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Theo Samaritan
Gallente UNSC Manufactoring Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.20 21:36:00 -
[1]
Amarr. Gallente. Caldari. Minmatar.
Hear me.
I wonder these message boards and the cluster itself. All I see is the racial squabbles between our respective races - most of which aimed at the Amarr.
I admit myself guilty of predudice towards the Amarrans History, but not the People.
Why do we fight so? Why do we squabble? Why must we turn even an Announcment of an Engagement into a row over the Amarran ways?
We are all brothers and sisters. We all share similar goals. We all share similar blood.
Will you stand and tell me that we cannot live as one?
The past is the past, the present is the present, and the future is unknown. We must forget the past, and work together in the present for a brighter future. For all of us.
This racial and cultural intolerance must stop. Even I see that.
So, brothers and sisters, tell me your views. ______________________________
"To fight a war on the table, you must be able to fight a war on the front." |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari Caldari Research Management
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Posted - 2007.05.20 23:59:00 -
[2]
It's not the individual Amattar people I despise so much as the reliance their economy and culture has on the slavery and immoral bondage of sentient beings.
It doesn't stop at the Minmatar' people either, even Amarrian born and individuals in the wrong place at the wrong time are sold into slavery and brainwashed or vitoc dependant life.
Their history is rich, and their Faith is strong. I strongly disagree with some of their more outspoken views though, I will share a beer, song, story and even bed with like minded Amarrians, no worries. Slave traders or holders I hold no truck with though. Life is about memories the more the better. Looking for CCP to improve availability of their GTC's, for non card carriers! |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:03:00 -
[3]
Your culture puts people in your prisons to work for the good of the state, does it not?
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Theo Samaritan
Gallente UNSC Manufactoring Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Your culture puts people in your prisons to work for the good of the state, does it not?
If this turns into another racial discussion from any Amarran I will try damn hard to be having words with The Speakers of Truth.
This applies to all the races. I will attempt to contact the higher powers of all the empires involved if any further flamebating between you occurs.
I want opinions, not arguments. ______________________________
"To fight a war on the table, you must be able to fight a war on the front." |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari Caldari Research Management
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:13:00 -
[5]
I have offered my opinion, the PIE representative offered up the fact that guilty people are punished by the withdrawal of their freedom.
A slave, born or captured into indentured servitude has neither commited any crime or been found guilty of one.
Life is about memories the more the better. End Slavery. |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:17:00 -
[6]
The problem is one cannot have a non-confrontational debate with an Amarrian, because they come into it already assured of both their racial superiority and the absolute validity of their argument. If Amarrians were willing to forever renounce the practice of doing this I would be most willing to appologise for my confrontational and somewhat racist remarks towards them in the past.
Until then, the Imperialist slaver bastards can take a massive suck on my [fluid-router entanglement interference - message prematurely terminated]
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Parsor Evarkis
Minmatar Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:19:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Will you stand and tell me that we cannot live as one?
The past is the past, the present is the present, and the future is unknown. We must forget the past, and work together in the present for a brighter future. For all of us.
We cannot live as one while the Amarr seek to enslave all other races in the cluster. Once the Amarr renounce slavery and sets all slaves free, only when that happens can all people have the potential to live as one, until then we shall never be one.
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Aliahnora Dushan
Gallente CRC Auxiliary
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Aliahnora Dushan on 21/05/2007 00:17:41 (grr, default changed delete) Proudly bringing you 'The Summit' in space channel. |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:21:00 -
[9]
My post was not flamebait, it was merely showing and example of how our cultures are not that different, even on the issue that most people enjoy attacking Amarr the most on.
When your opinions are that you hate Amarr unjustly, there is not much that can be done about that other than to try and fix your ignorance of us.
The Gallente inspired racist ignorance of Amarr is at such a level that some cheer when Amarrians die. Yet Amarrians have done nothing hostile to anyone for over a century and has been consistantly the most actively peace seeking entity for that century.
If you want peace you need to work to fix that ignorance. You need to show why the Gallente propoganda about Amarr is not accurate, that our practices are not evil. You need to look at the last century of Pax Amarria, in which the non-Amarrians have been the sole agressors in actions involving Amarr, and quit spreading the Gallente penned misinformation about Amarr.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush I have offered my opinion, the PIE representative offered up the fact that guilty people are punished by the withdrawal of their freedom.
A slave, born or captured into indentured servitude has neither commited any crime or been found guilty of one.
