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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)

Tanis.	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:31:00 - [1] Here you can discuss the upcomming feature: Tutorial updates! You can find information about this and other new things here. Please keep posts constructive and on topic. ____________________________ I break things. GM Voodoo > That plan really straddles the fine line between genius and idiocy. Tanis. > And that differs from everything else I say how? [Bug Report Here][How to write a good bug report][Test server rules]


CCP Fear	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:20:00 - [2] Going into the basic of the changes they have been done from scratch. The changes are mostly that you now have only basic and necessary information in the start tutorial. You are shown the interface, basic combat, mining and mission running. More advanced information about various subjects, such as market, fitting, reprocessing which previously was in the start tutorial, now is marked as Informative in the tutorial window. These can be accessed at any time. More tutorials will be added in the future, were we will cover even more advanced features of EVE. The reasoning for this was to shorten it, giving new players a more quicker route into eve and action from the get go. Thus you will not spend multiple hours in the tutorial, but maybe around an hour with the agent tutorial.

Cyan Nuevo The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:50:00 - [3] Not a fan of the new changes. A "more quicker route into eve" will only end up with more helpless newbs asking really dumb questions.
LLucan Dleaur The Praxis Initiative FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 15:25:00 - [4] Eh, yeah. Why is there a perceived need to get new players "into the action sooner?" Much of this game is about long-term strategy. The careful and comprehensive tutorial fits into that much better than throwing noobs to the wolves right off the bat. Shortening the tutorial isn't going to serve them better, and they need to get used to the depth of options and patient planning involved with this game. It is what attracted me in the first place and probably most everyone here.
Bruno Bonner Gallente Lutin Group	Posted - 2007.05.27 01:35:00 - [5] Edited by: Bruno Bonner on 27/05/2007 01:36:01 Originally by: CCP Fear The changes are mostly that you now have only basic and necessary information in the start tutorial. You are shown the interface, basic combat, mining and mission running. Good call, i was a director in E-UNI and many of our most young students often joined without completing the entire tutorial walk-through. I once created a char from scratch just to test it, and it was too long. It is a step in the right direction to shorten it so the player can experience the social part sooner. Originally by: CCP Fear More advanced information about various subjects, such as market, fitting, reprocessing which previously was in the start tutorial, now is marked as Informative in the tutorial window. These can be accessed at any time. More tutorials will be added in the future, were we will cover even more advanced features of EVE. Excellent, will try to test it tomorrow to give some feedback. Edit: forgot to mention, as part of the tutorial you should add a basic racial philosophy explanation. Many of the new pilots in e-uni were a bit lost on how the mechanics of ships and their guns + bonuses work. What was the best way to take advantage of the racial traits and all that. Minmatar = speed + projectiles Caldari = shield + missiles Amarr = armor + lasers gallente = drones + blasters and that sort of thing. regards Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ

CCP Fear	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:56:00 - [6] The reason for shortening the tutorial is not only to "get them into action sooner" granted that alone would not be the best solution to anything, and of course we do not want to alienate any new players. The time spent in the tutorial in the current state was somewhere around 6 hours. Statistics that we have accumulated over the past year or so shows that most people that started the tutorial quit it due to it's immense lenght and amount of detailed information. Thus new players were still not learning as they are supposed to. Thus We removed all the detailed information, and put them in seperate tutorials for all to see. The point of this is not to remove information from new players, but rather show them that they can get all the information, if they so desire. Thus if you understand it quite easily, you are good to go. But if something like the market or anything is baffling you, then you can get detailed information if you so desire. I'm not much fond of forcing anyone through long sets of information. As 6 hours of detailed EVE info, is quite hard to grasp in that amount of time. Most of the knowledge players get is through weeks and months of learning. But the basic training can be gotten through the tutorial.


