As you know PLEX pirce is increasing all days about 50M per day, that's is a fact and this is out of control.

I don't know from who was the idea to split PLEX, but was a wrong idea... because if you split something always will become more expensive if that was the objective, well done. If not... well you can see the finale scene.

I being playing EVE since 4 month and I started playing EVE because I could pay the suscription with money of game (ISK). I bought 500 PLEX's two days ago for the first time to upgrade to Omega, but if this continue in a few month I will leave the game, like me probably are a lot of players that is in my same situation

A possible solution to control PLEX price:
1. Back to exclusive item PLEX 1 unit, not 500 like now.
2. Put a a minimum price and maximum price to the actual PLEX. a long time stable price is the best option.

The objective of CCP should be:
1. Keep happy the players.
2. Continue to grow as a community, not multi-accounts from the same player.
3. Keep upgrading the game.

What they could do to decrease the insane demand for PLEX:

Do something about ghost training (which has just been done). The break-even point for ghost training (where PLEX lets you train just enough SP to sell for the ISK for the PLEX) was a much higher PLEX price than, say, non-exploit skill farming. I expect with the demise of ghost training we'll see SP prices rise more and PLEX prices stop this meteoric rise.

I think this is more significant than your suggestion to limit skill injector use - with ghost training gone the demand for PLEX to buy skill extractors will fall naturally.

They've also recently eliminated - well, reduced - PLEX losses in transit, but I dunno how significant those ever were.

You're quite right about ISKflation, of course.

Hey there,

As you know PLEX pirce is increasing all days about 50M per day (500 PLEX's), that's is a fact and this is out of control. PLEX item is a special item, because give you time in game to keep your Omega status, probably is the most important item in game. If this problem will happens for example to Injectors probably will not a problem, because if you do not buy or you can not buy for high price for your poor econony, you just will need to expend more time in game... but your status Omega will keep a live. In this case PLEX item is big problem for new players. I don't know from who was the idea to split PLEX, but was a wrong idea... because if you split something always will become more expensive if that was the objective, well done. If not... well you can see the finale scene. The trillionary players probably do not care the price for now, but for a new players like me, YES. I being playing EVE since 4 month and I started playing EVE because I could pay the suscription with money of game (ISK). I bought 500 PLEX's two days ago for the first time to upgrade to Omega, but if this continue in a few month I will leave the game, like me probably are a lot of players that is in my same situation.

IMO the absolute best thing CCP could do is to increase the build and copy time on the most expensive blueprints in the game.

Suddenly players will need a lot more of them, and buying blueprints from NPCs is a massive, massive ISK sink. Destroying ISK will lower the PLEX to ISK conversion rate.

A 30% increase in build and copy time on capital ships and capital components, followed by a second 30% increase in the medium term (6-9 months, maybe 12), and a 50% increase in build/copy times on all Citadel related things (structure components, citadel hulls, rigs) would be a tremendous indirect ISK sink.
.

I'm not sure where CCP have been actively manipulating?
They have put out an exploit notice in regards to ghost training (not generating isk) and have already said it was a mistake that all the Concord ships got handed out (again not generating isk), and have put a fix in place to ensure it doesn't happen again.
I'm not sure how either of those things is spawning isk can be considered CCP actively manipulating the market?. It's creating a channel for transferring isk but not spawning it.

If intended or not it is an activ manipulation! So as long as criminals and ccp is manipulating the market and hurting the game you should not speak about free market at all! :-) And as long as "illegal isk" is not drawn out of the game ccp is supporting this by not acting in all consequences!

Why the actual f*** do you want Plex prices controlled?

It's not rising 50M a day. The split into mini-PLEX has caused some inflation of the pricing, but it really isn't as bad as you're making out.

When i started playing a PLEX was 250-300M, it is now 1.3B. While it obviously has increased in price, it is in fact easier to afford for a new player now than it was then in my opinion due to increased access to higher paying content these days.

You mention you already bought 500 PLEX, how did you afford them?

EDIT : EvE is famous for it's player driven market. Suggesting CCP intervene and impose a maximum / minimum price rule is unlikely to garner good responses, and rightly so.
Only for PLEX is my suggestion, there are plenty of more items that you can speculate...

