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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Dodona
Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.05.30 21:10:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Dodona on 30/05/2007 21:08:46 I had an armor rep module that wouldn't overload by clicking on the overload button on top of the module, though I could still overload it by right-clicking. I can't reproduce or fix this; has anyone else experienced this issue and do you have any ideas?
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
Techmart Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.30 23:26:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Dodona Edited by: Dodona on 30/05/2007 21:08:46 I had an armor rep module that wouldn't overload by clicking on the overload button on top of the module, though I could still overload it by right-clicking. I can't reproduce or fix this; has anyone else experienced this issue and do you have any ideas?
Yes it is a bug that the toggle function doesn't work if another module is placed directly above it. Just move the modules around a bit so you got some empty space and it will work.
Btw, nice to see the MWD can be overloaded now.
Signature approved by Eldo |
Ladyah Liandri
VMF-214 Blacksheep
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Posted - 2007.05.31 08:06:00 -
[63]
Originally by: smallgreenblur Few things:
I like the speed with which heat starts affecting your modules, but I think they should be slower to take damage.
Can we redo the numbers on my artillary so I can actually read how much ammo I have left.
Can we have an 'overload all' option similar to the 'reload all' option.
sgb
/double signed
At least in 1600 x 1200 resolution the ammunition icons overlap the numbers of rounds left.
BTW: Who was the genius again who brought up the "white text on light gray background looks just great" idea?
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Ruoska
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Posted - 2007.05.31 09:21:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Ruoska on 31/05/2007 09:21:48 I played around with HEAT in test server, and I didn't like it. All the reasons are included already in this thread.
What I would like to have, however, is a configuration that completely hides the HEAT in my client - restoring more readable module buttons and preventing me from accidentally putting the suicidal overloading/HEAT on.
I know it's work in progress, but it's so far from anything I personally will use at the moment, that I seriously doubt any fine tuning changes my willingness to utilize it.
Don't read this as whine-whine-it-sucks, this is genuine and honest wish to retain more readable module buttons as they now are in TQ. Knowing the ammo left is potentially a useful information
edit: I play with 1920x1200 resolution...
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.31 09:50:00 -
[65]
I tried Heat a bit, I was flying an Ishkur, I had two modules I wanted to overload : -1mn MWD II, I overloaded it, the heat began going up in the med slots, but the modules began taking damage very early, The heat in the med slots reached 50% and my mwd exploded... If heat is at 50%, it isn't critical, if it isn't critical, why did it took damage? -Small Armor Repairer II, The heat maybe went up to 40% and it took heavy damage and exploded.
I thought it was quite straightforward, when heat at max, modules take damage, but if they take damage before the max heat and we have no real indicator of when and how it will take damage. It seems very random... I'll go back test a bit more, I liked much the speed gained on the mwd, but disliked much how the armor repairer exploded at what seems not so high heat level. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Happy owner of a Vexor Navy Issue and few ishkurs. The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon ! |
Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.05.31 14:09:00 -
[66]
so let me get this streight: 1) if heat is at 100% modules begin taking damage, correct? 2) all modules of the same fiting line overheat when u activate one, but at a slower rate, correct?
i sofar only manage to blow my own modules up rather than acctually achieve something: i wanted to overload a brutix with standard pvp fitting in the mids (mwd, cap booster, scram, web) so i activated the mwd, than clicked on overload. at this point nothing happened i had to wait for the mwd cycle to complete after which overdrive was on and the speedboost kicked in. a blink of an eye later (1 mwd cycle iirc), the other 3 mid modules start gaining heat. i try to dectivate the mwd overdrive, but have to await the cycle, by the time it finishes, the scram and the booster have overheated, got damaged and are offline, but the mwd itself is still functional. weird...
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Mysterlee
Gallente 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.31 18:40:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Chi Quan so let me get this streight: 1) if heat is at 100% modules begin taking damage, correct?
No, they get damaged at random percentages by random amounts and usually kill off most of your modules after 2 cycles at the most...
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Nisse Owned
The Order of Chivalry
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Posted - 2007.05.31 19:16:00 -
[68]
Something that came to my mind when playing with this... Please add a moving light around the module to show how much of a cycle is left, i get annoyed at miners with 3 minutes cycle so i can imagine siege mode, and especially cyno can be hard to keep track of when you activated it
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Erim Solfara
Amarr Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.05.31 21:06:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Also, will we have modules much like cap boosters but filled with coolant?