By Amarrian law you are fully accountable for the sins of your fathers, for the crimes that brought you into this universe. You can call this backwards and you can declare your wars, but we are not the people involved in offensive wars over the last century.
We could take the offensive and name every last thing we see as injust in your society, but that is not the road to Peace.
You do not gain peace unless you respect the laws of the entities you wish to have peace with.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
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Theo Samaritan
Gallente UNSC Manufactoring Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri My post was not flamebait, it was merely showing and example of how our cultures are not that different, even on the issue that most people enjoy attacking Amarr the most on.
I'm well aware that it was not a flamebate by most standards - I just used it as a point from which to make my point that im intolerate of racial intolerence.
As for the Gallente. Personally I make up my own damn mind. I hate the Amarran past, but not current Amarr. ______________________________
"To fight a war on the table, you must be able to fight a war on the front." |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.21 00:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri The Gallente inspired racist ignorance of Amarr is at such a level that some cheer when Amarrians die. Yet Amarrians have done nothing hostile to anyone for over a century and has been consistantly the most actively peace seeking entity for that century.
Yet almost every day I find evidence of slave camps being set up in Gallente and Minmatar territory by the Amarrian Navy, in direct contravention of the Yulai Convention and various other treaties.
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri If you want peace you need to work to fix that ignorance. You need to show why the Gallente propoganda about Amarr is not accurate, that our practices are not evil.
But it is accurate. Beatings, institutionalised poisoning, mind-control implants and much more is used to control unwilling slaves. This is evil.
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri You need to look at the last century of Pax Amarria, in which the non-Amarrians have been the sole agressors in actions involving Amarr, and quit spreading the Gallente penned misinformation about Amarr.
Gallente "propoganda" is almost entirely accurate. Amarr refuses to recognise the legitemacy of the Minmatar Republic, and has repeatedly hired Caldari mercenaries to abduct and enslave Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar citizens - this is entirely unacceptable.
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Ikasu
Gallente The Durandal Organization The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.05.21 01:03:00 -
[13]
I think theres a lot of assumptions and racist profiling on all end. People assume all Amarr are slave owning violent bastards, people assume that all Gallente are drug addicts, people assume the Caldari are greedy, and many believe the Minmater are all violent terrorists. Though in many cases this profiling is proved wrong simply by being.
As for myself, it's not the Amarr people themselves I hate, but the practice of slavery and the way many of them defend it. Would I destroy a slave transport if I saw it? Probably. Will I pop shots at any Amarr I see just because? Doubtful. ------------------------------------------------- Attention Devs, for every isk you send me one member of your family will be returned safely.
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Kage Getsu
Knowledge Industries Geological Research Ghosts Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.21 01:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
By Amarrian law you are fully accountable for the sins of your fathers, for the crimes that brought you into this universe. You can call this backwards and you can declare your wars, but we are not the people involved in offensive wars over the last century.
I find that statement curious. The Amarrians have been the aggressors in the past, so shouldn't modern Amarrians such as yourself be held responsible for that?
As for your claims that Amarrians have been completely innocent in recent years, well, I don't even know where to begin with that. I've noticed that Amarrians conveniently fail to recognize the existence of the Minmatar Republic. Just because you do not recognize the Republic doesn't make slave raids and offensive actions towards it legal. If you want others to respect your laws and sovreignity, perhaps you should reciprocate. _________________________________________________________
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Zoea
Minmatar Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.05.21 02:14:00 -
[15]
i think we tend to hate amarrians cause they use cap to shoot, cap that could otherwise be spent tanking or running handy little things called modules.
this leads them to some kind of mass psychosis, whereby they NEED to feel superior because they simply cant face the possibility of running out of cap AND being unable to tank OR shoot (i'd just like to remind you that them shooting = running outta cap now ), a problem we other races are not 'often' faced with. they fail to understand their ships are designed for this eventuality.
of course, the whole slaver thing doesn't help. but no, thinking about it, i think it's gotta be the damn lasers. ammo wtfpwnz lasers any day. -=-=-=-==-=--=-=-=--=-=--==-=--¼=-==--=-=-=--==-=--=-=-=-=-=-==-=-
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.21 02:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 21/05/2007 02:38:08
Originally by: Kage Getsu
I find that statement curious. The Amarrians have been the aggressors in the past, so shouldn't modern Amarrians such as yourself be held responsible for that?
