| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Calexis Atredies
   |
Posted - 2007.05.18 18:03:00 -
[31]
Were trying to focus on how the drake will be affect by the nerf here, at least the myrm has other attributes going for it so it isnt too bad. But this isnt the first time the caldari have as a faction been on the recieving end of nerfing, remember ecm? Hardly anyone wants to fly caldari recon these days...
|
Amy Wang
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 18:11:00 -
[32]
So your BC sized ship wont have a tank anymore thats superior to the best active non faction BS tank while using no cap at all?
Yea, thats harsh, how could they do that to you?
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 18:49:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: jilahed
What? Are you serious? Plenty of cap? Just lol. You've obviously never flown an amarr or gallente ship that does not heavily depend on nos. If its such an advantage just actively tank your drake and stop the whinage.
Edit: Just the sole idea of cap recharge is laughable. From bc level on cap recharge means jack to armor tankers which is why injectors are a necessity. You never pvp i guess.
Not yet I don't no.
Even so, fitting a sustainable dual rep tank on a myrm is doesn't seem hard tp do at all. Certainly no problem on any gallente bs.
So I checked and an indefinitely sustainable (with recharge to spare) dual MAR2 setup takes 11 slots on the myrm, all slot cap & tank mods is just shy of indefinite mwd capability, something you will never even be able to use with a decent passive tank.
Cap recharge only "means jack" if you're being nossed, which I'm sure is a certainty in PvP, but then again, you are actually saying you would be more heavily nossed/neutralized then you could nos the other guy.
So, a weaker tank for mwd/ab/cap using guns/etc, why is that not a tradeoff?
But yes, I'm still a relatively new player, so I'm sure there are lots of things I don't know enough about yet.
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:13:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 19:13:17
Btw, did you guys know that this nbertank everyone keeps referencing, i.e. one with 4 shield relays, gets it cap recharge down to 4,6 cap/s with Energy Mgmt & Op at lvl 5.
That means you can't even run one invul and one active hardener indefinitely, much less two invuls.
|
Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:21:00 -
[35]
"AHMAGAD! GODMODE GOT TURNED OFF"
Translated for you 
Listen, I'm sorry to be harsh but both the Myrmidon's and the Drake's tanks are sick beyond what they should be. The drake may no longer be a godmobile, but that doesn't make it a bad ship. Same with the Myrmidon.
T2 BS > T2 BC. Or it should be.
-
"The Mains Created the alts
They rebelled
They look...and feel...human
Some are programmed to think they are human
There are many alts.
And they have a plan."
- Forumstar Galactica |
Calexis Atredies
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:35:00 -
[36]
A FULLY tanked BS is better than that of a BC, go take a look what a rokh can do with a fully passive tank if it uses all med and low slots. It would can be more uber than a passive super tanked drake.
T2BS > T2BC
Its just when you are sitting in your lovely bs do you really want to? Then people will be all, "ZOMG L33T HAX, CCP SAVE US!!!"
|
JamnOne
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:40:00 -
[37]
Originally by: velmistr Ecco
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
Darn straight, if I wanted to try and partially reclain the loss due to a nerf, I would be looking at upgrading to core defence purger II's, and we all know how much those cost
I guess it shouldn't problem for someone using faction mods on drake.
There are many ships that died 1 vs 1 to drakes.
Stop whinning :)
As I have asked others in different posts about the Drake I ask you as well - Please show proof of anyone dying against the Uberpassive Drake 1 on 1.
Most replies come back pointing to kill boards where over 90% of the kills were against industrials, frigates, and cruisers. The were a couple of kills but being they were in hi-sec they did not run a true passive tank but more for gank setups.
|
Calexis Atredies
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:44:00 -
[38]
Well there was a goon who apparently got popped by a passive drake. Though you would have to be a bit silly not to warp off when your tank goes, theres nothing he can do to stop you lol
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Red Crown
T2 BS > T2 BC. Or it should be.
Always has been.
|
Calexis Atredies
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:47:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Red Crown
T2 BS > T2 BC. Or it should be.
Always has been.
To silence the people who dont know how to tank BS, can someone please link a setup of a passive tanked rokh...
|
JamnOne
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 19:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
To silence the people who dont know how to tank BS, can someone please link a setup of a passive tanked rokh...
You would think there was one in the sticky but nope. Only saw lvl4 Rokh, blaster rokh, pvp rokh, and pve/salvager rokh. Maybe a new topic to show passive rokhs/battleships.
|
Mifter Hogdido
Amarr
LEG1ON
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 20:02:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Mifter Hogdido on 18/05/2007 19:59:57
To the OP.
