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Saragael	Posted - 2007.05.23 12:31:00 - [1] It is dfunny that people think this post is news. During the SF war with KD the Star fraction not only supported pirate operations but openly endorsed them and worked with them. They made no pretense to hide a direct alliance with a known pirate group. There is no spin on this statement of fact purely. That being said why anyone would think that calling SF a pirate organization is news is beyond me. thats like saying there is a news flash PIE supports the Amarr. it is common knowledge and factual.
Saragael	Posted - 2007.05.23 14:12:00 - [2] The arguement of not support but not oppsoing would work except past actions are to the contrary. In the war with KD, SF not only supported operations with the pirates but planned them and executed them. Even going so far as to include them in their planning over the long term. So the cry of not supporting seems hollow when the history of SF is looked at.
Saragael	Posted - 2007.05.23 17:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Nekumi Originally by: Saragael The arguement of not support but not oppsoing would work except past actions are to the contrary. In the war with KD, SF not only supported operations with the pirates but planned them and executed them. Even going so far as to include them in their planning over the long term. So the cry of not supporting seems hollow when the history of SF is looked at. You got some proof to go along with those ridiculous allegations or are you just teasing me? Not an Allegation but a statement of fact. KD pilots where fully aware and SF made no effort to hide the colaberation between the pirates in the Mito constellation and SF forces. SF in fact used a tournament as a quise to hide a meeting of the priate leadership within the Constellation and worked with that leadership in removing KD from the region to free up pirate activity. This is not a series of allegation but of facts that Constantine as well as others bragged about to KD pilots. I have spoken with former members of Infinite Dreams and gotten details of how the pirate CEO worked out peace with ID withdrew from KD based on the approval of SF for the peace. I have spoken with members of CAIN that where in fleet actions and discussions with SF when it was actively bragged about the joint operations they undertook. However that is okay, the entire cluster knows the truth and spin cannot change the facts.
Saragael	Posted - 2007.05.23 17:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Nekumi We work with pirates when we have a common enemy which is all to common when fighting statists, nationalists and imperialists. We have never been a party to piracy either with pirate groups or by ourselves. That is the simple truth as has been stated multiple times in this thread without spin or obfuscation. So let me be sure I can understand, you openly plan an operation with a known pirate organization for the intent purpose of removing the single law enforcing organization in the constellation. The reason for this removal is to allow the pirates a freer hand to take advntage of the weaker people of the region. Knowing this full well you actively particiapte and provide direct assistance in this action. Once the constellation is free for pirates to *****and pillage the people there you leave them to this mess and thus enslave them to a priate group but yet have freed them from a governement that allowed them free and open trade. You call this not providing support? You call allowing pirates free reign setting the people of a constellation free? Your explainations and efinitions smack of pure lie and your conviction ring hollow. True you may not be the pirate, you are worse, you lie to people to give them hope then sell them out once you are done with them. I did not realize till now how trully PATHETIC SF was.
Saragael	Posted - 2007.05.23 19:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Spoken from a faceless pretender with neither name or reputation. You are too cowardly to show us your true affilitations and you call us Pathetic? Quite the twisting of reality there Saragael. Try harder. My true affiliations are to god and Empire, I have never changed those nor do I hide them, so where is this cowardice you speak of? You question me because I have set my work soley to the Empire and not having joined another organization? If your poor brusied ego would need to soothed by my moving where you could openly attack me, I would be happy to do so. I do not need to twist reality, the turth is something that is absolute, written in the frabice of the universe and cannot be changed. If you dislike the truth then that is between you and universe but the truth will not change no matter how you wish it to be so. Your movement is a poor excuse to hide behind in an effort to make yourself more important than you are. I do not seek my own importance, I have none, I am a lowely servent of God and happy in that role. I simple point to the truth and that is what you fear! It is not guns you fear, death means nothing to you because of clones. You fear the one thing you cannot control and will not be able to stop, that others will see your pathetic lies and attemtps at nobility for the travesty they are. You speak of changing minds and ideas yet when confront with ideas that counter you, you resort to brute force. This is the truth of SF, cosmic bullies that try to be noble when they are petty thugs. Worse than pirates for they not only lie to others but themselves. If my cowardice as you say is my affiliation then iw ill open it so you may have your shot. I do not fear death, I do not fear losing a ship, I fear only that God will think less of me for not standing for him and there is NOTHING you can do with that fear.