I realise 1.3B seems like a massive amount if ISK but you must understand that paying your sub with ISK is not supposed to be easy for newer players, and that your ability to generate ISK will rise a lot over the next year or so to the point where PLEX is not such a huge cost.

[citation needed] and why is it out of control?

I imagine it was someone involved in making CCP more money, and I'm sure they're getting quite a few pats on the back right now. Converting PLEX to Aurum in order to use it for microtransactions was clunky and benefited mostly traders, while putting people off of buying smaller items due to cost of entry being 500 new PLEX.

Have you considered getting better at making ISK, or paying for your subscription with real money?

The first will not happen because it'd be a step backwards and lose profit for CCP. The second shouldn't happen because EVE prides itself on being a sandbox and artificial price fixing would go against that, also what happens when you lock the price in and the rich buy out all the PLEX for sale? That's the reason PLEX price increase, supply and demand I guess?

I'm pretty sure the objectives of for-profit company should be to make profit, if that aligns with your points then that's great.

No. CCP can't put a hard limit on PLEX. That would cause a 2nd summer of rage in no time and the investors and speculators, who hoard millions of PLEX, would take revenge by i.e. crashing the PLEX market so hard that people would stop buying PLEX with RL money. That would have severe effects on CCP's revenue.

Whats CCP needs to do:

• nerf ISK faucets
• buff ISK sinks

What they could do to decrease the insane demand for PLEX:

• limit skill injectors to 1 per day
• turn 30 days of Omega time into a token (like multi character training) and sell it for 400 PLEX. That way investors would not be affected (SP farms and PLEX hoarders create the most demand for PLEX), but players who need to buy PLEX with ISK to pay their subscripton would have it easier. Subscribing with real money would still be cheaper (30 day sub with real money: 11-15Gé¼; 30 day sub with token: 16Gé¼).

IMO the absolute best thing CCP could do is to increase the build and copy time on the most expensive blueprints in the game.

Suddenly players will need a lot more of them, and buying blueprints from NPCs is a massive, massive ISK sink. Destroying ISK will lower the PLEX to ISK conversion rate.

A 30% increase in build and copy time on capital ships and capital components, followed by a second 30% increase in the medium term (6-9 months, maybe 12), and a 50% increase in build/copy times on all Citadel related things (structure components, citadel hulls, rigs) would be a tremendous indirect ISK sink.

One that anyone with a wealth significantly less than mine would not notice at all.

Do something about ghost training (which has just been done). The break-even point for ghost training (where PLEX lets you train just enough SP to sell for the ISK for the PLEX) was a much higher PLEX price than, say, non-exploit skill farming. I expect with the demise of ghost training we'll see SP prices rise more and PLEX prices stop this meteoric rise.

I think this is more significant than your suggestion to limit skill injector use - with ghost training gone the demand for PLEX to buy skill extractors will fall naturally.

They've also recently eliminated - well, reduced - PLEX losses in transit, but I dunno how significant those ever were.

You're quite right about ISKflation, of course.

Why the actual f*** do you want Plex prices controlled?
Just because you want to pay for your subscription and not have to work too hard to afford it?
If Plex is cheap no one pays RL money for it because it's not good value. And that is just not good business for CCP.

Let the players decide where Plex prices should be, get gud and put some more work into making isk if you can't afford a real sub.

Or, another option could be this really cool feature they added which allows you to play the game without paying any money at all, alpha clones. Maybe give that a whirl.

You realize the change to plex hasnt happened very long ago, right? When I first played EVE eons ago, plex was 500m each. By today's standards, that would have been a few hours, days, or a slow month of ratting. Back then? Solo player who ran sec missions in hisec who's greatest achievement was saving up for a T1 battleship to run L4s in? 500m would take weeks. That being said, it has not been enough time to see if plex will continue rising in price, drop back down, or stabilize somewhere in between.

Bear in mind as well, before last year/several months ago, you DIDNT have an option to make isk if you let your account lapse. You were basically told "tough **** lol, get daddy's credit card," not "welp, you're limited in what you can do, but you can still make isk."

So that average players can afford to pay their subscription with ISK?

These days the PLEX market is controlled by the space rich, speculators and investors who hoard millions of PLEX.

SP farms (the legal version) create a huge demand for PLEX which drives up the prices.