I'm sorry but you've made a mistake in your typing. Its "The" not teh, teh is nothing, even the spell checker gives it a nice little red underlining.
Unless you say it what most like to call, the right way, I will refuse to support the Drake. Off with its shield! Oh... head, yes, its head.
|
Ansol
Gallente
Madhatters Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 20:07:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Leikung
Edited by: Leikung on 18/05/2007 15:29:46
ANything you can do in a Caldari BC, I can do faster in a crusier, or with more damage in a BS.
The BC can be avoided all together, and a lot less noobs would loose them.
A T2 cruiser like a ROOK, is so far superior to a BC it isnt funny. I take on 3x rat BSes with mine.
I can take 2x rat BS with destroyer/frig spawns included in a Taranis... so.. congrats?
The dead remember our silence,
The dead remember our indifference. |
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 20:20:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 20:20:33
A passive Rokh will actually tank slightly worse then the Drake, at least afaik. That's not my point. A Tank BS may not be able to solo a Tank Drake, but the Drake won't even scratch a Tank BS. Many people think there shouldn't be a BC tank that isn't soloable, I disagree.
The best sustainable passive omnitank I can come up with for the drake gives it 680 tankable DPS on Kinetic, it's worst damage type. The Drake will not kill even some half assed BS tank if it's setup in this way.
The Navy Mega is the best passive shield tanker I've found so far, interestingly. Though I hear the Rattlesnake is even better, haven't checked.
The Navy Mega I mentioned will have 710 tankable Kinetic dps, it's worst damage type, and 907 average tankable dps. I wonder if there is a better armortank setup for it. If there isn't, I find that quite funny. I doubt any sane person would fit a Navy Mega like this though.
|
Calexis Atredies
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 21:17:00 -
[45]
Heh heh, just did the math and found a drake with a full passive tank will survive a DD, and still have about 3000 armour hp left over. With a cloak in the extra high you can even avoid getting spotted by the cleanup squads whilst you recharge. 
|
Dario Wall
Caldari
The Movement
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 21:18:00 -
[46]
Damage output on a "pure" passive tank Drake is possibly the most laughable thing I have ever seen. Sure it can tank "most" things, but it sacrifices its damage to have that ability. Look at any BC or BS, and you can see the same. If you devote your entire fitting to tanking, you should be able to survive against a "balanced" fitting between tank and gank on another ship.
I don't even fly the Drake, and I don't see any problem with them. I've engaged Drakes numerous times, and have not once been able to kill one that is devoted to tanking, and I'm fine with that. If they want to give up damage to be able to survive, then let them.
|
Calexis Atredies
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 21:44:00 -
[47]
Exactly, it should be able to specialise in passive tanking given the sacrafices made
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 22:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
Heh heh, just did the math and found a drake with a full passive tank will survive a DD, and still have about 3000 armour hp left over. With a cloak in the extra high you can even avoid getting spotted by the cleanup squads whilst you recharge.
How exactly do doomsdays deliver their damage? The item db says some 46,8k damage, but is that instantenous, does it bypass resistances? IS the damage modified by skills or other modules?
|
Mogrin
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 22:04:00 -
[49]
Wait... 150 seconds AFTER module bonuses or BEFORE?
150 seconds AFTER would ruin passive tanking...
_______________
Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Liang Nuren
Templars of Space
CORE.
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 22:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mogrin
Wait... 150 seconds AFTER module bonuses or BEFORE?
150 seconds AFTER would ruin passive tanking...
Before ... its the "base shield recharge time" that is being "nerfed".
Liang
My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance.
I feel the need for speed! |
Liang Nuren
Templars of Space
CORE.
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 22:08:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
Heh heh, just did the math and found a drake with a full passive tank will survive a DD, and still have about 3000 armour hp left over. With a cloak in the extra high you can even avoid getting spotted by the cleanup squads whilst you recharge.
How exactly do doomsdays deliver their damage? The item db says some 46,8k damage, but is that instantenous, does it bypass resistances? IS the damage modified by skills or other modules?
Its instantaneous damage that does not bypass resists. No modules that I know of affect the DDD's damage output.
Liang
My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance.
I feel the need for speed! |
Mogrin
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 22:13:00 -
[52]
Any BC can survive a DDD just FYI.
3x plate/extender, a hardener to the damage type, and 3x of those shield/armor HP boosting riggings.
Is this unique to drakes? nein.
_______________
Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 22:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Its instantaneous damage that does not bypass resists. No modules that I know of affect the DDD's damage output.
Liang
Well... then.... doesn't any ship with, say, 85% resist to the damage type in question as well as < ~7k shield/armor survive the doomsday?
