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Fix this logoff mentality.

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Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:17:00 - [1] 5 so far today. 5. I jump into a system, check which planet has the most belts, warp to said planet. Check scan, oh, an Ishkur! Switch to 60¦ scan to pin it down to one of a few belts, oh wait, he's not in local anymore. His drones are still here. He's not online anymore. Marvelous. This has happened 5 times to me in 0.0 today. Everything from mining frigs to ratting Ravens. Frankly it's getting ridiculous, something needs to be done about this. Either find some way of finding out whether it was a lost connection rather than a logoff, or a crash rather than a logoff, and make the ship stay in space, or do SOMETHING to local. Not remove it, I know everyone is sick of threads about that. But something does need to be done. Anyone who says "Oh, it's the carebears, ratters and miners who have it tough!" has clearly never tried life from the other side. Thoughts? Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
PredatorPT Stormlord Battleforce Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:28:00 - [2] Edited by: PredatorPT on 20/05/2007 14:27:39 I know what you mean, but if they did fix it, people wouldn't adapt and use PvP setups, they'd just return to high-sec, as the kind of player who logs off will never face you in PvP if he has the choice. And then you'd make another thread whining about not finding any targets in low-sec/0.0.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:37:00 - [3] mmm realy does need fixing
Khadar Bach	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:38:00 - [4] "Either find some way of finding out whether it was a lost connection rather than a logoff, or a crash rather than a logoff, and make the ship stay in space, or do SOMETHING to local." Why? It's perfectly accepted in the games rules that you log off, anytime, anywhere you want. "Not remove it, I know everyone is sick of threads about that. But something does need to be done. Anyone who says "Oh, it's the carebears, ratters and miners who have it tough!" has clearly never tried life from the other side." As you have clearly not tried life from their side .. :) It is an accepted game mechanic and it says in the FAQ _LITTERALLY_ that you can log off if you don't like the situation .. They have changed it now so you can't just log off in the middle of a fight, imo thats all you can ask for.. It would seem to me that you're the typical gank-type that goes out to prey on the newbs instead of preying on those who actually CAN fight back. In Domination we don't have anyone who would log off at the sight of a ganker.. Not even me :P I just fly with a cloak and use safespots.. Even in my myrm i haven't gotten close to getting caught yet.. So all in all, there isn't anything CCP can do for this matter ( more than they already have ).. Find targets who actually want to play the same way as you.. And stop whining about the way the game is built :)
Arienne Thielis Caldari Domination.	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:39:00 - [5] Just posting with my main.. Khadar Bach is an alt .. :P
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:47:00 - [6] Most games have a countdown until you can log off, in everquest etc, its about half a minute. In EvE - unless you've been engaged by a player, that timer is about a minute. However, in those other games, once you are attacked by a player while in the log off sequence/timer - it is interupted and you don't get to log out until your char loses aggro, either via death or killing the attacker(s) (a fairly basic AI takes over and tries to kill your assailant). The problem in eve is two fold - firstly it takes most of that minute to locate your assailant via scan probes, leaving only a few seconds to try and kill him (unless your a blob, killing a logged off BS in this manner isn't usually going to happen) Secondly, the logout timer isn't affected by being attacked after you've logged out - which it really should be.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:49:00 - [7] I love how when I'm travelling somewhere in 0.0 in a shuttle, crap frig, or even hauler, ravens log out when I enter local. -
Umit Davala Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:59:00 - [8] Guv, You're just going to have to stop looking so scary in local
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.20 15:01:00 - [9] Edited by: Dark Flare on 20/05/2007 15:01:23 Originally by: Khadar Bach "Either find some way of finding out whether it was a lost connection rather than a logoff, or a crash rather than a logoff, and make the ship stay in space, or do SOMETHING to local." Why? It's perfectly accepted in the games rules that you log off, anytime, anywhere you want. "Not remove it, I know everyone is sick of threads about that. But something does need to be done. Anyone who says "Oh, it's the carebears, ratters and miners who have it tough!" has clearly never tried life from the other side." As you have clearly not tried life from their side .. :) It is an accepted game mechanic and it says in the FAQ _LITTERALLY_ that you can log off if you don't like the situation .. They have changed it now so you can't just log off in the middle of a fight, imo thats all you can ask for.. It would seem to me that you're the typical gank-type that goes out to prey on the newbs instead of preying on those who actually CAN fight back. In Domination we don't have anyone who would log off at the sight of a ganker.. Not even me :P I just fly with a cloak and use safespots.. Even in my myrm i haven't gotten close to getting caught yet.. So all in all, there isn't anything CCP can do for this matter ( more than they already have ).. Find targets who actually want to play the same way as you.. And stop whining about the way the game is built :) I HAVE tried it from the other way, don't make assumptions :P When I used to live in IAC space, there were Outbreak raids EVERY day. I never logged off. Not once. Heck, I even finished off a TS spawn before warping once. I'm not preying on new people, new people first off hardly go to 0.0, and second off don't fly Ravens there. I haven't actually ganked a single person in the last 3 days because they all just log off. EDIT: Find targets who want to play the same way as me? So you're saying PvP in EVE should be... consensual? No. Just no. PvP is supposed to be non-consensual, logging off changes that somewhat. Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.20 15:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Umit Davala Guv, You're just going to have to stop looking so scary in local Arf Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.20 15:17:00 - [11] WEll, perhaps if all 0.0 rats were to scramble, it would force people to commiting to killing their spawn, and prevent logoffs. -- Billion Isk Mission
Arienne Thielis Caldari Domination.	Posted - 2007.05.20 15:28:00 - [12] "I HAVE tried it from the other way, don't make assumptions :P" Yes, don't make assumptions ... You don't know anything about wether or not these log-off'ers have played both sides .. "When I used to live in IAC space, there were Outbreak raids EVERY day. I never logged off. Not once. Heck, I even finished off a TS spawn before warping once." Kudos to you, some people just don't like loosing their **** :) "I'm not preying on new people, new people first off hardly go to 0.0, and second off don't fly Ravens there." I have seen lots of new people in 0.0.. Especially after the new creation thingies.. You can actually "almost" do 0.0 ratting from the get-go now :) ( Not optimal, but it can actually be done in about a month of playing :) "I haven't actually ganked a single person in the last 3 days because they all just log off." Try new fields tbh.. I have found lots of people who want to be ganked or who tried to gank me :) Not one of them logged :P "EDIT: Find targets who want to play the same way as me? So you're saying PvP in EVE should be... consensual? No. Just no. PvP is supposed to be non-consensual, logging off changes that somewhat." It has nothing to do with it being consensual.. As posted above you have a full minute to locate and kill your victim... A good change ( the only i can think of ) is making it like the rest of the MMO's .. Where you stay logged in if you're attacked while logging off.. ( It can't be lock only.. Must require scrambling or so ) That I would fully support :) But if you read the FAQ ( which has been like that forever ) you will se that in EVE it is fully accepted that you log off if you don't like the situation.. No matter what that situation is. I'm not saying that PvP should be consensual ( i dont always WANT to be gang-raped you know ), but players have the choice to log off if they dont like it. Semi-consensual, yeah.. But i guess it comes down to what way you want to play the game. .:P
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.20 15:36:00 - [13] Sorry I didn't make it clear, I never lost a ship to Outbreak either, except one gatecamp, which was just a misinformed decision by myself. But you don't have 1minute to kill them. if I fitted a probe launcher to my ship, I still wouldn't find people before they disappeared. And I refuse to resort to shooting wrecks or anything stupid like that to keep them in space, that's as bad as logging off in the first place. I don't know, it just seems like they have it easy. It's MUCH easier to have a scanner on 360, notice something that can kill you and log off, that it is to fly to a planet, find a target on 360, pin him down to one belt, warp in and scramble him. The fact that you will never catch a logger proves this. 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. Risk vs Reward and all that gubbins. No risk for loggers, yet full reward from their ratting. Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:24:00 - [14] Risk versus reward shouldn't include having to fight every goober who comes into local. {unless you want to.} If you aren't in combat with him when he logs, your whine holds no water.
Arii Smith Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:27:00 - [15] The reason they never fix it is because the devs do not want to shut the door on an exploit that has no doubt saved their own ships numerous times...
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Arii Smith The reason they never fix it is because the devs do not want to shut the door on an exploit that has no doubt saved their own ships numerous times... I present to you......The Tin Hat.
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:37:00 - [17] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Most games have a countdown until you can log off, in everquest etc, its about half a minute. In EvE - unless you've been engaged by a player, that timer is about a minute. However, in those other games, once you are attacked by a player while in the log off sequence/timer - it is interupted and you don't get to log out until your char loses aggro, either via death or killing the attacker(s) (a fairly basic AI takes over and tries to kill your assailant). The problem in eve is two fold - firstly it takes most of that minute to locate your assailant via scan probes, leaving only a few seconds to try and kill him (unless your a blob, killing a logged off BS in this manner isn't usually going to happen) Secondly, the logout timer isn't affected by being attacked after you've logged out - which it really should be. Differnce between EVE & those games (as ive esperienced) though is when u quit in them u stay ingame while the counter goes down then log off. Whereas in EVE u log off instantly but ur character remains. TBH now uve mentioned it id be quite supportive of CCP changing the system to that u remain logged on for the countdown n if agressed the countdown is reset/stopped. But then again it wouldnt really change alot. Till theres a better solution best u can really do is try to fit/fly with someone who has scanning probes. n get to them faster.
