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Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.21 09:23:00 - [1] Hello fellow Drake pilots. In order to raise our voices there will be a public demonstration in Jita today after dt. Pull out your drake and join the caravan, we will move from Jita to the border of the GM region (the jove space or wherever that polaris systems are), making a riot and break/shoot/kill anything we see (billboards included) as a protest on the upcoming passive shieldtank nerf. Put some molotow coktails in your launchers and don't forget to paint your drakes red.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.21 09:25:00 - [2] I agree! CCP SHOULD GIVE AMARR BOOST ALREADY! Oh and please nerf uber passive tanks .. thanks! "to be honest it makes me wonder about the mental state of a person who would join a corp called Space Perverts and Forum warriors"
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.21 09:50:00 - [3] die drake, die "A raven is bad in fleet fights. Therefor a raven must be bad for all other pvp environments, too" - Your average PVP'er
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Sokratesz die drake, die /signed
zurich93 SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:04:00 - [5] yay the drake will be less uber but still uber Nope starts here actually :O -----Sig starts here------- <3 Kaemonn eep eep beep heep keep womble... YOU DO NOT POSESS THE POWER TO DISGUINISH MY SIG FROM MY POST MWHAHAHA IBTL
Mathias Orsen	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:15:00 - [6] the drake should get the nerf.... even more so is the shield tanked myrmidon... I really hate to see it happen cause the Drakes tank really isn't so overpowered as far as tankable DPS and the slots used to do it. The thing that makes the drake overpowered is that it can get that nice tank while running 100% passive. If it wasn't for passive hardeners, the drake would be well balanced from it's own cap. Passively however, the drake keeps on tanking 100% with cap at 0%. The problem simply comes from having a ship that if not hit by more damage than it can sustain (wich is a high amount) the drake is invincible.... and invincibility is far from balance. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Big Al The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:22:00 - [7] Edited by: Big Al on 21/05/2007 11:23:10 No web: check Imbal tank: check No cap regen: check No speed mods: check Sig the size of a house: check Requires cap to run the active hardeners for an imbal tank: check Can tank most solo BS til it runs out of cap: check It's a pve, bait, or heavy tackler (although with no sb kind of meh in that role) with gang support ship. For these purposes it excels. If you die a to a drake solo, you seriously need to quit the game. If the drake doesn't give up ALL of it's offensive abilities it can't tank a skilled/decently setup gank bs. That being said, a nerf probably is in order, it is pretty friggen uber . Give some faction passive tanking mods now :) To people crying about the nerf: it isn't that bad, it will still fill all of the previously mentioned roles (although you will probably need to fit T2 and rigs to make it effective) To people crying for the nerf: it's a MMO, if you ganged up you could have killed it. If people whine about every ship that has some sort of advantage eventually we'll end up all flying the same crap. Looking for a PC on 3 characters
Scraqp Advocates	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:27:00 - [8] ridiculous
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:32:00 - [9] If you have 500mil to throw at a drake you can fix it so it doesnt need cap at all (faction EM, KIN, THE hards w/ good comp skills) making it godlike imba. "A raven is bad in fleet fights. Therefor a raven must be bad for all other pvp environments, too" - Your average PVP'er
Lore Isander Caldari The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:34:00 - [10] Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Originally by: Sokratesz die drake, die /signed /signed^2
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:38:00 - [11] For PvE Passive shield tanks BC's are overpowered. The nerf is needed and the ships with the nerf are still better then what we had 6 months ago. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Big Al The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.21 11:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Sokratesz If you have 500mil to throw at a drake you can fix it so it doesnt need cap at all (faction EM, KIN, THE hards w/ good comp skills) making it godlike imba. Last time I checked a disruptor would need cap. So basically it would be a QQ I can't kill a carebear solo arguement at that point. Looking for a PC on 3 characters
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.05.21 12:14:00 - [13] Drake = High tank, low damage. If you can't kill it, it's because you sacrificed damage for tank. Much like the drake pilot did. hmmm... pot meet kettle, see you on the forums. Waaah! My kettle's black, but that pot is blacker, waaaaaaaaah. Just about anything BC or bigger that launched with proper guns instead of 3x LARII on board will shred a passive Drake into dust very quickly. If you are whining of Passive Drakes, you are only highlighting your own inadequacy. I'm an Ex-Drake pilot. For me, zee nerf is stupid, the Drake was underpowered anyway, tanking != killing. The Myrmidon is the best BC candidate for a nerf, and even that shouldn't get one. Eve: Cheats prosper.