Well you either chose to accept Amarrian law, in which case those byegone agressions werent against the faith, or you chose to not accept amarrian law in which case they dont apply to the modern generation.
Which is more important to you, peace or gallente idealistic hegemony? You cant both work for peace and try and force Gallente ideals on others.
Quote:
As for your claims that Amarrians have been completely innocent in recent years, well, I don't even know where to begin with that. I've noticed that Amarrians conveniently fail to recognize the existence of the Minmatar Republic. Just because you do not recognize the Republic doesn't make slave raids and offensive actions towards it legal. If you want others to respect your laws and sovreignity, perhaps you should reciprocate.
We recognise the other entity in the Matari Civil war, the one that until recently was bravely defending itself from relentless offensive war by the "Republic." It is the Republic which has tried so hard to exterminate their rightful rulers in the mandate, not the other way around. Now that they have a ceasefire there is some hope that peace will reign in the region.
Also please inform me about what offensive actions you speak, the only ones I know of are either rumors or frauds, that are not supported by either government. I also have heard equal rumors of agression by actual republic loyalists other than the every present terrorist threats. I choose in the interests of peace to discount those as just that, rumors and outlaws pretending to be Matari fleet personelle, and vice versa.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Kage Getsu
Knowledge Industries Geological Research Ghosts Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.21 02:50:00 -
[17]
Quote:
We recognise the other entity in the Matari Civil war, the one that until recently was bravely defending itself from relentless offensive war by the "Republic." It is the Republic which has tried so hard to exterminate their rightful rulers in the mandate, not the other way around. Now that they have a ceasefire there is some hope that peace will reign in the region.
Okay, hotshot, what makes the Ammatar Mandate the "rightful rulers" of all the Matari peoples? Why can they not choose their own destiny?
Since you Amarrians are so keen on slavery, does that mean you would submissively accept your fate if someone were to subjugate you? Or would you try to fight back, for the right to forge your own destiny?
Quote: Also please inform me about what offensive actions you speak, the only ones I know of are either rumors or frauds, that are not supported by either government. I also have heard equal rumors of agression by actual republic loyalists other than the every present terrorist threats. I choose in the interests of peace to discount those as just that, rumors and outlaws pretending to be Matari fleet personelle, and vice versa.
During my time in the Federation Navy, I spent as much time fighting off Amarrian/Caldari incursions as much as I fought Serpentis terrorists and drug smugglers. And before you accuse the Federation of the same kind of thing, please note that we don't try to deny such acts and play innocent as you do. The Federation doesn't have a persecution complex like many Amarrians as of late.
Quote:
Which is more important to you, peace or gallente idealistic hegemony? You cant both work for peace and try and force Gallente ideals on others.
People like you are trying to hide behind peace after over ten thousand years of aggression and crimes against sentience. The Empire's list of crimes is vast, and it will atone for every single one of them. _________________________________________________________
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.21 03:12:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 21/05/2007 03:11:58
Quote:
During my time in the Federation Navy, I spent as much time fighting off Amarrian/Caldari incursions as much as I fought Serpentis terrorists and drug smugglers. And before you accuse the Federation of the same kind of thing, please note that we don't try to deny such acts and play innocent as you do. The Federation doesn't have a persecution complex like many Amarrians as of late.
Its interesting that you say this. Because the Federation would certainly deny any such claims by Amarrians. In fact, if we made such claims we would be drowned out by the shouting of those who dislike Amarr. Yet you say that you would admit them openly? If I wanted war, I would put those words to the test and release a catalogue of every supposedly "Gallente Navy" attack on Amarr in the last years that I could find. I assume that we are not at war, and that therefor those incidents represent rogue gallente forces, hence the lack of official protest on both sides when they are destroyed.
I believe you thought you were fighting Amarrian loyalists, I do not believe that you actually were as it seems decidedly odd to me that if both sides were loseing the number of ships claimed to eachother daily that we could say we were at peace.
Quote:
Okay, hotshot, what makes the Ammatar Mandate the "rightful rulers" of all the Matari peoples? Why can they not choose their own destiny?
Why, because the Matari themselves chose them as their leaders before we came along. The current republic rebelled against their own nobility, and then tried their best to exterminate their own nobility. They may very well have lost more lives than any war to date in their attempts to do the latter.
The onus is on you to step back and call for peace, as Midular has just done, we did so a century ago.