What would you prefer? A few thousand active players or a few thousand SP farm accounts who only login once a month and never undock?

Stuff like SP farms shouldnt even exist. How is it balanced to make billions per month with no work and no risk? If CCP wouldnt earn money with it (by selling skill extractors), it would be removed / blocked within days.

Every year CCP monetizes more aspects of the game by adding more uses for PLEX. Apparently the #1 goal for CCP is to sqeeze as much money out of the existing playerbase as possible. That strategy might be good for their wallets in the short term, but its very bad for the game in the long term. Player count goes down and down ... at the moment its ~15000 ... a few years ago we had twice as many, even on weekdays.

[...]

Yes it is, if you count 500 = 50M/day more expensive.

[...]

As I said before I has been playing since 4 month a lot of hours day.

[...]

Maybe for a veterans, but new players no... and 1.5b current price... :)

First option on it, but need time for that... second no option for me. The problem is if PLEX keep increasing the price.

While it obviously has increased in price, it is in fact easier to afford for a new player now than it was then in my opinion due to increased access to higher paying content these days.

The banning of ghost training could also have the opposite effect because you can also farm SP legally by giving all your farming accounts Omega status (you buy Omega status with PLEX).

It's not rising 50M a day. .

But where is this 'illegal' isk coming from?

Hey there,

As you know PLEX pirce is increasing all days about 50M per day (500 PLEX's), that's is a fact and this is out of control. PLEX item is a special item, because give you time in game to keep your Omega status, probably is the most important item in game. If this problem will happens for example to Injectors probably will not a problem, because if you do not buy or you can not buy for high price for your poor econony, you just will need to expend more time in game... but your status Omega will keep a live. In this case PLEX item is big problem for new players. I don't know from who was the idea to split PLEX, but was a wrong idea... because if you split something always will become more expensive if that was the objective, well done. If not... well you can see the finale scene. The trillionary players probably do not care the price for now, but for a new players like me, YES. I being playing EVE since 4 month and I started playing EVE because I could pay the suscription with money of game (ISK). I bought 500 PLEX's two days ago for the first time to upgrade to Omega, but if this continue in a few month I will leave the game, like me probably are a lot of players that is in my same situation.

A possible solution to control PLEX price:
1. Back to exclusive item PLEX 1 unit, not 500 like now.
2. Put a a minimum price and maximum price to the actual PLEX. a long time stable price is the best option.

The better solution I think is the second option that CCP can get.

The objective of CCP should be:
1. Keep happy the players.
2. Continue to grow as a community, not multi-accounts from the same player.
3. Keep upgrading the game.

Feel free to post your option to stop price up.

I hope some GM can read this... :)

My most sincere and humble opinion.

Best regards,
Navik

So that average players can afford to pay their subscription with ISK?

It is 16:41 on 21st June game time, and the PLEX 500 is 1.35 Billion.

Plex needs a 2m cap.
No one needs more than 1b from rmt. Otherwise the games just pay to win.
Only people who can afford to Plex each month are ultra rich. 1.5b monthly is insane.

What difference does the extra 1m/unit of PLEX make? Other than you not wanting to pay that much, which is kind of selfish really.

CCP is still sitting on large quantities of confiscated PLEX, if CCP would desire, they could reintroduce them to the market. They did once before.

Now these SP farms you are so upset about, do you think they would be sustainable if the PLAYERS did not want the SP?
Or Do you think the SP injectors should be cheap enough for everyone aswell?


It's not expensive to set up a SP farm, heck if your so upset about it extract your main and put the injectors up at a price you think they should be, or you could even buy PLEX and put it up on the market at the price you think it should be.

Quit your self entitled whinging and go play WOW if you want a game that's fair for everyone, go tell them their 'tokens' are too expensive.

This would theoretically create a short term over supply and a short term fix. Once the stocks are exhausted then price should return to the new higher equillibrium.

Not if they keep doing it (and keep handing out bans). It would seem fair enough - every 500 PLEX bought means a month of gametime, rather than some disappearing into a void - although of course it's nicer for CCP's bottom line in the short term to have those PLEX just disappear.

This idea has two different parts, the reinjection of confiscated assets (which are deemed to have been gained by illicit activity) and the decrease of demand by banning more players.

