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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:44:00 -
[1]
Ok this is gonna be long so take a comfortable seat.
This is about changing the way or rather the tools alliances have to policing their sovereign space. Currently the only way they have to police it is to just fire on everything that isn't blue. And doing that might keep undesirables away it doesn't encourage desirable people to come over. And how are they supposed to tell the difference? Their their is the No red don't shoot method which allows for other people to come in but you never know who might turn on ya in a second. So it's evident that the proper game mechanics are currently missing for one to police their space. And this is my Idea of what needs to be added and/or changed for that to happen. Alliance/corporation leadership or representatives should give their opinion on this since i am neither and might be venturing were i might not have sufficient knowledge on the matter.
Anyway here goes and I'll make the first clarification.
Sovereign space refers to who has system sovereignty on the in-game Map view.
Political sovereignty refers to who the space belongs to politically.
Example Xelas is sovereign of their systems they claim. How ever BOB is the alliance that has political sovereignty over the space in question.
Sorta like one is the country and the other is one of the provinces.
THE POLICING
The alliance needs a way to allow anyone into their space but keep those they want out out. And for that the sovereign alliance will need the power to act as CONCORD does in empire. Those are Gate and station Guns but in addition also add Belt and complex Guns as well. They also need a way to be able to respond to player taking hostile action withing their space.
Gate Guns & Station Guns:
The sentries on each Gate or station grid should have 2 levels of setting. Setting with Standings and settings with security Status. Of course Standings are have priority over security status.
Example: Grid is set at standing lvl2+ Never open fire, lvl1 to lvl0 fire only Criminals, lvl-1+ Always fire. Means if you have an ally at +4 standing the gate guns will never fire at him even if he fires at neutrals. If someone with a 0 standing shoots at someone else then the gate guns will start shooting at him since he will now be flagged as a global criminal. And if someone with -1 standing even comes into system he gets shot at without warning.
This will help to control piracy which i fell is a major factor for the NBSI policy.
Asteroid & Plex Bases:
These should work like Station and Gate guns only once again you might wanna set those on different setting for you might want to reserve certain belts or Ice Fields for alliance and corporation members only. After all you do need that ice for you POS and CAPS. You don't wanna let just anyone mine it out and be forced to buy it later on. And for complexes you don't want anyone running your plex. Which is why the base plexes should block the acceleration gate to unauthorized personnel and fire upon them as well.
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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:45:00 -
[2]
Responding to Illegal actions:
This is were the sovereign alliance gets the ability to respond to any hostile actions Taken within their space. global criminals that get flagged with appear on the overview of alliance members who can then simply click "warp to" to warp directly upon the offender for as long as the criminal remains flagged. Meaning it doesn't matter where he run the sovereign alliance will always be able to get to him immediately. This ability should become only available at the purchase of a security contract with CONCORD that has to be renewed every month. Of course the ISK cost should be substantial but not over the top. When a security contract is purchased CONCORD will give you and amount of patrol ships equal to the number of systems in the constellation. How ever they will not ever intervene they r only there to observe and provide the alliance with the payed contract. Also one should note that to be able to purchase this contract the alliance needs to have sovereignty over the whole constellation. which can be achieved with having and outpost in the constellation or having the majority of system under claim plus a special POS structure that claims the whole Constellation. So individual alliances that are cooperating with each other will want to stay out of each others constellations but still allowed to live in the same region without any problems.
Outsiders POS and small player owned structures:
The alliance should be able to sell sell Starbase charters to outside alliances/corporations that might want to setup a base of operation there. The sovereign alliance should be able to control the price based on the security status and set a max amount that can be purchased by any 1 corporation/alliance per day/week/month etc. So that people can't stock pile up on the charters. The rest of the charter system should work like it does in empire. The POS will not claim any sovereignty and if the POS should run out of charters it will simply shut down.
Allies, Neutrals and Enemies:
Of course one will want to give Allies the power to help control their space to some extent. And to allow neutral targets to freely engage enemies without being flagged. And this will require setting for Standings in the whole system. What i mean by that if ti is not clear is that. If you have allies in your system we will call them blues, and a neutral corporation to you but hostile to your allies comes in and start shootting at your allies you'd want your allies to be able to respond and return fire upon their enemy. essentially you wanna give them freedom of action so they can be safe in your space like they are in theirs. And 2nd you might want to give Neutral the ability to engage you enemies in your space without consequences. I mean why would you want to stop neutrals from killing your enemy in the first place.
Billboards:
Yes Billboards!!! Why? Because people coming to your constellation will want and need to know what system they can go in without being auto fired upon by the gate guns, What belts they can Rat mine in. As well as basic Tax rates on Sales, bounty etc. (more on that in the economic section). The Billboard should display The alliance logo as well at the faces/names/alliance/corps of hostiles that are free-game withing you space. Basically the enemies you want to allow anyone who can use you space to fire upon without restrictions.
