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Meeat
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Posted - 2007.05.19 04:38:00 -
[1]
These are the ONLY 2 ships that can actually passive tank.
If the game was not suppose to have passive tanks then take out all the passive tank modules and lighten you database load.
It seems that before the Drake came about that the only ship that could do missions was the Raven.
Drake comes out and there was light. You are not forced to get a Raven to do missions.
Wow what a thought you have a choice. These two ships are the only passive tanks that are viable for any use.
So many ships in this game have no purpose due to the fact that there are other ships that fill the role better.
Please do not push the Drake and Myrm into this area. It has been exciting and very refreshing to actually have a choice.
I hope a Dev reads this and will at least think about it and pass on the sentiment before two more nice ships get pushed to oblivion.
Thanks for listening |
Shardrael
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.05.19 04:46:00 -
[2]
if the game was not meant to have passive regenerating tanks there would be no shield recharge.....
 Originally by: Stamm
Some people might have been convinced by the official announcement posted by Steelrat, but not me, I wasn't convinced until some random alt posts a brand new thread.
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Hellman109
Gallente
Magnetar Ltd
Dark Synergy
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Posted - 2007.05.19 05:04:00 -
[3]
In the Myrmidons case its basically the only shield tanking setup for Gallente aswell, so to train for it is allot of extra work.
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Lusian
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:03:00 -
[4]
Ohnestly i always thought people complained too much for nerfing.
In my opinion, the fact that you have ships that can fill roles beter means there will always be ships that will be created and develpoed to counter the strengths of other ships. The whole point of eve is realistially PVP.
So you need ships that can take advantage of other ships weaknesses and has the lack of what the other ship has, unless i am mistaken. If everything inthsi game was equal there would be no pint in plaing because there would be no reason to improve yourself in it.
God i hope the dev's read this post and ban the ones who cry for nerfing. ")
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:19:00 -
[5]
or perhaps its that the game was not suppose to have overpowered passive tanks...
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:20:00 -
[6]
Well if drake isnt going to be nerfed then ships like the harbinger need a massive boost.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.05.19 08:16:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 19/05/2007 08:16:22
Originally by: bundy bear
Well if drake isnt going to be nerfed then ships like the harbinger need a massive boost.
Harbinger at present BC regen values:
3x LSE II
1x Inuvl II
6x SPR II
3x Purger rigs.
Peak shield regen: 384,84 sh/s
Resistances EM/EX/KI/TH: 30/72/58/44
That's 550 tankable dps on it's weakest resist, with relevant shield skills at 5.
Fit 7x 650mm Arty II's or 425mm Autocannon II's, and do just as much damage as the drake, but admittedly at shorter range. Or fit an armor tank that's weaker then the drakes, but do more damage and have room for EWAR.
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Scraqp
Advocates
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Posted - 2007.05.19 08:20:00 -
[8]
stop these ridiculous drake posts.
they are going to be nerfed and 142427828462 posts/topics wont stop that. period.
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king jks
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.19 08:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Meeat
These are the ONLY 2 ships that can actually passive tank.
Rattlesnake/Scorpion can field a wicked passive tank too.
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Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.19 08:44:00 -
[10]
What are all these "zomg no nerf passive" threads about? 15% less shield regen still makes you come off with enough shield regen/second to field a really wicked tank, it's not like the ship was "nerfed to oblivion" or anything...
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Lab Ratta
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Posted - 2007.05.19 08:51:00 -
[11]
yes why should anyone fly anything other than a gunshp with an active tank.
Just nerf everything until that is all that is viable and then everyone will start the game knowing exacly what they have to fly to be successful and not have to do anything like think for themselves or try a new thing because all balancing is for gun-ships with active tanks and everyhing else is too be nerfed.
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Boomhaur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.19 09:24:00 -
[12]
As a Drake pilot running lv4's I can tell you there are other ships that can passive tank, there just not as popular. The Drake though is pretty popular for passive tanking due to the fact that it is a missile boat an thus doesnt need to worry bout range as much as other ships using turrents. Just look at the Ferfox I believe it was called, that has been around a long time it has a strong passive tank if I remember correctly but you never heard people talking about it since you had to worry about range and a few other things instead of 1)Lock Target 2) Fire
But just to throw out my opinion I dont think the Drake needs a nerf, since it has no bite. It's just a big brick wall with someone on top shooting rubber bands at the other ships.
The Myridon on the other hand sounds a bit powerful, but I rather not comment on that ship if it needs a nerf since I have never flown one but the looks of it an its potential for its DPS capability is nice to say the least while still holding a tank.
Dude that Scammer just ninja'ed that Carebare's wallet!! |
Lab Ratta
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Posted - 2007.05.19 09:50:00 -
[13]
I agree if you fly a Drake you know that it will take you longer to do missions cause the other ships can deal out much more damage faster than a Drake with a passive tank. That is what is already balancing this ship
the fact that you give up all mid slots and low slots and rig slots for your tank.