I really like the idea of using coolant.
The current design where modules will get totally destroyed is interesting but sucks in a world with lag. Even if you do manage to survive a skirmish you can bet every module will pop as you won't be able to disable the overload in time.
A different approach would be to have heat per module and not damage. The heat will start to build up as soon as you activate the overloading and when it reaches 100% the module will get emergency offlined by the ships computer. Now to prevent the offlining to occur you have two options, stop the overloading (boring) or click on another button next to the module that make the module consume coolant from the cargohold and slowly cool it down. Different modules should consume different amount of coolant (tech 3 could get higher overload bonus but consume more coolant in the process for example).
This would add a nice second layer of micro management of a ship in combat, not only manage cap but also overload/coolant. Now if the lag monster would show up but not kill you all you have to do is go to a safe and slowly put each module online again.
And since everyone and their dog will be keen on having a set amount of coolant with them you can either make it an ice product or make it so it's only sold by NPCs in lowsec.
I have a problem with this, and it's the same one I have with cap boosters.
Cargohold should not equal positive combat ability (as far as I'm concerned). Also, it'll negate any racial bonuses to heat disapassion (same as cap boosters > cap amount/recharge).
New ship class |
Yorick Downe
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Posted - 2007.06.01 01:41:00 -
[70]
I was playing around with heat on Sisi. I think I may have found a bug. Manticore with 1MN MWD I. Overload the MWD, the Manticore speeds up to beyond its usual speed (1239 m/s in my case). Turn heat off again. Manticore keeps going at 1239m/s for a good long while, although I can see the module reactivating (eating cap / cycling). I'd understand keeping my speed for 1 cycle, but beyond? Eventually it goes back down to 928 m/s.
Hmm, it's not just heat. When I run out of cap, my Manticore keeps flying merrily ahead at 922 m/s, although MWD is most definitely shut off.
I've either found a bug or massive lag on Sisi :). Hmm, changing direction drops speed to 267m/s. I've just been looking at the display - maybe it's just a display issue, not an actual "your speed is still this high" issue? Testing again by estimating my gain towards an object - that's display, not actual speed. Still worth fixing.
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Kodiak31415
An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.01 01:59:00 -
[71]
I admit that I was looking foward to heat. It sounded like a good way to fine tune your ship, but instead it looks like a great way to kill your modules.
And eve just got a little more bloated. _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot |
MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.01 02:22:00 -
[72]
""If the ship getting ganked is getting a 15-20% boost across the board through heat overloading, what stops every ship in the gank squad from overloading their guns/ships damage by 15-20% for one volley? The risk of module shutdown because you used it once is low. Your ship is probably going to survive long enough for you to dock and repair it, if it does. Isn't it kind of naive to expect any less from kill-*****s rushing to get on a mail? The combined offensive output will far outweigh the combined defensive benefit, making heat a better tool for one-volley sniping runs, speed gankers and other "fast pvp"."" after reading the above I relised something why would overclock offence to the brim under normal curcumtances.. I mean I guess like a get him quick men! but it feels like maybe offence should get more of a boost than offence.
or do the numbers allready give more of a benifit to defenvise overclocking?
P.s. this give matar an interesting abilty to be able to overclock guns even when at 0 cap
maybe matar ships should be bad at heat while ammar are great? I fly matar
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.01 03:55:00 -
[73]
Originally by: MotherMoon ""If the ship getting ganked is getting a 15-20% boost across the board through heat overloading, what stops every ship in the gank squad from overloading their guns/ships damage by 15-20% for one volley? The risk of module shutdown because you used it once is low. Your ship is probably going to survive long enough for you to dock and repair it, if it does. Isn't it kind of naive to expect any less from kill-*****s rushing to get on a mail? The combined offensive output will far outweigh the combined defensive benefit, making heat a better tool for one-volley sniping runs, speed gankers and other "fast pvp"."" after reading the above I relised something why would overclock offence to the brim under normal curcumtances.. I mean I guess like a get him quick men! but it feels like maybe offence should get more of a boost than offence.
or do the numbers allready give more of a benifit to defenvise overclocking?
P.s. this give matar an interesting abilty to be able to overclock guns even when at 0 cap
maybe matar ships should be bad at heat while ammar are great? I fly matar
Tanking modules overload better due to the nature of the inverse relationship with damage taken.
I.E.
