2 bpos to their buddies. Has ccp checked who is going to benefit from this "intended" action and if they have connections to ccp employees?
|
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16164
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:30:46 -
[51] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Cypherous wrote:Working exactly as intended, players set the prices for these ships anyway, if nobody buys them the value goes down until people do start buying them :P Certainly working as implemented. Whether that was the original understanding and intent: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6hdu1f/i_am_99_sure_it_is_meant_to_be_one_concord_ship/ Intentional, not equitable** and not necessarily the same as originally advertised. ** There is no requirement for things to be equitable between people that bought tickets. CCP can do what they like. At the same time, whether that is ok or not is up to everyone individually to decide. My feeling is the community on the whole will be pissed about this. All offers are subject to change, its an added bonus, they gave out more ships than people were expecting, can't really complain about rewards being overfunded, the only issue is if there were people who did NOT get atleast 1 of the promised ships, as stated the article on the launcher clearly states its per account registered to the email that purchased the ticket, 1 package of ships per account, which is still in line, they never stated it would be one package for one account per purchase
This.
I didn't go to fanfest but I read the article on the launcher and I remember thinking "wow, some people have a lto of accounts, that's going to be a lot of ships, cool, maybe the price won't be so high".
These are not Alliance tournament ships are anything like that, they are meant to be played with and there is nothing wrong at all with CCP rewarding people for not only going to fanfest but also for supporting CCP will ,multiple subscriptions.
The EVE community has always been 'prickly' , but damn. People need to calm down with finding something to be mad at every 15 seconds. |
Salu Kelmalu
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:32:49 -
[52] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Salu Kelmalu wrote:What are you doing, CCP?! I mean, really?? People who have been 'exploiting' mechanics with ghost training now get loads of free ships too - yay! The ships aren't even tied to omega status! Come on - this is stupid and ridiculous and people rightly should be pissed. There are going to be people who are sat at fanfest getting 1 of each whilst others have 100s on top of all the passive isk for the gamey BS they pulled with ghost training - how is this fair? (EVE is not fair blah blah) I hate all the CCP bashing but this is completely stupid and the timing could not be worse. CCP please wake the **** up - people care about this game, they are invested in it - that is why they get angry. Every decision you are making is pissing more and more people off - especially as it seems that little thought to the wider impact is being put into any decision or at least, how decisions are being implemented. You have a great game here, a unique one - please, please take a step back and look at the damage certain decisions are having. Conflict drivers are needed, ghost training needs to be stopped dead, this BS should be reversed, some kind of change in citadel mechanics so they are not such a pain in the ass to get rid of - especially if systems have 10's and 10's of them etc. etc. Stop with the aesthetic crap and sort out problems that fundamentally impact conflicts, the economy (I dont mean manipulate it but stop nonsense like ghost training), balance and that make people actually want to log on. Sometimes you make me feel sad CCP So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
At the very, very least it should be tied to omega accounts but even then I don't know if it is a solution. I mean they could physically remove ships from those that received them but that causes another PR disaster. The ideal solution is for CCP to think a bit more before implementing something that will fundamentally **** people off. It should have been one of each ship per ticket.
I don't know what CCP can do now that the horse is bolted - I guess the point (there was one somewhere, ha!) was that a little thought to wider impacts when implementing decisions like this would avoid these situations. CCP must know how imbalanced the amount of ships different people will receive (for a variety of reasons - legit alts, ghost training etc.) and they must have known at this time that something like this would blow up in their face.
My ideal solution is that this impacts future decisions that CCP makes so that some of these PR disasters are avoided and the health of the game can be improved. Sorry if that was not the answer you were looking for. |
Helene Fidard
CTRL-Q
55
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:34:09 -
[53] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The EVE community has always been 'prickly' , but damn. People need to calm down with finding something to be mad at every 15 seconds, we're playing a video game, if you don't like what the developer is doing take a break or support some other game with your time and money.
in the alternate reality where ghost training skill farms do not exist, no-one cares about this
Hey! I don't know about you
but I'm joining CTRL-Q
|
Sethyrh Nakrar
239
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:37:21 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:The ships aren't even tied to omega status! They are T2-Cruisers, tho. Good luck flying them as an Alpha....
Praise the Omnissiah!
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16165
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:39:14 -
[55] - Quote
FIX IT wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote: So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
CCP could use the existing reward mechanism and hand out copies of them to every account in eve crashing the price to limit the damage (this can be done with a click of a button, you already got the ships and the gift mechanism) Then give a different gift to each attendees, one per ticket. Or you can watch as several dozen people become filthy rich. Wait i remember something like this from before, ahh yes, ccp has printed and handed out tech 2 bpos to their buddies. Has ccp checked who is going to benefit from this "intended" action and if they have connections to ccp employees?
I found the underlying point of contention here. I guess this strikes against some people's idea of 'fairness'.
I don't think such ideas apply, CCP can do as they please with stuff they own, which is everything in EVE. And CCP clearly stated in the article that was on the launcher that the rewards would be per account. Like everything else in EVE, the people who paid attention (instead of just assuming it would be "per ticket") benefit from it.
oh and that last sentence is gold. Yea i'm sure developers who could probably spawn isk into their own wallets without being caught would instead come up with a convoluted, sure to be noticed and sure to fail conspiracy plan that EVE forum posters could see a mile away lol.
This forum needs a facepalm emoji lol. |
Ergum Motsu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:39:29 -
[56] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Ergum Motsu wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:
So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
How about just limit them to 1 of each ship per ticket purchased as originally advertised rather just giving people untold amount of isk? I mean just look at jita and see how much the ships are trading for atm because they are supposedly rare due to supposedly limited availability So remove all the ships and then reissue them? What about the ones already sold? Should CCP reverse all the sales? Also if you check the video I originally posted. They are not rare ships. Kixx wrote:
Immediate release of Concord ships in game by some easy obtainable means otherwise instead of addressing the problem you have decided to become an accomplice by ignoring it.
You seem to have a misconception about my role. I am a player Volunteer whos job it is to moderate the forums and filter feedback to CCP. I am trying to get an understanding of what the issue is and what players would like to happen. So I am not sure where you are getting this "Accomplice by ignoring it" from.
By initially limiting them to fanfest attendees, they are by definition rare as not all EvE players went to Fanfest, so that part of the argument is just quite frankly dumb. Once they are released to the whole player base, if they ever do (as it wouldnt be like CCP to ever go back on their word would it?), thats when they then dont become rare.
In how can ccp recify this, quite simply they cant, as the damage is already done. They may as well just now issue them to all accounts, and give fanfest attendess an alternative "thank you", why there should be in game rewards for out of game events is just beyond me and borders on RMT/Pay to Win.
|
Ergum Motsu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:42:13 -
[57] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:FIX IT wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote: So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
CCP could use the existing reward mechanism and hand out copies of them to every account in eve crashing the price to limit the damage (this can be done with a click of a button, you already got the ships and the gift mechanism) Then give a different gift to each attendees, one per ticket. Or you can watch as several dozen people become filthy rich. Wait i remember something like this from before, ahh yes, ccp has printed and handed out tech 2 bpos to their buddies. Has ccp checked who is going to benefit from this "intended" action and if they have connections to ccp employees? I found the underlying point of contention here. I guess this strikes against some people's idea of 'fairness'. I don't think such ideas apply, CCP can do as they please with stuff they own, which is everything in EVE. And CCP clearly stated in the article that was on the launcher that the rewards would be per account. Like everything else in EVE, the people who paid attention (instead of just assuming it would be "per ticket") benefit from it. oh and that last sentence is gold. Yea i'm sure developers who could probably spawn isk into their own wallets without being caught would instead come up with a convoluted, sure to be noticed and sure to fail conspiracy plan that EVE forum posters could see a mile away lol. This forum needs a facepalm emoji lol.
Which article stated it was one per account - if you mean the recent one then yes it does, however the article advertising tickets for sale in December stipulated "Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser." The reward was a thank you for attending FanFest, not by simply having more accounts than someone else
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16165
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:45:46 -
[58] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:
You seem to have a misconception about my role. I am a player Volunteer whos job it is to moderate the forums and filter feedback to CCP. I am trying to get an understanding of what the issue is and what players would like to happen. So I am not sure where you are getting this "Accomplice by ignoring it" from.
Nonsense. We know you are Hilmar, for Hilmar has many faces, all of them identifiable by ISD tags it seems
As for understanding it, I'm trying to as well. All I keep hearing is blah blah Ghost Farm blah blah alpha account blah blah rich getting richer. I can't blame CCP if they are perplexed by a lot of it, tomorrow there will be a reddit post about how some CCP employee took and hour AND 5 MINUTES for lunch one day last week and why is is terribly unfair to the playerbase. |
FIX IT
Numbers Inc
24
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:48:18 -
[59] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
oh and that last sentence is gold. Yea i'm sure developers who could probably spawn isk into their own wallets without being caught would instead come up with a convoluted, sure to be noticed and sure to fail conspiracy plan that EVE forum posters could see a mile away lol.
This forum needs a facepalm emoji lol.
you do know i was referencing actual historical scandal ccp was in right? this isn't some "fail conspiracy plan" it is what they actually have done ccp employees created t2 bpos out of thin air and gave it to players they liked.
example |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16165
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:49:55 -
[60] - Quote
Ergum Motsu wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:FIX IT wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote: So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
CCP could use the existing reward mechanism and hand out copies of them to every account in eve crashing the price to limit the damage (this can be done with a click of a button, you already got the ships and the gift mechanism) Then give a different gift to each attendees, one per ticket. Or you can watch as several dozen people become filthy rich. Wait i remember something like this from before, ahh yes, ccp has printed and handed out tech 2 bpos to their buddies. Has ccp checked who is going to benefit from this "intended" action and if they have connections to ccp employees? I found the underlying point of contention here. I guess this strikes against some people's idea of 'fairness'. I don't think such ideas apply, CCP can do as they please with stuff they own, which is everything in EVE. And CCP clearly stated in the article that was on the launcher that the rewards would be per account. Like everything else in EVE, the people who paid attention (instead of just assuming it would be "per ticket") benefit from it. oh and that last sentence is gold. Yea i'm sure developers who could probably spawn isk into their own wallets without being caught would instead come up with a convoluted, sure to be noticed and sure to fail conspiracy plan that EVE forum posters could see a mile away lol. This forum needs a facepalm emoji lol. Which article stated it was one per account - if you mean the recent one then yes it does, however the article advertising tickets for sale in December stipulated "Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser." The reward was a thank you for attending FanFest, not by simply having more accounts than someone else
The article I read when the CONCORd ships were announce said per account. I distinctly remember mentioning it to my corp mate who already had fanfest tickets, I jokingly told him to be sure to contract my a couple. I'm going to remind him when he logs on today. |
|
General Lee Feared
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:50:19 -
[61] - Quote
After knowing what the know about ghost training and how many of these items some people were likely to end up with I'd like to hear an actual explanation of
1) What was the decision making process like that resulted in the decision to give one to each account rather than one per ticket? 2) Was the fact that you're giving a huge cash injection to those who just came off exploiting the game not considered? |
Vouid
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:51:15 -
[62] - Quote
There is a reason why every CCP employee leaves as soon as they get a decent job offering at another company |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16165
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:53:27 -
[63] - Quote
FIX IT wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
oh and that last sentence is gold. Yea i'm sure developers who could probably spawn isk into their own wallets without being caught would instead come up with a convoluted, sure to be noticed and sure to fail conspiracy plan that EVE forum posters could see a mile away lol.
This forum needs a facepalm emoji lol.
you do know i was referencing actual historical scandal ccp was in right? this isn't some "fail conspiracy plan" it is what they actually have done ccp employees created t2 bpos out of thin air and gave it to players they liked.
I remember it, Which is why what you typed was silly. It amounted to "I have an evil plan to profit from this, now let's make sure it's totally noticeable!".
It's like all this people proclaiming that the Fighter Squadron nerf MUST be some secret plan to get people to buy more plex or something. It's like people haven't had a good conspiracy for a while so everything that happens must be some conspiracy instead of just being what it is.
CCP gave out some imaginary pixel spaceships they said they were going to give out. End of story.
|
Zapp McDouche
Its a good day to die
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:56:11 -
[64] - Quote
wow what 1st world issues, I didnt attent fanfest But I look forward to buying one of each down the line of the concorde boats |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
32
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:56:46 -
[65] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: I found the underlying point of contention here. I guess this strikes against some people's idea of 'fairness'.
I don't think such ideas apply, CCP can do as they please with stuff they own, which is everything in EVE. And CCP clearly stated in the article that was on the launcher that the rewards would be per account. Like everything else in EVE, the people who paid attention (instead of just assuming it would be "per ticket") benefit from it.
Oh and that last sentence is gold. Yea i'm sure developers who could probably spawn isk into their own wallets without being caught would instead come up with a convoluted, sure to be noticed and sure to fail conspiracy plan that EVE forum posters could see a mile away lol.
This forum needs a facepalm emoji lol.
No, you're just not understanding what happened here, but forming an opinion anyway. You can get up to speed here.
The people who got hundreds, did so because they had massed accounts to take advantage of an exploit. This decision rewarded that exploit.
Sure, CCP can do as they like. But that doesn't remove the consequences of their actions. The players can do as they like as well. Guess who's an alpha clone next month? This guy. Along with many others.
If you want to continue to subscribe to a game with fundamentally broken mechanics, compounded by devs making bad decisions willy nilly, and ISD locking any threads they don't like while posting as faithful apologists, feel free.
EVE is a game that's played in the long-term. Playing a game where your development is planned a year at a time, requires faith that the team at the wheel isn't going botch things every time they touch it. If I were a shareholder, after this week I'd move for a no confidence vote. |
FIX IT
Numbers Inc
24
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 12:57:17 -
[66] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: CCP gave out some imaginary pixel spaceships they said they were going to give out. End of story.
Ow I think this is far from the end of the story, the story has not even started yet, you wait till people get home tonight and find out about this. |
TigerXtrm
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1946
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:02:02 -
[67] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Ergum Motsu wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:
So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
How about just limit them to 1 of each ship per ticket purchased as originally advertised rather just giving people untold amount of isk? I mean just look at jita and see how much the ships are trading for atm because they are supposedly rare due to supposedly limited availability So remove all the ships and then reissue them? What about the ones already sold? Should CCP reverse all the sales? Also if you check the video I originally posted. They are not rare ships. Kixx wrote:
Immediate release of Concord ships in game by some easy obtainable means otherwise instead of addressing the problem you have decided to become an accomplice by ignoring it.
You seem to have a misconception about my role. I am a player Volunteer whos job it is to moderate the forums and filter feedback to CCP. I am trying to get an understanding of what the issue is and what players would like to happen. So I am not sure where you are getting this "Accomplice by ignoring it" from.
The issue isn't the ships, nor is it a problem that Fanfest attendees got an early taste. The problem is the fact that CCP knowns damn well that anything they hand out at Fanfest has a super high value at first and that they decided to knowingly give ships to hundreds of accounts belonging to the same person. Just the act of giving highly valuable items to accounts that aren't even subscribed is completely mind boggling.
There are people currently out there who exploited Alpha clones to such a state that they have already cashed in billions, if not trillions of ISK thanks to this monumental f*ckup. Does it inject ISK into the economy? No. Is it fair? No. No-one complaining about Fanfest attendees getting a gift that happens to be worth a few hundred million or a billion. What happened here is that one person was given so many 'rare' ships that they got a cash injection of close to a trillion ISK as a direct result of CCP's actions.
If CCP refuses to see how this is a problem, god help us all.
So yes, put some effort into fixing this and
1. Remove all CONCORD ships that were given out from the game.
2. Revert every single transaction that involved one of those ships.
3. Then give them out again, once per ticket. As it should have been done in the first place.
4. And if that makes them 'too rare' just seed them into the game via alternative means.
But the situation as it currently stands is completely unacceptable.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
222
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:03:05 -
[68] - Quote
It's not an isk faucet though. People get these ships -> sell them (Isk is actually removed from the game through fees.) And isk is redistributed. |
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
245
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:05:09 -
[69] - Quote
CCP_Falcon wrote:Yes, these are per account, it's intentional :)
Thx for making me understand what salt feels like. I needed this experience in my life.
Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16165
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:05:51 -
[70] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I found the underlying point of contention here. I guess this strikes against some people's idea of 'fairness'.
I don't think such ideas apply, CCP can do as they please with stuff they own, which is everything in EVE. And CCP clearly stated in the article that was on the launcher that the rewards would be per account. Like everything else in EVE, the people who paid attention (instead of just assuming it would be "per ticket") benefit from it.
Oh and that last sentence is gold. Yea i'm sure developers who could probably spawn isk into their own wallets without being caught would instead come up with a convoluted, sure to be noticed and sure to fail conspiracy plan that EVE forum posters could see a mile away lol.
This forum needs a facepalm emoji lol.
No, you're just not understanding what happened here, but forming an opinion anyway. You can get up to speed here. The people who got hundreds, did so because they had massed accounts to take advantage of an exploit. This decision rewarded that exploit. Sure, CCP can do as they like. But that doesn't remove the consequences of their actions. The players can do as they like as well. Guess who's an alpha clone next month? This guy. Along with many others. If you want to continue to subscribe to a game with fundamentally broken mechanics, compounded by devs making bad decisions willy nilly, and ISD locking any threads they don't like while posting as faithful apologists, feel free. EVE is a game that's played in the long-term. Playing a game where your development is planned a year at a time, requires faith that the team at the wheel isn't going botch things every time they touch it. If I were a shareholder, after this week I'd move for a no confidence vote.
I'm always amazed at how people get ticked off at some inconsequential thing then they get further ticked off at the people who aren't ticked off. You think I don't know all the stuff you just posted?
People are acting like CCP shot their dog or something. Ghost training, Rogue swarm, rebalance efforts, now fanfest ships. Is this International "1st world problems" month or something? If you don't like what CCP is doing just stop paying them.
|
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Uthgaard
Because Wardec
32
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:07:52 -
[71] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:It's not an isk faucet though. People get these ships -> sell them (Isk is actually removed from the game through fees.) And isk is redistributed.
It doesn't much matter whether it was a faucet or a tidal wave. The economy is flooded. |
FIX IT
Numbers Inc
24
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:11:18 -
[72] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:If you don't like what CCP is doing just stop paying them.
I think that a lot of people are considering just that, which is not good. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
258
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:15:17 -
[73] - Quote
Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets |
Crash 888
TRINTEX
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:15:56 -
[74] - Quote
Watching fanbois impotently rage against a game they cannot bring themselves to quit because of their massive sunken cost syndrome (a result of a quite foolish and improvident decision of making a "hobby" out of a single product) is quite entertaining. Possibly the best entertainment left in this game. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
32
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:17:12 -
[75] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets
The exploit was the ghost training.
Which was why they had all the accounts.
Which was why they got so many ships. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
258
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:21:47 -
[76] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Cypherous wrote:Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets The exploit was the ghost training. Which was why they had all the accounts. Which was why they got so many ships.
Having multiple accounts was never against the rules though, i could have created dozens of trial accounts throughout the last 13 years and still got loads of the ships, at the end of the day the reason for owning multiple accounts is irrelevant here, this distribution is correct and CCP have stated that officially, there is nothing more this thread can accomplish |
Ergum Motsu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:23:03 -
[77] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets
After previously stating "In celebration of the 20th Anniversary of CCP Games, attendees will also be able to get their hands on decommissioned CONCORD vessels as part of Fanfest ticket packages this year.
Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser."
The operative word being Ticket Package, no mention of per account held. Literally throwing 100's of ships at people which are currently trading at over 1b isk each, just a wekk after coming out with theres too much isk ingame, being held by too few players smacks of utter stupidity and no thinking going into the impact of their decisions.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16165
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:24:37 -
[78] - Quote
FIX IT wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:If you don't like what CCP is doing just stop paying them.
I think that a lot of people are considering just that, which is not good.
I disagree, Most people who play EVE don't post on forums, read reddit or attend fanfest. A subset of these people quitting just isn't a big deal. The benefit would be less complaining on forums/and reddit...
The truth is that the people making the most noise never really quit even though they threaten to. people who quit do so quietly and usually because they are tired of the game. The people being super vocal about everything are actually trying to influence CCP, they are too invested to quit.
Which is why CCP mostly ignores all of this. They see people hit unsubscribe but they see the same people rescind their quit before it takes effect. They watch the PLEX money keep rolling in. That see the in game activity metrics stay the same.
In other words they know the vocal folks are bluffing. CCP had it's most profitable year last year, a bunch of hurf blurfing online isn't going to change anything.
|
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
32
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:25:32 -
[79] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Having multiple accounts was never against the rules though
No one said having multiple accounts was against the rules... I get the sense that reading is hard for you.
And beside that, CCP did not say per account. They said per ticket. You can read it yourself here... or can you?
Quote:In celebration of Fanfest 2017, we will be issuing a decommissioned CONCORD Pacifier class frigate with the sale of every Fanfest ticket.
In addition to this, weGÇÖll be issuing a decommissioned CONCORD Enforcer class cruiser with every Fanfest ticket that is purchased early, before January 1st 2017. |
FIX IT
Numbers Inc
24
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 13:31:13 -
[80] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: CCP had it's most profitable year last year, a bunch of hurf blurfing online isn't going to change anything.
i think ccp has been doing quite well, I am fine with plex and sp boosters etc, but this last week has been crasy.
i mean they turned of my skill training, on a payed account. I still don't know how long my account wasn't training. This isn't normal. |
|
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
34
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 14:15:22 -
[81] - Quote
FIX IT wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: CCP had it's most profitable year last year, a bunch of hurf blurfing online isn't going to change anything.
i think ccp has been doing quite well, I am fine with plex and sp boosters etc, but this last week has been crasy. i mean they turned of my skill training, on a payed account. I still don't know how long my account wasn't training. This isn't normal. ooo - ccp just declared ghost training an exploit https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-ghost-training/
Satisfying as it is to throw that in the faces of everyone who defended it in this thread, a "reprimand" is hardly adequate to address the impact it had on the game. And it only serves to encourage players to take maximum advantage of future exploits before they're officially declared as such - common sense be damned. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16165
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 14:29:15 -
[82] - Quote
I just saw that, and you can find people who have had 'farms' going complaining already.
To me it's like rorquals and supercarriers and people injecting to get into them. People have to know by now that CCP eventually comes down on stuff like that, but they still go after it, invest time into it, and complain when the inevitable nerf or exploit notification comes.
I've seen it my entire EVE career starting with the folks who complained when CCP fixed the high sec lvl 5 mission bug that "CCP just moved lvl 5s to low sec so that people will go there to do them, lose ships and have to buy PLEX/GTC!!". |
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1214
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 15:38:17 -
[83] - Quote
So they give away trillions of isk to certain players....
Business as usual.
These ships are worst pay to win example I can recall of.
You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear
Because >>I is too hard
|
Erik Valensteed
Angelus.Mortis Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 15:40:21 -
[84] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I just saw that, and you can find people who have had 'farms' going complaining already. To me it's like rorquals and supercarriers and people injecting to get into them.
Can you please clarify what this response? Players can still skill inject int these skills to fly these ships. That is not an exploit. I thought it was a game mechanic. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
258
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 15:48:31 -
[85] - Quote
Ergum Motsu wrote:Cypherous wrote:Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets After previously stating "In celebration of the 20th Anniversary of CCP Games, attendees will also be able to get their hands on decommissioned CONCORD vessels as part of Fanfest ticket packages this year. Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser." The operative word being Ticket Package, no mention of per account held. Literally throwing 100's of ships at people which are currently trading at over 1b isk each, just a wekk after coming out with theres too much isk ingame, being held by too few players smacks of utter stupidity and no thinking going into the impact of their decisions.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/pacifier-enforcer-distribution-complete/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news
And this article published yesterday says its per account registered to the email used, all it does is expand on the original wording, they never stated it was a single package per ticket nor that it didn't include all accounts owned by the person buying the ticket, you assumed one thing and they did a different thing |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
258
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 15:50:28 -
[86] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Cypherous wrote:Having multiple accounts was never against the rules though No one said having multiple accounts was against the rules... I get the sense that reading is hard for you. And beside that, CCP did not say per account. They said per ticket. You can read it yourself here... or can you? Quote:In celebration of Fanfest 2017, we will be issuing a decommissioned CONCORD Pacifier class frigate with the sale of every Fanfest ticket.
In addition to this, weGÇÖll be issuing a decommissioned CONCORD Enforcer class cruiser with every Fanfest ticket that is purchased early, before January 1st 2017.
Yes, A pacifier, and each account got only a single pacifier, they never clearly stated that it was 1 per person anywhere, i mean, you're telling me i didn't read it when you're interpreting it one way when CCP did it another :P |
Ergum Motsu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 15:52:06 -
[87] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Ergum Motsu wrote:Cypherous wrote:Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets After previously stating "In celebration of the 20th Anniversary of CCP Games, attendees will also be able to get their hands on decommissioned CONCORD vessels as part of Fanfest ticket packages this year. Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser." The operative word being Ticket Package, no mention of per account held. Literally throwing 100's of ships at people which are currently trading at over 1b isk each, just a wekk after coming out with theres too much isk ingame, being held by too few players smacks of utter stupidity and no thinking going into the impact of their decisions. https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/pacifier-enforcer-distribution-complete/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news And this article published yesterday says its per account registered to the email used, all it does is expand on the original wording, they never stated it was a single package per ticket nor that it didn't include all accounts owned by the person buying the ticket, you assumed one thing and they did a different thing
Reading is really not your strong point is it.
Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser.
In simple terms, purchase a fanfest ticket, get A Pacifier class frigate, purchase by a certain date and get A enforcer class cruiser.
In the English language, A refers to one, not multiples. Nothing assumed in there, its on the Eve News Article
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16165
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 15:52:27 -
[88] - Quote
Erik Valensteed wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I just saw that, and you can find people who have had 'farms' going complaining already. To me it's like rorquals and supercarriers and people injecting to get into them. Can you please clarify what this response? Players can still skill inject int these skills to fly these ships. That is not an exploit. I thought it was a game mechanic.
Skill injecting isn't an exploit. It's just dumb how people rush into the 'next big thing' that's supposed to make isk without understand that CCP WILL eventually hammer it down, whether it's an exploit (ghost training) or something that isn't an exploit but is unbalanced.
Examples that were not exploits per se but that people complained about when CCP knowed them down:
High sec lvl 5 missions (was a bug, CCP took like 2 years to fix)
The original 250 mil per hour incursions (CCP nerfed after a couple month, then partially unnerfed a few months later)
The 2nd iteration of FW missions that let people make billions the 1st week (they nerfed these but you can still make lots of LP)
With skill injectors people jump whenever they hear of something that sounds lucrative, and this amplifies the problem. CCP used to have months before imbalances became painful, that has turned into days now... |
Erik Valensteed
Angelus.Mortis Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 15:54:58 -
[89] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Erik Valensteed wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I just saw that, and you can find people who have had 'farms' going complaining already. To me it's like rorquals and supercarriers and people injecting to get into them. Can you please clarify what this response? Players can still skill inject int these skills to fly these ships. That is not an exploit. I thought it was a game mechanic. Skill injecting isn't an exploit. It's just dumb how people rush into the 'next big thing' that's supposed to make isk without understand that CCP WILL eventually hammer it down, whether it's an exploit (ghost training) or something that isn't an exploit but is unbalanced. Examples that were not exploits per se but that people complained about when CCP knowed them down: High sec lvl 5 missions (was a bug, CCP took like 2 years to fix) The original 250 mil per hour incursions (CCP nerfed after a couple month, then partially unnerfed a few months later) The 2nd iteration of FW missions that let people make billions the 1st week (they nerfed these but you can still make lots of LP) With skill injectors people jump whenever they hear of something that sounds lucrative, and this amplifies the problem. CCP used to have months before imbalances became painful, that has turned into days now...
Ok, that makes sense now. Thank you
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3221
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 15:59:39 -
[90] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I just saw that, and you can find people who have had 'farms' going complaining already.
Ooooh, where? I wanna see!
I'm having trouble picturing even the average eve-o forum fungus being THAT audacious.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
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Caldari Phantom
Intergalactic systems
11
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:12:18 -
[91] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets
I was thinking about the ghost training, thats an exploit isnt it? The reedemed ships are just nonsense..
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1918
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:23:50 -
[92] - Quote
Quote: 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category.
Removed a post for the above.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
|
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
35
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:27:47 -
[93] - Quote
I guess you just get to do whatever you like and rubber stamp your own decisions? Seems about on par with the rest of CCP this week. |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
368
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:30:51 -
[94] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:All the best to Falcon and the rest of the Community Management team over the next few days. Last weekend will look like champagne and strawberries compared to the rage about to come.
Only thing I can wish is happy packing to all of CCP leadership on the way to the unemployment office. This level of incompetence and mistreatment of your own customers should cost you the job but I don't expect that to happen considering the quality of people on the CCP board.
At this point even EA buying out CCP would not ruin it much more than it already is. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
35
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:32:51 -
[95] - Quote
Caldari Phantom wrote:Cypherous wrote:Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets I was thinking about the ghost training, thats an exploit isnt it? The reedemed ships are just nonsense..
Yes, it was declared an exploit. And now that classification is being used to silence all discussion, despite everyone already knowing exactly what ghost training is - hence the outrage. |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
368
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:33:59 -
[96] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:So they give away trillions of isk to certain players....
Business as usual.
These ships are worst pay to win example I can recall of.
This is bordering on being worse than T20 especially since people who were already abusing ghost training are the ones that get even more rewarded now. Way to go CCP. That EA marketing is really paying off. Good luck at the unemployment office. You are going to need it considering the Icelands economy. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3224
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:36:28 -
[97] - Quote
Axhind wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:So they give away trillions of isk to certain players....
Business as usual.
These ships are worst pay to win example I can recall of. This is bordering on being worse than T20 especially since people who were already abusing ghost training are the ones that get even more rewarded now.
That part does grate a little bit, particularly given the rather underwhelming exploit declaration that seems to suggest that those who have already abused ghost training will be given a pass on any real repercussions, so long as they stop doing it now.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
368
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:41:40 -
[98] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Axhind wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:So they give away trillions of isk to certain players....
Business as usual.
These ships are worst pay to win example I can recall of. This is bordering on being worse than T20 especially since people who were already abusing ghost training are the ones that get even more rewarded now. That part does grate a little bit, particularly given the rather underwhelming exploit declaration that seems to suggest that those who have already abused ghost training will be given a pass on any real repercussions, so long as they stop doing it now.
Just think about how many extractors and injectors they sold thanks to that. Probably they made more Gé¼ that way than on subs. Just that works as long as it is a small amount compared to the rest of the game. Who will buy injectors when everyone stops playing because they can't sit after CCP ****** them in the ass without lube. |
|
CCP Falcon
13773
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 18:36:44 -
[99] - Quote
Hey guys,
A couple of clarifications here. I've also posted these elsewhere, but making sure they're also here for clarity
Firstly as has been said before, these ships are going to become available more openly pretty soon (in the next few weeks or so) as part of in game rewards, and will be available in future as part of offers, promotions and via other means.
In addition to this, IGÇÖve just been speaking with our customer support team, and theyGÇÖve confirmed that as part of the reprimands issued against those whoGÇÖve been abusing Ghost Training, these ships, or the ISK that abusers of Ghost Training have received from the sales of them, will be confiscated as part of any reprimands that are issued.
We recognize the fact that you guys are concerned about this, and wholly accept that this is on us. The intention is not at all to reward anyone for abuse of Ghost Training, and as such weGÇÖll make sure that any reprimands that are issued include removal of this stuff.
Apologies for getting you guys all riled up. ItGÇÖs been a tough week, but weGÇÖll make sure that justice is served.
In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this.
Hope this helps assuage at least some of the concern.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3225
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 18:41:42 -
[100] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, A couple of clarifications here. I've also posted these elsewhere, but making sure they're also here for clarity Firstly as has been said before, these ships are going to become available more openly pretty soon (in the next few weeks or so) as part of in game rewards, and will be available in future as part of offers, promotions and via other means. In addition to this, IGÇÖve just been speaking with our customer support team, and theyGÇÖve confirmed that as part of the reprimands issued against those whoGÇÖve been abusing Ghost Training, these ships, or the ISK that abusers of Ghost Training have received from the sales of them, will be confiscated as part of any reprimands that are issued. We recognize the fact that you guys are concerned about this, and wholly accept that this is on us. The intention is not at all to reward anyone for abuse of Ghost Training, and as such weGÇÖll make sure that any reprimands that are issued include removal of this stuff. Apologies for getting you guys all riled up. ItGÇÖs been a tough week, but weGÇÖll make sure that justice is served. In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this. Hope this helps assuage at least some of the concern.
Good to hear. And, hey! Here's a good opportunity to outright delete a chunk of that excess carrier ratting ISK that's been generated since Citadel.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Kixx
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 18:42:34 -
[101] - Quote
So you basically are shooting the messenger and you really don't want people coming forward showing your errors.
The precedent is now set if you get away with something CCP blatantly overlooks then keep your mouth shut and collect.
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Erik Valensteed
Angelus.Mortis Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 19:07:53 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, A couple of clarifications here. I've also posted these elsewhere, but making sure they're also here for clarity Firstly as has been said before, these ships are going to become available more openly pretty soon (in the next few weeks or so) as part of in game rewards, and will be available in future as part of offers, promotions and via other means. In addition to this, IGÇÖve just been speaking with our customer support team, and theyGÇÖve confirmed that as part of the reprimands issued against those whoGÇÖve been abusing Ghost Training, these ships, or the ISK that abusers of Ghost Training have received from the sales of them, will be confiscated as part of any reprimands that are issued. We recognize the fact that you guys are concerned about this, and wholly accept that this is on us. The intention is not at all to reward anyone for abuse of Ghost Training, and as such weGÇÖll make sure that any reprimands that are issued include removal of this stuff. Apologies for getting you guys all riled up. ItGÇÖs been a tough week, but weGÇÖll make sure that justice is served. In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this. Hope this helps assuage at least some of the concern.
Please help me understand something. Developers designed and programmed a game. Some of your customers, who have, one way or the other, paid at least $16 USD per month to play, per account, figured out a way to use the program in a way You did not intend or foresee. This was not done through any software hack or scam, but used the system that you designed. Now you have discovered it and decided that your paying customer base is at fault because you failed to program the system correctly. A good business model would be to say, " we did not mean for that to happen and are changing the program." No harm/no foul. Taking isk/ships/etc. from the customer because you are at fault is inappropriate in my opinion. Unless plex somehow spawns in-game, you have receive a monetary payment for every omega subscription each month. Please explain why the players who used this "exploit" are going to lose items. How did they cost your company real money? How did they compromise your product? Are you going on advise of a sound business advisor, or a group of gamers that get butt hurt over changing the formula of Mountain Dew? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3225
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 19:10:12 -
[103] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I just saw that, and you can find people who have had 'farms' going complaining already. Ooooh, where? I wanna see! I'm having trouble picturing even the average eve-o forum fungus being THAT audacious.
Nevermind, Jenn, looks like Erik Valensteed has this one covered.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Uthgaard
Because Wardec
38
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 19:21:58 -
[104] - Quote
Kixx wrote:So you basically are shooting the messenger and you really don't want people coming forward showing your errors.
The precedent is now set if you get away with something CCP blatantly overlooks then keep your mouth shut and collect.
"Hey guys someone left their safe open. Just letting you know. I took everything I could carry for my trouble. To hell with how that affects everyone else."
That does not exactly qualify for shooting the messenger. So sorry you don't get to keep what you knew you shouldn't have exploited, but that's not exactly "precedent". It's specifically stated in the rules.
Letting you get away with it would tell everyone it's okay to exploit things as much as possible before they're declared exploits.
Plot twist: it's not. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
38
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 19:31:14 -
[105] - Quote
Erik Valensteed wrote:Please help me understand something.
Long rambly paragraph of false statements - most notably "paid at least $16 USD per month...per account"
If that was what they did, that would just be called "playing the game". That's not what happened - you knew that already but I'm going to correct your narrative anyway. It's called ghost training because the training continued at omega speed for up to 19 months after plexing for ONE month.
And if you're not sure why you're the dregs of society, I already have that spelled out quite clearly right here. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 19:32:55 -
[106] - Quote
Well i hope these ships become more accessible in the future, as someone got more than 200 of them now and sold them. While we others can't even get 1 of those new ships.
And i am not paying 3bil+ for one ship that ccp will remove from the market or remove it from owners because of this "bug"..
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Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
258
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 19:52:25 -
[107] - Quote
Ergum Motsu wrote:Cypherous wrote:Ergum Motsu wrote:Cypherous wrote:Caldari Phantom wrote:Everyone who has exploitet needs to loose everything they have gained. Easy.. And every isk they have made since then.
This is a game people actually pay for. And have done for many years.. I myself paid hundreds of dollars, im guessing a few thousand dollars. I pay this knowing everyone else plays on the same page, with the same set of rules..
Fix it, and fix it fast..
Its not an exploit, CCP have OFFICIALLY stated that people would get a package of ships per account registered to the email that purchased the tickets After previously stating "In celebration of the 20th Anniversary of CCP Games, attendees will also be able to get their hands on decommissioned CONCORD vessels as part of Fanfest ticket packages this year. Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser." The operative word being Ticket Package, no mention of per account held. Literally throwing 100's of ships at people which are currently trading at over 1b isk each, just a wekk after coming out with theres too much isk ingame, being held by too few players smacks of utter stupidity and no thinking going into the impact of their decisions. https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/pacifier-enforcer-distribution-complete/?utm_source=launcher&utm_medium=news And this article published yesterday says its per account registered to the email used, all it does is expand on the original wording, they never stated it was a single package per ticket nor that it didn't include all accounts owned by the person buying the ticket, you assumed one thing and they did a different thing Reading is really not your strong point is it. Every purchase of a Fanfest 2017 ticket will include the issue of a CONCORD Pacifier class frigate, and those who purchase their tickets before January 1st 2017 will also be able to get their hands on a decommissioned Enforcer class CONCORD cruiser. In simple terms, purchase a fanfest ticket, get A Pacifier class frigate, purchase by a certain date and get A enforcer class cruiser. In the English language, A refers to one, not multiples. Nothing assumed in there, its on the Eve News Article
Yes A does refer to one, it doesn't specify in the original article how that single unit will be applied, it does NOT mention anywhere that its not per account you own, which is what they went with, i mean you can argue it all you want but CCP has stated that this is how it works, and as it is THEIR giveaway they can choose to do wha they like aslong as they don't decide not to give a fanfest attendee atleast 1 of the ships they were eligible for |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
41
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 20:11:24 -
[108] - Quote
Dude I think we can safely move on from that point. You've been running it into the ground all morning. Even the devs have said you're wrong.
Move on. |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
368
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 20:11:42 -
[109] - Quote
Kixx wrote:So you basically are shooting the messenger and you really don't want people coming forward showing your errors.
The precedent is now set if you get away with something CCP blatantly overlooks then keep your mouth shut and collect.
Aryth and co got parts of their profits confiscated too when they revealed how to farm FW for infinite money. In this case the person that started the thread on reddit has already said that he expected 1 ship per person not account. In both cases people have come out and exposed a thing that is bad for the game rather than sit on it for personal profit.
