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Vallerie Rosal
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Posted - 2007.05.18 09:35:00 -
[1]
Ive been catching a lot of random bits of chatter about a upcoming passive shield tanking nerf? can anyone confirm or deny this? or is it just a rumor?
the reason why I ask is because I was gonna spend the next few weeks topping off my passive shield tanking skills, was just wondering if I should look for other options.
thanks
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Nyana
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Posted - 2007.05.18 09:39:00 -
[2]
Base recharge rate for BCs has been changed from 1250s to 1400s on the test server.
I tried it out.
Shield management 4, shield operation 4, no skills to use T2 shield stuff, no implants.
3x Large F-S9 shield extender
1x Medium F-S9 shield extender
1x 50% EM hardener
1x Invul I
4x Shield Rec II
3x Purger rigs
I could tank sentry guns 24/7 with my shield at 59-63%.
Not much of a nerf, add some skills and better modules and the tank is still uber.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2007.05.18 09:43:00 -
[3]
What he said. Mind you tho, this is just the first trial version of rev 2.0 on sisi atm.. don't forget how the tier 2 BC were changed 7 times in 2 weeks before they were released..
Then again they won't change for weeks, maybe even months on TQ yet, so keep using that glorious pve tactic now people :)
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me..
Drone guide.. |
Vallerie Rosal
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Posted - 2007.05.18 10:08:00 -
[4]
so the said passive tank nerf isnt going to hit until the release of revelations 2?
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Murtific
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.05.18 10:08:00 -
[5]
The point is for a BC to not be able to tank a BS.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 10:12:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Murtific
The point is for a BC to not be able to tank a BS.
And why shouldnt it? Its not like it can kill it lol.
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turnschuh
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.18 10:15:00 -
[7]
with heat passive tanks will be past anyway, only active modules can be overloaded but all of them.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 10:26:00 -
[8]
Edited by: n0thing on 18/05/2007 10:27:29
Its not a nerf, just now you need better skills to tank better passive, same as for active tanking.
Btw, passive tanks still stay after heat feature, as heat needs some tradeoff, while passive tanks wont lower anything.
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turnschuh
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.18 10:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: n0thing
Edited by: n0thing on 18/05/2007 10:27:29
Btw, passive tanks still stay after heat feature, as heat needs some tradeoff, while passive tanks wont lower anything.
wrong, heat doesnt need tradeoff. since every slot category has its own heat indicator and they are not related to each other. There is no penalty whatsoever when overloading a module, unless you go to far of course.
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.18 11:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Murtific
The point is for a BC to not be able to tank a BS.
And why shouldnt it? Its not like it can kill it lol.
Yeah, Myrmidons can't kill BSes.
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Azuse
The Brotherhood Of The Blade
The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.05.18 11:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Murtific
The point is for a BC to not be able to tank a BS.
Lmao. BU have always been able to tank bs and kill them, always. The whole point of any BC is that it's an uber tank (the drake is ott, its tank never runs out) with beter than cruiser dps but very few ppl saw them do this pre-evelations since 3 of the 4 bc were ranged ships, only the brutix could tank and kill ratters well.
All the newbc are aimed at close range with stronger tanks (cane + raven = dead raven) and more dammage so you're going to see it more, as for the drake. 
Sis stats changed daily before kail was released.
Passive drake regen is the equivelant f running 2 lrg tii boosters 24/7, give an another bc that can run 2 reps 24/7 and you wont hear another bad thing about a drake
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 11:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Namingway
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Murtific
The point is for a BC to not be able to tank a BS.
And why shouldnt it? Its not like it can kill it lol.
Yeah, Myrmidons can't kill BSes.
I was referring to passive tanked drakes.
However, imo its myrms that need a nerf, purely for being able to field a passive tank as good as a drake, with BS-style damage.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 11:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Namingway
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Murtific
The point is for a BC to not be able to tank a BS.
And why shouldnt it? Its not like it can kill it lol.
Yeah, Myrmidons can't kill BSes.
I was referring to passive tanked drakes.
However, imo its myrms that need a nerf, purely for being able to field a passive tank as good as a drake, with BS-style damage.
Exactly, but its not the ship that leads to it, its the passive tanking technique that leads to it.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 11:48:00 -
[14]
hmm well actually it is the ship - Passive setups tend to only be popular primarily on caldari ships - And thus the missiles they fire do little damage (take a ferox/drake for example). However, ships like the domi or myrm (soz gallente folks) can have full damage with drones, and arent penalized.
Lets face it - a passive tanked drake isnt the scariest ship. Nor the most powerful. Its tank is damn good - but its damage is lacking. Yet a myrm can hold a similar tank, with drones.
I personally think all non-shield ships should have a nerf to their recharge times - cos lets face it.....who needs it?