Merrick Solipsus Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:39:00 - [18] Its not just carebears doing this. We regularly have medium and large size gangs come to our space looking for a fight. When they finally realize they dont have what it takes for an easy gank they all log off. Its not uncommon to get 10-15 man gangs logging out, not ratter or miners, but people that come to our door looking for a fight. Its very pathetic.
Peter Armstrong Caldari 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:40:00 - [19] yer i agree something need to be done. i say 3 mins in space! Like it or not. If you log off in space thats your risk! Otherwise Dock up. There should be a 3 mins timer! after loging off. For one there loads of farmers in 0.0 and your be dam lucky to kill one because you show up they disapear. If you lost connection tuff!! because you log back in wont ya! If you lost internet connection then ISP can confirm this and send you the email then too CCP. ------------------------------------ It's all part of the Experiance! "IAC: Our wrecks will blot out the sun. BUM: Then we will loot in the shade." :)
turnschuh Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:41:00 - [20] its easy enough to gank npcers, just train up ur scanning skillz or use said tactic by yourself.
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Lord WarATron WEll, perhaps if all 0.0 rats were to scramble, it would force people to commiting to killing their spawn, and prevent logoffs. Maybe it was a bug but yesterday I was ratting and my connection went down. I did NOT zone out and was still in the belt when I finally got back into the game. And my aggro counter was happily counting away. Luckly I didn't die but if it wasn't a bug then that has been changed.
ObiAliKonobi mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Dark Flare 5 so far today. 5. I jump into a system, check which planet has the most belts, warp to said planet. Check scan, oh, an Ishkur! Switch to 60¦ scan to pin it down to one of a few belts, oh wait, he's not in local anymore. His drones are still here. He's not online anymore. Marvelous. This has happened 5 times to me in 0.0 today. Everything from mining frigs to ratting Ravens. Frankly it's getting ridiculous, something needs to be done about this. Either find some way of finding out whether it was a lost connection rather than a logoff, or a crash rather than a logoff, and make the ship stay in space, or do SOMETHING to local. Not remove it, I know everyone is sick of threads about that. But something does need to be done. Anyone who says "Oh, it's the carebears, ratters and miners who have it tough!" has clearly never tried life from the other side. Thoughts? Don't always work for the carebear..... To the cyclone pilot i warped to at 100km in 0.0, who calmy waited for me ol nano curse to get 50km from him and then log....... Boy those bc take forever to hit warp the only debate i had was whether i should try make the 10 system round trip for my helios to probe him
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:05:00 - [23] They just need to make it so that if you log in someplace out in space that you can be found (especially if you log in enemy sovereign space ). If you don't log off either at a pos or a station, you can be found.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:16:00 - [24] Only way to change that behavior is to modify the death penalties. Why do poeple logoffski? Cause they are sick of grinding for week/s to lose a ship in 15 seconds flat, I would assume. Actually it sounds like people were monitoring an intel channel and you got made.
Pirate John	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:33:00 - [25]
laphroiag StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Dark Flare When I used to live in IAC space, there were Outbreak raids EVERY day. I never logged off. Not once. Heck, I even finished off a TS spawn before warping once. Yeah, but that's greed rather than bravery.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:34:00 - [27] I don't have objections to people hitting a SS then logging off if someone comes into system, my gripe comes from the fact they log out in the belt, even if engaged against NPCs. There is 0 risk involved in this, moment someone enters local, log off and your safe.
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Krugerrand I don't have objections to people hitting a SS then logging off if someone comes into system, my gripe comes from the fact they log out in the belt, even if engaged against NPCs. There is 0 risk involved in this, moment someone enters local, log off and your safe. What he said. Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Soporo Only way to change that behavior is to modify the death penalties. Why do poeple logoffski? Cause they are sick of grinding for week/s to lose a ship in 15 seconds flat, I would assume. Actually it sounds like people were monitoring an intel channel and you got made. Uh, no, they saw me on scanner, same way I saw them to try and find and kill them? Also, if you can't afford to lose a ship, don't fly it in 0.0, not rocket science. Don't use a lame tactic to get around your own inability to fight, or inability to replace ships. Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
Father Weebles North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:43:00 - [30] It's so damn easy to rat in 00 once you pass the entry systems. It requires some planning gasp and general knowledge of the Eve map and any intel channel you have at your disposal. I npced for about a week in my mrymidon in Great Wildlands about 1 month ago. There were dozens of neutrals that came through the system but never once was i killed. Important tips for 00 ratting 1. Buy a ship like a myrmidon that doesnt need ammo and fit a cloak. 2. Make sure u can get into 00 (alt scout, or make friends with the local alliance) 3. Scout the route to your desired destination with a throwaway alt. 4. Log onto main and go to said system and make safes. 5. NPC. 6. Warp to a safe and cloak if any neutrals come in. 7. After you are done NPCing and want to head back to empire or a 00 station log onto your throwaway alt and scout the route. EASY There's no reason to log off if you use half your brain cells. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465085

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