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Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:46:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Calexis Atredies on 18/05/2007 15:02:56
Well the title says it all really. I have heard of this apparent nerf to all BC's that is going to add 150 sec extra shield regen time. Ok so talking of shields they mean they want to nerf the myrmidon and drake since they are the only ones who can weild this abillity effectively. So a myrmidon can still deal decent damage to give it a fighting chance, and can also dual armour rep nicely too. But the drake!! that would be like neutering a stud. I am caldari, therefore I shield tank, 150 secs might not seem much but will mean life or death with a T2 fitted BS bearing down on you.
The caladri ethic is shield tanking and missles, the drake is a bit wimpy on the DPS from its missles when tanked. It's like a turtoise, it aint gonna gnarl your legs off...
http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mydrakewu0.jpg (this is my drake, it aint gonna bite ya)
The only people who would actually try to bring down a drake 1 on 1 are wanna be low sec pirates, it cant tackle so its offensive capabilities are nill. "oh noes my T2 gangkageddon isnt working, HAX!, u sux u n00b"
The pirates have only proven one thing, squeal loud enough and long enough and CCP will hear your plight. I think they call it "customer satisfaction". Anyways, the ships that pilots fly are distributed like a feudal system, big un's at the top little ones at the bottom. If CCP nerfs the people lower down there will be alot more players to cheese off.
So now to all those who appreciate the drakes grace and resiliance, I ask you to follow the pirates example and squeal for all you hold dear. SAVE TEH DRAKE
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Gladiator Jonny
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:48:00 -
[2]
Drake is fine, stop crying.
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Enduros
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:56:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Calexis Atredies
150 secs might not seem much but will mean life or death with a T2 fitted BS bearing down on you.
Umm... that kinda is the point, it should most likely be DEATH in that case. Nothing should really outtank (as in sit there and take all the hits) a t2 BS...
As for myrm, it will probably loose some slots and get only 5% drone bonus, or something.
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Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 14:57:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Calexis Atredies on 18/05/2007 14:58:40
Count the cost of my modules and the amount of sp needed to use them affectively, its gotta buy you something and it sure as hell aint DPS  and as of so far I only just managed to tank a T2 hyperion at 30% and about the same for a T2 CNR, one more ship, be it a cruiser would have changed that...
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Enduros
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:06:00 -
[5]
o rly?? So laughing at something that does 1k dps and can't kill an outclassed ship is normal?
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Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:11:00 -
[6]
Well I wasnt really laughing, nor would you if your ship was that close to being broken, as I said if he had a friend nearby I would have gone squidge. And please if anyone has been popped by a passive drake 1 on 1 let me know so I can laugh 
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Enduros
o rly?? So laughing at something that does 1k dps and can't kill an outclassed ship is normal?
It can't realy kill a skilled inty also, and that's an outclassed ship too ... you have more of these ?
Anyway, my original point in this thread is:
SCREW THE DRAKE !!! SAVE THE FEROX !!!
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
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Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:23:00 -
[8]
I have to admit, the ferox is a sorry ship, I was dreading moving up to BC's before the drake came out
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DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:27:00 -
[9]
i'm sorry but i think it's ridiculous that a drake fitted in a certain way can tank almost any ship in game indefinately without needing any cap. it's a friggin battlecruiser ffs. yes with a tank like that u can't do any decent dmg but i still don't think it should be able to tank like that. i'm not saying nerf it, you'll very very rarely hear me say to nerf something as decent pilots will just adapt but i do think it's silly. i saw a drake tanking a domi with 5 ogre II's, 6 neutron II's with void and 3 mag stab II's. the domi never got him below 50% shields which is just kinda silly imo.
but lets just let gm's do what they do and tust them to maintain balance.
DE
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Leikung
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:31:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Leikung on 18/05/2007 15:29:46
ANything you can do in a Caldari BC, I can do faster in a crusier, or with more damage in a BS.
The BC can be avoided all together, and a lot less noobs would loose them.
A T2 cruiser like a ROOK, is so far superior to a BC it isnt funny. I take on 3x rat BSes with mine.
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Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:32:00 -
[11]
Why would they change a ship for which they dont get any complaints from pilots about their ships being smashed to bits due to an unfair advantage?
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AnKahn
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:35:00 -
[12]
Can any of you math guys calculate how may shield purger rigs will be needed to counter the nerf?
Currently they run 20 mil isk each.
If the answer is 2 then 35 mil for ship plus 40 mil in rigs to be where we are now with the Drake (minus the 2 slots I will have to use).
The question you all are avoiding is "WHO AMOUNG YOU HAS DIED 1 VS 1 TO A DRAKE?"
If you guys want the Caldari blessed ability to PvE, you can have it. WE WILL NOT COMPLAIN IF CCP HELPS YOU THIS WAY.
I approved this message.
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Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 15:40:00 -
[13]
Darn straight, if I wanted to try and partially reclain the loss due to a nerf, I would be looking at upgrading to core defence purger II's, and we all know how much those cost
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Eardianm
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:03:00 -
[14]
But why do you even need to make up the difference? What are you using it for? It's not like the uber tank is being nerfed into oblivion. It will still be a valid setup.
For missions, at least. I have no idea why you'd use it for anything else. Unless people are still silly enough to fall for its bait ship role.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:07:00 -
[15]
One super passive Drake wont kill much, but two on the other hand.
I can tank quite a bit in my BS for quite awhile, but I dont do enough damage to kill one of those Drakes before the two of them break my tank.
_________________________
~Thor Xian, Star Commander |
Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:08:00 -
[16]
I do use it for PVE on lvl 4's. But in some cases that means alot of ships shooting me or travelling into low sec... I do appreciate it for a reason
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Corbin Bec
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gladiator Jonny
Drake is fine, stop crying.
Saith the smug Gallente as his comrades flit around in their overpowered Myrmidons of Doom.
I'd get a Myrmidon myself if I thought they'd stay as is, but no doubt the nerf bat is being retargeted as we speak. |
velmistr Ecco
Caldari
InNova Tech Inc
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
Darn straight, if I wanted to try and partially reclain the loss due to a nerf, I would be looking at upgrading to core defence purger II's, and we all know how much those cost
I guess it shouldn't problem for someone using faction mods on drake.
There are many ships that died 1 vs 1 to drakes.
Stop whinning :)
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jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
The only people who would actually try to bring down a drake 1 on 1 are wanna be low sec pirates, it cant tackle so its offensive capabilities are nill. "oh noes my T2 gangkageddon isnt working, HAX!, u sux u n00b"
Yeah. You obviously seek balance.
The point is a dual rep setup might tank equally with competitive gear - but only as long as it has cap charges. (This might be different for myrmi - but thats another story.)
I see it this way: Passive tanks are fine and a good thing with the overall abundance of nos. But the undeniable advantage of being nearly cap-independent should mean the tank should suffer in some other way. This should be tankable damage. Why should an amor tanker pay craploads of cap to tank *and* still tank less or at best the same amount of damage that a passive tanker does? That just doesn't seem right imo.
And just so that you know: Most armor tanks are not sustainable. So as long as your passive drake can tank the damage it recieves permanently and do more damage than the maximum shield recharge rate of the target - it can very well kill things.
They only question is how good can be the tank after fitting web+scram and 1 or 2 nos. I didn't run numbers but i can imagine you can do nasty things with that. Only because you don't doesnt mean its impossible.
That argument with tech2 fitted bs is stupid imo. I can't stand a tech2 fitted bs thats not piloted by a monkey no matter if i fly my myrmidon, my harbinger, my prophecy or my brutix. Why should it be so different with the drake?
Apart from that people who are far more in to passive tanking than me have already confirmed that its only a minor nerf(just read the other threads - they have given fittings and numbers). Even if it goes to TQ your drake tank will still be sick and beat dual armor reps by far taking the cap-efficiency into account. (which is a must in pvp for gallente/amarr)
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Badhands
Gallente
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
Edited by: Calexis Atredies on 18/05/2007 15:02:56
150 secs might not seem much but will mean life or death with a T2 fitted BS bearing down on you.
As if a battlecruiser should be able to tank a T2 fitted BS...
.
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LoKesh
Amarr
SH Brotherhood
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:38:00 -
[21]
First, for Pete's sake - spell 'the' right.
Second, I really think CCP should individually adjust the shield recharge rates. Again, we see a situation where a drone ship is able to do to many things at once, and to counter this CCP nerfs everything. It happened with ECM and now we see shields.
Yes, a passive tanked drake has a huge tank. But it has crud dps. You've made a trade-off and it's fine.
If anything - hit the myrmidon etc with +200 to cap recharge time, the drake with 75 and maybe even reduce the recharge time on the ferox (making the ship slightly more useful). Can we target nerfs to the problem ships and not blanket things?
RISE - Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Badhands
Gallente
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: AnKahn
The question you all are avoiding is "WHO AMOUNG YOU HAS DIED 1 VS 1 TO A DRAKE?"
I was in a 2v1 to a drake yesterday, with the drake being the solo... We were in a brutix and a stabber. The stabber got popped and the brutix warped.
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Liang Nuren
Templars of Space
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: AnKahn
Can any of you math guys calculate how may shield purger rigs will be needed to counter the nerf?
Currently they run 20 mil isk each.
If the answer is 2 then 35 mil for ship plus 40 mil in rigs to be where we are now with the Drake (minus the 2 slots I will have to use).
The question you all are avoiding is "WHO AMOUNG YOU HAS DIED 1 VS 1 TO A DRAKE?"
