Again, as pointed out repeatedly in your previous topic, there is already a warning for this sort of thing.

Something like this that hard-prevents an action has more potential to cause problems than solve them, especially something like this that can be easily solved by simply checking your orders before posting them...

I don't really see how your clumsiness warrants changing the game.

And as it was pointed out there that this warning is useless on many types of orders. And actually causing more troubles than helps.


At first - no one is 100% safe from misstypes, especially when you deal with many orders everyday. And at second - It was written above that this setting won't be active by default - so what are the troubles you're talking about? It'll be only activated by player intentionally.
So if you feel yoursef 100% accurate - you just don't need it. But if you feel a bit clumsy or tired - it might be really helpful.


It's not another warrant. Maybe it wasn't stated clearly - but this setting won't let you set(or change) order that is X% distinguished from the topmost on the market. For example: you'll type "15bil instead of "15mill" - and it'll notify "you've disabled ordres of 10% difference from topmost on the market" So if you really want to set 15bill - you should click wallet settings and disable this. No "click yes to proceed" noone reads. I'll add this in the first post to be more clear.

No, I understood you perfectly. You want the game changed to protect your from your sausage-fingers. Just be more careful. People should be allowed to **** up sometimes.

And as it was pointed out there that this warning is useless on many types of orders. And actually causing more troubles than helps.

At first - no one is 100% safe from misstypes, especially when you deal with many orders everyday. And at second - It was written above that this setting won't be active by default - so what are the troubles you're talking about? It'll be only activated by player intentionally.
So if you feel yoursef 100% accurate - you just don't need it. But if you feel a bit clumsy or tired - it might be really helpful.

It's not another warrant. Maybe it wasn't stated clearly - but this setting won't let you set(or change) order that is X% distinguished from the topmost on the market. For example: you'll type "15bil instead of "15mill" - and it'll notify "you've disabled ordres of 10% difference from topmost on the market" So if you really want to set 15bill - you should click wallet settings and disable this. No "click yes to proceed" noone reads. I'll add this in the first post to be more clear.

Maybe you remember how one unpaid bill changed the history of eve [:8)

Which would still be the case with *this* warning/blocker/whatever. The only difference here is that this idea matches your particular use-case whereas the existing one has to meet the general needs of the userbase as a whole.

As for an example of problems this could cause, lets go with the most common issue this sort of hard-block creates. Reports of "the game won't let me do this thing because I turned on a setting without knowing what it does/turned it on accidentally".

Yes, I do. That's largely why the, "Grr, game should protect me from my own stupidity!" suggestions are so godawful. A lot of the most interesting game events to date have resulted from someone's carelessness. Why the **** should that be removed?

Actually this will cover 90% of cases. Because in most cases you just need to set order that is 0.01 isk(or in range of 1%) higher/lower than current topmost order on the market. Not this useless "average universe price index" used for current warning system.

That's why the notifier should say why it is not working. Or maybe even it should contain "go to wallet settings" button to be more helpful.

It's actually a 7-day weighted average of all sales of that item, and it's generally accurate enough more than 95% of the time, so very far from useless. Generally the only time it's not useful are for very small markets or niche items with little to nothing in the way of useful buy or sell orders already on the market, in which case your system would stumble as well.

Also, the reason that single value gets used instead of live market data is because it's an order of magnitude less server intensive to just retrieve that one precalculated value instead of grabbing the entire active market info for an item every time you need to check an input. Considering the number one source of load on the markets right now is retrieval of market orders like this I find it highly unlikely CCP would implement something like this in this way, they'd likely as not just use the average price, which we already have a warning for...

And how this "great" system is helpful with current event items? They're trading intensively and are volatile as hell atm. So this system is actually useless for them. Or for example you want to set an order in some faraway system for a different than average price - and again this system only causes troubles.

I really don't see how "get average price of typeid" is less server intensive than "get current price of typeid". Moreover - everyone is checking prices before any order manipulations - so checking in addition another "average price" is actually causing more server load, than using already gained and cached results.

As for the rest: As for me it's hard to imagine that people would complain about the setting they've changed by their own hands. But i can understand your point - people always complain(some may consider this topic as an example )
As for where this setting could be - not the big difference. Whereever CCP puts it. I've picked the wallet settings because most of the time i'm working with orders through it ;)

Ignoring the rest of the conversation here or any other topic referenced.

The ability to screw up an order is simply the game working as intended. Market characters by and large face very little in the way of risk and now you want to remove one of the few risks they actually face that being their own carelessness or clumsy fingers on a keyboard. My response is NO WAY IN HELL, be more careful, slow down and look at what you have entered BEFORE you commit the order to the market. If the no thousands separators thing is the problem then enter your numbers into a spread sheet that has separators and then copy paste them to the game when you are sure they are correct.

Setting all of that aside your idea is terrible because it removes the option one has of doing something crazy just to see how others respond or in an attempt to influence the market. And yes there are some of us out here that will throw away very large sums of ISK simply to watch others scramble to make sense of it all.

Ignoring the rest of the conversation here or any other topic referenced.