Active hardener prevents 55% dmg, 45% dmg gets past. Overloaded it prevents 60.5% dmg, 39.5% dmg gets past. This is a 13.92% difference[I.E. you take 14% more dmg when not overloaded]. Which is about equal to guns overloading. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.01 05:52:00 -
[74]
Like many other things, Heat seems ill-conceived. At best it's just going to mean sometimes you win unexpectedly, but that's stupid because the damage applied to modules is random - the game decides if you win or not in a highly intrusive manner.
A much better way of doing Heat would simply be to get rid of the all the random mechanics and make it highly ordered and predictable, changing it into more a logistics consideration.
What this means is, every module would have a defined number of hitpoints as they do now, and when overloaded would take damage at a defined rates. All modules would automatically stop overloading (but not cycling) if the next overloaded cycle would destroy them (and graphically indicate as such).
A module that is then one overload cycle away from destruction can then be overloaded for a one-shot 'double bonus' but is then guaranteed to be destroyed afterwards.
This would be a much more tactical system, since module behavior while in the overloaded state would be predictable. It would add tactical considerations to the use of overload modules because obviously during a fight there will be times when it is advantageous to overload compared to others - for example boosting your nosferatu would be good if your cap dips below the max recharge point, or if damage is leaking through to hull for an armor repairer etc.
Furthermore, the "last overload" bonus, behaving in a predictable fashion, would both add advantage to burning out modules and be yet another consideration about whether you need that last overload cycle.
Finally, predictable module damage would add "wear and tear" to fleets that spend extended time in the field. Short uses of overloaded modules would cause general damage to build up across a fleet, and so to retain effectiveness a fleet would need to exchange the damaged modules on their ships for either new ones, or dock and repair their modules.
tl;dr 1. Make overloading modules consistently zap some HP from them for each cycle.
2. Overload stops when the next cycle would destroy a module.
3. Re-overloading after this results in guaranteed module death, but greatly increased bonus to the overloaded module (double or triple the normal overload bonus).
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William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.01 06:19:00 -
[75]
Hmmm, Heat seems pretty broken seeing as the heat bars do nothing except look nice.
As I've said before, modules shouldn't take damage until heat reaches 100%, mabye the heat could fill up a bit faster too, but as it is now it's just ludicrous.
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24h01
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Posted - 2007.06.01 06:29:00 -
[76]
Originally by: William Hamilton As I've said before, modules shouldn't take damage until heat reaches 100%
...so true my friend.
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Santa Anna
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Posted - 2007.06.01 06:36:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Santa Anna on 01/06/2007 07:13:10 I tested a crow on Sisi a while ago with my character. He has pretty minimal inty/mwd skills at the time of the mirror, no implants, and no rigs.
He got about 7km/s out of a best named mwd and a couple overdrives.
While this was ridiculously awesome, I worry about how heat may effect other carefully balanced aspects of the game.
----
Just played around a bit with electronic warfare and heat and that's pretty cool. +20% to scrams, +30% to webs, +20% to ecm strength.
BTW, it looks like heat works like this (if this has been covered explicitly somewhere I missed it)
-you can preheat your modules without taking any damage. modules being preheated appears to change how much damage they can absorb, however... -once you start using your overloaded modules, they appear to essentially throw "darts" at the modules sharing the same heat pool, with the modules randomly hit (regardless of overloading or heat) taking damage.
As a result, it may make sense to overload modules with relatively small damage on the same rack with some damage-sink module that you don't overload. For example, it looks like nos has a higher damage tolerance than blasters so if you wanted to make a gank thorax you may overload 4x blasters and use a non-overloaded nos to soak heat.
This is really cool, though I'm not convinced it will be practical. |
mamolian
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:51:00 -
[78]
Ever played freespace 1/2?
The 3 power sliders for engines, shields and weapons.. Couldnt somthing similar be introduced here?
This whole heat thing, sounds like a load of *******s to me :L
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Rigsta
Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.06.01 12:08:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Rigsta on 01/06/2007 12:07:55 Get on sisi and test it before making comments like that. But in your defense, that sig is great
Loving heat in it's current incarnation. The "Overload rack" option is great, but either it does not work when disabling overload for that module row, or I was lagged :x I'll test this more thoroughly when I get the chance. Overloading MWDs on a speed-fitted inty is very fun. I can get 2-3 cycles before something breaks, which is plenty when you're going at 11.5km/s
And speaking of overloading MWDs, I just figured out how to escape the blast radius of my thermic bombs without warping... They still need speed love though
Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Sanctus Maleficus
Oberon Incorporated Oberon Imperial Governance
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Posted - 2007.06.01 16:59:00 -
[80]
I know this isn't really constructive, but does anyone else find themselves yelling "REROUTE AUXILLIARY POWER TO [module]" when they Overload something? ;)
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SumDum
AirHawk Alliance Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.06.02 00:24:00 -
[81]
So far, I have only tested it on my armor repper, and it seems to operate about as expected. It basically turned a named repper into a nice t2 repper for a short time. I ran it for several cycles and only took about 10% damage to the mod. I just needed it to hold my tank together for another minute, and it did exactly as hoped.
So far, the only things about it I would like to see improved:
- A bigger button for Overload, it's very hard to turn on and off with the mouse many times I end up turning off the module by accident.
- Adding a button or option to overload a whole slot by section, high, mid or low.
I will do more testing this weekend, currently I have to say it's a very nice addition if used properly.
AHE wants YOU! |
VIctoria Ballentyne
Minmatar Pale Riders Incorporated Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.06.02 14:09:00 -
[82]
Edited by: VIctoria Ballentyne on 02/06/2007 14:08:44 Just dragged a best named abaddon out to test the heat again with 6x tachyons & Multi's.
Managed to wipe out 3/4 hull and all structure on a Fenrir and my lasers only went to 30% damage. The option to overdrive all the rack is very useful, however I did notice that the tractorbeam and salvage mod I had on there from before were also damaged even though they were not used O.o
Going to retry it later to see if it warrents a bug report.
My tests on T2 medium pulse lasers were also favorable with minimal damage done.
TBH It would be nice to see Amarr ships and equipment take less heat and damage since they should be used to it. Heat sinks etc etc.
I dont' see myself using heat during missions, but definately during 0.0 and low sec encounters.
"Forbid a man to think for himself or to act for himself and you may add the joy of piracy and the zest of smuggling to his life"
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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:04:00 -
[83]
Ok, it's rather usable now.
Still a bit damage heavy, I'd still rather be able to use it twice as long with half the chance for damage and half the bonus, but ok, this will work.
My only question now is are we certain on the prerequisite? I've been burned twice now, once on tractors and once on salvage. Are you going to punish early adopters again?
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:03:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Alexi Borizkova Ok, it's rather usable now.
Still a bit damage heavy, I'd still rather be able to use it twice as long with half the chance for damage and half the bonus, but ok, this will work.
My only question now is are we certain on the prerequisite? I've been burned twice now, once on tractors and once on salvage. Are you going to punish early adopters again?
good point but I guess even they won't know
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RedWater
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Posted - 2007.06.03 14:54:00 -
[85]
Was listing to the last live dev log about heat and had an idea. ItÆs one of those things that have made me unhappy for a long time! From day 1 miners could not use their lasers to do any damage to another ship. I have always thought that anything that can cut a rod up should be able to some ôANYô damage to an opponent ship. I think overloading the mining lasers would be a good way to put this in game.
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Erim Solfara
Amarr Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.06.03 22:55:00 -
[86]
The Heat dials now make up a semi circle around the capacitor display, wrapped around the top half.
There is now blank space on the bottom half of the ring, can this space be used to bring back the powergrid and cpu percentage needles? I know these were not used much, and replaced because the heat thing needs space and is more important than the pg/cpu status, but there is blank space, and I DID use the little displays.
Please, utilize this space and bring back the needles half the size they used to be.
New ship class |
Mysterlee
Gallente 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.04 18:02:00 -
[87]
I think the skill requirements for thermodynamics are currently a bit high. Energy managent 5 takes around 2 weeks to train. This really needs to be changed to lvl 4 before release.
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Malaan Tabfassh
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Posted - 2007.06.06 06:45:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Malaan Tabfassh on 06/06/2007 06:44:43 Heat ... just remove it. :)
After testing, I think it is pretty useless as it is now:
- You have a lot more micromanagment (Beside that the UI just looks deformed now).
- Modules are damaged way to fast. As people stated before, sometimes only 2-3 cycles. And remember: the skill for it, is at lvl5 already on the testserver.