Same with ghost training, I'm perfectly fine if they go back and remove any and all SP/money that has resulted from that even if I would be personally impacted (had no idea what it was and some of my accounts have expired since alphas were introduced so might have profited from it all). Health of EVE is much more important than some personal profit! |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
41
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 20:17:25 -
[110] - Quote
Axhind wrote:people have come out and exposed a thing that is bad for the game rather than sit on it for personal profit.
Yeah that's not even remotely accurate. Dude sold all of the ships and bragged about all the cash he made.
TF out of here with trying to act like he reported it to CCP and donated the proceeds to orphans. |
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
430
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 20:17:27 -
[111] - Quote
... and another blunder that makes a few players filthy rich in no time. Why even bother making ISK the traditional way? Just wait for the next overbuff of a ship class or the next event that drops rare high-value items en masse or the next hand out of billions of ISK for people with lots of accounts.
And those are the legal ways. Im not even starting with all the exploits, because then my post will probably get deleted. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
258
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 20:45:49 -
[112] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Dude I think we can safely move on from that point. You've been running it into the ground all morning. Even the devs have said you're wrong.
Move on.
Who are you referring to, if its me they haven't proven anything i've said wrong, you're caught up on the ghost training guy, doesn't change that people who didn't exploit ghost training will be getting multiple ships as per the article in the launcher :P |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
368
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 20:51:59 -
[113] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Axhind wrote:people have come out and exposed a thing that is bad for the game rather than sit on it for personal profit. Yeah that's not even remotely accurate. Dude sold all of the ships and bragged about all the cash he made. TF out of here with trying to act like he reported it to CCP and donated the proceeds to orphans.
Aryth and rest of the jewball did the same. They warned CCP that this was an issue before the change was implemented but as usual CCP ignored the advice. Only way to get it changed was to show people just how huge of an effect it has.
Just like things get nerfed once we (goons) start doing them so much that even CCP devs have to admit that it is broken as **** and has to be fixed. Remember how everyone told them that entosis interceptors are broken as ****? Nothing happened until it was shown to be so on TQ by us and others. Sadly CCP has huge issues with ego's which is not strange considering the incompetent people sitting on its board of directors. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
41
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 20:54:03 -
[114] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:because then my post will probably get deleted.
That's a safe bet. I've had 2 yoinked from this thread and a thread lock. Which is silly because the same ISD who did it can be found defending the thoroughly described process all over the first three pages before it was officially declared an exploit. |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35206
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 21:06:28 -
[115] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Algarion Getz wrote:because then my post will probably get deleted. That's a safe bet. I've had 2 yoinked from this thread and a thread lock. Which is silly because the same ISD who did it can be found defending the thoroughly described process all over the first three pages before it was officially declared an exploit. That means there is a mess everywhere on their side. If it would be easy for them to solve, than CCP stance would be clear from beginning.
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GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Salu Kelmalu
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 21:11:16 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, A couple of clarifications here. I've also posted these elsewhere, but making sure they're also here for clarity Firstly as has been said before, these ships are going to become available more openly pretty soon (in the next few weeks or so) as part of in game rewards, and will be available in future as part of offers, promotions and via other means. In addition to this, IGÇÖve just been speaking with our customer support team, and theyGÇÖve confirmed that as part of the reprimands issued against those whoGÇÖve been abusing Ghost Training, these ships, or the ISK that abusers of Ghost Training have received from the sales of them, will be confiscated as part of any reprimands that are issued. We recognize the fact that you guys are concerned about this, and wholly accept that this is on us. The intention is not at all to reward anyone for abuse of Ghost Training, and as such weGÇÖll make sure that any reprimands that are issued include removal of this stuff. Apologies for getting you guys all riled up. ItGÇÖs been a tough week, but weGÇÖll make sure that justice is served. In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this. Hope this helps assuage at least some of the concern.
Thanks for coming on and clarifying. |
Gogela
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3453
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 22:48:21 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:*snip*
In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this.
*snip*
Yah... the follow-through it the tough part. Removing ships and ISK is the kicker. This was a massive screw-up but I don't think it's something that will actually get fixed.
I would bet some alt-alpha accounts will be 300 billion in the red. Those accounts will just get scrapped. I would be pretty surprised if any real ships or ISK were confiscated. -300 billion (or whatever) x however many alt-alpha accounts and the problem will be marked "fixed".
I hope I'm wrong... but I've been here a while and see how things get "fixed".
Meh. This game is giving off a real pay-to-win vibe lately. Can't say I care for it.
Signatures should be used responsibly...
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1920
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 23:30:05 -
[118] - Quote
Quote: 6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.
Racism, gender stereotyping, hate speech, and sexism are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges.
12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category.
Removed post for one or more of the above reasons.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
|
Dirty-Rotten-Pirate
Rancer Tourism Association
69
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 03:16:17 -
[119] - Quote
So - If I make ISK by playing the game, rather than spend that time setting up accounts, then I am missing out on an opportunity?
I am looking forward to seeing how many accounts per hour I can make. Is there an upper limit to the number of accounts per email address?
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Selphentine
Aliastra Gallente Federation
168
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 03:39:48 -
[120] - Quote
Falcon just said its going to be removed. You can stop posting that its unfair now, as long as it actually happens. |
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Gogela
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3455
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 06:06:56 -
[121] - Quote
Dirty-Rotten-Pirate wrote:So - If I make ISK by playing the game, rather than spend that time setting up accounts, then I am missing out on an opportunity?
I am looking forward to seeing how many accounts per hour I can make. Is there an upper limit to the number of accounts per email address?
#accountsonline #ccp
Signatures should be used responsibly...
|
Black Color
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 06:33:56 -
[122] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:I'm about as Fanboy for CCP as anyone gets, but CCPls.
You mean youre as delusional about ccp and eve as a 2017 eve player can be?
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
5944
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 06:46:59 -
[123] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, A couple of clarifications here. I've also posted these elsewhere, but making sure they're also here for clarity Firstly as has been said before, these ships are going to become available more openly pretty soon (in the next few weeks or so) as part of in game rewards, and will be available in future as part of offers, promotions and via other means. In addition to this, IGÇÖve just been speaking with our customer support team, and theyGÇÖve confirmed that as part of the reprimands issued against those whoGÇÖve been abusing Ghost Training, these ships, or the ISK that abusers of Ghost Training have received from the sales of them, will be confiscated as part of any reprimands that are issued. We recognize the fact that you guys are concerned about this, and wholly accept that this is on us. The intention is not at all to reward anyone for abuse of Ghost Training, and as such weGÇÖll make sure that any reprimands that are issued include removal of this stuff. Apologies for getting you guys all riled up. ItGÇÖs been a tough week, but weGÇÖll make sure that justice is served. In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this. Hope this helps assuage at least some of the concern.
You still miss the core of the issue. Why should anyone setting up N alpha accounts for whatever reason be rewarded Nx more than the guy who just owns one Omega account? You're literally telling people to set up additional accounts just in case that they ever win a "one per account on email" lottery ticket.
Yes, those ships will become usual and will go a dozen for a dime and yadda yadda yadda. But upon release, you're handing out literal bilions to alpha accounts. Removing the shady ones doesn't changes that.
N+1 you peasants! CCP vult! |
Wanda Fayne
648
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 06:50:06 -
[124] - Quote
Sad.
So sad.
"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-
- -
"hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
4180
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 06:52:35 -
[125] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I just saw that, and you can find people who have had 'farms' going complaining already.
To me it's like rorquals and supercarriers and people injecting to get into them. People have to know by now that CCP eventually comes down on stuff like that, but they still go after it, invest time into it, and complain when the inevitable nerf or exploit notification comes.
I've seen it my entire EVE career starting with the folks who complained when CCP fixed the high sec lvl 5 mission bug that "CCP just moved lvl 5s to low sec so that people will go there to do them, lose ships and have to buy PLEX/GTC!!". Yeah, it was pretty obvious they would eventually do that. Still it is completely idiotic and always was how they handle such situations.
1) It was their fault, they introduced the bug and people notified them about it even before it hit TQ. 2) CCP refused for months to even acknowledge the bug and to release a exploit notification while people where basically begging for it. 3) After a week of constant pressure because of multiple failures they finally do acknowledge that it is game breaking, but instead of acknowledging that it was actually their fault to start with they now once again go after the players.
And yeah, we all like that very much, when the people who got rich because of whatever get killed of it pleases us doesn't it? So let's forget about all the stuff CCP screwed up while we attend the life burning of the heathens and once again cheer for CCP to turn the temperature a bit higher. Seams like an age old tradition which is still working.
And before you even start to think I write this because I abused ghost training, No I did not, it was pretty clear this would happen, but not everyone has the benefit of 10 years knowledge of CCP behaviour.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
5944
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 06:58:42 -
[126] - Quote
Selphentine wrote:Falcon just said its going to be removed. You can stop posting that its unfair now, as long as it actually happens.
The shady ones yes. But that doesn't sorts that setting up 150+ alpha accounts on your favorite e-mail account is something you should do for the next lottery ticket. A paid account can't become any less valuable than being shafted for being 1 PAID instead of 150 FREE.
It was as simple as "one set per email account" but oh they just had to allow CCP Bigthumbs* near the thing...
*CCP Bigthumbs is a fictional character who, among other things, named a installation file of EVE Online exactly as a core file of OS (boot.ini), decided what Incarna should be relased like, reinforced the wrong node in a massive battle and disconnected everyone, released a online shop with delivery cost more expensive thna the actual items, and so and so. He's a walking shoddiness. |
Salvos Rhoska
3039
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 07:02:04 -
[127] - Quote
Erik Valensteed wrote: Taking isk/ships/etc. from the customer because you are at fault is inappropriate in my opinion.
They where never meant to receive that extra in the first place. Wasnt part of the deal. It was a mistake on CCPs part, from which some customers received undue advantage over other customers.
They wont lose anything they ever paid for, and CCP shoulders the cost of enacting the return of the excess.
Furthermore, all digital/intellectual property in EVE is owned by CCP and they have complete control over all of it.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
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Erik Valensteed
Angelus.Mortis Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 10:57:31 -
[128] - Quote
You guys are seriously calling people "dregs of society," who you feel were unjust in the way they played the game. Uhmm, it's a game and you are taking this way too seriously. I hope that you have the same passion in real life. Like, write the newspaper about individuals who use social systems for handouts when they are healthy enough to work; or call your legislative bodies to complain about those who expect free housing and college without contributing anything to society. If you don't reflect this same "righteous outrage" in the real world, you should really reflect on who/what you are. |
Dirty-Rotten-Pirate
Rancer Tourism Association
71
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 11:09:32 -
[129] - Quote
Erik Valensteed wrote: ..I hope that you have the same passion in real life.....
Its funny you say that - actually my actions in Eve and real life do mirror themselves.
I love murdering innocent and unsuspecting people in Eve whilst rejoicing in their suffering, and in real life there is nothing I love better than.. um. hmm.
I better shut up.
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3450
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 11:37:31 -
[130] - Quote
Gogela wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:*snip*
In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this.
*snip* Yah... the follow-through it the tough part. Removing ships and ISK is the kicker. This was a massive screw-up but I don't think it's something that will actually get fixed. I would bet some alt-alpha accounts will be 300 billion in the red. Those accounts will just get scrapped. I would be pretty surprised if any real ships or ISK were confiscated. -300 billion (or whatever) x however many alt-alpha accounts and the problem will be marked "fixed". I hope I'm wrong... but I've been here a while and see how things get "fixed". Meh. This game is giving off a real pay-to-win vibe lately. Can't say I care for it.
You are completely correct. CCP is going to be completely overwhelmed by the money laundering going on with this, and a ton of innocent people will get hurt, while many many guilty ones will laugh all the way to the bank.
What happens to joe player who bought in good faith one of these soon-to-be confiscated ships? How does CCP give him his ISK back if the guilty party has already has moved that ISK into other assets that were purchased by other innocent players? Does that transaction also get reversed out?
Here is a likely scenario:
Player A, the guilty party, sells a bunch of these ships to Players B, C, D, E, and F, all innocents. Player A, then uses that ISK to buy 20 carriers combined from Players G, H, and I, also innocents, except for player G. Player G is an alt of player A though.
Player H, who sold say, 5 carriers, to player A, but has now sunk that cash into multiple other projects, and has very little cash in his account. Oh, BTW, those projects he sunk that cash into involved transactions with players J, K and L.
Just how far is CCP willing to go to rollback the money laundering that is clearly underway?
Oh, and Player A, with his alt Player G, who maybe sold 10 of those original 20 carriers to player A, well, he knows that this gets way too tangled for CCP, and laughs his way to the bank.
CCP will never, ever tell us the results of this latest screw-up, because we all realize that every minute this goes on, the more impossible it will be to follow the money and roll back transactions. It is no surprise that CCP is begging people to turn themselves in, because CCP simply doesn't have the people to catch and punish all involved.
Plus, I am not even beginning to get into the skill portion of this. Since the game went pay-to-win, skills are an asset as well, but pulling illicit skills out of an innocent's head is going to be a PR nightmare.
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
582
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 12:03:58 -
[131] - Quote
CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted. |
Erik Valensteed
Angelus.Mortis Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 12:15:18 -
[132] - Quote
Dirty-Rotten-Pirate wrote:Erik Valensteed wrote: ..I hope that you have the same passion in real life..... Its funny you say that - actually my actions in Eve and real life do mirror themselves. I love murdering innocent and unsuspecting people in Eve whilst rejoicing in their suffering, and in real life there is nothing I love better than.. um. hmm. I better shut up.
