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My Opinion - Stop Nerfing!!!

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JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:26:00 - [1] I have an idea. Stop the Nerf. How does this work - Each race has it's own class of ships. Each race gets new ships. If a new ship is a little to good or strong then the other race builds a ship to compensate for it. Now to keep inventory down the races retire their older ships. This does not mean they can't be used any more it just means that if they lose a ship it will be a lot harder for that ship to be replaced. I look at it this way here...This is just a game and needs to advance. Everytime an advancment is made somebody whines and here comes the bat. I saw the whine for speeding BS (sorry forgot which one it was). I continuously see a whine for NOS (me being Amarr - yeah Nos hurts but I will not whine I just fight accordingly). Now the uber-tank-Drake. Don't whine about them. Think be imaginative and come up with ways to beat the ships with issues. If you are 1on1 with a Drake call a buddy or leave it alone if you don't want to be there all day trying to kill it. One race should never be equal to another race. Now if this is not a strategy game please disregard all comments and I apologize for taking up your time.
Horatio Nately Caldari 808 Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:30:00 - [2] nerfing = the end result of response to a small group of people being clever, and that information somehow leaking --------------------------------------- CEO 808 Enterprises, A Hawaii, USA Playercorp Serving The Caldari State.
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2007.05.21 22:46:00 - [3] Originally by: JamnOne I have an idea. Stop the Nerf. How does this work - Each race has its own class of ships. Each race gets new ships. If a new ship is a little to good or strong then the other race builds a ship to compensate for it. Do you mean to boost the other races ships? In that case you waould have to boost all the other classes of ships to compensate. And the NPCs would need a boost as well. The end result would be the same as a nerf and it would take a lot more time and money. Or do you mean that the devs should spend huge amounts of time deigning testing and implementing new ships rather than make a small adjustment? Originally by: JamnOne Now to keep inventory down the races retire their older ships. This does not mean they can't be used any more it just means that if they lose a ship it will be a lot harder for that ship to be replaced. I assume you mean to take away the BPOs in order to do this. You think people complain now? Wait till you take their favorite ship away!! I can just see the forums... "DEVS BRING BACK RIFTER NOW!!!" Originally by: JamnOne I look at it this way here...This is just a game and needs to advance. Everytime an advancment is made somebody whines and here comes the bat. The Devs are adults. They donÆt nerf because of whines. They nerf and boost when they see a need to balance the game. Originally by: JamnOne I saw the whine for speeding BS (sorry forgot which one it was). I continuously see a whine for NOS (me being Amarr - yeah Nos hurts but I will not whine I just fight accordingly). Now the uber-tank-Drake. People whine, no getting around it. Just donÆt read the posts if it bothers you. I love to read the "nerf that" "boost this" posts. My favorites are the ones written by Caldari. As an Amarr only pilot there is nothing funnier to me than a Caldari crying that their ships aren't good enough. Even if the Drake were so bad that it was getting taken out by .6 belt rat spawns I think the Caldari still have no reason to complain. Originally by: JamnOne Don't whine about them. Think be imaginative and come up with ways to beat the ships with issues. If you are 1on1 with a Drake call a buddy or leave it alone if you don't want to be there all day trying to kill it. This is awesome!!! How about this, we give everyone except you a Jove ship. You gonna retain this way of thinking? I doubt it. If a ship is too good it needs a nerf. If a ship is too bad it needs a boost. While I agree that people should try to deal with these things on their own, itÆs just reasonable that there not be "ubberwtfomgpwnermobiles!!!!1!!eleven!!" in the game. Originally by: JamnOne One race should never be equal to another race. All races SHOULD be equal... but not the same. Originally by: JamnOne Now if this is not a strategy game please disregard all comments and I apologize for taking up your time. DonÆt apologize. You are Amarrian!!! Your job is to tell people what to think.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.21 23:04:00 - [4] Edited by: Aramendel on 21/05/2007 23:02:24 Originally by: JamnOne One race should never be equal to another race. What Mr Reeth said. Also, in addition to that: Lets look at the NPCing front. I think we can agree that the raven is by far the most used ship there. It certainly isn't the "same" as other races, but it also is not equal to them. It's simply more efficient. It's an imbalance. Not one which does much damage to the game or which is one where I particulary care about, but this does not remove it. Now imagine a similar imbalance on the PvP lvl. It would be even worse there. A NPCer with ship A does not care that much if someone with ship B does 10% more isk/hour than he does. Sure, he would be more efficient with ship B, but it does not hurt him directly. However, if PvPer with ship A continuously looses vs someone with ship B he will sooner or later switch to ship B. The competition is simply far greater there. So if the ships are not halfway equal there eventually 90%+ will fly the same ship. Somewhich which pretty much happened during the old gankgeddon days. How...fun. "Just apapt" is an empty argument here because if the only way to adapt are either A) spend more effort than the other side or B) just use the same ship most people choose B. Because it is the way with the best efficiency.