Quote:
Since you Amarrians are so keen on slavery, does that mean you would submissively accept your fate if someone were to subjugate you? Or would you try to fight back, for the right to forge your own destiny?
This is the kind of blind ignorance that makes dealing with people like you all but impossible. As is:
Quote:
People like you are trying to hide behind peace after over ten thousand years of aggression and crimes against sentience. The Empire's list of crimes is vast, and it will atone for every single one of them.
You dont want peace, you want death. You think that if you kill enough people you will make it all better for your worldview. You call for genocide, while accusing your opponents of being the ones who make such calls.
It doesnt work that way, but if you force us to abandon the Pax, you may get your wish of death, though I doubt that such a war will turn out the way you think it will.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Kage Getsu
Knowledge Industries Geological Research Ghosts Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.21 03:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Quote:
Since you Amarrians are so keen on slavery, does that mean you would submissively accept your fate if someone were to subjugate you? Or would you try to fight back, for the right to forge your own destiny?
This is the kind of blind ignorance that makes dealing with people like you all but impossible.
You're dodging that question. Are you afraid or something? Would you or would you not accept your fate if you were enslaved?
I'm not going to address anything else you're saying until you grow the stones to admit your massive double standard. _________________________________________________________
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.21 03:41:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 21/05/2007 03:40:25 Your question is flawed and betrays your nature as someone trying to score points against Amarr rather than open discourse with Amarr.
I believe, therefore that it is against the very spirit of this thread and that answering it as it deserves will take the thread down ways that Mr. Samaritan does not wish it to go.
I am willing to open discourse with anyone to try and bring an understanding of how Amarrian culture is not something that should be reviled, and something that can be lived with in peace, as we have proven ourselves entirely willing to do over the last century.
I am not willing to turn this into a shouting match about Amarrian beliefs.
Make peace with Amarr and we will make peace with you, that has been the message of the last two Emperors. If the next Emperor is forced to abandon the Pax it will be because the attacks on Amarr continue unabated despite a century of peaceful action.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
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Altarion Ayanami
Gallente Astral Eagles
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Posted - 2007.05.21 07:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Theo Samaritan Amarr. Gallente. Caldari. Minmatar.
Hear me.
I wonder these message boards and the cluster itself. All I see is the racial squabbles between our respective races - most of which aimed at the Amarr.
I admit myself guilty of predudice towards the Amarrans History, but not the People.
Why do we fight so? Why do we squabble? Why must we turn even an Announcment of an Engagement into a row over the Amarran ways?
We are all brothers and sisters. We all share similar goals. We all share similar blood.
Will you stand and tell me that we cannot live as one?
The past is the past, the present is the present, and the future is unknown. We must forget the past, and work together in the present for a brighter future. For all of us.
This racial and cultural intolerance must stop. Even I see that.
So, brothers and sisters, tell me your views.
Your wiews are noble, if not a bit naive. I for one agree, I would wish for nothing more that universal peace, where I could go anywhere and interact with anyone whenever I wished, without fear of anything.
Yet, sadly, that is not possible. Not as things are now. The universe, despite your and even my wishes, is a dark, brooding, sinister place where people suffer and die daily based on any one foolish factor: Race, religion, alligience, wiews and oppinions.
It if for this reason I fight. I fight, so that my home may avoid the flame and my kindred may live. There is nothing else for it in this dark universe.
If I lay down my arms, my family will die, maybe not today, but eventually.
If I surrender, my lands will be taken by force, with no resistance.
If I give up, our freedom will end.
I don't wish for any of the above to happend, I myself is expendable. If I die, I may be replaced, mut if Intaki burns, it will not grow again. Do you see my problem? I would wish for no less than what you wish for, brother. But I'm afraid, it is not possible. Not yet.
If it were to happend, do please let me know, will you? --------- Federation Loyalist - A man of the Federation, defending home and kin. |
Na'Thuul
Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.21 09:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Theo Samaritan
We are all brothers and sisters.
Well.. at least your average Amarrian noble couple are.
smirks ---
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Redbad
Minmatar Be Inspired Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.21 10:52:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Redbad on 21/05/2007 10:50:17
I know Amarr that are good people and truly interpret the scriptures in a way that I, a born Sebiestor, even can call them friend! I know Minmatar that I wouldn't leave my sister alone with or for that matter turn my back on.