zwerg mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.05.21 12:15:00 - [14] Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Originally by: Sokratesz die drake, die /DOUBLE UBER ULTRA signed fixed ... eve's youngest piwat Yarrrr :)
Vaine Amarr Amarr Upright Citizens Brigade	Posted - 2007.05.21 18:04:00 - [15] Originally by: zwerg Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Originally by: Sokratesz die drake, die /DOUBLE UBER ULTRA signed fixed Agree'd __________________________ It's great beeing Amarr, ain't it? O rly?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.21 18:10:00 - [16] Save the Drake from what exactly? Balance? _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.05.21 18:16:00 - [17] Nerf carriers! ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
Corwain Gallente Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.21 18:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Gaven Blands If you can't kill it, it's because you sacrificed damage for tank. Apparently you haven't heard. Good Passive BCs can tank most T2 gank BSes. Guess they should have brought a Dread!
Alyth Gallente Ma-Ven Industries Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.21 18:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Gaven Blands Drake = High tank, low damage. If you can't kill it, it's because you sacrificed damage for tank. Much like the drake pilot did. hmmm... pot meet kettle, see you on the forums. Waaah! My kettle's black, but that pot is blacker, waaaaaaaaah. Just about anything BC or bigger that launched with proper guns instead of 3x LARII on board will shred a passive Drake into dust very quickly. If you are whining of Passive Drakes, you are only highlighting your own inadequacy. I'm an Ex-Drake pilot. For me, zee nerf is stupid, the Drake was underpowered anyway, tanking != killing. The Myrmidon is the best BC candidate for a nerf, and even that shouldn't get one. I don't see many battleships, gank or nay, throwing out the 1400dps required to break a decent drakes tank. Secondly WHY should it require one or two Battleships (minimum) to kill a Battlecruiser? You are talking about a ship that is damn near unkillable in PvE and anything short of a gank BS gang or a capship fitted to kill small stuff is going to struggle too.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:00:00 - [20] Just die
Calexis Atredies	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:09:00 - [21] Edited by: Calexis Atredies on 21/05/2007 19:06:53 Errr... for all those who posted above arguing about the nerf, please go use another thread as this one seems to be about people in support of not nerfing the drake. He wasnt asking for your views. Yakia you have my support in saving the drake from the nerf hammer, I will even post "part of the Save The Drake Movement" in my bio. Could we please schedule the protest for a later date so we can actually organise a large protest group? I would like to see what a group of super-tanked drakes can do, they cant be killed 1 on 1 and the numbers should make up for their lack of DPS
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:37:00 - [22] If you guys dont like the drake just go train minmatar or gallente. Easy fix.....
Ima Gofor	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:38:00 - [23] The Drake can indeed run an omgwtf tank using every single slot it has in mids and lows + rigs. And the rigs are required - without them the tank is cut in half. Said Drakes can do nothing else, however, except sit there absorbing damage. I fly one myself atm since I can get a good tank out of it with noob skills and lots of isk. It's good for ratting etc. if you swap out the lows for damage - still tanks rats pretty well. For pvp so far in my experience it's only good for annoying people because they can't break the tank. When the most popular way to set up a ship is to turn it into a flying bunker something has gone seriously wrong, however, and it needs to be fixed. But imo a silly 10% or whatever it is across the board nerf isn't a fix (nerfing and fixing is not the same thing for those who need reminding). Filling all mod and rig slots with tanking enhancers and bricking it up is still going to be the most (albeit less) effective use for a drake - and that's sad for such a nice ship. The bonuses need to be changed and so on - it's all discussed in the nerf thread. More generally, I think we are going to see more and more of these freak builds as more (imo too much - cue flames) additional modding possibilities are added to the game. The Drake passive tank offers evidence that rigs are broken too (not a great surprise, for me anyway). Rigs were supposed to be ways to make minor adjustments to your ship to personalise it and to give tweaking enthusiasts a playground (weren't they?). They were never intended to be required mods and to literally double a ships effectiveness based solely on their presence, as in the case of the Drake (less extreme examples including 3xfalloff setups etc.) Rigs are starting to become/have become required to be competitive in pvp, which is a worrying development imo. The Drake itself, which costs 30M maybe, is trivial compared to the cost of mods. When buying a Drake you don't mod your ship, you ship your mods. And I have a feeling 'Heat' is going to be a micromanagement nightmare. Ok going off topic slightly. Main points - 1) Fix general modding mechanics instead of nerfing and thinking that is equivalent to fixing. 2) Nerf Myrm you idiots! Far, far, more effective than Drake now even with stupid tank. Why do people always leave those democratic buffoons and their almost universally overpowered silly looking ships alone? 3) Make up some excuse to nerf Amarr generally (+40% laser cap usage across the board sounds fair)
AegriSomnia Caldari Aegis Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:50:00 - [24] Originally by: Mathias Orsen The problem simply comes from having a ship that if not hit by more damage than it can sustain (wich is a high amount) the drake is invincible.... and invincibility is far from balance. Ummm....Isnt this true for everything in every game? If you cant do more damage than it can take, isnt ANYTHING invicible? Isnt a BS considered invincible to a NooB ship? I dont quite understand your point here.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:51:00 - [25] Tell ya what, Mr TovilToba: I'll support you "Save the Drake" movement if you support my "Bring back the 8-unstacked-heatsinks Gankageddon" movement. 'Cause Amarrian slave-driving oppressors need some love too, you know.