If you guys want the Caldari blessed ability to PvE, you can have it. WE WILL NOT COMPLAIN IF CCP HELPS YOU THIS WAY.
I approved this message.
In another thread (OMG Shield Nerf??) its about 8-9 pages long, I (very briefly and cyptically) told everyone how to alter Quickfit to get the appropriate numbers "post nerf".
There's a file in your Quickfit directory (I'm at work or I'd tell you what its name is), that contains descriptions of the Drake, Ferox, Heavy Missile launchers, etc. You can search for it, and you'll find it.
I listed the line number and what to change in that thread. I also posted a bunch of setups (mostly setup for tank because that's what everyone's whining about) that will still work (and fairly well at that).
If you have trouble with it, eve-mail me and I'll give you better instructions. I *may* continue to check this thread as long as the level of utterly stupid whinage doesn't spike.
Liang
My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance.
I feel the need for speed! |
Paigan
Amarr
Thirdwave
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:41:00 -
[24]
1400sec instead of 1250sec simply means like 90% tanking of what it has now.
Given that passive tank is about 200% imbalanced, 90% isn't that dramatical. It's still extreme imbalanced for a BC.
(Flamers: i fly one myself. That's why i say passive tanking is hopelessly imba)
So stop crying everybody and instead be happy like i am that it continues to be so unbelievable imba.
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This game is still in beta stage |
Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:41:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Calexis Atredies on 18/05/2007 16:43:09
Quote:
That argument with tech2 fitted bs is stupid imo. I can't stand a tech2 fitted bs thats not piloted by a monkey no matter if i fly my myrmidon, my harbinger, my prophecy or my brutix. Why should it be so different with the drake?
Errr... your myrm could out passive tank my drake... just using heavy drones and nos make it a perfectly capable PvP ship at the same time...
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:47:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/05/2007 16:46:12
Die Drake you overpowered piece of caldari crap.
Maybe next they will understand that Myrmidon is just as overpowered? Maybe in 2008. 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2007.05.18 16:50:00 -
[27]
well obviously people just dont like the fact that they cant kill what they pecieve to be a cra* ship.
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Not Bait
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
Edited by: Calexis Atredies on 18/05/2007 16:45:41
Edited by: Calexis Atredies on 18/05/2007 16:43:36
A myrm can out passive tanka drake ezy
And yet there are still no reports of Myrms soloing level 5 missions on sisi. No Myrms at all, much less those with just T2 fitting.
It was simply a PvE nerf for a PvE setup.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:24:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/05/2007 17:22:05
Originally by: Calexis Atredies
That argument with tech2 fitted bs is stupid imo. I can't stand a tech2 fitted bs thats not piloted by a monkey no matter if i fly my myrmidon, my harbinger, my prophecy or my brutix. Why should it be so different with the drake?
If your intention is to say the Drake can tank better then the Myrm, then you are wrong. At most skill levels the Myrm can tank just as well using the same method as the Drake.
A 10 slot tank on the Drake can no longer tank "almost any ship in the game" as Mr. Elf put it.
A passive (heavily) tanked ship also has virtually no cap recharge, so can pretty much forget about using cap draining weapons or other mods, like AB, much less mwd. Or if they do, the time to use them is severly limited.
Cap use could be considered an advantage of the armor tank, instead of a drawback, as you have plenty of cap that you can use for other things. At least whenever you don't need both reppers running.
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jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.18 17:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: jilahed on 18/05/2007 18:04:56
Originally by: Qui Shon
If your intention is to say the Drake can tank better then the Myrm, then you are wrong. At most skill levels the Myrm can tank just as well using the same method as the Drake.
No thats not my intention. The passive tank on a myrmi is as crazy, but this OP was aimed at the drake, wasn't it? Also myrmi is overpowered imo and it works even better as armor tank with nos in his and tackling/ewar in mids.
Originally by: Qui Shon
A 10 slot tank on the Drake can no longer tank "almost any ship in the game" as Mr. Elf put it.
Thats a good thing imo.
Originally by: Qui Shon
A passive (heavily) tanked ship also has virtually no cap recharge, so can pretty much forget about using cap draining weapons or other mods, like AB, much less mwd. Or if they do, the time to use them is severly limited.
So?
Originally by: Qui Shon
Cap use could be considered an advantage of the armor tank, instead of a drawback, as you have plenty of cap that you can use for other things. At least whenever you don't need both reppers running.
What? Are you serious? Plenty of cap? Just lol. You've obviously never flown an amarr or gallente ship that does not heavily depend on nos. If its such an advantage just actively tank your drake and stop the whinage.
Edit: Just the sole idea of cap recharge is laughable. From bc level on cap recharge means jack to armor tankers which is why injectors are a necessity. You never pvp i guess.
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