The first mistake you make is adressing the races directly, the problem doesn't lie there. It is in the hearts of some individuals that are not strong enough to withstand propaganda uttered by devious minds, where the corruption starts.
It is these devious minds that need to be checked, upon letting common sense and true goodness in the majority of people prevail.
Every race has its "crooks". This summit is used by many of these entities as an outlet for their propaganda. I only can ask people to see through this propaganda and stay true to themselves. Only then one can judge for himself what is good or wrong. It is only then that cultural intolerance can be seen as it is: a shortcoming of oneself being unable to judge and value other persons.
RB
join us today! |
Sardoniac
Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2007.05.21 11:17:00 -
[24]
Yet almost every day I find evidence of slave camps being set up in Gallente and Minmatar territory by the Amarrian Navy, in direct contravention of the Yulai Convention and various other treaties.
..and within our borders almost everyday there are hidden stargates found where your kin is stealing the very resources of the Empire. If you hold the Amarrian Empire responsible for law-breaking actions of single individuals or corporations I guess you should start within your own greedy rows. I can stone you to death with gallentean dog tags and I have never been to your space..
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Rilder
Caldari THC LTD
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Posted - 2007.05.21 11:50:00 -
[25]
I seem confused; true I've been on vacation planetside for the last 4 months but I've knoticed a bit of heat between the Amarr and my brethren the Caldari, I thought that there was an alliance of sort, or business partnership at least, has this broken down during shore leave? If it has any sort of war would be suicidal for the Ammarians to attempt.
As for the discussions, it is natural for our races to fight it seems; even if we did somehow get around racial differences there will always be a reason to fight, whether its territory, rich asteroid fields or even technology, our species will always find a way to fight. The quest for Peace is noble but its impossible it would seem. -Rilder |
Mori Felding
Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2007.05.21 12:34:00 -
[26]
Quote: Will you stand and tell me that we cannot live as one?
Yes. Co-existence in peace with the Amarr slavers will never happen, at least not as long as I draw breath. ___
Memento Mori |
Theo Samaritan
Gallente UNSC Manufactoring Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.21 12:36:00 -
[27]
Look at you all. Some of you seem to not want peace, others of you claim its impossible, and ironically the one person who attempted to prevent a racial dispute happening was the one person whos race most others are repulsed at.
Those who do not want peace, shame on you.
Those who think peace is impossible, you are wrong. Nothing is impossible if the hearts of those involved stand true to it.
I long for peace, and I welcome any follower who joins me on the path towards it. ______________________________
"To fight a war on the table, you must be able to fight a war on the front." |
Redbad
Minmatar Be Inspired Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.21 14:25:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Redbad on 21/05/2007 14:24:03
Originally by: Theo Samaritan Look at you all. Some of you seem to not want peace, others of you claim its impossible, and ironically the one person who attempted to prevent a racial dispute happening was the one person whos race most others are repulsed at.
Those who do not want peace, shame on you.
Those who think peace is impossible, you are wrong. Nothing is impossible if the hearts of those involved stand true to it.
I long for peace, and I welcome any follower who joins me on the path towards it.
But my good Theo Samaritan! You said that racial and cultural intolerance had to stop, you never mentioned a word about peace, or do you think that those two things are so intertwined that they can only go together?
Because then you are wrong. Most wars aren't about racial or cultural intolerance at all. Take the great war that is raging now, that is a war to obtain, or better said, deny resources to other alliances.
Peace is a relative thing. We can have peace, fighting for what we believe in. I don't disapprove of war necessarily, it is an ultimate mean to assure things are settled into order again. The Sebiestor I represent disapprove of racial or cultural intolerance very much, you can have our vote on that in this summit anytime.
We therefore deem goal admirable, you plea inspirational, but I feel sorry that it is realism that will keep many in this Summit from fully supporting your ideas.
We humbly apologize,
RB
join us today! |
Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.05.21 15:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
A slave, born or captured into indentured servitude has neither commited any crime or been found guilty of one.
That is wrong... One inherits the sins of his ancestors.
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Theo Samaritan
Gallente UNSC Manufactoring Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.21 17:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Redbad
But my good Theo Samaritan! You said that racial and cultural intolerance had to stop, you never mentioned a word about peace, or do you think that those two things are so intertwined that they can only go together?
I beleave that one leads onto another that leads onto another. War between races brings hate between races, which eventually brings war between races once again. Is this not fundementally true? ______________________________
"To fight a war on the table, you must be able to fight a war on the front." |
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