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2007.05.21 23:30:00 - [5] You know, if Caldari had just been the PvE race it would have been great. That would have been their role in the universe and all would have been well. But they were also given some great PvP ships... still no huge problem. But with this Teir 3 BS they have become a fleet race as well. Just look at their wonderful BSs. There are three very different ships filling three very different roles. Now look at all the other races BSs. Amarr BSs are pretty much all the same. And the other two races, to a lesser extent, have similar ships. Now I don't think Caldari should be nerfed, I just want to trade my charecter for a Caldari.
Tista	Posted - 2007.05.22 03:45:00 - [6] no one cares about your opinion so sit down and stfu... eat ur pie. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2007.05.22 03:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Horatio Nately nerfing = the end result of response to a small group of people being clever, and that information somehow leaking I totally agree with this sentiment. 95% of the time there isn't a problem with a ship, or with a module its just that the combination gets abused, and once its found to be successful it becomes one of very few things that are worth flying. If it was a small group of peopel no-one would care.
Zions Child Caldari The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2007.05.22 04:53:00 - [8] Edited by: Zions Child on 22/05/2007 04:51:31 nerfing does have a purpose, like Mr Reeth said, it is just easier for the devs. And the drake is faaaaar too powerful, it can tank T2 cruisers and T2 fitted battleships (albeit with very high shield skills, but whatever) it needs to be nerfed. It has become too powerful as a role for PvE. It sits in Lvl 4's! The ones meant for battleships! Thats like 300 more dps and what should be a huge difference in tank. I would not like EVE having the uber-drake-invincimobile, because it is pretty much useless. In 1v1 , both ships would be there forever. The drake cant do jack crap and nothing can do damage to the drake. They made a mistake, and made it overpowerful. I'm Caldari, im about to have a Drake built for me no less, and I dont care about the nerf. It just means the drake will be pput back in its place, with the rest of the bc's, minus the myrm ofc, but thats another post/rant _________________________________________________________________ Wrong! - Cortes YES! I HAD MY SIG EDITED! DEVS FTW!
Fortinbras 2047	Posted - 2007.06.17 00:42:00 - [9] In my opinion ppl need to stop whining. Yes the drake can tank thats a good thing seeing as how we suck at dmg we need to be good at something rather than keeping dust off the hanger floor. all my skills are ment for caldari if they keep nerfing us every time we get something good im going to have no choice but to train for a new race or quit eve cause all i see is a years worth of training going down the drain. With whats happening to the caldari due to whiners i dont see how the caldari/gallente war ended in a stail mate it seems to me that gallente should have pwnd them. Heres and idea how bout instead of nerfing us give us something good like em dmg resistance all other races get atleast 10% resistance to there lowest resistant why not us too or how bout instead of just 5% bonus to kinetic missle dmg we get that much for all dmg types seein as how every races ship has high resistance to kinetic it makes it quite useless for pvp and then when someone else whines about " caldari are to powerful they need to be nerfed" you, FOR A CHANGE, say F*** YOU. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP NERFING CALDARI!!!!
Captain Schmungles Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.06.17 01:52:00 - [10] No, continue the nerfs, just don't make the nerfs so dumb. For example, in Rev II there will be a shield recharge rate nerf for all battlecruisers. That's great if you're looking at balancing Drakes and Myrms, but bad if you look at a ship like the Ferox. Compared to the Drake, the Ferox is awful, and now you reduce it's ability to tank, thus making it even worse. Why not just nerf the recharge rate for the ships that you're concerned with (Drake and Myrm) and leave the other battlecruisers alone? That would be more efficient since you'd only change two ships, and it would address the issue at hand. Oh, and whoever said that Caldari ships are the best fleet ships out there...no. Sure, it would be a great fleet if you had nothing but Caldari ships (imagine all the ECM and missiles), but here's the catch: you get to tank damage while you watch your missiles float across space and curse as 1/3 of them get shot down by defenders. Hooray?