The first question is of morality. Should we use assets gained by exploits?

If we do then this would increase the supply and drive down cost. This would also improve the marginal utility of players increasing demand throughout the markets (less spent on plex more to spend on other assets). This would increase inflation , trade and industry becomes more profitable, plex becomes even more affordable, more demand, prices rise and back to higher equillibrium.

Why ask CCP to subsidise free play? The players mange the market just fine.

I don't know why CCP would reintroduce confiscated PLEX. PLEX that was bought with real world money that was confiscated is no longer a liability as it can not be used any longer. The only way that I would think this PLEX would ever find its way back into the game is if they literally resell it for real world money again. If CCP wanted to attempt to drop PLEX prices then you'd get a super PLEX sale.

I don't know why CCP would reintroduce confiscated PLEX. PLEX that was bought with real world money that was confiscated is no longer a liability as it can not be used any longer. The only way that I would think this PLEX would ever find its way back into the game is if they literally resell it for real world money again. If CCP wanted to attempt to drop PLEX prices then you'd get a super PLEX sale.

Pretty sound reasoning except you have omitted a large part of the argument. Plex is no longer used for solely for subscriptions. CCP indeed owns the inputs and outputs of the market and therefore controls the market I agree but you are asking for intervention on a single asset to yield the price you would like for a purpose that suits your specific needs.

Another significant point is that the plex to real currency exchange is more favourable. If you purchase plex to sell this is a good time, there are many benefits to this outcome. Players can raise more isk and more fundamentally CCP can raise more income which in turn helps to fund development and continue the game.

Just to clarify I think at this point the market needs to correct and not be corrected.

I don't know why CCP would reintroduce confiscated PLEX.

No, I'm not asking for that. Personally I don't care about the PLEX price one jot - I pay for my subscription with cash money and always have, bought my character transfer PLEX and MCT PLEX with cash money, don't use New Eden Store cosmetics nor skill injectors or extractors. I'm not asking for anything, there isn't a price I would like, and this is nothing to do with my needs or wants.

I'm discussing an idea that was mooted in the thread - and the other thing I'm pointing out is that calling it an intervention is a bit misleading because anything CCP does - even nothing - is equally well them manipulating the market. It doesn't have a natural hands-off state.

This is obviously true in the short term, but equally it seems likely that a high price will cause a decline in the number of players, but a high player count helps keep everyone interested. If a bunch of poors leave, that may cause whales to leave (and meaning there's not a net change in the ratio of supply and demand) - making this a bad thing in the long run. I imagine CCP have a better idea of what might happen than we do, which is why it's interesting that the suggested intervention has been done in the past as a response to a rapidly rising PLEX price.

It is established that CCP own, hold and control the whole of the market. This statement is correct but the conversation ( as you correctly point out) is whether CCP should intervene to stop rising plex prices.

We can both agree that the market has no real hands off state but if we assume this position then the answer to this whole thread is that all of our points are meaningless.

Past interventions have little relevence in this environment however, because the price change is driven by the fundamental change in plex.

If fewer sub then reduce the plex requirement to guide behaviour in this direction.

CCP is so easy to end the price spillover of PLEX.

I'll give the tip!

Make the PLEX that is bought by the market within the game become non-negotiable.

It can only be donated or applied to the account that bought it.

Those who buy on the site directly from CCP may by the sale in the game market.

But whoever buys it inside the game on the market will not be able to sell it again.

READY!! THE BACON HAS CLEARED! =)

It seems like there's even a simpler idea.

If there is a need to keep plex around a certain price... the simplest way to do so is to introduce more plex to the economy.

I'm not sure if that's necessary or not... but if CCP decided they needed to drop the price of plex... then simple give every subscribed account X number of plex. The price will drop. Pretty simple.

If you need to drop it more... give away more plex.

I do not see any CCP solution by PLEX in the market to bring down the price. This only gets worse because the smart ones buy these PLEX and resell.

Unless you're sarcastic....CCP makes money off of PLEX. They would never do this.

Unless you're sarcastic....CCP makes money off of PLEX. They would never do this.