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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:46:00 -
[3]
Asteroid and complex bases tech Talk:
Basically the Bases should come in 3 sizes, small, medium and large. Each base should have a set amount PG CPU etc basically like normal bases. Only these can be custom fitted like ships are and use ship modules in their fitting. Why because these structure are supposed to be solitary on their grid. A Large Bases should require 8 or so BSs to take down, a Medium about 4 and 1 or 2 BS for a small. The ability to fit module on the base should be limited by the setup's player skills. Dunno if that is a good idea since I have no clue how exactly skills work with structures. someone that has very good knowledge on this matter should write this part for me. So I'll just leave it at this.
Outpost docking & POS hostility:
Those should remain as they are. You might want to allow people to fly, rat or mine in your space. But you might not want them to be able to dock or EYEBALL your POSs. :D Also should a person have had docking rights in you outposts and now they are a hostile enemy you should be able to jettison them outside of your station. In what ever they might have active for a ship at the time.
WAR!!!!:
This is where i think one of the biggest changes will occur since now you will have to declare war upon your enemy in order for you to attack them in their space and not lose security standing and for the enemy to not be able to warp to you when your trying to conduct fleet OPS int their space to take it over. Basically with a war declaration CONCORD will not give the sovereign alliance the location of you ships withing their space. And to make the WARDEC work both way the attacked alliance will have to declare WAR back if they want to go into enemy space and not have CONCORD reveal their ship positions to the enemy.
Way it should probably work. 0.0 ally DECing 0.0 should be free innitially. How ever to ensure that allys don't abuse this to just be able to go do roaming gangs without consequence after a few days if the war dec is not returned the dec will be auto-dropped. And will be followed by a grace period of a days or 2 before the DEC can be taken back up. Should a WARDEC be returned the wardec will remain permanent until both parties agree to drop it. EI if you want a war you had better be game for it since you are in for the long run.
Now if and empire ally/corp wardecs a 0.0 ally/corp the war will have a cost just like normal empire cost. Both sides will be able to shoot each other inside the ally's space and inside empire. If a 0.0 ally/corp WARDECs an empire ally/corp its the same thing. The war will cost and fighting can occur in the allys space and in empire.
This pretty much concludes the POLICING section.
THE ECONOMICAL CONTROL
Well it is after all you space and your outpost so you might not want to allow people to just come in and live like KINGs on your back right. So you need powers to control the market and place your TAX arm around the gains that people make in your space.
Once again the of station services, bounty, agent rewards etc should all have a TAX or cost to them which the amount is based once again on the Standing. You might also want to restrict the sale of some items on the market of your station to people with only a certain Standing as well. Confused yet? Don't Worry I'll explain.
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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:47:00 -
[4]
Outpost Services FEES:
Repair: Give people with +5 standing a repair bill of 1ISK per HP, but Give a 0 standing person a bill of 10ISK per HP. And deny the service to those with -0.5 standing
Building slot: Same thing you might want to make the price of the slot Vary based on the standing
Research: Same again
Refining: Here it is a % that is set of how much minerals the alliance will keep from the person who refined their mins in the outpost. This should also be customisable base on the standings.
Offices & Headquarters: should work like in NPC stations but once again prise varies based on standings. This is also were Charters should be purchased and controlled.
Clones and Jump clones: Well clones shouldn't be touched them selves. At the most their should be a TAX fee to setting up and purchasing a clone at your station. And the ability to view all jump clones and have them moved elsewhere if they belong to an enemy or whats not. I think that is already in place.
Rat bounties TAX:
Well the people are in your space and they are killing off your rats well how about that? Well how about Taxing them on the bounties of each rat they kill inside your sovereign space. Once again you should be able to set the % to different levels based on the standing. Also this Tax should be applied before the corp tax of the person in question.
IE. mister neutral is ratting he kill a 1,000,000ISK bounty RAT. The sovereign alliance gets 100,000 right there. So the neutral is left with 900,000, Now his corporation has a 10% tax rate to so it takes 90000 which leaves our ratter with 810000ISK.
Market TAX:
Well people will use the markets provided by your outpost as well so you'll want your lions share of that as well. The first thing that need to be done is the removal of the NPC market TAX here. In 0.0 it's our space our market not the commerces coalition NPC thingy. So you should be able to set you own TAX rate once again Based off of standing.
Market control of what is sold to who:
This is probably the most important aspect. The alliance should be able to restrict the selling of certain items on the market to certain people. EI the alliance might allow the sell of T1 ships all the up to BCs to 0 standing players. But restrict the selling of BSs and T2 ships to players that have +4 standings only. This needs to be and outpost controlled feature. So that a person outside of the sovereign alliance does not come in and start selling T2 ships to 0 standing people. If he puts up t2 ships for sale in your station these ships will only be available to purchase by people with the appropriate standing level. Each individual item should be limited in this way. how ever contracts should not be interfered with and not have sell restrictions but they will be TAXED at the market rate.
