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Bumping - isn't this an exploit?

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Zee Zen	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:43:00 - [1] Does it really make sense that a shuttle can bump a much larger ship and prevent it from aligning for warp? If CCP is fixing web-warping, shouldn't physics-defying bumping also be fixed to keep things balanced? A much smaller ship should have very little effect on a larger ships velocity. I realize this would change inty's usefulness, but the change would make sense, right?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:46:00 - [2] I agree that bumping should not be possible with tiny ships; a Titan should not be able to get stuck on a shuttle. If someone wants to bump, they should have to use a ship of similar size to the one they're bumping, or at least within an order of magnitude (cruiser hitting BS, etc). --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:48:00 - [3] Bumping is not exploit. I got an answer to a petition that it is a normal game mechanic. So next time you get bumped off station/gate or out of lockrange when dampened, you cannot complain. Actualy it is easy to implement it correctly with ship damage and all, but who cares ? The DEVs do certainly not. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:49:00 - [4] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 18/05/2007 13:51:02 Yes, it would make lots of sense. Just put a mass relation in there to see which ship moves by which fraction of the distance needed to seperat the objects. Oh, and some less erratic swinging and turning of large ships, like battleships, while 'disentangling' would also work wonders on immersion and looks. How about just moving large ships sideways to reduce it? Everything bigger than a battlecruiser should have an absolutely fixed turning rate, to simulate and depict inertia, mass and size. _________________________________ - People are people wherever you go -
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:52:00 - [5] Don't give up, we're just a few hundred threads from bothering the devs into some coding. Also Known As
Yblarbo Janks Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:53:00 - [6] If there's one thing Janks has learned, it's size doesn't matter. Remember that movie about the Wars going on in the Stars, and all it took was a tiny fighter to shoot a single shot down an exhaust port to kablominaize a Star of Deathination? I shot a man in Mara, just to watch him Die.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:53:00 - [7] i'm 100% positive it was an exploit. however it seems it's no longer the case ------
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:54:00 - [8] Originally by: Yblarbo Janks If there's one thing Janks has learned, it's size doesn't matter. Remember that movie about the Wars going on in the Stars, and all it took was a tiny fighter to shoot a single shot down an exhaust port to kablominaize a Star of Deathination? But.. that huge Star of Deathination didn't bounce all about the screen.. _________________________________ - People are people wherever you go -
Saori Rei Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:55:00 - [9] Bumping stops that irritating carrier station campers. I hope it -isn't- an exploit though from a purely realistic point of view a shuttle shouldnt be able to even budge a titan.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Bumping is not exploit. True. When someone asked a Dev awhile ago just how they imagined a Titan ever getting killed via normal game mechanics (i.e. no metagaming) a very large part of the Dev's answer was bumping the hell out of the Titan. So, far from being an exploit it seems the Devs view it as an integral part of combat mechanics within EVE. That said yes, there really needs to be some rhyme and reason to ship mass when a bump occurs. Technically running your ski boat into an aircraft carrier would bump the carrier a smidge but I doubt it would be noticeable and it is your ski boat that will do the vast majority of the moving.
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:56:00 - [11] There's no gravity in space.Therefore a shuttle weighs as much as a Titan.I suppose?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:58:00 - [12] Originally by: Susan Acid There's no gravity in space.Therefore a shuttle weighs as much as a Titan.I suppose? WTS: Physics 101 Inertia depends solely on mass, not weight. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:06:00 - [13] I can tell you right now if they had real life concepts involving this ramming would do near fatal damage to the target ship and any BC or higher with a microwarp would be able to take out a cap ship. I dont like the current system. BUT i wouldnt want the alternative not in a thousand years.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:08:00 - [14] Edited by: Splagada on 18/05/2007 14:06:12 Originally by: Susan Acid There's no gravity in space.Therefore a shuttle weighs as much as a Titan.I suppose? based on that, jumping like a madman would push the earth quite fast out of its orbit :p and i dont tell you about a cannon shooting in air, a plane landing or a nuke exploding ! ------
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/05/2007 13:50:55 I agree that bumping should not be possible with tiny ships; a Titan should not be able to get stuck on a shuttle. If someone wants to bump, they should have to use a ship of similar size to the one they're bumping, or at least within an order of magnitude (cruiser hitting BS, etc). The problem with bumping is that there are actually two types of bumping: a) You hit another ship. It moves. In this case, a shuttle can't do much to a large ship--its working properly. b) You put your ship IN THE PATH OF another ship. In this case, a shuttle can stop a titan. This is bugged to hell. I agree that there should be some correspondence to the relative sizes of the ships, and the bumping effect. I also believe that there should be damage. ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Susan Acid There's no gravity in space.Therefore a shuttle weighs as much as a Titan.I suppose? Correct, but irrelevant. Both are weightless in space, but the ratio of their masses determines the outcome when they collide. ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Kuseka Adama I can tell you right now if they had real life concepts involving this ramming would do near fatal damage to the target ship and any BC or higher with a microwarp would be able to take out a cap ship. I dont like the current system. BUT i wouldnt want the alternative not in a thousand years. Nobody suggests that ramming a ship should produce damage effects (althou this would make things interresting) because the fine art of ship control is not possible in EVE. What we are suggesting is to implement a measure of inertia (or resistance) to change speed when bumped. Imagine an interceptor ramming a Titan. The titan should not move and the inty should come to an instant halt. In smaller scales, the inty has a posibility to move a battleship a bit, but he still comes to a halt when he slams into it. This would prevent small and fast ship abuse like this, because when you ram a BS in an inty, you get webed and pulverized instantly. At the moment the impact produces enough transversal for the bs guns to not hit you at all. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Zee Zen	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Zee Zen on 18/05/2007 14:20:20 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Hugh Ruka Bumping is not exploit. True. When someone asked a Dev awhile ago just how they imagined a Titan ever getting killed via normal game mechanics (i.e. no metagaming) a very large part of the Dev's answer was bumping the hell out of the Titan. So, far from being an exploit it seems the Devs view it as an integral part of combat mechanics within EVE. That said yes, there really needs to be some rhyme and reason to ship mass when a bump occurs. Technically running your ski boat into an aircraft carrier would bump the carrier a smidge but I doubt it would be noticeable and it is your ski boat that will do the vast majority of the moving. I understand that it is considered an integral part of game mechanics, but it cannot be explained with any known or theorized laws of physics. In fact, web-warping makes more sense and is more explainable. Fixing this would not require damage to ships involved -- but if I put my shuttle between your freighter and the gate you're approaching, my shuttle should be swiftly shoved to the side with very little effect on your speed or direction.
jilahed	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Yblarbo Janks If there's one thing Janks has learned, it's size doesn't matter. Thats probably what your girlfriend told you, eh? But seriously bumping is fine. Its great fun and these rl-logic arguments are just flawed to hell. I don't want things in eve to work like in RL - its a game. Don't take it so serious plz Actually you don't care about rl physics. (if you really do please explain warpdrives to me with rl physics) You care about your haulers that are bumped and killed despite having tons of wcs. Of course this is totally legitimate and you are entitled to your opinion - but don't try to hide behind some poor excuses.
w0rmy Pringles Inc. YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Dark Shikari b) You put your ship IN THE PATH OF another ship. In this case, a shuttle can stop a titan. This is bugged to hell. 1 corpse to stop them all Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.05.18 15:11:00 - [21] When it is no longer possible for war targets to station hug we'll stop bumping
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.18 15:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Imagine an interceptor ramming a Titan. The titan should not move and the inty should come to an instant halt. Or fling away into space, if my assumption is correct (and the Eve background stories don't deny this) that the outer Titan shell is actually made from rubber -- CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.18 15:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Zee Zen I understand that it is considered an integral part of game mechanics, but it cannot be explained with any known or theorized laws of physics. In fact, web-warping makes more sense and is more explainable. Fixing this would not require damage to ships involved -- but if I put my shuttle between your freighter and the gate you're approaching, my shuttle should be swiftly shoved to the side with very little effect on your speed or direction. You're preaching to choir here . A agree 100%.
Seth Ruin Minmatar Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.18 15:44:00 - [24] Just voicing my support that the size of the ship should affect bumping.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.18 15:57:00 - [25] mass * velocity should be a serious consideration. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Illyria Ambri Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.18 16:07:00 - [26] Would flying mass suicide ships to hug the titan just before the DD goes off work? Then the titan gets hung up on the many wrecks surrounding it? ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom. "Will i
Rylet VanDorn Pastafarians Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.05.18 17:04:00 - [27] Implement collision damage plz. Got news for ya. If you fly a 20000 ton ship into another 20000 ton ship, a harmless deflection is NOT what's going to happen.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.18 17:06:00 - [28] It may not be an exploit, but every idiot who bumps my Mack when I'm ice mining gets a nice harassment petition sent in. There is no reason for them to bump my exhumer, short of bothering me. If they were bumping me to gank, whatever, thats why I'm in high sec.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.18 17:14:00 - [29] The ruling used to be that if bumping is used in conjuntion with shooting it was valid. If it was done only to prevent a ship from aligning, with no intention of destruction, it was not allowed. Bumping as part of combat was fine, but doing it only to annoy (or ransom) was not. I think that was a sensible position, but I do not know what the current position is. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.18 17:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Bumping is not exploit. I got an answer to a petition that it is a normal game mechanic. So next time you get bumped off station/gate or out of lockrange when dampened, you cannot complain. Actualy it is easy to implement it correctly with ship damage and all, but who cares ? The DEVs do certainly not. Casual bumping isn't an exploit, intentional bumping by a non war target to block a target so other ship can attack the target was deemed an exploit and I dubt that that ruling was rescinded.

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