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:17:00 -
[15]
/Warning heavy role-play post.
Yes itÆs true I am withdrawing the use of my passive shield tank algorithms on Battlecruisers due to licence problems with the empires and slower algorithms are being sent out via the hypernet as patchÆs to you ships AI.
See http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=520425 for more.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:36:00 -
[16]
I dont think its going to be much of an issue once we can target specific modules on a ship (prety sure they said that was going to come in with heat and overloading).
Passive shield tanked ships dont have very good DPS, yeah you kill them slowly but they also kill you very slowly. If we can target and take out their modules that are running the passive tank then there shouldnt be much of a problem.
Right now the problem is since you cant NOS then down to kill their regen if you cant overcome it with flat DPS you will never destroy them (and they can regen ALOT). Targeting specific modules would provide an option where there was none, I'm not sure how big of a difference it will make but its something.
-------------------------------
C.D's Formula for success
-------------------------------
Credit Card = Game Time Card
Gametime Card = ISK
Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:36:00 -
[17]
Edited by: n0thing on 18/05/2007 14:36:51
Originally by: Waxau
hmm well actually it is the ship - Passive setups tend to only be popular primarily on caldari ships - And thus the missiles they fire do little damage (take a ferox/drake for example). However, ships like the domi or myrm (soz gallente folks) can have full damage with drones, and arent penalized.
Lets face it - a passive tanked drake isnt the scariest ship. Nor the most powerful. Its tank is damn good - but its damage is lacking. Yet a myrm can hold a similar tank, with drones.
I personally think all non-shield ships should have a nerf to their recharge times - cos lets face it.....who needs it?
Well, Im not good with passive tanking, but, the amount of lows is what differs Myrmi from Drake. Means right now the ship with 6 meds 6 lows passive tanks better then 7 meds 5 lows as I see it. It just needs to be changed so main passive tank power will lay on mid slots.
Btw, never seen module targeting being mentioned both with overloading mods. Since, imo, that would birng back WCS strategy. Your first target in any fight will be warp disruptor of enemy ship. Once its down, you can have fun engaging it as much as you want knowing he will never kill you.
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Mike Atropos
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:58:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Btw, never seen module targeting being mentioned both with overloading mods. Since, imo, that would birng back WCS strategy. Your first target in any fight will be warp disruptor of enemy ship. Once its down, you can have fun engaging it as much as you want knowing he will never kill you.
How would that be bad? If anything, that would allow longer range combat without the need for tacklers. Sniping the warpcomputer of the ship with a Rokh 150km out would make it a viable solo ship.
Of course, destroying the ability to warp would be the same as destroying the ship if its away from a repair station, so I imagine target ship-critical functions would only temporarily disable their use, while player-added fittings could be destroyed.
And talk about your major derails.
BC's are getting a slight increase in shield tanking times. From the current look of them, it will be a minor increase, and most Drake tanks will not be significantly reduced.
Also, Gallente ships can passive tank, yea. But its only a viable PVE setup. Nobody Passive Tanks a myrm in PVP 'cause you throw away a ship bonus and all your mids and lows for a tank not significantly better than an injected dual-rep. Drakes can get away with it on gate camps cause they don't run cap-weapons or drones. A myrm's blasters would seriously impact your cap, and the sentries could easily pull a "lol, we shoot drone now kthnx".
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AnKahn
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:04:00 -
[19]
Two questions.
1.Which BC can kill which BS? (Go ahead and brag guys.)
2.Which BS can't break the tank of which BC, even if you have all day to do so? (Go ahead and whine a little guys)
Thanks really. I'm making a spread sheet to whip out during combat so I know when to run away.
I approved this message.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:06:00 -
[20]
ôIt just needs to be changed so main passive tank power will lay on mid slots.ö
What! Why? Passive tanks have always been about the low slots its only recently that they started using mid slots more but even now low slots mean more.
Extendesr need to be changed so we can go back to shield recharge not hitpoints being the main point of passive tanks.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôIt just needs to be changed so main passive tank power will lay on mid slots.ö
What! Why? Passive tanks have always been about the low slots its only recently that they started using mid slots more but even now low slots mean more.
Extendesr need to be changed so we can go back to shield recharge not hitpoints being the main point of passive tanks.
Yes, but with that, ships that are meant to have armor tank shouldnt shield tank better then shield tankers
Ofc, its great that you can actually take any ship and make it do anything, but that anything shouldnt be better then specialized ship does.
Originally by: Mike Atropos
Stuff
Well, first of all, I havent derailed anything, since my addition to post that was made on topic was reflected from the above post about the module shooting. Still that would bring some new good things but also quite alot of bad things, involving EW+shooting your mods = you die to a frig.