Williamine Amarr Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.17 08:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Zions Child Edited by: Zions Child on 22/05/2007 04:51:31 nerfing does have a purpose, like Mr Reeth said, it is just easier for the devs. And the drake is faaaaar too powerful, it can tank T2 cruisers and T2 fitted battleships (albeit with very high shield skills, but whatever) it needs to be nerfed. It has become too powerful as a role for PvE. It sits in Lvl 4's! The ones meant for battleships! Thats like 300 more dps and what should be a huge difference in tank. I would not like EVE having the uber-drake-invincimobile, because it is pretty much useless. In 1v1 , both ships would be there forever. The drake cant do jack crap and nothing can do damage to the drake. They made a mistake, and made it overpowerful. I'm Caldari, im about to have a Drake built for me no less, and I dont care about the nerf. It just means the drake will be pput back in its place, with the rest of the bc's, minus the myrm ofc, but thats another post/rant You want to nerf the Ishtar too? I do lvl4's with ease in my Ishtar, and no, I dont have any faction hardeners on it, just plain T2 stuff.
Taka Caldari Quam Singulari Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.17 09:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Fortinbras 2047 FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP NERFING CALDARI!!!! Hey!! i wud love for them to stop nerfing amarr but will it happen? i dunno. as you said at the top of your post stop whining
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.17 09:48:00 - [13] So rather than 'nerfing' you'd rather have FOTM power creep instead? Oh yeah, that'd make a better game.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.06.17 09:53:00 - [14] Free nerfs for everyone! 0/
Khamal Jolstien	Posted - 2007.06.17 18:35:00 - [15] Originally by: JamnOne I have an idea. Stop the Nerf. How does this work - Each race has it's own class of ships. Each race gets new ships. If a new ship is a little to good or strong then the other race builds a ship to compensate for it. Now to keep inventory down the races retire their older ships. This does not mean they can't be used any more it just means that if they lose a ship it will be a lot harder for that ship to be replaced. I look at it this way here...This is just a game and needs to advance. Everytime an advancment is made somebody whines and here comes the bat. I saw the whine for speeding BS (sorry forgot which one it was). I continuously see a whine for NOS (me being Amarr - yeah Nos hurts but I will not whine I just fight accordingly). Now the uber-tank-Drake. Don't whine about them. Think be imaginative and come up with ways to beat the ships with issues. If you are 1on1 with a Drake call a buddy or leave it alone if you don't want to be there all day trying to kill it. One race should never be equal to another race. Now if this is not a strategy game please disregard all comments and I apologize for taking up your time. QFT Absolutely. There are plenty of games being ruined by out of control nerfs. Please CCP, don't let this happen to EVE.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.06.17 19:02:00 - [16] Nerfing poisons the player community... And races should not be equal, ever. The balance should always be altering to favour someone, never equal, but who is on top should change from time to time, to keep things interesting. And what I really don't like about nurfin is the way it is done. Basically for every attack you have a few basic options. You can attempt to "dodge" it, avoid it. To move out of range or close enough for tracking to be a problem etc. Or you can "block" it, by using a module, defender missile, ECCM etc etc to stop the attack. Or you can "ignore" it. What really ****es me off is the fact that forum whine by some peeps whose chosen strategy to, say, ECM damp or capasitor attacks is to "ignore" said attacks and then they have the nerve to claim that said attacks are "overpowered" because their strategy of ignoring said attacks does not work. They reinforce their own strategy by changing getting the rules changed instead of adapting to the game at hand. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Kye Kenshin coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.17 19:07:00 - [17] Nerfing is Good. Learn to love the nerf. After nearly 3 years playing this game I can safely say in the long run that all the nerfs were good. But if you still disagree i'll have back my 8 ogre platerax thanks!