No EW, no damage mods, no RoF mods
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.19 10:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Boomhaur
The Drake though is pretty popular for passive tanking due to the fact that it is a missile boat an thus doesnt need to worry bout range as much as other ships using turrents. Just look at the Ferfox I believe it was called, that has been around a long time it has a strong passive tank if I remember correctly but you never heard people talking about it since you had to worry about range and a few other things instead of 1)Lock Target 2) Fire
It's more to do with missiles not requiring any cap to fire. Railguns on the other hand have a pretty high cap drain, a passive tank setup would not be able to sustain firing for long.
A passive tank takes up so many slots it leaves little options for ewar/scrambling/propulsion, and sacrifices damage output too. It's hardly imbalanced the way nano setup battleships used to be. Just a case of a setup focussing only on one thing at the expense of others. But when the wah-wah crowd speaks, CCP takes notice.
__________
If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
BekStorm
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Posted - 2007.05.19 10:17:00 -
[15]
Get out
No, really.
Get out of my intertubez
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.05.19 10:24:00 -
[16]
bc's always was good at passive tanks... And battleships sux at it in comparison - I hope the nerf is pretty balanced though I would prefer ccp taking a closer look at the myrmidon first.
-
I'm a nice guy!!
and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing... |
Meeat
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Posted - 2007.05.19 10:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: king jks
Originally by: Meeat
These are the ONLY 2 ships that can actually passive tank.
Rattlesnake/Scorpion can field a wicked passive tank too.
Please share what you are smoking because these can never achieve a passive tank worth mentioning to tank more than a sack of butterflies.
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Lab Ratta
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Posted - 2007.05.19 11:20:00 -
[18]
would really like to see a change that did make the Drake a better passive than the Myrm just for the simple fact that no race should be better at shields than Caldari.
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Priest Valour
Amarr
Ramdon Industries corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.19 11:33:00 -
[19]
I don't see the problem, just migrate to a Drake. It will be a bit less of a challenge but it will get the job done faster.
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Oz Masema
Sune-ku
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Posted - 2007.05.19 11:43:00 -
[20]
oh didums. look, the drakes tank is to powerful, regardless of its lack of dps. increasing the shield recharge time will make the tank less uber, but the ship will still be good. stop crying.
oh and i fly a drake almost exclusively
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.19 11:44:00 -
[21]
Drake is okay, needs a slight passive tank nerf.
Problem with myrmidon is it fields battleship sized weapons (HEAVY drones) with battleship class bonuses in addition to a sick tank.
Originally by: welsh wizard
You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.05.19 12:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Meeat
Originally by: king jks
Originally by: Meeat
These are the ONLY 2 ships that can actually passive tank.
Rattlesnake/Scorpion can field a wicked passive tank too.
Please share what you are smoking because these can never achieve a passive tank worth mentioning to tank more than a sack of butterflies.
You know, that's the second time you make an erroneus claim in this thread. And with such zeal too.
tsk tsk.
Passive Rattlesnake, fitted with the usual:
SPR2's in the lows, 3 Extenders and 3 invuls in the mids. (you need one Nos to power the invuls.)
That gives a decent buffer, good resists and 348 sh/s regen.
Fit 1 extender and 2 Rechargers and you get 359 sh/s.
Use just 1x Invul, 1x extender and 3x Recharger to get 497 sh/s regen.
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Agalantiri
Caldari
Deadworlds Infrastructure Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.19 12:35:00 -
[23]
While I for one wouldn't enjoy a nerf to the Drake, it is true, but there is not much that one can do about it once the devs have set their minds upon it.
However, I agree with a previous post saying that Gallente shouldn't be able to fit a better shield regen than the Caldari. Such a thing is horribly wrong. A race that both thematically and sttistically relies upon shields should have the advantages in them. Especially seeing that the Amarr have a higher base resist on their shields than the caldari. However, they are Khanid and apparently have the best generators outside Caldari space...
What I would like to see are lower recharge base rates for Caldari ships than others, in comparison to others of their class (certain Minmatar shield tanks exempted), especially since the advent of SPR's make those Gallente lows so damn effective.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.05.19 12:53:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Pottsey on 19/05/2007 12:52:33
öWhat I would like to see are lower recharge base rates for Caldari ships than others, in comparison to others of their class (certain Minmatar shield tanks exempted), especially since the advent of SPR's make those Gallente lows so damn effective.ö
Caldari shouldnÆt have a faster shield recharge then Gallente. What they should have are higher hitpoints while Gallente have the faster recharge but lower hitpoints. Passive tanking bonu's have been striped from all but 1 ship.
ôwould really like to see a change that did make the Drake a better passive than the Myrm just for the simple fact that no race should be better at shields than Caldari.ö
Why is that? ItÆs not in the storyline. Why should Caldari be the best as all forms of shield tanking it makes no sense either from a gameplay point of view or role-play/game history point of view.
ôHowever, I agree with a previous post saying that Gallente shouldn't be able to fit a better shield regen than the Caldari. Such a thing is horribly wrong.ö
Why is it wrong. Gallente invited passive tanking, hold all the records for it and did it for years longer then Caldari. So why is it wrong again?