Alyth Gallente Ma-Ven Industries Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Ima Gofor The Drake can indeed run an omgwtf tank using every single slot it has in mids and lows + rigs. And the rigs are required - without them the tank is cut in half. Said Drakes can do nothing else, however, except sit there absorbing damage. I fly one myself atm since I can get a good tank out of it with noob skills and lots of isk. It's good for ratting etc. if you swap out the lows for damage - still tanks rats pretty well. For pvp so far in my experience it's only good for annoying people because they can't break the tank. When the most popular way to set up a ship is to turn it into a flying bunker something has gone seriously wrong, however, and it needs to be fixed. But imo a silly 10% or whatever it is across the board nerf isn't a fix (nerfing and fixing is not the same thing for those who need reminding). Filling all mod and rig slots with tanking enhancers and bricking it up is still going to be the most (albeit less) effective use for a drake - and that's sad for such a nice ship. The bonuses need to be changed and so on - it's all discussed in the nerf thread. More generally, I think we are going to see more and more of these freak builds as more (imo too much - cue flames) additional modding possibilities are added to the game. The Drake passive tank offers evidence that rigs are broken too (not a great surprise, for me anyway). Rigs were supposed to be ways to make minor adjustments to your ship to personalise it and to give tweaking enthusiasts a playground (weren't they?). They were never intended to be required mods and to literally double a ships effectiveness based solely on their presence, as in the case of the Drake (less extreme examples including 3xfalloff setups etc.) Rigs are starting to become/have become required to be competitive in pvp, which is a worrying development imo. The Drake itself, which costs 30M maybe, is trivial compared to the cost of mods. When buying a Drake you don't mod your ship, you ship your mods. And I have a feeling 'Heat' is going to be a micromanagement nightmare. Ok going off topic slightly. Main points - 1) Fix general modding mechanics instead of nerfing and thinking that is equivalent to fixing. 2) Nerf Myrm you idiots! Far, far, more effective than Drake now even with stupid tank. Why do people always leave those democratic buffoons and their almost universally overpowered silly looking ships alone? 3) Make up some excuse to nerf Amarr generally (+40% laser cap usage across the board sounds fair) With regards to point 2, it's not just the Drake getting a shield nerf it's ALL the battlecruisers so that includes the Myrmidon,
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:56:00 - [27] Unless your Gallente, CCP hate you. Just another finger raised in the direction of missile ships.
Storm Strike	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:02:00 - [28] Edited by: Storm Strike on 21/05/2007 20:02:34 Originally by: AegriSomnia Originally by: Mathias Orsen The problem simply comes from having a ship that if not hit by more damage than it can sustain (wich is a high amount) the drake is invincible.... and invincibility is far from balance. Ummm....Isnt this true for everything in every game? If you cant do more damage than it can take, isnt ANYTHING invicible? Isnt a BS considered invincible to a NooB ship? I dont quite understand your point here. Thats funny. Are you comparing a t2 fit battleship's damage to a noobship's? Afterall we are talking about a battleship not able to kill a battlecruiser, not a battleship that cant be killed by a noobship.
Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:03:00 - [29] Hey guys did u actualy do the math ? Change will be that u still will be able to tank like mad man, but u won't be able to tank battleships (what is more likely right, just get over it that bcs are not meaned to tank battleship :\|). Soooo did i mention /S I G N E D ? --- Cheap paint ftw
Ima Gofor	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Alyth With regards to point 2, it's not just the Drake getting a shield nerf it's ALL the battlecruisers so that includes the Myrmidon, I know already - point accepted if that is all you wanted to bring up. But if you were suggesting that a shield recharge nerf will hurt Myrms as much or even anywhere remotely as much as Drakes, then that's a very silly argument to put it mildly. Again, this is only if that was what you were implying. Anyway, this is kind of thread-jacking - sorry.

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