-I don't think there is any benefit. It is intended as a last choice in combat. But when I make use of it I have to be sure, that it can finish my enemy within the next three module-cycles, when I want to be prevent the fact that I'm a sitting duck afterwards. Bad thing is my enemy can also just overheat, and basically everything stays the same. T3-modules will work better with it? Sounds like for T3 this isn't the last choice, it is common.
-After all, I can't see any benefits in PvE for it. Would be nice to get rid of the heat-UI, when not doing PvP. |
Nnam Pir
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.06 12:15:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Nnam Pir on 06/06/2007 12:33:51 Heat As It Can Relate To Mining I have not taken the time to read this entire thread, so forgive me if I am suggesting anything that has previously been mentioned.
Theory: I would like to talk about Heat and Mining. Mining is a dangerous profession here on Earth, and equipment can easily be damaged or destroyed. This should be no different in EVE. Rough Spots could help bring this about. You should expect that your lasers may be required to overload and be put to risk in order to get your millions of ISK for this single cargohold full of ore.
I don't believe that the composition of an asteroid to be uniform throughout the whole asteroid. For example some parts of the asteroid may have more of some material that would make that location of the asteroid a little denser or harder to break through than another location on the same asteroid. Such locations in an asteroid will hereafter be referred to in this post as a 'rough spot'. Perhaps you run the risk while mining to run into such a rough spot on the asteroid where you'll require more power being emitted through your laser in order to continue mining that asteroid.
As a reward for deciding to go through with it and risk your mining laser, perhaps you'll have the opportunity to receive from it an amount of super-dense ore of the same type you are mining. I don't mean you'll get some Dense Veldspar from a Veldspar asteroid. I mean super-dense ore. Something really rare. After all, overloading isn't meant to be something used often even in combat, only in those rare pinches. It can be the same in mining but instead of being a way to save your ass, it can be a rare opportunity to maybe get something extra out of it. Perhaps the downside could be that instead of receiving this nice amount of rare ore, you may istead have the nasty surprise of setting off a reaction in the asteroid resulting in damage to your vessel. Two sides of the coin, you hit a rough spot and decide if you want to flip that coin. Overloading may not save your ass every time in combat, and it may not always be the best idea while mining.
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Nnam Pir
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.06 12:26:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Nnam Pir on 06/06/2007 12:36:14 There could be two possiblilities in how to use the mining laser to overcome this rough spot.
Automatic: Our mining lasers, being as advanced as they are, might automatically compensate for this increased need for power by increasing their output, overloading the mining laser turret slightly. Perhaps not as a passive steady overload but as quick bursts of substantially increased power, in order to attempt to break through the rough spot. This would increase the heat of the mining laser, very similar to overloading a Railgun Turret might increase that module's heat. Perhaps there could be a way to toggle auto-overload on mining lasers, for those who want to throw caution to the wind in the hopes of ever-higher profits.
Manual: This could instead require manual intervention. The Mining Cycle will end with the ore mined before encountering the rough spot being dropped into your cargohold, and some alert letting you know a rough spot was encountered. You can then activate the overload on the mining laser(s) which encountered the rough spot in order to break through it. Of course some rough spots can be worse than others, so one mining laser overloading may, once in a blue moon, not be enough to break through and using an additional overloaded mining laser or two may be required to get through.
Conclusion: Somehow implementing Heat with Mining could serve two purposes. First, miners won't feel left out of another new game mechanic that is currently seeming like just another combat-only feature. Secondly, if the Manual implementation is used, it can serve to break up some of the monotony of sitting in the pilot seat of a Mining ship staring at slowly spinning space rocks for extended periods of time.
Of course I don't expect it to be so simple as the most common ores all have more uniformly distributed material densities in their asteroids as opposed to the rarer ores' asteroids, making rough spots more common as the ore gets closer to the Rare side of the spectrum. I would not oppose to it being implemented as such, however, if it made implementation simpler.
Problems with my suggestion which I am aware of: ò Not all lasers are equally powerful. Different lasers can acquire different amounts of ore per cycle, so obviously smaller mining lasers will simply be unable to break some rough spots which may require larger mining lasers in order to break the rough spot. ò This will most likely require a change to asteroids in addition to just adding overloading ability to mining lasers. Especially if the change for denser ore is included.
Of course I need to put more thought into this, but right now this is a rough outline of what I was thinking about regarding Heat and Mining. Everything I've mentioned is certainly open to discussion and change and is not set in stone. Thank you for your time.
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