The ability to screw up an order is simply the game working as intended. Market characters by and large face very little in the way of risk and now you want to remove one of the few risks they actually face that being their own carelessness or clumsy fingers on a keyboard. My response is NO WAY IN HELL, be more careful, slow down and look at what you have entered BEFORE you commit the order to the market. If the no thousands separators thing is the problem then enter your numbers into a spread sheet that has separators and then copy paste them to the game when you are sure they are correct.

Setting all of that aside your idea is terrible because it removes the option one has of doing something crazy just to see how others respond or in an attempt to influence the market. And yes there are some of us out here that will throw away very large sums of ISK simply to watch others scramble to make sense of it all.

Let me see if I can explain this in a way that a non-programmer will understand.

While I don't like OP's idea I dislike it largely for reasons of implementation and practicality. I do agree that mistakes should be because of intentional action not fat-fingering a key.

This is precisely the reason the safety was introduced for in-space combat, though I will concede that in that case there was certainly an element of "lets not get the newbies killed by the police" at play as well.

Also OP's idea does not remove the ability to do stupid, it's basically a safety that the player has to manually set and enable. So if you want to set a buy order on a Carrier for 10b you still can.

Yes i nderstand that "average" value looks easier to use because it doesn't change too often. But this explanation is still missing the fact that "everyone is checking prices before any order manipulations - so checking in addition another "average price" is actually causing more server load, than using already gained and cached results."
Also, if you click "sell" on something - the highest buy order price will pre-fill in your price window and vice versa if you click buy. So all these values are already used ingame.
In my opinion the average price is here for the other purposes - for quick valuing if this given item is over/under priced or not(what is shown with this red/green arrows and % next to price entered).

While I don't like OP's idea I dislike it largely for reasons of implementation and practicality. I do agree that mistakes should be because of intentional action not fat-fingering a key.

This is precisely the reason the safety was introduced for in-space combat, though I will concede that in that case there was certainly an element of "lets not get the newbies killed by the police" at play as well.

Also OP's idea does not remove the ability to do stupid, it's basically a safety that the player has to manually set and enable. So if you want to set a buy order on a Carrier for 10b you still can.

This is precisely the reason the safety was introduced for in-space combat, though I will concede that in that case there was certainly an element of "lets not get the newbies killed by the police" at play as well.

If you're the one messing with the plex price kindly stop

The only risks a market character face are those that may cost them ISK in the markets and a major component of that risk is typing the wrong thing into a market screen or order. The OP Idea would completely remove that risk and somehow in a game about risk and rewards you think that is a good idea?

I've written a full answer, then deleted - because it dawned on me how to prove that topmost values are already used in all market operations: what happens when you finnaly hit OK button in an order window? Server actually DOES a check if someone is buying/selling stuff at that price OR at higher/lower price(because you can only fill topmost order then next etc) at that particular moment. If no - it creates an order if you were selling stuff or modifying order, or returns an error if you were buying.
So all you need to do - is just place my optional check in between this check and action taken.

That's being done on the server and as a separate operation where only the results are being served to your client. Your client never actually gets the values in question.

Also once again it's getting a valid order for you to fill, not the best price on the market. For example if you're setting up orders one jump out from Jita it ignores anything in 4-4 with a range of "System" so it's getting something different from what you're looking for and using a different method to do so.

Hmm since when risk of mistype became part of the game(and since when it's the major risk)? How about risk of disconnect/desync/server crash/insult/meteor/volcanic eruption etc?

As for your example - no it won't help there. As it won't help with any type of scam, desinformation etc. Technically it's just ties your order to current market prices, so you don't go out of that by adding/substracting few numbers from price unintentionally.

I "mis-typed" and ended up firing the death blow at a fleet mate in a battle in low sec, CCP needs to add a safety to protect me and my fleet mates from these "mis-typed" commands.
I "mis-typed" once and as a result a fleet mate that needed reps did not get them so he got blowed up real good, we need a safety to prevent us logi pilots from missing calls for reps because we "mis-typed".
I "mis-typed" once and it pushed my corp into a war dec, when what I wanted to do was simply agree to the terms offered, we need a safety to prevent these "mis-type" situations.
Don't be stupid is the response I am getting from several other EvE players sitting next to me as I type this, no one deserves to have a safety to protect them from their own stupidity, clumsiness or from not paying attention to what they are doing. You know what they are right, there is no activity in this game where a safety should protect us from our own stupidity, clumsiness, laziness or inattention to what we are doing and that includes market characters like you and me.

Your interpretation, I see it differently. If the safety prevents you from placing things on the market for more or less than the regional highest / lowest prices then players like my corp mate are protected because you as the seller could not place it on the market for such a ridiculously inflated price.

No thanks there's already sufficient warnings, if you make a mistake it's your responsibility to learn from it.

Mistakes cost you here, by design.

CCP thinks different.

That's why safety mechanics and many interface improvements were introduced past years.

Do they?

The safety switch was introduced to make life easier on newbies, and that's the only dev designed safety net in the game. Interface improvements are not safety mechanics, what you're asking for is a change to stop YOU from making silly mistakes when you fat finger your market orders, despite there already being warnings that you've chosen to ignore.

Learn from your mistakes.

Don't you really see the difference between player&player and player&interface interaction? Your arguments doesn't fit this case, exept for wardec - but i believe there already is a confirmation dialogue for such actions.