Rofl, so, are you saying that your rant is "in character?" If so, I am impressed and take back everything I said. I didn't realize that you were role-playing. Well played, well played. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3450
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 12:17:19 -
[133] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted.
So no problem then. The guilty parties sell off all the toys to their alt's, then transfer the cash from these sales to other alt's or buy assets. And they get off scot free. You can't truly believe that if someone who has set up a sophisticated system of farming alts (because the same people that profit from this the most are the same ones ghost training) does not have an equally sophisticated system of moving the cash. |
Erik Valensteed
Angelus.Mortis Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 12:21:46 -
[134] - Quote
I wish I would have had the resources to take advanatage of ghost training, but I did not. But I am also the guy who put in "money cheats" in games like command and conquer. I guess you righteous lot never did that. Anyway, if I had, what I would do now is set up a bunch of alpha clones not tied to my account and mine some Velds, put one unit on the market for a billion isk, and have my main purchase it. Distribute my assets in that manner. Then when you start pulling my "ill gotten gains," there would be none. You could not pull isk from players I purchased items from, or you would have to pull isk from EVERY PLAYER WHO EVER BENEFITTED from my "isk farm." I hope none of the righteous few ever sold anything to those dastardly "ghost trainers."
Oh, and this post is completely a role-play of what my character would be saying |
Erik Valensteed
Angelus.Mortis Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 12:30:31 -
[135] - Quote
Erik Valensteed wrote:I wish I would have had the resources to take advanatage of ghost training, but I did not. But I am also the guy who put in "money cheats" in games like command and conquer. I guess you righteous lot never did that. Anyway, if I had, what I would do now is set up a bunch of alpha clones not tied to my account and mine some Velds, put one unit on the market for a billion isk, and have my main purchase it. Distribute my assets in that manner. Then when you start pulling my "ill gotten gains," there would be none. You could not pull isk from players I purchased items from, or you would have to pull isk from EVERY PLAYER WHO EVER BENEFITTED from my "isk farm." I hope none of the righteous few ever sold anything to those dastardly "ghost trainers."
Oh, and this post is completely a role-play of what my character would be saying
So after my long rant, I read that the three people above me said basically the same thing. My troll game is off kilter
|
Buggs LeRoach
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 14:09:47 -
[136] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted. So no problem then. The guilty parties sell off all the toys to their alt's, then transfer the cash from these sales to other alt's or buy assets. And they get off scot free. You can't truly believe that if someone who has set up a sophisticated system of farming alts (because the same people that profit from this the most are the same ones ghost training) does not have an equally sophisticated system of moving the cash.
ever try selling something , when you've got a negative wallet ? let ccp police their game , sit back relax , and wait for the tears . no use of you speculating on something when you have no idea how game mechanics actually work ... |
Joan Maetsuycker
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 14:32:09 -
[137] - Quote
the ghost farmers did get gifts for their efford of skill training and new players that take a 12 month subscription get a middle finger from CCP |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3450
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 14:32:18 -
[138] - Quote
Buggs LeRoach wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted. So no problem then. The guilty parties sell off all the toys to their alt's, then transfer the cash from these sales to other alt's or buy assets. And they get off scot free. You can't truly believe that if someone who has set up a sophisticated system of farming alts (because the same people that profit from this the most are the same ones ghost training) does not have an equally sophisticated system of moving the cash. ever try selling something , when you've got a negative wallet ? let ccp police their game , sit back relax , and wait for the tears . no use of you speculating on something when you have no idea how game mechanics actually work ...
Been around a long long time.
And you are wrong, by the time CCP moves on this, the cash will be laundered through so many hands there is no way they can hurt the smart player. Sure, they can remove the ISK from the original account that had the ship awarded to it. And that might hurt the guy if it his primary omega account. But it is meaningless when the account was an alpha that was being shut down anyway, and all assets and skills have already been stripped from it by its owner, never to be used again anyway. |
Dravos Tarimus
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 19:06:20 -
[139] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:FIX IT wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote: So would you like CCP to removed the ships? What is your ideal solution to this situation?
CCP could use the existing reward mechanism and hand out copies of them to every account in eve crashing the price to limit the damage (this can be done with a click of a button, you already got the ships and the gift mechanism) Then give a different gift to each attendees, one per ticket. Or you can watch as several dozen people become filthy rich. Wait i remember something like this from before, ahh yes, ccp has printed and handed out tech 2 bpos to their buddies. Has ccp checked who is going to benefit from this "intended" action and if they have connections to ccp employees? Oh and that last sentence is gold. Yea i'm sure developers who could probably spawn isk into their own wallets without being caught would instead come up with a convoluted, sure to be noticed and sure to fail conspiracy plan that EVE forum posters could see a mile away lol. It's happened before |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6685
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 20:03:24 -
[140] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Demonspawn 666 wrote:It's all good though..... Right now CCP will be panicking and rushing through the code to give us all one or two of these ships so they can say they listened and they are fair. Meanwhile....... Completely missing the point as in doing that they crash the market for the ships, making them relatively worthless and the 1% who ghost trained hundreds of accounts have already cashed in at the top of the market and got richer. Very very well trolled CCP! I can only assume that crashing the price of these ships was the intention of linking it to accounts, but Lordy, what a tone-deaf thing to do. It looks terrible to reward one person who sat in a seat at FanFest with 2 free ships, and the person next to him with 50 because he was a multi-boxer or SP farmer or whatever. Maybe if it was tied to Omega status you could try to make a case (although you would still look greedy for doing so), but as it is you have various FanFest attendees being awarded with a number of ships with a variance of one or two magnitudes, based on nothing but how many accounts they have set up which looks horribly unfair. They should have just given 10 or 20 ships to each person if they wanted to keep the cost down initially. This unequal distribution appears unfair, actually is unfair, and serves no discernible purpose to me. Do they really want us to each make a hundred-plus empty accounts to maximize the amount of future give-aways we receive? I can't believe no-one on the development team saw the trouble this decision was going to lead to. With human nature what is it, the uproar was entirely predictable and avoidable. They somehow managed to take a kind gesture that should have bought them goodwill and turned into another PR headache. People will get over this minor fracas faster than some of your other recent missteps CCP, but seriously, you guys need to up your game and stop making these mistakes. You have burnt a lot of goodwill in recent years and you can't afford to waste any more with fumbles like this one. Edit: You know, while I think we all appreciate little gifts like this from time-to-time as long as they are distributed fairly, this brouhaha underscores why CCP really should take a hands-off approach to messing with the economics of the sandbox. SKINs and vanity items are one thing, but when items with real utility and value are being spawned into the universe, CCP should be very careful that there is no appearance they are doing this unfairly. Is this the same type of dev meddling that led to the creation of the CSM in the first place? CSM, care to comment on these recent events?
Ironically, many of those complaining about the carrier/super nerf advocated solutions that are quite arguably unfair to people who do not rat in carriers or supers, or even do not rat at all.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
|
Valdr Auduin
CatPack
24
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 20:41:30 -
[141] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:All the best to Falcon and the rest of the Community Management team over the next few days. Last weekend will look like champagne and strawberries compared to the rage about to come. Ah, you know what they say, the biggest turds always float to the top of the bowl. That or they must really despise everyone on reddit. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6685
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 21:58:48 -
[142] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Henry Plantgenet wrote:It's not an isk faucet though. People get these ships -> sell them (Isk is actually removed from the game through fees.) And isk is redistributed. It doesn't much matter whether it was a faucet or a tidal wave. The economy is flooded. And the isk isn't redistributed, it's further consolidated, because these are the same people who just raked in billions by selling their exploited sp. And the more they exploited that, the more ships they just got.
Uhhh...no.
This results in no money creation at all.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6685
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 22:01:19 -
[143] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:So they give away trillions of isk to certain players....
Business as usual.
These ships are worst pay to win example I can recall of.
Uhh, not quite. That these players might get lots of ISK selling such ships is not the same as creating the ISK de novo.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6685
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 22:07:46 -
[144] - Quote
Erik Valensteed wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, A couple of clarifications here. I've also posted these elsewhere, but making sure they're also here for clarity Firstly as has been said before, these ships are going to become available more openly pretty soon (in the next few weeks or so) as part of in game rewards, and will be available in future as part of offers, promotions and via other means. In addition to this, IGÇÖve just been speaking with our customer support team, and theyGÇÖve confirmed that as part of the reprimands issued against those whoGÇÖve been abusing Ghost Training, these ships, or the ISK that abusers of Ghost Training have received from the sales of them, will be confiscated as part of any reprimands that are issued. We recognize the fact that you guys are concerned about this, and wholly accept that this is on us. The intention is not at all to reward anyone for abuse of Ghost Training, and as such weGÇÖll make sure that any reprimands that are issued include removal of this stuff. Apologies for getting you guys all riled up. ItGÇÖs been a tough week, but weGÇÖll make sure that justice is served. In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this. Hope this helps assuage at least some of the concern. Please help me understand something. Developers designed and programmed a game. Some of your customers, who have, one way or the other, paid at least $16 USD per month to play, per account, figured out a way to use the program in a way You did not intend or foresee. This was not done through any software hack or scam, but used the system that you designed. Now you have discovered it and decided that your paying customer base is at fault because you failed to program the system correctly. A good business model would be to say, " we did not mean for that to happen and are changing the program." No harm/no foul. Taking isk/ships/etc. from the customer because you are at fault is inappropriate in my opinion. Unless plex somehow spawns in-game, you have receive a monetary payment for every omega subscription each month. Please explain why the players who used this "exploit" are going to lose items. How did they cost your company real money? How did they compromise your product? Are you going on advise of a sound business advisor, or a group of gamers that get butt hurt over changing the formula of Mountain Dew?
OMFG....
WITF?
So, people are complaining CCP has benefitted those using a bug now deemed an exploit, and here we have somebody complaining about CCP showing up ITT and saying, "We are not going to let those who benefit from the ghost training bug keep these ships or any ISK they made selling them". Really?
Please, STFU and GTFO.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6685
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 22:13:00 -
[145] - Quote
Gogela wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:*snip*
In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this.
*snip* Yah... the follow-through it the tough part. Removing ships and ISK is the kicker. This was a massive screw-up but I don't think it's something that will actually get fixed. I would bet some alt-alpha accounts will be 300 billion in the red. Those accounts will just get scrapped. I would be pretty surprised if any real ships or ISK were confiscated. -300 billion (or whatever) x however many alt-alpha accounts and the problem will be marked "fixed". I hope I'm wrong... but I've been here a while and see how things get "fixed". Meh. This game is giving off a real pay-to-win vibe lately. Can't say I care for it.
Not quite.
Okay, so alpha account gets a free ship. Guy logs in and transfers it to his main, who then sells it. The main account is going to get dinged. Not the alpha account. CCP knows how to follow the money, this is how it works when people buy ISK illegally.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6685
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 22:14:24 -
[146] - Quote
Valdr Auduin wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:All the best to Falcon and the rest of the Community Management team over the next few days. Last weekend will look like champagne and strawberries compared to the rage about to come. Ah, you know what they say, the biggest turds always float to the top of the bowl. That or they must really despise everyone on reddit. ED: Going over how they tend to react here and on reddit, I think the second case my be the truth. HAve we gotten a professional response from CCP personnel yet? I'm playing the actual game and don't want to read through another trilogy.
See that thing at the top that says First Dev post? Click that.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3209
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 22:17:24 -
[147] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:I think I am legitimately done with the game. Why bother playing the game and making isk when you can pull stuff like this and make so much more? probably too late, but, can I have your stuff?
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6685
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 22:18:28 -
[148] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted. So no problem then. The guilty parties sell off all the toys to their alt's, then transfer the cash from these sales to other alt's or buy assets. And they get off scot free. You can't truly believe that if someone who has set up a sophisticated system of farming alts (because the same people that profit from this the most are the same ones ghost training) does not have an equally sophisticated system of moving the cash.
No, CCP can follow the money on these things.
So:
Exploiter A sells to B. B keeps the ship, CCP drains the ISK out of exploiter A's wallet. Exploiter A transfers the ISK to Alt C? C's wallet is drained.
This is what CCP does when people buy ISK illegally. They drain the wallet of the person who bought the ISK. If that person buys stuff they do not drain the wallet's of those players, just the guy who broke the EULA which is how people get negative ISK balances.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3452
|
Posted - 2017.06.17 05:36:45 -
[149] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted. So no problem then. The guilty parties sell off all the toys to their alt's, then transfer the cash from these sales to other alt's or buy assets. And they get off scot free. You can't truly believe that if someone who has set up a sophisticated system of farming alts (because the same people that profit from this the most are the same ones ghost training) does not have an equally sophisticated system of moving the cash. No, CCP can follow the money on these things. So: Exploiter A sells to B. B keeps the ship, CCP drains the ISK out of exploiter A's wallet. Exploiter A transfers the ISK to Alt C? C's wallet is drained. This is what CCP does when people buy ISK illegally. They drain the wallet of the person who bought the ISK. If that person buys stuff they do not drain the wallet's of those players, just the guy who broke the EULA which is how people get negative ISK balances.