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Jacob Holland
Gallente
FIRMA
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Posted - 2007.05.19 15:34:00 -
[25]
As Pottsey stated, Caldari aren't "The Best at all forms of shield tanking ever" The Gallente have always had better passive tanks.
The Caldari are much better at Active tanking and there aren't many Caldari ships which can passive tank well beyond the Drake.
The upcoming Nerf to Battlecruiser Shield Recharge is not in any way excessive, it won't stop the Drake having an "overpowered" tank. It might just bring the Drake's tank down however to the point that its Passive Tank doesn't beat the Raven's Active Tank.
Of course the option still exists to mount an active tank on the Drake... Doing so will even free up low slots for BCUs...
The Myrmidon is another matter - the fact that is Drone Bonus effects Heavy Drones and therefore puts it on the same damage output as the Dominix is a little over the top, Having never particularly considered its passive tank I won't comment on that. Drones however keep being pigeon-holed, "Heavy Drones are Battleship weapons"...etc, this is a somewhat simplistic approach and neglects the fact that (prior to the drone nerf) the Imicus, a frigate noone would suggest was overpowered in any way, could field one.
If Heavy Drones truely are BS weapons then I would suggest that other modules could be considered in the same way, Large Shield Extenders for example, Large Shield Boosters...
I would however suggest that the Myrmidon would benefit from having its Drone Bonus changed to a 20% damage and Hitpoints for Light and Medium drones or a Drone Bay Capacity bonus - thus reducing its damage output to a level about halfway between the Vexor/Arbitrator and the Dominix but allowing it suffient spare drones that it isn't crippled as soon as one drone is shot down.
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Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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pandymen
Caldari
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.19 16:18:00 -
[26]
Can someone link to the devblog/whatever that indicates the upcoming shield regen nerf?
I have a drake atm, and it's tank is more than capable of lowsec/0.0 ratting and lvl III missions. Lvl IV missions just take waaaay too long to complete if you want to have a tank that can withstand the constant barrage thrown at you. That's why I really don't understand the big deal. Yeah, it has a good tank, but a drake can hardly break a 1.5 mil bounty bs tank. It takes 10 minutes and a crapload of missiles to mow a single BS down because you can't fit any damage mods.
Despite the awesome overpoweredness of the drake, I will be moving to a raven so I can actually rat and mission more quickly.
What I don't understand is why people are so against the drake. The only reason someone should really be ****ed off about the drake is if it is a total pwnmobile in pvp. Otherwise, what do you care that I complete lvl IV missions in a battlecruiser? If you haven't noticed, the drake sucks at solo pvp, because we honestly can't even break tanks on heavy assault ships...much less battleships. Moreover, you probably won't be webbed or scrammed by a drake because it sacrifices precious midslots.
As soon as someone fits Ewar or damage mods on a drake, it's uber tank becomes much much less uber.
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Hypatia Iola
Caldari
Central Defiance
Terror In The System
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Posted - 2007.05.19 16:28:00 -
[27]
wtf is it with these myrm passive tanks? seriously folks use your frigin bonuses, tank armor, and stay away from my ONLY good thing
friggin gallente
I represent only my own views, they just happen to be the right ones. |
Jacob Holland
Gallente
FIRMA
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Posted - 2007.05.19 16:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: pandymen
Can someone link to the devblog/whatever that indicates the upcoming shield regen nerf?
Not a DevBlog, current version on Sisi.
Originally by: pandymen
What I don't understand is why people are so against the drake. The only reason someone should really be ****ed off about the drake is if it is a total pwnmobile in pvp. Otherwise, what do you care that I complete lvl IV missions in a battlecruiser? If you haven't noticed, the drake sucks at solo pvp, because we honestly can't even break tanks on heavy assault ships...much less battleships. Moreover, you probably won't be webbed or scrammed by a drake because it sacrifices precious midslots.
Oh really? Can't break HAC tanks?
I've lost several Deimoses to Drakes on Sisi (I've killed a couple but my gunnery skills aren't up to the Deimos yet). Granted I could have warped out but breaking the Drake's tank whilst also trying to tank its damage left me bereft of capacitor on too many occasions to suggest that a Drake isn't capable of breaking tanks.
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Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.05.19 17:14:00 -
[29]
The thing witht he Drakes passive tank is that it is to powerfull for what passive tank were intended. Inf act i belive a passive tank ona drake is strongert then an active tank. And it's suposed to be the other way around. Plus not to mention that 1 on 1 the drake seems to overpower every other BC without a problem. Plus the drake can tank 3 BSs by it self i dont think BCs were emnt to be able to tank BSs like that either.
0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents |
Arushia
Nova Labs
Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.05.20 08:44:00 -
[30]
Why are people complaining that a ship which is made to armor-tank (Myrmidon) is getting its shields nerfed. You know CCP didn't mean it to be a shield-tanker. Why are you surprised when they try to make you actually use its armor tanking bonus?
Nova Labs and Empire Research |
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