This should conclude the ECONOMIC CONTROL section.
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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.05.19 06:47:00 -
[5]
The NPC AGENTS:
The talk has been around for a while now about having NPC agent sin 0.0 space and recently the news of adding levels 5 through 10 of agents have had some wondering were they could go? Well 0.0 player owned stations could be home to them. How ever they should be static agents that remain there for ever and ever. IE if the station changes hand the agent will leave. If the station owners standing with the NPC agents corporation or faction drops to low he might also leave. Also if the alliance has bad standing with eh corporation they want and agent to come setup shop in their station is to low they will have to pay for having one. And the agent will have to be run a certain minimum of times to make the standing go up high enough for him to remain or he will leave and the alliance wont be able to ask for a new agent for a certain period of time. So the better the standing with the NPC corp in question the higher quality and higher level agents you will be able to get and come setup shop in your station. The cheaper they'll be to keep to. But the worst the standing the lower the quality and and level of the agent and the more costly to keep one around.
Now you'll maybe want to restrict which agents people can use base don their standing with you. So now for people to use the agent they'll need the required standing the agents NPC corp and with the owners of the station the agent is operating from.
And wow that is it for NPC AGENTS, guest their wasn't much here to say.
Anyway making all of the following changes should greatly encourage 0.0 development for all. Of course I only talked about sovereign space this whole time. 0.0 space that isn't claimed is still free game an as lawless and it currently is. How ever some alliances might have political claim to the space in question and might blow you away if you put up POS near their space.
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Kramer Verone
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.19 07:04:00 -
[6]
some neato ideas on 0.0 market, keep working at it.
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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.05.19 21:19:00 -
[7]
Precision on POS warfare due to constelation claim. Adn Wardec generation due to a hostile POS being placed up.
So here we ahve GREED alliance living peacfully int her constalation ofve 7 star systems. They have 4 systems with POSs claming soverignty. One of those system has an outpost in it. So by having 50% + 1 ofve the systems under control and having no other groups claming one of the systems in the constelation Their outpost claims soverignty over the whole constelation. They have a concord securaty certificate so they are killing of pirates that attack people in their space.
Green soverignty 1
Now RED alliance (no reference to in-game alliances) Wants to come in and take over their space. They could WARDEC directly but if the other side dosn't WARDEC back it wont whole. So they need to force an auto WARDEC by taking hostile takeover actions. What do they do they put in their own POS into anyone ofve the constelations systems. If RED puts their POS into a GREEN system that does not have a GREEN SOV claming POS the system will turn neutral. If the RED POS is claiming SOV on it's own in the empty system soverignty will change to RED. Like in the picture below. If RED puts POS into a system were GREEN POS are alredy claming standard SOV system applies.
GREEN SOV 2
Now RED has taken very hostile actions towards, so CONCORD seing that RED alliance is seriously declaring WAR an automatic WARDEC is issued and immediately implimented on REDs behaf. And for as long as RED has a POS in GREEN space the WARDEC will hold. Now Fromt hat point CONCORD will give GREEN 48 or 72 (communaty should decide) hours to eliminate The RED POS before the security contract is droped. During that period of time CONCORD will not give location ofve RED alliance members, but will continue to give locations of global criminal. If GREEN does not manage to take out the POSs within the allowed time period Constelation Soverignty will drop and only system will soverignty claiming POS will remain GREEN. From this point soverignty warfare continues as normal.
GREEN SOV 3
Now Should GREEN manage to remove all of REDs POSs from their space within the allowed time frame then soverignty will return to GREEN and the WARDEC will be autodroped in 24 hours if GREEN has not WARDEC RED back in return. Should it Take longer then the allowed time frame to remove the POSs and GREEN loses constelation control, then control of the constelation will only return in 48 to 72 hours from the last RED POS destruction. The WARDEC will also be droped once control returns to GREEN. When control return GREEN will be capable of repurchasing a security contract with CONCORD.
PS if their is and art otehr there that would like to make better visual images then mine please do. I will put them in and give you credit for them.
0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents |
Torothanax
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Posted - 2007.06.06 02:18:00 -
[8]
I honestly havn't read all of this yet, but there are some good idea's in here. Ya might break it up into smaller sections so that it's not so daunting at frist glance. ^^
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
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Posted - 2007.06.06 05:17:00 -
[9]
More player control.. I second that..
I do however think this should be general, and also be relevant in empire. Just the economical part not the aggressions. Players hould be able to lease npc facilities and control these. Also adding docking fees and jumping fees and balancing these according to standings or sec status.
The more players are given control of the more dynamic the game becomes.