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Badhands
Gallente
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: n0thing
Yes, but with that, ships that are meant to have armor tank shouldnt shield tank better then shield tankers
Ofc, its great that you can actually take any ship and make it do anything, but that anything shouldnt be better then specialized ship does.
Gallente are the original passive shield tankers.
.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.05.18 18:06:00 -
[23]
ôOfc, its great that you can actually take any ship and make it do anything, but that anything shouldnt be better then specialized ship does.ö
Well I would argue the Gallente ships are specialized for passive tanking hence the high amount of low slots. Caldari donÆt have low slots so are not specialized towards it.
Well thatÆs only half true. Go back 3 or 4 years and it was Gallente had the high HP regen passive shield tanks. Caldari had the high hitpoint but low regen passive tanks.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Waxau
Amarr
Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.05.18 19:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Badhands
Originally by: n0thing
Yes, but with that, ships that are meant to have armor tank shouldnt shield tank better then shield tankers
Ofc, its great that you can actually take any ship and make it do anything, but that anything shouldnt be better then specialized ship does.
Gallente are the original passive shield tankers.
And Kestrels were the original stealth bombers. Whats your point?
Is a domi / myrm meant to shield tank? No. Much like a drake isnt meant to armor tank.
So seeing as how a myrm can tank as well as a drake with shields....why shouldnt the drake armor tank as well.
Oh wait - no.....that would be OVERPOWERED!
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Fluffernator
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Posted - 2007.05.18 19:15:00 -
[25]
not suprising pottsy doesnt want the caldari to be able to passive tank... Makes them much hardter to kill with a gallente gank ship. Pottsey, gallente are not specialized shield tankers, don't push them as such... their specialty is the HIGHEST dps ships in the game, and also fairly quick ships. They are also very strong ARMOR tankers.... the game might have origanlly favored gallente as passive shield tankers, but once upon a day caldari ships were fast, you could load cruise into a kestrel, and ecm was effective. Please in the name of balance stop this nonsense before everyone trains freakin gallente.
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C Spawn
Abyss Restless
Proper Response
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Posted - 2007.05.18 20:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Azuse
Passive drake regen is the equivelant f running 2 lrg tii boosters 24/7, give an another bc that can run 2 reps 24/7 and you wont hear another bad thing about a drake
ROFL.
Trial-repping Mydon - didn't u heard 'bout it?
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Daedaelus
Caldari
Xtreme Intruders
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Posted - 2007.05.18 20:14:00 -
[27]
Passive tanks spoiled people now you will have to active tank in a bc who cares you had to do this back with the old pvp ferox back in the day. Besides its better to active tank a BS anyway due to your sig radius.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.05.18 21:38:00 -
[28]
ôIs a domi / myrm meant to shield tank?ö
The domi could shield tank long before it could amour tank so yes I would say its a shield tank ship. ItÆs a dual tank ship that can do both. Yes a Myrm is meant to shield tank. Read the background Gallante are not a pure amour tanking race. They favour amour tanking but itÆs not all they do.
ôPottsey, gallente are not specialized shield tankers, don't push them as such... their specialty is the HIGHEST dps ships in the game, and also fairly quick ships.ö
Gallente spent 4 years being specialized passive shield tankers. I am not trying to push them as that. Its what they are youÆre the one saying strip them of what they have always had for no good reason.
ôPlease in the name of balance stop this nonsense before everyone trains freakin gallente.ö
So itÆs ok to strip Gallante down to 1 tanking method while giving Caldari 3 tanking methods? Yet you talk about balance! If Gallente only need 1 tanking method than why do Caldari need 3?
We should go back to the old days Gallente where passive shield HP regen tankers and amour tankers while Caldari where active and hitpoint passive tankers. Now that was balanced as both raceÆs had two tanking methods.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.05.18 21:53:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Pottsey on 18/05/2007 21:52:02
ôHow do caldari have 3 types of tanking? We have passive ships which do no dps, and we have actives which do mediocre damage, and mediocre tank.ö
I have seen a lot of amour tanked Ravens and scorps with EW in the mid slots. Not as common as active shield tanks but it happens. Why should gallante lose shiled tanking it against the storyline and doesnÆt make sense.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.05.18 21:56:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Pottsey on 18/05/2007 21:54:53
ôNow lets just take the myrm. It can do BS damage, it can field as good a passive tank as a drake, and the best armor tank of all the tier 2 BC. Balance?ö
So one broken Gallante ship means all Gallante ships have to suffer and lose passive shield tanking? As I said before for over 3 years Gallante has better passive shield tanks then Caldari so why is it wrong there new line of ships the myrm keeps this tradition?
Perhaps the Myrm does need a nerf but it doesnt mean the rest of Gallante ships need nerfing.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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