Or 80% resist and more then ~9400 shield/armor.
|
Liang Nuren
Templars of Space
CORE.
|
Posted - 2007.05.18 23:46:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Qui Shon
...
The best sustainable passive omnitank I can come up with for the drake gives it 680 tankable DPS on Kinetic, it's worst damage type. Can you come up with a BS setup that will beat the follwong tank:
EM: 907
EX: 1021
KI: 680
TH: 936
That's with all relevant skills at 5, 3x LSE2, Shield Recharger2, T2 EM&TH hardeners.
...
The Drake will not kill even some half assed BS/BC tank if it's setup in this way.
You're doing it wrong if you only get 680 DPS tankable.
Drake
Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile]
Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile]
Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile]
Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile]
Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile]
Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile]
Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile]
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Rigs : Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \
16493 shield, 180.12/s, E/T/K/Ex=58/66/75/83
4882 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/44/25/10
3515.625 cap, +3.75/s, -10.77/s
168.0 m/s
262.3 DPS
Tankable DPS (Indefinitely):
EM: 428
Exp: 1059
Kin: 720
Thm: 529
Average: 684
And that's post nerf, and yes you can run the invuln fields forever if you lose the scourge furies.
This is with compensations at 4, shield management 4, shield op 5, cap skills at 4, and a 9 mil implant investment (KVA1000, KYA1000). Missile skills were 5 as appropriate and 4 on support.
Oh, and if you're too cheap for a 9 mil investment in implants when you fit T2 across the board ... just remember your pod is harder to kill than your ship is.
Liang
My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance.
I feel the need for speed! |
tibera
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 00:03:00 -
[55]
if this is how its going to continue i want a refund on all my sp's i put into caldari ship and missles etc...... then give me all the sp's back in gallante which seem to get no nerfing what so ever...... they must be ccp's little orphan child. i mean come on we caldari finally get a ship that half way compete and ***** go the gallente whiners.... heres how you fix your little problem of not being able to kill a drake (get more skills till you can)
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 00:28:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 19/05/2007 00:26:30
Originally by: Liang Nuren
And that's post nerf, and yes you can run the invuln fields forever if you lose the scourge furies.
Well, if you use Nos to power your tank then sure.
But if you're talking real world, usable and functional setups, as opposed to the nbertank so many talk about, as well as count on Nos, then shouldn't you count on being nossed as well?
You're using BC lvl4 too.
I use the KVA2K, and KYA1K, but thought I'd leave implants out of a comparison. I was going to get the other 2K variant as well, but I'm more and more looking at armor tanking gallente ships. So I can have some cap to use for ab/mwd among other things. With my luck they'll get around to nerfin Gallente when I'm trained up in that.
|
Liang Nuren
Templars of Space
CORE.
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 01:16:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Qui Shon
With BC and shield skills at 5, my setup got average tankable DPS at 936, and lowest type at 681, indefinitely wihtout Nos.
What I'm interested in right now is mission setups that allow me to leave the computer at any time and still be fairly certain my ship will be there when I come back.
That is most likely *exactly* why the passive tank BC is getting nerfed - the Drake certainly isn't a strong contender in PVP ability (though its not terrible there - no matter what some of the whiners say).
Liang
My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance.
I feel the need for speed! |
Big Al
The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 01:26:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Big Al on 19/05/2007 01:24:35
Originally by: Badhands
I was in a 2v1 to a drake yesterday, with the drake being the solo... We were in a brutix and a stabber. The stabber got popped and the brutix warped.
To be fair, the only tackle I had was a point, you were out of my disruptor range when you popped.
Props to you guys for engaging but you could have easily jumped, or run.
Also, it was 3vs1, stabber, punisher and brutix.
|
Rusted Seven
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 03:10:00 -
[59]
Can I ask were you are getting your information about CCP nerfing the Drake. I have looked and I cant say I looked really hard but I still do not see any where that is says CCP is going to go and nerf the drake.
If CCP decides to do this I am going to get really butt hurt. If CCP is considering this I would too like a refund on all my skill points I have sunk into shield skills.If they are going to take this away I would like to know what they are going to give us in return. If they add 150 sec to our shield regen time what are they going to swap us out?
But I would really love to know where you guys are getting your information about CCP nerfing the Drake.
|
Liang Nuren
Templars of Space
CORE.
|
Posted - 2007.05.19 03:35:00 -
[60]
SiSi has all Battlecruisers (not just the Drake) at a 1400 second recharge time. TBH, though, can you really justify battleship shields and cruiser recharge?
I do hope they give it a bone though ... I'm a big fan of +1 low slot for the precious, but the ROF bonus people clamor for would be ok too.
Liang
My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance.
I feel the need for speed! |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |