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JaiMaster	Posted - 2004.01.07 07:07:00 - [1] Edited by: JaiMaster on 07/01/2004 08:30:02 This post is to EV members, and specifically con mal. It will also highlight how EV treats its membership and the maturity level of its leadership, to any non-EV player who is wasting his or her time reading this post. First off, to Con Mal thank you for booting me simply because you lost an argument with me in corp chat. To then label me a mineral thief for not turning in my own minerals at ludicrous corp prices and refusing to mine scordite for the corperation (an odd proposal, since im not in the mining wing) is just insane. Your bio picture is of a full grown man holding a child. Im sure most of the membership will be stunned to learn you are actually the child in that picture. To the membership - glad to have played with you. I was planning to leave corp shortly anyway, as testing cruisers against castor NPC spawns isnt my idea of a good time. Intead I was booted for daring to question the corps mineral and ore prices and policy (see the chatlog below). Apparantly the proposition that members should not waste time mining scordite is not what the slave drivers wanted to hear NB - the following log, out of some misguided sense of respect to EV to protect corperate information, has had names of systems and unrelated discussion removed. ------------------------------------------------------------ Channelname: Corp Listener: JaiMaster Session started: 2004.01.07 01:44:52 ------------------------------------------------------------ [ 2004.01.07 05:16:24 ] Apophis Elann > ATTENTION CORP! WE are desperate for ***. Please get us * in *! [ 2004.01.07 05:17:17 ] JaiMaster > i can get you * from * at * / unit [ 2004.01.07 05:17:19 ] JaiMaster > heh [ 2004.01.07 05:17:34 ] Apophis Elann > Awesome! just haul it down! [ 2004.01.07 05:17:42 ] JaiMaster > eh id have to buy it :) [ 2004.01.07 05:17:47 ] JaiMaster > its on the market [ 2004.01.07 05:18:04 ] Apophis Elann > well, corp buy is * for * [ 2004.01.07 05:18:05 ] Con'Mal > is there a better price ? [ 2004.01.07 05:18:11 ] Con'Mal > with decent quantity [ 2004.01.07 05:18:14 ] Enraku Reynolt > its only * [ 2004.01.07 05:18:25 ] Apophis Elann > that's nothing [ 2004.01.07 05:18:41 ] Apophis Elann > we have enough minerals to build * BS sitting here [ 2004.01.07 05:18:45 ] Apophis Elann > but no * [ 2004.01.07 05:18:59 ] JaiMaster > you need more reactive buy orders [ 2004.01.07 05:19:07 ] Red Six > where is here? [ 2004.01.07 05:19:15 ] Con'Mal > no we dont jai [ 2004.01.07 05:19:20 ] JaiMaster > if the corp runs out of *, put buy orders for a mil * and * at 5/5 full price and watch everyone in the game fill them [ 2004.01.07 05:19:28 ] Con'Mal > since there isnt iso giving roids in home system [ 2004.01.07 05:19:47 ] Con'Mal > we dont make isk if we buy at full price [ 2004.01.07 05:20:00 ] JaiMaster > you dont make isk if you are missing 1 mineral [ 2004.01.07 05:20:03 ] Con'Mal > and if we did our member prices would rise [ 2004.01.07 05:20:05 ] ChroNicoN > sid i could refine some of the tech2 items if we need it desperatly [ 2004.01.07 05:20:19 ] ChroNicoN > how much total needed? [ 2004.01.07 05:20:30 ] Con'Mal > jai we can get * tonight if need be [ 2004.01.07 05:20:34 ] Apophis Elann > don't refine anything that is important, [ 2004.01.07 05:20:39 ] ChroNicoN > ok [ 2004.01.07 05:20:43 ] Apophis Elann > but we need * in * [ 2004.01.07 05:20:46 ] Red Six > umm where is here? [ 2004.01.07 05:20:47 ] Con'Mal > we were asking members to put forth an effort for the betterment of all [ 2004.01.07 05:20:53 ] Red Six > ok [ 2004.01.07 05:21:03 ] Apophis Elann > to make a single BS it's like * in * [ 2004.01.07 05:21:22 ] JaiMaster > more like * [ 2004.01.07 05:21:27 ] JaiMaster > :) [ 2004.01.07 05:21:33 ] Red Six > it's closer to * iso [ 2004.01.07 05:22:19 ] JaiMaster > i dont see why the corp was never prepared to accept that for example trit is worth more than its npc price in stain [ 2004.01.07 05:22:22 ] Red Six > sorry meant *** [ 2004.01.07 05:22:49 ] Apophis Elann > huh? [ 2004.01.07 05:22:52 ] Con'Mal > only to supply our enemiies [ 2004.01.07 05:23:00 ] Con'Mal > not to our alliance friends [ 2004.01.07 05:23:18 ] Con'Mal > we dont overcharge our firneds or members [ 2004.01.07 05:24:07 ] JaiMaster > its not a matter of overcharging, its a matter of being a waste of time mining veld in stain when you could mine crokite, sell the zyd at 3000 in empire, then pay someone to haul trit down and pay him 2 isk for it back in stain [ 2004.01.07 05:24:33 ] Con'Mal > we are about more than that [ 2004.01.07 05:24:36 ] Con'Mal > always have been [ 2004.01.07 05:24:45 ] Con'Mal > and there isnt zyd in stain [ 2004.01.07 05:24:48 ] Apophis Elann > Jai [ 2004.01.07 05:25:03 ] Con'Mal > we have a proven business p ------- Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end... Your end.
JaiMaster	Posted - 2004.01.07 07:08:00 - [2] Edited by: JaiMaster on 07/01/2004 08:32:23 Edited by: JaiMaster on 07/01/2004 08:31:43 [ 2004.01.07 05:25:19 ] Apophis Elann > if anyone in corp is selling minerals/ore outside of corp why do we need them in our corp? [ 2004.01.07 05:25:54 ] JaiMaster > a haul of crokite is 3m credits... a haul of veldspar is 170k... so you increase efficiency 10 fold [ 2004.01.07 05:25:57 ] JaiMaster > but who cares eh [ 2004.01.07 05:26:16 ] JaiMaster > what ores are left in stain? why did the gms *** the region over so bad? [ 2004.01.07 05:26:38 ] Apophis Elann > as I said Jai? are you selling minerals in empire? [ 2004.01.07 05:26:47 ] JaiMaster > no, im buying minerals in empire [ 2004.01.07 05:26:55 ] Apophis Elann > the game is wehat it is Jai [ 2004.01.07 05:27:08 ] Apophis Elann > yes we got screwed in Stain [ 2004.01.07 05:27:20 ] JaiMaster > ive got a manufacturing operation in * because its the only way ill ever get the funds for a battleship [ 2004.01.07 05:27:26 ] Apophis Elann > and there is little reason to mine low end mins in 0.0 space [ 2004.01.07 05:27:30 ] Apophis Elann > BUT [ 2004.01.07 05:27:39 ] Apophis Elann > sometimes the corp needs those mins [ 2004.01.07 05:27:47 ] Apophis Elann > what? [ 2004.01.07 05:27:53 ] Apophis Elann > are you kidding me? [ 2004.01.07 05:28:06 ] JaiMaster > about what? [ 2004.01.07 05:28:11 ] Apophis Elann > the fastest way to get into a BS is by mining Scordite in * [ 2004.01.07 05:28:16 ] JaiMaster > LOL [ 2004.01.07 05:28:18 ] Apophis Elann > do the freaking math man [ 2004.01.07 05:28:48 ] Apophis Elann > you mine far more isk by mining veld and scordite in our home system [ 2004.01.07 05:29:01 ] Apophis Elann > which means more isk to you [ 2004.01.07 05:29:12 ] Apophis Elann > let me find the post that shows the math [ 2004.01.07 05:29:22 ] ChroNicoN > can we have an official war with * so we can kill em for mining up all the ore in *? :-) [ 2004.01.07 05:29:37 ] JaiMaster > scordite i can fill a hauler every 20 mins give or take, thats 470k to me, or around 400 if i sell to corp [ 2004.01.07 05:29:43 ] JaiMaster > so at best its a mil an hour [ 2004.01.07 05:29:58 ] JaiMaster > so if i put in 120 hours mining ill get a tempest [ 2004.01.07 05:29:59 ] Enraku Reynolt > all day everydy, they got at least 2 indies hauling ore in * [ 2004.01.07 05:30:10 ] ChroNicoN > well it's not always about isk [ 2004.01.07 05:30:42 ] ChroNicoN > if corp needs a certain min then you need to put that 1st [ 2004.01.07 05:31:40 ] JaiMaster > for an hours actual work doing what im doing i can maintain 5 factories for the day and make sure my sell prices are competative [ 2004.01.07 05:32:17 ] Apophis Elann > got bounced, back [ 2004.01.07 05:33:23 ] JaiMaster > if i sell a * and 2 * a day thats 2m profit, and all it took me in real time was setting buy orders for mins, inserting the production, then sell ordering the product... 10 mins for 2m as apposed to an hours mining for a mil of scordite [ 2004.01.07 05:34:00 ] Enraku Reynolt > and thats why i sell missles [ 2004.01.07 05:34:29 ] Enraku Reynolt > buy minerals once a month, and then collect cash [ 2004.01.07 05:34:56 ] JaiMaster > i bought myself a * BPO 2 days ago [ 2004.01.07 05:35:01 ] JaiMaster > those things turn over like made in * [ 2004.01.07 05:35:25 ] Enraku Reynolt > cause the new spawns are killing them like flies [ 2004.01.07 05:35:33 ] JaiMaster > good :) [ 2004.01.07 05:37:13 ] JaiMaster > anyway i think im going to have to leave EV, im in ivory wing and my biggest ship is a rupture, so im dead if i join a wing op [ 2004.01.07 05:37:53 ] Red Six > not true, some of our wing ops will be held in a * system so that cruisers can participate [ 2004.01.07 05:38:32 ] Red Six > those systems are seeing cruisers spawn there [ 2004.01.07 05:42:14 ] JaiMaster > i just cant see myself doing what i joined ev to do :) ivory long enough to get a bb then eventually falcon [ 2004.01.07 05:43:07 ] Red Six > when i go out and PVP i don't ever take out a BB, i use a cruiser [ 2004.01.07 05:43:21 ] JaiMaster > cant join falcon w/o a bb in the hanger though :( [ 2004.01.07 05:43:38 ] JaiMaster > sry, bs in this game [ 2004.01.07 05:44:13 ] Red Six > i understand your terms and prefer BB to be battleship not blackbird [ 2004.01.07 05:44:44 ] Red Six > calling them BS just well sounds wrong [ 2004.01.07 05:45:00 ] JaiMaster > you got that right [ 2004.01.07 05:48:23 ] JaiMaster > and manufacturing / selling stuff in *** can be good fun, watching your wallet flashing all the time or going to sleep with 20m isk and waking up to 65 :) [ 2004.01.07 05:48:42 ] Red Six > lol, yeah it can be fun [ 2004.01.07 05:49:58 ] Zostar > i find it funny that Con'Mal has gone so quiet, his only argument was that the corp has a proven business plan, i find it funny if one of your members seems to ------- Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end... Your end.
JaiMaster	Posted - 2004.01.07 07:09:00 - [3] ing to find out if he has anymore ideas that could help the corp be even better [ 2004.01.07 05:50:23 ] Con'Mal > I am listening [ 2004.01.07 05:50:29 ] Con'Mal > no need to be rude [ 2004.01.07 05:50:35 ] Con'Mal > and i wasnt putting anyone daown [ 2004.01.07 05:50:43 ] Con'Mal > and we make almost a billion a week [ 2004.01.07 05:51:02 ] Con'Mal > not by paying other people noty in the corps more than our members [ 2004.01.07 05:51:11 ] Con'Mal > we make our membership rich first [ 2004.01.07 05:51:14 ] Con'Mal > then the corps [ 2004.01.07 05:51:43 ] Con'Mal > now zostar [ 2004.01.07 05:52:09 ] Con'Mal > did i miss something? [ 2004.01.07 05:52:30 ] Con'Mal > we have built this corps from nothing to the biggest and richest and most envied corps in the game [ 2004.01.07 05:52:37 ] JaiMaster > in some situations our corp pays barely half market value of some ores then asks its members to mine low ores for chickenfeed because we need the cash [ 2004.01.07 05:52:46 ] JaiMaster > er, need the mins* [ 2004.01.07 05:52:59 ] Con'Mal > chicken feed? [ 2004.01.07 05:53:10 ] Con'Mal > then dont mine em jai [ 2004.01.07 05:53:15 ] JaiMaster > i dont. [ 2004.01.07 05:53:21 ] Con'Mal > some people consider the corps to be a concern [ 2004.01.07 05:53:24 ] Con'Mal > not just thier wallets [ 2004.01.07 05:53:55 ] JaiMaster > sigh [ 2004.01.07 05:55:09 ] JaiMaster > this corp has gone to war with other corps just because they matched or beat our scordite buy orders in whatever system we set up in [ 2004.01.07 05:55:23 ] JaiMaster > we rip our own members off and call it solidarity [ 2004.01.07 05:55:37 ] Con'Mal > my god [ 2004.01.07 05:56:00 ] Con'Mal > no one has ever had a problem [ 2004.01.07 05:56:20 ] Con'Mal > we have spent 1000's of hrs making sure everythig is available to you [ 2004.01.07 05:56:22 ] N'Fran D'Larn > Jai, you are worng [ 2004.01.07 05:56:26 ] Con'Mal > i have zero [ 2004.01.07 05:56:36 ] Con'Mal > and now we rip you off? [ 2004.01.07 05:56:58 ] JaiMaster > ok, ill use a straight example [ 2004.01.07 05:57:09 ] Con'Mal > dont bother At which point I was removed by Con'Man from EV. This never made it to corp chat - [ 2004.01.07 05:57:10 ] JaiMaster > let me find the buy price of crokite the corp pays [ 2004.01.07 05:57:52 ] JaiMaster > bugger, its not on the forum anymore [ 2004.01.07 05:58:30 ] JaiMaster > gniess we buy for 748.42. at market current prices, gneiss is worth 1300. [ 2004.01.07 05:58:45 ] JaiMaster > on a 5/5 refine [ 2004.01.07 06:00:01 ] JaiMaster > if the corp is so about its membership, why does the corp make a billion a week off its members? can open, worms everywhere Can open, worms everywhere I would add that there is no private conversations going on behind this, no warnings of "continue arguing and there will be trouble", not even "youve been booted from EV, goodbye". I didnt realise id been booted from EV until around 10 minutes later :) FYI con, I expect full ISK value payout of my EV mineral account. Else that would make you the mineral thief, wouldnt it? ------- Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end... Your end.
TIvian	Posted - 2004.01.07 07:23:00 - [4] Dude, what is it with Stain? and every one in it? Why does Stain and its Corps Treat its memebers so bad? and how is that everyone in Stain has lasted under such lame leadership? JaiMaster, I hope you find a good home. one that will treat you with the respect you deserve. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!!
nails	Posted - 2004.01.07 07:33:00 - [5] You can't oppress people in a video game that not only are they playing for entertainment, but are paying a monthly fee for. hehe ------------------ http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
Nirvy	Posted - 2004.01.07 07:35:00 - [6] Edited by: Nirvy on 07/01/2004 07:38:06 Stain = political cesspool sheesh its just a game, whats with all the oppresion down there? Maybe you should try CA's method? We all get to swear and shout at the DARK LORD OF CURSE on Teamspeak. (He is also caring and willing to talk and listen endlessly, just ask Zelota) Ps this is the best quote. EVER Quote: [ 2004.01.07 05:52:30 ] Con'Mal > we have built this corps from nothing to the biggest and richest and most envied corps in the game Deluded some there EV? Mercenary \| The Azath
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.07 07:57:00 - [7] Edited by: Sequin on 07/01/2004 07:58:07 Stain is stain, EV is not stain just a part of it (Did we forget mass?), there is a distinction...unless EV IS stain, then I missed something along the way O_O And, I really hate people who post private chat logs. But since it appears to be edited, I can't say I hate you. Good show! ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:01:00 - [8] Quote: Edited by: Sequin on 07/01/2004 07:58:07 Stain is stain, EV is not stain just a part of it (Did we forget mass?), there is a distinction...unless EV IS stain, then I missed something along the way O_O And, I really hate people who post private chat logs. But since it appears to be edited, I can't say I hate you. Good show! If Stain was a body, Everlasting Vendetta would be the mouth and Evolution would be the ass. ^_^;; ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:03:00 - [9] Wow, that came from out of left field. Specially considering we're not even in Stain, but that's for another thread. ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
Jael Markinsen	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:05:00 - [10] One word: WOW! Can't wait to see the response on this one!
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:07:00 - [11] I'm sure they'll start off funny from both sides, then degenerate to random flames at each other until it's locked at page 4. ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
Nirvy	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Nirvy on 07/01/2004 08:09:11 Quote: Wow, that came from out of left field. Specially considering we're not even in Stain, but that's for another thread. EV = Everlasting Vendetta Your the only one to mention Evol in this thread. Not sure why your talking about Evol in this thread? Mercenary \| The Azath
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:11:00 - [13] Apart from Jim Raynor who mentioned it a post above him. ....
Nirvy	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:16:00 - [14] Quote: Apart from Jim Raynor who mentioned it a post above him. The only post above sequins rant about Evol not been stain is mine. Mercenary \| The Azath
The Reclaimer	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:20:00 - [15] I'll just sit back with a smile and wait for Josh to gloss this over as per usual.
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:21:00 - [16] Nirvy, I was clearly responding to Raynors (?)attack on us, which came out of no where. Before, I had stated that EV, or Everlasting, was just one member corp of Stain, unless I had missed something. I hope this clears up any murky references in my previous postings. ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
Maven Hollowind	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:22:00 - [17] Edited by: Maven Hollowind on 07/01/2004 08:24:40 Sequin, IÆd think page 3, but there hasnÆt been any response from EV yet, so maybe 4, well see. ;) JaiMaster, Good luck on your search. --- Edit: Never mind, 8 posts since I started reading this postà Prolly make it to page 4.
Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:22:00 - [18] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Sequin on 07/01/2004 07:58:07 Stain is stain, EV is not stain just a part of it (Did we forget mass?), there is a distinction...unless EV IS stain, then I missed something along the way O_O And, I really hate people who post private chat logs. But since it appears to be edited, I can't say I hate you. Good show! If Stain was a body, Everlasting Vendetta would be the mouth and Evolution would be the ass. ^_^;; Quoted for more easy reading. ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.01.07 08:29:00 - [19] If i was EV manager, i would suggest my members to stay from the boards or not boost this topic so it sinks straight to the bottom. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.01.07 09:02:00 - [20] Quote: If i was EV manager, i would suggest my members to stay from the boards or not boost this topic so it sinks straight to the bottom. Well we cant allow that to happen can we since its just to good example of how megacorps are spoiled rotten *Spawn of the Devil*
Tenashi	Posted - 2004.01.07 11:28:00 - [21] still no ev forum squad in sight...guess they`re all busy mining scordite for scraps hehe Everlasting Vendetta - Search
The Reverend	Posted - 2004.01.07 13:31:00 - [22] Bump m0ovie links
Absurd	Posted - 2004.01.07 14:07:00 - [23] I hope EV will be crushed for what they did to you man, I feel sorry for you. You will be contacted shortly and asked for information regarding locations of EV empire troops, Let that person deal out some of your fury towards EV. EV SHALL DIE
Duke Droklar	Posted - 2004.01.07 15:56:00 - [24] What a waste of your memberships time. I won't go into exactly how we manage production but I can assure you our members do not mine CRAP. Our members make anywhere from 2mill(haulers)-5mill(best mining rigs) per hour when we occasionally hold a mining op. Of course we aren't obsessed with making the corp rich at the expense of our members. All we need is enough to fuel our military and occasional BP acquisitions. We encourage members to try their hands at prod/sales or whatever else may trip their trigger. We have always held to the motto "powerful members make for a powerful corp".
Nirvy	Posted - 2004.01.07 16:15:00 - [25] hehe Mercenary \| The Azath
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.07 16:24:00 - [26] OMG, that's 'harrasment' and 'treason'. You just might get banned for four days for suggesting that the sun does not shine out of their behinds. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.07 16:25:00 - [27] BTW: JaiMaster, membership in Killer Clowns is an option. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Alexandra Belani	Posted - 2004.01.07 16:27:00 - [28] Though this is not the way we do things, it makes sense for a corporation to buy at a lower price to make isk... Being part of a corporation, especially one as large as EV, provides a great amount of prestige, protection, and resources. In turn expecting members to participate in helping to make the corp successful is to be expected. Members who are only concerned about their wallets and not ensuring the success of their organization should join a freelance corp or go solo. You complain that you had a problem with the way things were done, and thats fine but it should have been done privately and not by taking pot shots at the managements decisions in front of other corporation members, which I suspect would be the reason for your expulsion. Would you go in front of your entire office and your boss and complain endlessly about the way things were done and then expect not to be fired? I see a huge difference between an honest attempt to voice an opinion and just complaining about the way things are. Obviously you are upset about being kicked out, and I understand that, but the problem I see is if this issue was worth flaming the corporation in public corp chat, why not quit before you got to this point in the first place. In short, I feel badly for what has happened, but I think that EV has every right to ask for contribution from it's members in whatever way works best for them, and that your expulsion was indeed justified. Sorry man. Like this sig? Check out my sig shoppe.. Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr
Skillz	Posted - 2004.01.07 16:31:00 - [29] It's ok to split the difference between ores that are refined with refining 1 and refining efficency 5. That's decent, now Everlasting Vendetta is anything else than decent. Keep on flaming, lamers.
The Reclaimer	Posted - 2004.01.07 16:36:00 - [30] I think somebody has the :magic: hat.

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