Slandark Voluntary Exiles Ground Zeero	Posted - 2007.06.17 19:19:00 - [18] We play a strategy game and I would rather find different ways to build MY ship to fight certain enemy ships as they arise. What I dont like is time I have spent along with my MONEY to figure out how to accomplish various things in the ships I fly only to have the game take it away. The people that dont like the Drake and its tank should figure out other ways to kill one. I have yet to see a Drake kill a Drake unless skills where lop sided. More equal pilots will probably run out of ammo before this stand off could ever happen. And dont get me on the DPS of a Drake. Balance - Nerf the tank of Drake then boost the DPS. Ill make you a sig if you ask
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.06.18 09:58:00 - [19] It's called balancing, ffs. Most people talking about 'nerf' don't have a clue and are simply biased. _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. -
Cpt Branko Partisan Warfare Ltd.	Posted - 2007.06.18 10:14:00 - [20] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/06/2007 10:14:42 You know, when you look at the nerf history in this game, it's quite obvious it's necessary. The future of all "I-Win" setups is that they will be nerfed sooner or later, in an attempt to foster diversity in the game. If there's one ship which is used for X role and is clearly better then all other ships for that role, it means that most of people who're inderested in doing X will use the ship. Some ships+setups are statistically overly used, and they can, of course, expect to be re-balanced sooner or later, because they're overly used for a reason. The BC shield recharge "nerf" every Drake pilot is complaining about is just a minor tweak, really. The "adapt to the present state" mentality you (and a number of other folks, as well) are proposing is redicilous: let's get all the overpowered setups since the start of EvE alive again, then! Look at things from a more historic perspective, and you'll see that you're just one of the whiners who want to preserve the present state instead of advancing EvE gameplay. BTW, having to rework (buff) the whole game to put a overpowered setup in it's proper place is so absurd, really. Do you have the slightest idea how much work would that require? Or how much would that **** people off, too?

Fedman Kasad Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.18 10:59:00 - [21] Edited by: Fedman Kasad on 18/06/2007 11:02:48 Some grand bull**** in this tread, hehe ^_^ To whoever think that "nerfing" is bad, poisoning the community, ruining the game, etc: Unreasonable nerfing, one without enough research put in it, etc - Yes, it's bad. Otherwise, BALANCING is absolutely needed in a PvP environment. Noone likes to be "pwnt" by something that is clearly imbalanced compared to others, in any game. He will either switch to using that thing aswell, quit the game alltogether or in rare cases just accept it and avoid confrontation with said "imba" element. That is why -every- online game gets tweaked all the time, so that everything is FAIR. Look at Starcraft, Quake, WoW, WC3, Diablo, EQ, UO, CS, UT... everything. Someone said races(in this case) shouldn't be equal - lol, ofcourse they should! Noone should ever feel as a "second hand person" just because they've made a bad choice on character creation. Rotating a "favoured" race will be a really bad business plan. Races should be balanced. Some races specialize in one thing, others in second... it's only normal. Gallente BS can be stronger than Matari, but then Matari FR can be stronger than Gallente's(for example). This kind of difference is OK. Other than that - no tnx. EVE is supposed to be most of all a game where player skill matters. Sadly, the very basic concept of the game - skill training - kind of negate that, since a player with sufficiently more SP than another will win 90% of the time, even if he is an idiot. And a new pilot has NO way of ever "catching up", those before him will ALWAYS be better, harder, faster... Yeah, in about a year you will be able to fly frigate equally well is everyone before you, but by that time they would be perfectioning BS or playing with carriers etc. We do not need another pre-set imbalance in the game, all races must be equally good choice. Also, everyone starts to cry when their favourite pwnmobile gets nerfed - stop the whine and suck it up. You were not supposed to be close to invincible in the first place. And keep in mind that no change is final. If something really gets nerfed instead of balanced, it will be tweaked again so it's up to par. As for the OP about buffing isntead of nerfing - not even gonna comment on that, it's way too ridiculous :) Keeping the balance is one of the most important and delicate jobs of every game developer. I for one appreciate it when devs invest time(and thus money) into it. I wouldn't play a vastly imbalanced game anyway. [-------------------------------------------------] Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world
Grunanca	Posted - 2007.06.18 11:01:00 - [22] I agree! Every nerf means lost training time for some people. Every nerf is a lot investment for some people. If EVE is to stay stable, people will have to know that their long time investments will stay the same and not be changed everytime some whining kid has been beaten. Tere is NO possible way to balance an MMO, and MMOs shouldnt be balanced! MMOs in general and especailly EVE are simply too complex to ever be balanced. If the nerfs continue, we will end up like SWG, and after playing that for almost 2 years I can say yes it got balanced, all classes are almost the same, all weapons have about same dps and all got fixed ranges so all classes have the exact same max range. THAT IS NOT FUN! That might be why that game went from the second largest on the market to a game filled with leet kids and else just empty servers. Stop the cries and play for god sake!