Back when plex were in the 350-500m range I used to sub 4 accounts and usually gave away a plex to some random nooblet every few months. During this time I could reasonably expect an income around 7~ish billion a month give or take based on drops and market flux. Comparing this to today where the ships available for my isk making are worse, the loot sold sells for around 30% or so of its previous prices in years gone by, it can be a challenge to get 2b out of exactly the same items, and take longer getting them.

Nowadays my brother and brother in law no longer play, so I have only my and my alt accounts to sub, forget handouts as it's too expensive to afford. However, upon recieving the 6 days left email for my alt account and looking at the market I decided today's 1.56b overwhelmed the benefits of having even my own alt active. As for the fate of my main account.... stale content is stale content. At time of posting it's less than 20K accounts logged in whereas at this time in summer it should be 30-35k around this time of day.

There are too many factors involved to say one thing drives the plex market one way or the other, but as I have very little RL money, the rising plex prices will eventually make an unobtainable celing where I'll have to walk away for good.

... looking at the market I decided today's 1.56b overwhelmed the benefits of having even my own alt active

... the rising plex prices will eventually make an unobtainable ceiling where I'll have to walk away for good.

It seems like there's even a simpler idea.

If there is a need to keep plex around a certain price... the simplest way to do so is to introduce more plex to the economy.

I'm not sure if that's necessary or not... but if CCP decided they needed to drop the price of plex... then simple give every subscribed account X number of plex. The price will drop. Pretty simple.

If you need to drop it more... give away more plex.

It's not rising 50M a day. The split into mini-PLEX has caused some inflation of the pricing, but it really isn't as bad as you're making out.

When i started playing a PLEX was 250-300M, it is now 1.3B. While it obviously has increased in price, it is in fact easier to afford for a new player now than it was then in my opinion due to increased access to higher paying content these days.

You mention you already bought 500 PLEX, how did you afford them?

EDIT : EvE is famous for it's player driven market. Suggesting CCP intervene and impose a maximum / minimum price rule is unlikely to garner good responses, and rightly so.

I realise 1.3B seems like a massive amount if ISK but you must understand that paying your sub with ISK is not supposed to be easy for newer players, and that your ability to generate ISK will rise a lot over the next year or so to the point where PLEX is not such a huge cost.

If CCP create PLEX, those PLEX will be bought up by the rorqual miners and carrier/supercarrier ratters, and spent (via sub time and injectors) to create more rorqual miners and more carrier ratters.

Well if CCP no cares. i dont know how many time EVE can stay on the 1st plan compare to other game who are raising. i think its slowly going to die

RIP EVE <3

2003-2018?

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Currently online: 15,926
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Remember, month salary in states like Ukraine is about 110-120 euro per month. Do you really think they will pay real money for subscription? Imagine 90 % of all russian speaking players left Eve all together.

People who keep their accounts subbed via PLEX don't pay CCP, and the people who keep the market supplied with PLEX will continue to do so regardless of whether some F2P players unsub or not.

Easy to say that, but there's the rub. The whales presumably like to have someone to play with - and if demand is diminishing because poors are leaving, and yet the price is still staying high, that suggests supply might be decreasing as well. (Of course there are other explanations, primary amongst them that speculators are still buying all the PLEX they can lay their hands on.)

Spare me the usual imprecations; I have always paid cash for my sub and never bought or sold a PLEX for ISK, so I don't have any personal motivation here.

You look like Lucy Liu.

I don't believe Eve has whales, i.e where 10% of the playerbase subsidises the other 90% like in most other F2P games.

I would honestly love to see the statistics of how many people keep their accounts in omega state via PLEX vs subscription.

It's pretty basic economics why PLEX prices have risen and why there is literally nothing CCP can do about it. Should they artificially limit how much a PLEX can be sold for? Everyone would just use contracts.
Should they inject PLEX into the market? If they try to sell for lower than it's currently going for, it'll just be bought up in bulk and relisted for the current prices.

I'm so tired of people assuming a large part of the rising price is due to these mysterious trillionare speculators, I see no proof.

Let's put that into rough figures.
Let's say there are 20k unique subbed accounts accounts, 20% play via PLEX. Of those 20%, half can't afford PLEX now. So roughly 2k players stop playing. Would anyone notice? Would "whales" stop supplying the market?

Until the margins for SP trading become too small, PLEX isn't going to stabilise.