And like I posted before, what happens when exploiter A sells the ship to B, then buys assets from those proceeds from player C, who is innocent? Who, precisely, does CCP take the ISK from, especially if Player B has lost the ship, and Player C has in turn bought assets from players D, E, and F with the cash he got from player A? |
Expendable Unit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2017.06.17 15:14:23 -
[150] - Quote
useless |
|
Expendable Unit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2017.06.17 15:19:02 -
[151] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, A couple of clarifications here. I've also posted these elsewhere, but making sure they're also here for clarity Firstly as has been said before, these ships are going to become available more openly pretty soon (in the next few weeks or so) as part of in game rewards, and will be available in future as part of offers, promotions and via other means. In addition to this, IGÇÖve just been speaking with our customer support team, and theyGÇÖve confirmed that as part of the reprimands issued against those whoGÇÖve been abusing Ghost Training, these ships, or the ISK that abusers of Ghost Training have received from the sales of them, will be confiscated as part of any reprimands that are issued. We recognize the fact that you guys are concerned about this, and wholly accept that this is on us. The intention is not at all to reward anyone for abuse of Ghost Training, and as such weGÇÖll make sure that any reprimands that are issued include removal of this stuff. Apologies for getting you guys all riled up. ItGÇÖs been a tough week, but weGÇÖll make sure that justice is served. In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this. Hope this helps assuage at least some of the concern.
This is wrong. Let people make isk by all means necessary !!!! If a person can make isk in the time that others need months, that person should not be punished, he/she should be congratulated !!!!! Does not matter how unfair it seems or is, this is EVE, where weaklings have no place! Let the crybabies cry, but don't become an EA game....Whoever is making a fortune now should be rewarded, not punished !!! |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3452
|
Posted - 2017.06.17 16:12:15 -
[152] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hey guys, A couple of clarifications here. I've also posted these elsewhere, but making sure they're also here for clarity Firstly as has been said before, these ships are going to become available more openly pretty soon (in the next few weeks or so) as part of in game rewards, and will be available in future as part of offers, promotions and via other means. In addition to this, IGÇÖve just been speaking with our customer support team, and theyGÇÖve confirmed that as part of the reprimands issued against those whoGÇÖve been abusing Ghost Training, these ships, or the ISK that abusers of Ghost Training have received from the sales of them, will be confiscated as part of any reprimands that are issued. We recognize the fact that you guys are concerned about this, and wholly accept that this is on us. The intention is not at all to reward anyone for abuse of Ghost Training, and as such weGÇÖll make sure that any reprimands that are issued include removal of this stuff. Apologies for getting you guys all riled up. ItGÇÖs been a tough week, but weGÇÖll make sure that justice is served. In addition to this, a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this. Hope this helps assuage at least some of the concern.
So, it has been over 48 hours since this post went up about " a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this."
Don't see any activity from said customer support guys. Precisely when are are these CCP employees going to answer questions? Has CCP frozen all transactions regarding these ships, to at least slow down the laggards from cashing out? The smart ones sold off within hours, and have already laundered their ISK through multiple transactions and players. Another smart play would be for CCP to remove ALL these ships, temporarily, from the game.
Has any of this been done?
|
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
43
|
Posted - 2017.06.17 16:17:58 -
[153] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So, it has been over 48 hours since this post went up about " a couple of our amazing customer support guys are going to come in and clarify your concerns with a few answers over what to expect in terms of how weGÇÖll be investigating this."
Don't see any activity from said customer support guys. Precisely when are are these CCP employees going to answer questions? Has CCP frozen all transactions regarding these ships, to at least slow down the laggards from cashing out? The smart ones sold off within hours, and have already laundered their ISK through multiple transactions and players. Another smart play would be for CCP to remove ALL these ships, temporarily, from the game.
Has any of this been done?
Nope.
But be careful discussing it on the forums. Apparently disagreeing with CCP is "discrimination" now. |
Gogela
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3456
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 06:19:31 -
[154] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Not quite.
Okay, so alpha account gets a free ship. Guy logs in and transfers it to his main, who then sells it. The main account is going to get dinged. Not the alpha account. CCP knows how to follow the money, this is how it works when people buy ISK illegally.
We will see. I'm just sayin'... it doesn't go down like you think. They don't trace snip.
Signatures should be used responsibly...
|
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
647
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 07:44:12 -
[155] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Not quite.
Okay, so alpha account gets a free ship. Guy logs in and transfers it to his main, who then sells it. The main account is going to get dinged. Not the alpha account. CCP knows how to follow the money, this is how it works when people buy ISK illegally.
We will see. I'm just sayin'... it doesn't go down like you think. They don't trace snip.
They can track everything, including snip, whatever snip is. Maybe ISD snipped your snip and made it snip.
|
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
43
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 08:10:25 -
[156] - Quote
"Following the money" sounds simple in a theoretical situation, but since CCP chose to take the weekend off rather than stanch the bleeding immediately, it's beyond repair. Every hour the impact ripples through to more characters and the lines blur further. And in a game where account creation costs nothing and is trivial (only need 1 email address), it will propagate through the playerbase faster than you can even query the logs.
I'm speaking from experience, the server is a living thing. This would have been a nightmare to stop if they had frozen the accounts and tried to reverse it the same day. Now imagine trying to do it a few thousand times while the clock is ticking and more trades are happening.
Most of the exploiters will have shuffled it all through a mess of alts who were on VPNs and obfuscated it with different transaction methods. People talk a good game on the forums where they want to sound innocent, but the behavior in the logs generally shows that exploiters and RMTers are lying $#1tcakes who knew what they were doing and went to great lengths to hide it.
And since these are people who just farmed billions of SP, even a negative wallet is meaningless. Who cares when you can just inject a new character and abandon the consequences.
This is permanently lodged in the economy, that ship has sailed. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3453
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 13:15:21 -
[157] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:"Following the money" sounds simple in a theoretical situation, but since CCP chose to take the weekend off rather than stanch the bleeding immediately, it's beyond repair. Every hour the impact ripples through to more characters and the lines blur further. And in a game where account creation costs nothing and is trivial (only need 1 email address), it will propagate through the playerbase faster than you can even query the logs.
I'm speaking from experience, the server is a living thing. This would have been a nightmare to stop if they had frozen the accounts and tried to reverse it the same day. Now imagine trying to do it a few thousand times while the clock is ticking and more trades are happening.
Most of the exploiters will have shuffled it all through a mess of alts who were on VPNs and obfuscated it with different transaction methods. People talk a good game on the forums where they want to sound innocent, but the behavior in the logs generally shows that exploiters and RMTers are lying $#1tcakes who knew what they were doing and went to great lengths to hide it.
And since these are people who just farmed billions of SP, even a negative wallet is meaningless. Who cares when you can just inject a new character and abandon the consequences.
This is permanently lodged in the economy, that ship has sailed.
Bingo.
But they did not take the weekend off. I believe a number of them did appearances on the 72 hour Eveathon. While this is a great idea for a charity, CCP could have donated $15,000 (believe the goal was to raise 12,000), then had those people who would have appeared instead working the weekend burning another $15,000 in overtime to tackle this and ghost training.
But hey, priorities...... |
Gogela
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3456
|
Posted - 2017.06.18 16:28:00 -
[158] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:Gogela wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Not quite.
Okay, so alpha account gets a free ship. Guy logs in and transfers it to his main, who then sells it. The main account is going to get dinged. Not the alpha account. CCP knows how to follow the money, this is how it works when people buy ISK illegally.
We will see. I'm just sayin'... it doesn't go down like you think. They don't trace snip. They can track everything, including snip, whatever snip is. Maybe ISD snipped your snip and made it snip. They can do this technically. They cannot do this practically. It would take thousands of man hours to really look into this and figure out where everything went. With every day that passes, you can add another few hundred hours to the tracking as the velocity of the economy complicates things further. At this point too much time has passed. CCP wants to find a solution that can be scripted and applied all at once (not really possible in this context, I think) like any software company with thousands of clients would want to do. They don't have the resources (to my knowledge) to research every fanfest attendees 50+ alpha accounts. I mean... just look at the scope of the problem and try to put yourself in their shoes. Say you are CCP Falcon. What are your marching orders for those who would have to fix this? This question is open to anyone. I, for one, have nothing.
Signatures should be used responsibly...
|
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1757
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 09:39:29 -
[159] - Quote
Quote:12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster. I have removed a couple posts and those quoting them.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
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CCP Falcon
13802
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 13:12:48 -
[160] - Quote
I've spoken further with our customer support team, and they'll be looking at this thread today.
In addition to this, here's some updated news regarding the ships.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Voddick
AFK
95
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 14:22:42 -
[161] - Quote
Nicely Done.
Also, thanks for fixing & addressing ghost training. There is no point in playing a game with crippling bugs/exploits; RL already has enough of that, which is why we come here. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
583
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 14:30:35 -
[162] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted. So no problem then. The guilty parties sell off all the toys to their alt's, then transfer the cash from these sales to other alt's or buy assets. And they get off scot free. You can't truly believe that if someone who has set up a sophisticated system of farming alts (because the same people that profit from this the most are the same ones ghost training) does not have an equally sophisticated system of moving the cash. No, CCP can follow the money on these things. So: Exploiter A sells to B. B keeps the ship, CCP drains the ISK out of exploiter A's wallet. Exploiter A transfers the ISK to Alt C? C's wallet is drained. This is what CCP does when people buy ISK illegally. They drain the wallet of the person who bought the ISK. If that person buys stuff they do not drain the wallet's of those players, just the guy who broke the EULA which is how people get negative ISK balances. And like I posted before, what happens when exploiter A sells the ship to B, then buys assets from those proceeds from player C, who is innocent? Who, precisely, does CCP take the ISK from, especially if Player B has lost the ship, and Player C has in turn bought assets from players D, E, and F with the cash he got from player A?
This is all irrelevant, since CCP can follow the money. If one guy gets a zillion ships thanks to this exploit and then sells them, that's basically him doing something good for the zillion people who will now have those ships. He, as the guilty party, will just see all that money being drained from his wallet, since CCP very easily could just look up what he was doing. Everyone in your example except the guilty party is just unnecessary obfuscation.
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3455
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 16:36:43 -
[163] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted. So no problem then. The guilty parties sell off all the toys to their alt's, then transfer the cash from these sales to other alt's or buy assets. And they get off scot free. You can't truly believe that if someone who has set up a sophisticated system of farming alts (because the same people that profit from this the most are the same ones ghost training) does not have an equally sophisticated system of moving the cash. No, CCP can follow the money on these things. So: Exploiter A sells to B. B keeps the ship, CCP drains the ISK out of exploiter A's wallet. Exploiter A transfers the ISK to Alt C? C's wallet is drained. This is what CCP does when people buy ISK illegally. They drain the wallet of the person who bought the ISK. If that person buys stuff they do not drain the wallet's of those players, just the guy who broke the EULA which is how people get negative ISK balances. And like I posted before, what happens when exploiter A sells the ship to B, then buys assets from those proceeds from player C, who is innocent? Who, precisely, does CCP take the ISK from, especially if Player B has lost the ship, and Player C has in turn bought assets from players D, E, and F with the cash he got from player A? This is all irrelevant, since CCP can follow the money. If one guy gets a zillion ships thanks to this exploit and then sells them, that's basically him doing something good for the zillion people who will now have those ships. He, as the guilty party, will just see all that money being drained from his wallet, since CCP very easily could just look up what he was doing. Everyone in your example except the guilty party is just unnecessary obfuscation.
And, again, no, CCP can't follow the money. You are wrong. If the exploiter has already converted the ships into ISK, and then turn that ISK into assets, there is zero that CCP can do, unless they decide they will then wipe hard assets like ships, or a citadel, out of the game. And if the exploiter has already cleared out the alpha account, good luck following the cash. Thousands of alpha accounts, yeah right, CCP has the resources to do anything , particularly when the exploiters have a 4 or 5 day headstart.
I can just see it now: Some exploiter has taken the proceeds, and purchased a Keepstar, which he then sets up for a 100 player corp. CCP then wipes out that Keepstar because it was bought with tainted cash, and 99 innocent players get screwed with trapped assets, ruined jobs, etc.....yeah, that will go over well.
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Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 18:03:09 -
[164] - Quote
You still don't get it. You've acknowledged the ghost training bit, but the fact is nobody likes the idea that people are rewarded for the number of accounts linked to with email address. While the ghost training was just absurd beyond measure, that was the cause for concern.
It's a meaningless and arbitrary basis for multiplying a reward, since there is no cost to create the accounts apart from the time to make them. It also implements a stupid 'account creation arms race' metagame where all of your players must make thousands of accounts to remain on equal footing.
If you want to reward one account more than another, do it in a meaningful way, such as account age or total account time subscribed. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3253
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 18:10:27 -
[165] - Quote
Obviously they do get it, because the Marshall is not being distributed in the same way.
They made a mistake, but there's very little they could do about it now that wouldn't make things worse.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 18:18:02 -
[166] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:I've spoken further with our customer support team, and they'll be looking at this thread today.
Will support also be reviewing the deleted posts? Because with the way the rules are set up now, the most relevant parts of the discussion have been moderated into oblivion citing irrelevant rules against discussing prospective (not announced and confirmed) exploits.
You might not like what we have to say, but we say it because we care about and are invested in the future of the game.
When discussion is outlawed, only outlaws will discuss. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6689
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 18:36:48 -
[167] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:CCP doesn't have to go that far, that would be bananas. CCP can easily just drain accounts into the negative zone, no-one else except the guilty parties needs to be targeted. So no problem then. The guilty parties sell off all the toys to their alt's, then transfer the cash from these sales to other alt's or buy assets. And they get off scot free. You can't truly believe that if someone who has set up a sophisticated system of farming alts (because the same people that profit from this the most are the same ones ghost training) does not have an equally sophisticated system of moving the cash. No, CCP can follow the money on these things. So: Exploiter A sells to B. B keeps the ship, CCP drains the ISK out of exploiter A's wallet. Exploiter A transfers the ISK to Alt C? C's wallet is drained. This is what CCP does when people buy ISK illegally. They drain the wallet of the person who bought the ISK. If that person buys stuff they do not drain the wallet's of those players, just the guy who broke the EULA which is how people get negative ISK balances. And like I posted before, what happens when exploiter A sells the ship to B, then buys assets from those proceeds from player C, who is innocent? Who, precisely, does CCP take the ISK from, especially if Player B has lost the ship, and Player C has in turn bought assets from players D, E, and F with the cash he got from player A?
You drain the bad actors wallet. FFS, how hard is this to follow. Consider what you can do with a negative wallet balance. You cannot buy anything. You could maybe sell something like ore, but you probably won't be able to refine it. Your options become extremely limited when your wallet balance goes negative. You are completely over thinking this.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 18:42:27 -
[168] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:You drain the bad actors wallet. FFS, how hard is this to follow. Consider what you can do with a negative wallet balance. You cannot buy anything. You could maybe sell something like ore, but you probably won't be able to refine it. Your options become extremely limited when your wallet balance goes negative. You are completely over thinking this.
You're underthinking it, this was addressed yesterday.
Uthgaard wrote:And since these are people who just farmed billions of SP, even a negative wallet is meaningless. Who cares when you can just inject a new character and abandon the consequences.
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GM Lelouch
Game Masters C C P Alliance
112
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 19:09:48 -
[169] - Quote
Hey all, I humbly apologize for taking so long to reply to this thread.
I assure you we are very aware of your concerns and we fully understand your frustration with how the Concord ship giveaway was handled. Falcon posted an announcement today which gives a background for what happened, what went wrong and how we're improving processes to prevent this kind of problem in the future.
After reading this thread, I believe a lot of the outstanding questions are answered by the above news item but I'm going to expand a little bit on some of the specifics regarding our investigation.
Spc One wrote:Well i hope these ships become more accessible in the future, as someone got more than 200 of them now and sold them.
They certainly will become far more accessible than today. As Falcon outlined in his message in this thread, these ships will be accessible both through in-game means and promotions in the near future. The linked news item above goes into specifics on how these ships will be obtainable in-game.
Gogela wrote:I would bet some alt-alpha accounts will be 300 billion in the red. Those accounts will just get scrapped. I would be pretty surprised if any real ships or ISK were confiscated. -300 billion (or whatever) x however many alt-alpha accounts and the problem will be marked "fixed".
Our investigation into this is still ongoing so I there are things I can't go into right now, I can however make a few clarifications on this point:
- Our primary concern is ensuring anyone engaged in any kind of illegitimate activity (such as Ghost Training) doesn't keep the proceeds of this giveaway.
- We won't be putting a throwaway Alpha account into negative wallet status. In case of the ships already being sold, we will be tracking the ISK and taking action where it actually matters. We are following the money.
- We don't plan to confiscate ships which have been sold, we want to ensure no action is taken vs anyone who simply bought these ships in good faith.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:And, again, no, CCP can't follow the money. You are wrong. If the exploiter has already converted the ships into ISK, and then turn that ISK into assets, there is zero that CCP can do, unless they decide they will then wipe hard assets like ships, or a citadel, out of the game. And if the exploiter has already cleared out the alpha account, good luck following the cash. Thousands of alpha accounts, yeah right, CCP has the resources to do anything , particularly when the exploiters have a 4 or 5 day headstart.
I can just see it now: Some exploiter has taken the proceeds, and purchased a Keepstar, which he then sets up for a 100 player corp. CCP then wipes out that Keepstar because it was bought with tainted cash, and 99 innocent players get screwed with trapped assets, ruined jobs, etc.....yeah, that will go over well.
You're absolutely correct that this kind of investigation can be very difficult and time consuming. I can tell from reading all of your comments (not just the quoted one) that you have a pretty good grasp on the level of complexity involved; you managed to describe many of the challenges we face when performing these kinds of investigations in a pretty accurate way.
It however isn't a black and white case of "it can / cannot be done". We are committed to doing everything in our power to set things right without affecting unrelated/innocent players. It very well may be the case that we will never be able to fix 100% of the damage done but that doesn't mean we have to settle for 0%.
To expand on the above, given 100 manhours we might be able to fix 70% of the damage. The next 20% might take another 100 manhours. At some point we might even have to pack up our things and call it a day because the last 5-10% would take a prohibitive amount of time. All of these numbers are of course arbitrary for the sake of this example only, but I hope that makes sense!
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: CCP will never, ever tell us the results of this latest screw-up, because we all realize that every minute this goes on, the more impossible it will be to follow the money and roll back transactions. It is no surprise that CCP is begging people to turn themselves in, because CCP simply doesn't have the people to catch and punish all involved.
I unfortunately cannot promise we'll be able to do so, but I know I speak for both Falcon and I in saying that we'd love to talk about the results when everything has settled. I'll see what we can do in this regard.
We often encourage people to turn themselves in if they've knowingly and intentionally abused an exploit, this is not a new thing. Why do we do this? On one hand it can save us a lot of time. On the other hand it gives the player involved an out.
As far as we see it, there is a difference between a person who comes forward and a person who tries to get away with it and this is also reflected in punitive action taken as a result. We don't want to issue permanent bans if it can be avoided so it's really in both our and the involved players' interest that they take this out.
I hope you all found some of this to be informative. I'll be popping in here again sometime in the next few days in case there are followup questions.
Best regards,
Lead GM Lelouch
CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514
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Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 19:15:14 -
[170] - Quote
GM Lelouch wrote:
- We won't be putting a throwaway Alpha account into negative wallet status. In case of the ships already being sold, we will be tracking the ISK and taking action where it actually matters. We are following the money.
If you do use negative wallet as a punitive action, how are you going to ensure that it isn't dodged with skill extractors & injectors?
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Gogela
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3459
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 19:18:42 -
[171] - Quote
GM Lelouch wrote:Gogela wrote:I would bet some alt-alpha accounts will be 300 billion in the red. Those accounts will just get scrapped. I would be pretty surprised if any real ships or ISK were confiscated. -300 billion (or whatever) x however many alt-alpha accounts and the problem will be marked "fixed". Our investigation into this is still ongoing so I there are things I can't go into right now, I can however make a few clarifications on this point:
- Our primary concern is ensuring anyone engaged in any kind of illegitimate activity (such as Ghost Training) doesn't keep the proceeds of this giveaway.
- We won't be putting a throwaway Alpha account into negative wallet status. In case of the ships already being sold, we will be tracking the ISK and taking action where it actually matters. We are following the money.
- We don't plan to confiscate ships which have been sold, we want to ensure no action is taken vs anyone who simply bought these ships in good faith.
This sounds pretty reasonable. I still have no idea how you are going to track all of that... but if you can, great.
Signatures should be used responsibly...
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6690
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 19:32:19 -
[172] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:You drain the bad actors wallet. FFS, how hard is this to follow. Consider what you can do with a negative wallet balance. You cannot buy anything. You could maybe sell something like ore, but you probably won't be able to refine it. Your options become extremely limited when your wallet balance goes negative. You are completely over thinking this. You're underthinking it, this was addressed yesterday. Uthgaard wrote:And since these are people who just farmed billions of SP, even a negative wallet is meaningless. Who cares when you can just inject a new character and abandon the consequences.
What billions? From the sales of these ships, that is precisely the ISK they'll be draining.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6690
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 19:33:08 -
[173] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:GM Lelouch wrote:
- We won't be putting a throwaway Alpha account into negative wallet status. In case of the ships already being sold, we will be tracking the ISK and taking action where it actually matters. We are following the money.
If you do use negative wallet as a punitive action, how are you going to ensure that it isn't dodged with skill extractors & injectors?
Explain how this would work.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 19:57:22 -
[174] - Quote
How about you learn to use google instead? I'm not your personal tutor.
And what's with block quoting the exact same page-long block quote twice in a row to say two sentences?
All you're doing is spamming away away relevant discussion. TF out of here with that. The GMs are speaking. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
272
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 20:01:37 -
[175] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:GM Lelouch wrote:
- We won't be putting a throwaway Alpha account into negative wallet status. In case of the ships already being sold, we will be tracking the ISK and taking action where it actually matters. We are following the money.
If you do use negative wallet as a punitive action, how are you going to ensure that it isn't dodged with skill extractors & injectors?
People with a negative ISK balance can't use the market, they would therefore need to manually trade person to person for every extractor used, by the time they clean out all the useful SP they will have paid for the negative balance, or if purchased through the NES they will have paid a small fortune to CCP :P
CCP win either way |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 20:06:37 -
[176] - Quote
Okay since some of you are having trouble connecting the dots, I'm gonna break this down barney style.
The issue is
Concord Ships
... on ...
Ghost Trainers
Ghost trainers already have lots of skill injectors
Ghost trainers also have plenty of accounts
That's why they got all of the Concord ships!
And they can use any of these accounts
To interact with the market!
So if they get a negative wallet
They can simply extract the character
to inject a new one!
And in most cases, already have enough injectors
To inject a new one without ever needing to touch the affected account! |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3455
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 20:14:28 -
[177] - Quote
GM Lelouch wrote:Lot's of things
I await your update. One question: Does CCP have the capability to "freeze" transaction on a particular item, or is CCP's only option the nuclear one of removing the item from the game?
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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1180
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 20:22:16 -
[178] - Quote
NVM mis the gm chat |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4051
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 21:17:16 -
[179] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Okay since some of you are having trouble connecting the dots, I'm gonna break this down barney style. The issue is Concord Ships... on ... Ghost Trainers You mean the Ghost training that they will also be getting punished for ON TOP of the Concord ships. Anyone found to have knowingly exploited ghost training (which is pretty obvious if you en mass logged them in again to extract) isn't going to be making profits off that ghost training already. So the problem you are talking about is irrelevant & non existent. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 22:24:30 -
[180] - Quote
I'm not talking about a nonexistent problem.
I'm explaining the fundamentals to the people spamming off the relevant discussion by commenting without first taking the time to read the thread or understand the issues.
In other words: what I'm doing right now, with you.
We have 3 pages of text since the GM response, for a total of two sentences which actually advance the discussion. |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4051
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 23:09:10 -
[181] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:I'm not talking about a nonexistent problem. Yes you are. Because the problem you are talking about is already fixed by the punishment they will have/be received for Ghost training in the first place. You seem to be under the delusion that anyone who used the ghost training exploit is only getting the Concord ships/isk taken off them, which is not how CCP punish exploits. They take all the isk related in any way to the exploits. So all that stuff from the ghost training itself will be getting removed in some way.
What this means is the worry about people avoiding a negative isk wallet by using extractors and injectors is no different to anyone else currently since they won't have special resources to deal with it, and extractors and injectors carry with them their own penalty already. So there is no problem, because you fail to understand the situation yourself.
P.S. Stop digging your hole deeper here. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6691
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 23:39:42 -
[182] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Okay since some of you are having trouble connecting the dots, I'm gonna break this down barney style. The issue is Concord Ships... on ... Ghost TrainersGhost trainers already have lots of skill injectors Ghost trainers also have plenty of accounts That's why they got all of the Concord ships! And they can use any of these accounts To interact with the market! So if they get a negative walletThey can simply extract the character to inject a new one! And in most cases, already have enough injectors To inject a new one without ever needing to touch the affected account!
They. Can. Follow. The. Money. And. The. Skill. Injectors. And. The. Ships.
Now, somebody who say, runs it all through a myriad of 500 accounts with 500 emails. Yeah, he might get away (with some ill gotten gains) because CCP might just not want to devote that much time to such a person.
Stop being so butthurt over something a small fraction of players have done and may get away with. Most will be caught and have their accounts pillaged by CCP. If their wallet goes negative they have few options left for that account. Even buying a PLEX is unlikely to save them.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6691
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 23:40:29 -
[183] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Uthgaard wrote:Okay since some of you are having trouble connecting the dots, I'm gonna break this down barney style. The issue is Concord Ships... on ... Ghost Trainers You mean the Ghost training that they will also be getting punished for ON TOP of the Concord ships. Anyone found to have knowingly exploited ghost training (which is pretty obvious if you en mass logged them in again to extract) isn't going to be making profits off that ghost training already. So the problem you are talking about is irrelevant & non existent.
In the past this kind of thing has lead to pemabans.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Djsaeu
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 00:24:26 -
[184] - Quote
Not a problem, I just cancelled my subscription today. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 00:46:11 -
[185] - Quote
If you read the GM's response, you'd have noticed the part about how much time it takes to track everything.
And how how accurate we were about all of the difficulties with tracking it.
And how there is a finite amount of time they can spend on this.
Following the money is not a magical process where you push one button, know all and see all.