On an end note I truly believe that all space should be CONCORD patrolled, the only dif should be response times and patroling times. Thus a system with sec 1.0 is instant patrol call, maybe 1 minute till appearance, and 5 minutes to leave after the space has cleared, in 0.0 this should be a lot longer maybe something like 30 minutes to 1 hour to appear.. The balance is what is relevant, and this to shift gate campes around more, and thus making them hunt their prey. This would mean more people would risk venturing into low sec and 0.0..
Adding this to the OPs policing would open up the entire universe more imo..
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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.06.06 05:21:00 -
[10]
Glad you like it. Now tell you friend your corp mate, leaders and so so on. The more people that find these ideas good and give their opinions the more likely CCP is to give notice to this.
0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents |
Byson1
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Posted - 2007.06.09 22:19:00 -
[11]
I like your train of thought..
Give pvpers the chance.. but also those who arent in it for wars a footing...
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Kleiftan
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Posted - 2007.06.19 13:50:00 -
[12]
Very good ideas. I hope they get implemented. 
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EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.06.19 13:54:00 -
[13]
Well i know for one thing that their new way soverignty works is almost a copy paste of my idea + addons. But theirs is better.
0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents |
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.19 14:00:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 19/06/2007 13:59:57
Theri new sovereignty is probably based on some old ideas actually.
Things like these have been kicked about for at least a year or two already.
Check for example my old blog link in my sig for some thought that are about a year and a half old by now. You'll recognise some stuff in that too, and some of it wasn't thought of by me for the first time either.
In general however, CCP seems to not be a big fan of static AI-controlled defenses. They like you to get your hand dirty by doing the shotty work yourself too, not just by building stuff that does it for you. I don't actually expect any strong sentry or NPC ship based defenses to come to 0.0 space ever myself. You'll see other tools that allow you to do some of those tasks better yourself tho, but without player effort and players organising themselves there won't be any gains, that's one basic thing you'll see return every time in CCP's actions.
[center]
Old blog |
EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.06.19 14:05:00 -
[15]
Yeah i have a felling that that would be true. But still static defenses could be brought in when certain conditions are met. And of course they can't be killer things like the one in empire and low sec. mostly just guns as powerfull as the ones we have. Just enought to let the person know they aren't welcomed here and ti would be best to turn around.
0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents |
pulsarite
Gallente
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.25 21:06:00 -
[16]
Cool ideas, especially the billboard idea 
If you have noticed this notice then you will notice that this notice should not be noticed.
Alex Karp > "You are a maniac puls." |
Tarquin Tarquinius
Gallente
Escorts of Eve
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Posted - 2007.06.25 23:31:00 -
[17]
Good ideas. Part of the reason I don't go into 0.0 is becasue I don't trust the alliances to not kill me, even if they say they won't.
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0.0 System Renaming? |
Tibrius Archer
Kurai-Komichi
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.27 17:48:00 -
[18]
I like it up until you said guns around plexs and asteriod belts. Some guy in another discussion got torn down for saying a similar thing. I agreed with those doing the tearing. I hate when people in a alliance winge about people mining "their space" or people running "their plex's" if you claim a region you must fight for it. Its rediculous to limit the game like this. 0.0 should be the wild west not just a place for a few who have enough isk to afford dreads.
Control should be limited because we all pay the same for eve. Even sir molle pays the same amount as me as does a 3week n00b who is disapointed that his lasers on a thorax don't do enough damage. Giving alliances more and more power means that your getting half a game if you don't join them.
Its already like that to a certain extent. No alliance no good ores, no alliance no gas cloud harvesting, no alliance no reserach tool plexs... The Devs should stop spending ALL there time working on things like stealth bombers & Dreads and so on as there all a bonus to allaince people.
Things devs should spend time on... T2 battleships another T1 battleship. More industry that DOES NOT completly rely on 0.0 plexs or 0.0 ores in anyway. More asteriods in empire there is a cronic shortage of asteriods. Also stop 0.0 rats from dropping crazy amounts of minerals and nerf the drone region. People should mine for dreads not NPC for them.
Please devs I know you all love EvE and no doubt have active alts in big allainces (problaby bob) and enjoy alliance wars. But this game is still a RPG at heart its not Nexus :The jupiter incident or Homeworld 2 so enough with the allaince fighting.
The average 6 month old char who has not won in the T2 lottery trying to industrialise is getting annoyed right now.
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"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
EadTaes
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.06.28 13:06:00 -
[19]
I can totally agree that belt and plex gun-outpost might not be what everyone wants. And i agree with you argument on the basis that its the alliance it self that should actively defend it's territory. How ever for them to open their territory and open it up for people from empire not in alliance to come down to 0.0. Those were just an initial toll to help with that. This idea is still a pretty rough idea and if you'd like to help me refine it you more then welcomed to.
0.0 Policing, Econnomic Control & NPC Agents |
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