Fedman Kasad Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.18 11:11:00 - [23] Lost training time? Please... there is no skill in EVE that doesn't aid you in a way. The more you have, the better. Don't tell me that nanophoons took amazingly hard and specialized training that suddenly went down the drain when nanos were somewhat balanced. The current "hot spot" - crazy-tank drakes? Oh damn, you spent 6 months training shields(which you need anyway, especially as caldari) and now there is a risk of it losing it's invulnerability. Oh noes! Making ships/weapons equal is bad thing, certanly. But as you said, EVE is a really complex game, even if someone tried to do it, it would be impossible. [-------------------------------------------------] Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.06.18 11:35:00 - [24] ive said it many times before, if modules and ships get nerfed enough, there will be no variety left, every ship and setup will be cookie cutout setups that everyone can take 1 look at a ship and know exactly what its fitting. boring, unimaginative and mundane in otherwords. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Cpt Branko Partisan Warfare Ltd.	Posted - 2007.06.18 11:42:00 - [25] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/06/2007 11:42:04 Originally by: Xtro 2 I have said it many times before, if modules and ships get nerfed enough, there will be variety , every ship and setup will be useful so not everyone can take one look at a ship and know exactly what it is fitting. No more boring, unimaginative and mundane flavour of the month setups, in other words. Fixed it for you ;) There, even fixed the grammar!
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.06.18 11:49:00 - [26] I'm an Amarr pilot; you score 0 sympathy from me.
Fortinbras 2047	Posted - 2007.06.19 21:20:00 - [27] Ok so... i would like to apologize for my former post i was a bit upset that day and when i got the word of caldari getting nerfed again i used that as an excuse to go off about something. I take back my statement about nerfing caldari.it was a bit hipocritical ( if thats how you spell that) of me to say stop whinning and then i whined. again sorry. everyone in eve is going to get nerfed in someway it wasnt until i looked at it from others stand point that i relized yes the drake does have a too good of a tank and its annoying to spend 500k worth of ammo on a ship and not even scratch it. So nerfing it does make it more even with other ships. Now all ships and equipment in eve are going to get nerfed at some point in time and then sooner or later it will either go back to the way it was, be even better, or they will do something to make it usefull again. Its just a matter of time. So please stop whining its goin to happen wether you like it or not. And yes I will take my own advice this time. As far as an advancement go thoe along with a much needed improvement with the amarr problems id really like to see the caldari get a 5% bonus to all dmg types to make them a little more of a challenge on the battlefield. Please by all means give me your opinion on that. again sorry for the recent out burst.
Elspeth Vigneron Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.06.19 21:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Horatio Nately nerfing = the end result of response to a small group of people being clever, and that information somehow leaking Err. I'd say it's the response of a small group of people who didn't think things out and the unexpected results made a cookie-cutter situation where all the min-maxxers headed and in order to promote at least some diversity in play, they've forced the issue. Phoenix Logistics Industries 01010000010100100100010101010000010000010101001 00100010100100000010101000100111100100000010001 000100100101000101001011000010000
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.06.21 07:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/06/2007 11:42:04 Originally by: Xtro 2 I have said it many times before, if modules and ships get nerfed enough, there will be variety , every ship and setup will be useful so not everyone can take one look at a ship and know exactly what it is fitting. No more boring, unimaginative and mundane flavour of the month setups, in other words. Fixed it for you ;) There, even fixed the grammar! no-one likes a smartarse, and no, i dont see anything fixed, if you want to voice an opinion, voice your own and do not twist mine. cheers. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.21 08:20:00 - [30] "modules are fine. boost/nerf players." --- truth about EVE: Originally by: Cpt Branko "Guns are fine, boost players"



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