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.23 22:50:00 - [6] Edited by: Saragael on 23/05/2007 22:54:22 Constantine, you say I was hiding well I am hiding now more, the Qodesh Tsdaqah has formed. I am loyal to God and EMPIRE and NO ONE or anything can change that. My heart, my soul my all is for GOD. I await you unless you feel one small warrior of God is to much for the mighty SF. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 00:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine So what? A one man corporation is no threat to anyone really AAHHH I see it is easy to question the courage of someone until called on it and then when you must prove it you back down, okay that is easily understood. Actually I do understand, like PIE consiered SF insignificant and not worthy of direct attention so you consider me. After all i cannot effect your operations much as you could not effect PIE and in the great scheme of themes I am sure I am a minor irritant at best much as PIE consider SF. However... It seems to me when those matters where pointed you you basically said they where all lies and that PIE actually feared SF... hmmm perhaps you where correct after all... However I am willing to help, if you fear me I am happy to limit my activity to smaller ships so your forces stand a chance and will even make the war dec mutual so that the limited resources of your poor little group is not stretched to thin. I will also limit the number of ships I kill to allow you to not have to absorb to many loses. But if you do not have the courage to back your convictions with words.. I understand.. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 01:29:00 - [8] Edited by: Saragael on 24/05/2007 01:26:51 Originally by: Raznarok Your a disgrace to our empire. If your going to gank, do it against something that can fight back. You are correct in that I should pick a tougher target but I have yet to gain experience and so I felt led to start with a soft target, what better than a paper tiger? ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 02:22:00 - [9] Originally by: Ituralde Saragael, are you saying that given the opportunity you would fire on us? HMM would appear some where the education system failed, i would think that I had already made that clear but consider you abandon your people and God for the pathetic existence in SF I should not be surpirsed at limited intelligence. Quote: In the meantime though, feel free to whine alongside the various CVA flunkies.. Do not recall doing any whining, only recall pointing out truth and Constantine calling me a coward for not being where retaliation could be done, i am there now and yet another excuse for no direct confrontation exists. It seems SF does not feel it has the power to actually break even a single man and thus hides further within it's lies and then tries to spin it as the fault of the single man. I am here and have no fear, your ideals are a joke and your convictions are bought like a cheap gallantee prostitute. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Ituralde So, are you just a loudmouth like any other, or can you back up your own beliefs with action? I think I know the answer. Oh now I see how it works, we call people cowards and then when they step forward we aagin set more conditions on confronting them and call them names again for not meeting our conditions. This is the might and power of the convictions that is SF. Besides I did not speak to a lackie about this. If SF is scared of a one man corporation then that is okay, I would fear one true warrior of God that was spurred by his convictions as well. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:00:00 - [11] Edited by: Saragael on 24/05/2007 10:58:44 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Saragael But if you do not have the courage to back your convictions with words.. I understand.. You have to pay if you want to play. You know where the wardec button is. AHHH I see you call someone out, they step forward to the call and now they must pay for your calling out. You hide behind words very pretty but seem to lack the courage to back them. I offered to make the wardec mutual for you, but you expect a new single pilot to foot the bill for an alliance wide wardec? My either SF is broke or thier leadership full of cowardice. Are you prostitutes that only do your work for money or idealists that actually can stand for their convictions even at the risk of lose? Perhaps the convictions of one that WELCOMES you attacks and knows he will stand is to much for you to deal with. The glory of God is shown, He is my shield and my sword. My enemies may howl in rage but thier weapons are made nothing and their hearts filled with fear, GLORY TO GOD! ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:27:00 - [12] Originally by: The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction, Ushra'Khan and CVA all work with piratical entities, against their own enemies, in the furtherance of their ideological goals. That anyone would be surprised by this or consider it extraordinary is simply bemusing. So you are saying the preplanned diversion of Caldari forces in Mito by the use of a tournament for the express purpose of allow the Pirate leadership to meet and discuss how to better exploit the people of the region was in fact a simple act of working with pirates against a common foe? This common foe then was the people of the Mito constellation? Now realize I understand your position clearly and am not discussing the attack of common war targets but rather a deliberate and planned support of a pirate infrastrucutre that would effect ALL outside the war target. Your claims sound hollow when put in that context. As doe your claims of being against the state run interests yet your pilots and organization support those interests daily in an effort to gain finances. Your convictions lack any real basis they seem to twist in the wind like a childs toy to suit your needs of the moment. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 13:52:00 - [13] Edited by: Saragael on 24/05/2007 13:51:29 Originally by: The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction did not take part in any discussions on how to 'exploit the people of the region'. While you may not have taken part you do not seem to deny that you planned and executed an operationt hat facilitated such talks. Just because you did not pull a trigger to kill a man makes you know less guilty of his murder than if you sold the murder a gun with FULL knowledge of it's intended use. In this case while not activiely engaged in the actions or discussions you readily provided assistsnace knowing the outcome in the long term plans and such you are as responsable as those executing them, you enabled them. Quote: The Star Fraction did not render support to pirates in the commission of hostilities against neutrals then and have not done so before or since. Of course you did, you worked with them to end the existence of the local forces that kept the pirates at bay. You claimed to seek freedom for all yet the ones that allowed everyone, except pirates free passage where the ones you attacked. Which is worse in inhibitting freedom, the man the allows all that do not harm to innocents free passage or the one that kills any that passes through a gate based on a whim and tribute, which really does restrict freedom. Your calls for freedom free NO ONE but the pirates and you claim you do not support them. Your support is more vital to them than drug and sex trade. Quote: I do not know what claims you think are hollow. Your claim to support everyones right to make a free choice. the only free choice you allow everyone is the one you deem worthy. Quote: We are not anti-pirates and have never claimed to be such. We strongly support neutrals taking up arms to defend themselves and let us be quite clear on one point: if entities neutral to us defend themselves from or attack any pirate group we are working with they will not come under fire from us unless they first aggress our pilots. On the surface this might sound noble and good but you failed to mention the ones you are shooting at are the ones that where protecting those nuetrals. helping them to enjoy the freedom to explore space without fear of some scum attacking them unprovoked. But thats okay we did not shoot the nuetrals you say, we only made sure others could do so. Quote: We do not support any hostile action by any other entity against those who are neutral to us. You help remove those that stop them from shooting nuetrals at random, you help them not get cuaght in patrols that seek to protect neutrals because those patrols are being made by those that stop the pirates. You do all this to free the nuetrals and yet only end the end free the pirates to prye on the helpless and you claim you provide no support? Quote: What people have a difficulty with is the fact that we assign the status of friend, neutral or hostile to other entities solely and simply on the basis of how they have acted with respect to us or on the basis of strategic and ideological considerations that we judge affect us. This is not correct you profit from the work your people do to SUPPORT the staes and then attack those that do so openly and claim it is to stop them from effecting you? Your entire organization openly supports the state, they make no effort to hide this. Look at the standing your peope have with state sanctioned coproations and even military. You do not stand on your convictions you change them on your whim. You say you want state sanctioning stopped and yet you support it yuorselves. Show me your convictions, actually live them. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 13:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Sable Schroedinger Originally by: Tharrn Someone must have hit a nerve - the SF forum ganksquad has been called in. This must be an attempt to avoid combat in space - Amarr village has loosed its idiots. perhaps I am the village idiot, but I am not the comosic coward. I do not call out a person and call them coward for hiding where I cannot retaliate and then when they stop forward duck. Constantine has done this. I am here, i am not in a corporation you cannot warddec or attack, I am a sole man that stands before you ready to call you trash and back it. Do you step forward as you implied you would if you could. NO, now it is on me to step forward. You speak big words and then hide behind new issues of your own invention. I offer to make the wardec mutual so you do not suffer a financial hardship and yet you duck. I am a coward because I will not take a second step after taking the first. You called I answer, rather than metting me you run and ask me to chase. All hail SF the big cosmic joke. Note how one man shows the power of God. One man with nothing but his faith has forced SF to hide from their own words and use lies and insults to try to keep others from seeing them flee. Behold the true power of God and conviction, behold what it truly is to be Amarr! ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Nekumi Edited by: Nekumi on 24/05/2007 14:08:57 You do realise that reptition of the same falsehoods and lies won't somehow make them true, no matter how hard you clench your buttocks and wish for it to be so. What falsehood do you speak of, show me the lie I have told. Quote: You have repeatedly and blatantly ignored the actual content of any and all responses to your questions and responded in kind with increasingly rabid responses. I have not ignored the content I have pointed out how you are twsiting things and shone the pure light of God's Holy Truth on them. Quote: but you sir, are beyond hope. This is where you are most wrong, I am full of hope, for God is still god and nothing SF or the Minmatar can do will change that. he is my hope and my guidance. Quote: Enjoy your empty threats and in-effectual hand-wringing from the sidelines. Hopefully we will meet in space someday if you ever do get the courage you so acclaim. I see, SF will speak high words but lacks the true coruage of their convictions to back them. You want to change the way the universe things but fear trying to change one man with god on his side. Perhaps you are not fools. You should fear God and those that walk with him. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:42:00 - [16] A bully is one that tries to scare another into backing down. They make threats and call names and then if need be they find someone to punch. To defeat a bully however is actually easy. You do not let him have the control or the initiative. You call his bluff and force him to stand his ground. When you do he will run and try to hide behind his words every time. SF has shown this day they are a pathetic bully. I and others speak out against the TRASH they try to pass as truth. We show the flaws in their logic. First they try to argue, losing that they try to call us down, losing that they threaten to retaliate but then complain because we are not where they can retaliate. At this point they typically ignore the person in question becuase they lacked the courage to step out into the light and say here I am. This day things have changed for Star Fraction. I was called out and I did not shrink down and step away. i do not hide behind the legalities of Concord and take my pot shots. I stand in the light and defy your darkness. i am here for all to see and hear. I have answered your challenege and now you try to hide. You make excuses and then dance away. You think this makes you look above it all but it does not it makes you look pathetic. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:03:00 - [17] Edited by: Saragael on 24/05/2007 15:02:07 Originally by: Nekumi There have been no threats, there has been no running, there has been no backing down. . So you are saying Constantine has NEVER said to a pilot fresh from graduation that disagreed that if they want to move to a real corporation she would be happy to deal with them? You do not consider that a threat or a challenge? I have accepted that challenge and stepped forward, yet now I see that SF will not directly confront me but agains wants me to do for them first, that is not backing down? Now instead of Constantine or someone of authority stepping up to stand before this matter they allow their court jesters to do it while they are suddenly unable to respond, that is not running? Call it and me what you like the universe sees the truth. Spin it how you like the universe sees the truth. I have not spoken a falshood or said I lie all i have done is bring your own words and actions back for you to face in the light of day. As with all evil once in the light of God it begins to falter, just as SF is now faltering. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Nekumi I think you misunderstand what she meant by a real corporation Saragael. I know it may seem like we only target galnet strumpets after our recent campaigns against PIE, but it takes more than a few posts on galnet to actually register on our radar. Ahh I see so I am benieth your notice becuase I am a single man that things you asre all fools. Yet I recall when PIE declared you benieth their notice you called them liars and declared them cowards.. HHHmm Interesting how easily you can twist circumstances to suit your particular meaning. Dont worry I will help you see me more clearly soon. I will make a proper post shortly but for effect here ANY Amarr organization that is fighing SF and needs recon work may contact me and I will provide it as quickly as possible. For that matter as long as ANY Amarr groups are under attack by SF I will provide the recon and intel for free to ANY group attacking SF, even Minmatar. I am here to stay lacky and you can pass that along to your boss. tell her to quit hidding under her desk and know that a man that is loyal to God and Empire will stand between SF and the Empire in any way that I can. I may lack the finances for a war dec but I do not lack the determination to work for God. In the mean time I will also be sure to frequent every thread SF has to find the lies they have told and shine light upon them, unravelling the twisting of words you do. This will end when SF removes itself from Amarr affairs.. So keep the faith, young pilot. Your time may come, just not yet. If you just want to lose a few hulls or try to count coup against a few of the Star Fractions finest come to Mista and you will have all the duels you like. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:59:00 - [19] Originally by: Nekumi At the moment, you are just one man full of bluster and rebuke. If you really want a reaction do something of note in space. If you just want some attention, come to Mista. We shall see, btw I am in Mista and see no threat here. I guess you are not the might warrior group I hear of. However feel free to hide your fear behind your words and do not stand for what you say. We all see the truth and the Light of God will reveal more. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 16:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Nekumi I'm currently planet bound on Mista VI. I'll be in space later tonight, hopefully I'll see you then. I will be happy to pass along intel on you and all your friends to all interested parties. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 17:14:00 - [21] Edited by: Saragael on 24/05/2007 17:14:56 My it is amazing how this has switched from being called a coward to not being in a place they could respond to now having to meet their other terms for them to take any action. I do not seek a duel which is about personal glory. I seek SF to remove itself from attacks on Amarr interests. I will not waste my time with your petty tripes to besmirch me by trying to make this personal, it is not. This is a matter of your alliance as a whole. I ignore your duel in the same way your pilots ignored my dropped gauntlet today. Out numbered 2 to 1 and yet I held the field with my can floating there for them to take the challenge. Duels are about personal posturing in the end so i will not be swayed by that sin again. This is about something greater than my personal honor or pride and greater than anything SF can accomplish. This is about standing firm in my faith and doing the work of God. Your duel there fore is to little and thus beneath my notice just as your leaders claim I am. If you want to call me a coward then do so to your alliance that will not accept the challenge they indirectly have issued to many dispite being well at the advanatage. Call me anything you desire but remember your own words mean you are judged by the same stick you use to judge me and in this case by a greater measure. As I stated above I will now go and seek penance in prayer for my sin. My sin was to take this battle for God and the Empire and try to make it somehow about me when I offered challenge to a single person. This is a much greater cause and when I accept such simple single terms I diminish the message. I will return after my prayers. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:03:00 - [22] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Qodesh Tsdaqah are now set hostile to the Star Fraction on the grounds of its CEO's intention to engage in hostilities and intelligence-sharing against us if he is able. I thought the public was fairly aware of the status but if you feel the need to tell everyone, the same was done to all Star Fraction corporations about 4 hours ago on the part of Qodesh Tsdaqah. As well as the fact I have already begun providing intel for all that wish it. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Kovid I am responsible for myself. As you should be for oneself, as should everyone. When one takes responsibility for ones actions then one can lift themselves up just as children must learn to walk for themselves. There is an old saying, one man with a cause can move a boulder, but many with a cause can move a mountain. ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:19:00 - [24] In the combat arena of ideas it would appear that the ONLY weapon in the SF arsenal is childish insults. You confront their arguments with logic, you are a loon. You show where they have lied you are a nut. You establish where they deviate from their stated ideals you are a liar. For a "movement" that is based on changing the way people think it would seem you are not properly equipped. However calling SF a movement does seem appropriate, the stench of it does fit most movements I have had in my life. it would seem then if we can find an anti-diarrhea medicine for pilots we could destroy SF once and for all. Excuse me now while I go wash my hands, having just dealt with the SF movement, this one was kind of runny. *BTW for those in SF that take the above as a joke or insult my apologies, it is really just a truth the rest of the universe knows.* ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Derran Maybe if you go out and do something to make a mark upon the universe like Star Fraction has You mean a "skid" mark right .. Originally by: Khavi Vetali From the view of someone who's refrained from commenting in this thread until now, the only mess you've dirtied yourself with is a personal one. Sorry, but disparaging others while attempting to take the moral high ground doesn't work. It only leaves you holding your own **. Khavi, you are correct and if I where attempting to take a moral high ground with SF I would be in a mess right now. however since SF called me out and then has declined to dec me, I must fight them in areana of words. Since this level of arguement is about the best they can muster I strove to keep it a fair fight for them. ====================================== Saragael** "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."
Saragael Amarr Qodesh Tsdaqah	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Derran I think it is more that you are not worth the effort that they decline to. You mean such as PIE did with them. PIE considered SF not worth their attention and so ignored them. However if I recall SF responded to this by saying PIE was lying and the real reason was fear. Now SF are known to lie as much if not more than ANY organization so using their own logic this must mean that their reasoning is a lie to hide fear. Excellent job pointing that out Derran ====================================== Saragael "Rejoice not my enemy when I have fallen, for I shall arise and God shall be my light out of the darkness."

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