It's grueling work with spreadsheets that makes most EVE spreadsheets look simple. Everyone knew this was an exploit, and everyone knew this was coming. And I can assure you that, having actually tracked the flow of exploited assets in an MMO myself, more than once, that 90% if not all of the people taking advantage began with precautions to hide assets at the outset. And they are creative little *****.
Some hope to lose you by process of exhaustion, with trade after trade after trade, through numerous accounts, in numerous directions, using various exchange methods. This is an annoying deterrent at best, but it is very effective at wasting available man-hours.
The smartest ones try to make it impossible to identify their assets by creating reasonable doubt. By acquiring items from themselves on accounts that have no common identifying feature (VPN IP, separate email address, different physical computer or emulated virtual machine). Then by availing themselves of legitimate trade channels, they make the distinction between legitimate trades and asset hiding murky enough that even if you are pretty sure about it*, you can't proceed in good conscience with anything that will stand up to an appeal.
Seem extreme? It is, but it's also reality because anyone taking the time to set up 500+ accounts isn't doing it for the ISK. They're in it for the RMT, no doubt about it.
So yes, there is hiding of assets. If you'd read any of the thread prior to the GM response, you'd know that can explain all of this because I have tracked the flow of exploited assets in an MMO multiple times, and it sucks.
So, back to the matter at hand. I think it is worth the few minutes (for the staff, not the forum peanut gallery) to consider how they will make sure no one dodges their consequences, because it is not only possible, but likely.
* Pretty much every modern MMO scans the non-personal identifying features of your hardware, such as install path, computer user name, network name, and MAC address. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4053
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 00:52:46 -
[186] - Quote
And anyone who set 500+ accounts up and got 500+ ships, set them all up on the SAME email. If they didn't set them up on the same email and therefore far easier than your worst case scenario to track, they didn't get the ships. So yes, you are still going on about a problem that doesn't exist. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 01:01:51 -
[187] - Quote
I don't know whether you lack the sophistication to understand all of the information I provided, or are simply determined to argue about it. But the difference is moot, since the question is to the GM - not you.
You're not the first person to be ignorant on the internet, and you won't be the last. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4053
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 01:30:55 -
[188] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:I don't know whether you lack the sophistication to understand all of the information I provided, or are simply determined to argue about it. But the difference is moot, since the question is to the GM - not you.
You're not the first person to be ignorant on the internet, and you won't be the last. Oh, I understand all the information you provided. It's just irrelevant and doesn't mean what you think it does. |
Boniface Lemurne
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 03:23:05 -
[189] - Quote
What grinds my gears is that the proposed hull looks almost nothing like the Marshal advertised in the 'Updates' page. It's one of the most gorgeous hulls in the game that people have been waiting for almost a decade for. Please reconsider changing the hull of the battleship, or at least making it look more similar to the current Marshal. |
Thomas Lot
Astrocomical Warped Intentions
152
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 03:46:25 -
[190] - Quote
Trust is easily lost and not easily regained.
Within the last week, CCP Falcon and Quant through their asinine and inexcusable words, Hulls given was intentional, and1% of 1%, respectively, made the community acutely aware how out of touch they were, and still are, with the level of mistrust we now have with the developers ability to run the game fairly for all players. There has been no apology for their words, nor has there been an adequate explanation for why they made the statements in the first place.
Saying to the player base... "Don't worry, the ships will be available to you all very soon" is insulting.
We the honest players have long told the developers what the source of the problem is: Skill Injectors and Alpha Clones.
It is time to admit that the addition of both have caused more problems than CCP knows how to deal with. I will admit that I have bought some few skill injectors to train past the long train times of weeks to months at a time.
Nevertheless... convince me how CCP will prevent individual players from running more than one Alpha account and the removal of all ISK associated with the Concord Hull screw-up, and a report on how much ISK is removed, I hope it is in the Trillions.
Nothing less will ever do anything towards repairing the lost trust. |
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
2952
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 04:49:38 -
[191] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote: ...Justified dissatisfaction... You are completely correct.
The things done are outrageous and unacceptable!
I will probably leave the game over this and it sounds like you will also!
In the meantime...May I have your stuff, please?...temporarily, of course.
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6693
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 05:30:59 -
[192] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:And anyone who set 500+ accounts up and got 500+ ships, set them all up on the SAME email. If they didn't set them up on the same email and therefore far easier than your worst case scenario to track, they didn't get the ships. So yes, you are still going on about a problem that doesn't exist.
Yup. So to escape this via multiple accounts and multiple email and getting ships on all those accounts means...multiple fanfest ticket purchases.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6693
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 05:32:28 -
[193] - Quote
Djsaeu wrote:Not a problem, I just cancelled my subscription today.
Can I have your stuff.
Players these days are just a bunch of pansies, aren't they.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6693
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 05:44:55 -
[194] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:If you read the GM's response, you'd have noticed the part about how much time it takes to track everything.
And how how accurate we were about all of the difficulties with tracking it.
And how there is a finite amount of time they can spend on this.
Following the money is not a magical process where you push one button, know all and see all.
It's grueling work with spreadsheets that makes most EVE spreadsheets look simple. Everyone knew this was an exploit, and everyone knew this was coming. Having personally tracked the flow of exploited assets in an MMO myself (more than once) I can assure you that most exploiters began with precautions to hide their assets. And they are creative little *****.
Some hope to lose you by process of exhaustion, with trade after trade after trade, through numerous accounts, in numerous directions, using various exchange methods. This is an annoying deterrent at best, but it is very effective at wasting available man-hours.
The smartest ones create reasonable doubt to keep you from distinguishing their assets from other players'. They acquire items from themselves on accounts that have no common identifying feature (VPN IP, separate email address, different physical computer or emulated virtual machine). By doing this, they blur the distinction between legitimate trades and their own assets. Done correctly, the evidence becomes murky enough that even if you are pretty sure about it*, you can't proceed in good conscience, without the possibility of screwing over an innocent player.
Seem extreme? It is, but it's also reality because anyone taking the time to set up 500+ accounts isn't doing it for the ISK. They're in it for the RMT, no doubt about it.
So yes, there is hiding of assets. Back to the matter at hand. I think it is worth the few minutes (for the staff, not the forum peanut gallery) to consider how they will make sure no one dodges their consequences, because it is not only possible, but likely.
* Pretty much every modern MMO scans the non-personal identifying features of your hardware, such as install path, computer user name, network name, and MAC address.
Reasonable doubt...what is this a criminal court? CCP doesn't need reasonable doubt. They can nuke your account from orbit then delete all your plaintive emails.
And as noted those 500 accounts to get 500 ships have to have the exact same email. So then what? They are going to send them all to just one account. That sells them. Then what with the proceeds? Create more accounts with more emails, VPN, virtual machines and so forth? How many are going to do this do you think?
And yes, ya numpty, I did read the GM's response. About 100 man hours to get about 70% of the work done. Yes they are going to hit a point of diminishing returns and call it a day. But lets stop go over somethings....
The problem players had to do all of the following:
1. Set up and SP farm. 2. Use the alpha ghost training exploit. 3. Buy a Fanfest ticket. 4. All their accounts have to have the same email address...or they bought multiple tickets.
Now out of this subset of players how many did all of this with the intent of expoiting for both the ghost training and the ships--i.e. have taken those steps you outline above?
I am going to guess not many.
But please go on being ridiculously butthurt.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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brainless moron
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 09:25:49 -
[195] - Quote
On a lighter note, I just had a banana sandwich and it was awesome, banana sandwiches are the best sandwiches bro's =ƒæì |
Zirashi
Cyclical Destruction
74
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 10:00:23 -
[196] - Quote
brainless moron wrote:On a lighter note, I just had a banana sandwich and it was awesome, banana sandwiches are the best sandwiches bro's =ƒæì Name checks out.
I mean who does that. Putting banana on a sandwich; what are we, animals? |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
583
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 10:31:52 -
[197] - Quote
Boniface Lemurne wrote:What grinds my gears is that the proposed hull looks almost nothing like the Marshal advertised in the 'Updates' page. It's one of the most gorgeous hulls in the game that people have been waiting for almost a decade for. Please reconsider changing the hull of the battleship, or at least making it look more similar to the current Marshal.
I have to disagree, while the old hull wasn't bad, it didn't do anything for me, either. The new one looks sweet, though. Here's to hoping any additional changes make it look even better, instead of worse. |
Djsaeu
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 16:43:18 -
[198] - Quote
Not giving anything away, to just give things away means that I am only taking a break. This place has reminded me to much of real world politics. I am seeing similar things as in a election process, promise this and get something else. I come here to get away from the real world not to be reminded of it at every turn.
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6706
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 16:48:26 -
[199] - Quote
Djsaeu wrote:Not giving anything away, to just give things away means that I am only taking a break. This place has reminded me to much of real world politics. I am seeing similar things as in a election process, promise this and get something else. I come here to get away from the real world not to be reminded of it at every turn.
You are assuming I'll give it back. Gimme your stuff, I'll sell it, refine it, or use it. If you come back? Who are you again?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3470
|
Posted - 2017.06.27 14:20:46 -
[200] - Quote
So any updates from CCP? The clock is ticking. This forum is toast in what, 3 weeks?
More and more it looks like CCP will simply hope that peoples' memory of this fades, and this thread in an archive. Remember folks, CCP has a long history of backing way off on work being done, as so many dev's take their summer holidays.
Not that I blame them leaving. Unless you like salmon fishing, and hiking to see stunning vistas of fire juxtaposed against ice, not a lot to do in a country with the population the size of a medium sized city. |
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
665
|
Posted - 2017.06.27 15:07:55 -
[201] - Quote
Zirashi wrote:brainless moron wrote:On a lighter note, I just had a banana sandwich and it was awesome, banana sandwiches are the best sandwiches bro's =ƒæì Name checks out. I mean who does that. Putting banana on a sandwich; what are we, animals?
When I was young I liked my peanut butter and ketchup sandwiches. I even tried it on pancakes, but that was a disaster.
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Maxi dela Tierra
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.27 17:23:56 -
[202] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:I think I am legitimately done with the game. Why bother playing the game and making isk when you can pull stuff like this and make so much more?
Yeah and i am done with my job. why bother to work and my boss makes so much more money by cheating and ripping of the customers?
Heck, i am even done with life. why not just kill myself? I am a honest hardworking guy who tries to make a humble living and so many others just got everything stuffed into their asses by their rich, shady parents. |
Kixx
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2017.06.28 10:16:19 -
[203] - Quote
I see many of these problems tied to the fact of the ghost training exploit that many people had claimed they reported weeks ago but CCP seemed to care less and say nothing about.
Ghost training was talked about so casually it had posts on youtube telling everyone how to do it and included was the fact it was reported and nothing was said back about it, giving the average player an opinion it was ok.
I don't see how you can treat an exploit so casually then turn on a dime in 1 day because it finally did something extremely harmful.
It WAS reported, they did nothing, and there should be consequences for those who did nothing. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6735
|
Posted - 2017.06.28 14:37:13 -
[204] - Quote
Kixx wrote:I see many of these problems tied to the fact of the ghost training exploit that many people had claimed they reported weeks ago but CCP seemed to care less and say nothing about.
Ghost training was talked about so casually it had posts on youtube telling everyone how to do it and included was the fact it was reported and nothing was said back about it, giving the average player an opinion it was ok.
I don't see how you can treat an exploit so casually then turn on a dime in 1 day because it finally did something extremely harmful.
It WAS reported, they did nothing, and there should be consequences for those who did nothing.
Ghost training used to be a thing before Alphas, skill injectors and the like. You'd let your sub expire with a long skill and when you re-subbed you'd get the SP. It was like this for years. CCP then came out and said, "Nope, that is over." So irrespective of CCP's response now this was what can be called a "known exploit". That is people are taking advantage of something that CCP took out of the game. To be quite honest the most egregious exploiters should consider themselves luck if all CCP does is take away their ill-gotten gains. Being permanently banned is the typical response.
As for the harm, I'm not sure I see what you are getting at? What harm? The CONCORD ships? Meh...so they sold a bunch. If they were ghost training they'll have that ISK confiscated and even if not what is the actual harm? Was there too much ISK injected into the game? No. Were the players buying said CONCORD ships harmed? No. Did the presence of these ships harm the game? No. Maybe you can hang your hat on some sort of income inequality argument, but even there it may not be much more than another "meh" given the vast wealth many players have legitimately acquired. The biggest harm I can see is what might be called "optics" that this looks bad. But CCP has already stated they are going to rectify this problem by confiscating any and all gains made from ghost training accounts.*
*Hopefully only those that tried to benefit from ghost training--i.e. a player who let a sub expire and got the extra SP but did not extract and sell them probably should not be punished.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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greasy toad
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.28 15:07:02 -
[205] - Quote
I'm not seeing how any of this is CCP'S fault.
This is all down to you lot..the remaining players.
If I put my car in for a service, and i don't get what I've asked for i have 2 choices, i can go back and complain or I can go to another garage.
Not in Eve. CCP are not interested in any of your complaints because they know that you'll keep coming back for more. There is no reason for them to improve their service because most of you can't leave.
Try some other games and you will find out what OMPE means :)
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Commander Spurty
1685
|
Posted - 2017.06.29 10:42:16 -
[206] - Quote
More ships than buyers tbh
There are good ships,
And wood ships,
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are Spaceships
Built by CCP
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