CCP Fear	Posted - 2007.05.28 17:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Bruno Bonner Edit: forgot to mention, as part of the tutorial you should add a basic racial philosophy explanation. Many of the new pilots in e-uni were a bit lost on how the mechanics of ships and their guns + bonuses work. What was the best way to take advantage of the racial traits and all that. Minmatar = speed + projectiles Caldari = shield + missiles Amarr = armor + lasers gallente = drones + blasters and that sort of thing. regards Bruno I do like this, however as this is very detailed and advanced information and hard for new players to grasp, it might come in at a later time as a more advanced tutorial. But definetly worth looking into.

Bruno Bonner Gallente Lutin Group	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:31:00 - [8] Sent a bug report with my first test of the new tutorial, plus some suggestions. Mr Fear, in regards to the ship specialization, i would use the same template the tutorial "career specialization" shows ingame. It is not part of the mandatory tutorial, just listed among the optional ones. The term would be "Ship technology and design", with 2 pages covering the basic concepts in a very short description. Damage - Missiles, Drones and Guns not the whole tracking/signature mumbo jumbo, just their nature. Missile fly, guns hit instantly and drones are robotic assistants. Protection - Tanking, two layers shield and armor, the one most important module in each (shield booster and armor repairer). The third page of this tutorial explains that every race in eve developed different combat phylosophies and ship designs based on their background, so when training skills one should keep this in cosideration. the following 4 pages explain each race in the following way: Caldari: Hybrids + Missiles + Shield Amarr: Lasers + Drones? + Armor Gallente: Hybrids + Drones + Armor Minmatar: Projectiles + Missiles + Shield/Armor A final page describing there is no restriction to fly ships, as long as one trains all the skills required to use them properly. In total about 8-9 pages of tutorial at most, and give a really good coverage of the basics of fitting ships the proper way. Subtly it also suggest specialization in a chosen race, giving new players a better performance on the short term with their ships. regards Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:06:00 - [9] ^That sounds very good, though I'd gesture that protection should also mention shield & armour hardeners and resistances. At the end it should say something like "There are other modules that have a varying array of defensive properties, though these are beyond the scope of this tutorial"
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:47:00 - [10] as of now players don't even know that lasers use cap and autocannons use none untill a week after they have been playing. you need to really push players to use the optional tutorials. I personally think it would be less boring and more exsiting to watch a video for these new tutorials. after the basic's one. the tutorial for the eve CCG for intance. is great! it's fun to watch. I would love a video released by EvE that talks about the weaknesses and str of different races and then ship types and so forth get white wolf on it! :P

CCP Fear	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:51:00 - [11] Thanks Bruno, very nice indeed and i'm sure i'll get a tutorial done pretty soon. Teaching new players will always be a bit tricky. We can always try to have as much information available, and that is always being worked on. I've also tried to hammer it in throughout the tutorial that you can get additional information about certain features through the tutorial window. When are you also new to the game, certain events will trigger tutorials, such as when you buy your first ship, you will get the insurance tutorial etc. There are also various ways to expand this, but with the limited amount of time for Kali 2, we have to live with just these basic changes, but I'm sure they will be easier for newer players. Also, adding new tutorials can be done quite easily so with new information, features and so forth, they can start popping up very frequently. But of course, the most need would be from you the players, on what exactly you think is missing from the tutorials. Such as the resistances and damage types etc. There is also a new player guide being written, which will be released on the website, hopefully alongside Kali 2 (but i do not have a confirmation on that). That will hold even more detailed information than the tutorials, and can be more easily added to. As for video tutorials, I believe that Zond is working on some videos, but again, I have no status on that but I'll get some confirmation on let you guys know.

Bruno Bonner Gallente Lutin Group	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:23:00 - [12] Oh triggers are an excellente addition, may i request a small list of the most common triggers currently enabled so i can test them? ------ aka BinderAJ
SnowDude	Posted - 2007.06.05 02:51:00 - [13] Edited by: SnowDude on 05/06/2007 02:49:48 As someone who has recently started playing EVE, making the initial tutorial shorter sounds like a good idea. I'm currently preparing a list of suggestions and observations on EVE, but I thought I'd add here that I think 'mouse over tool tips' should be integrated into the game and in my opinion could be a very successful way of limiting the tutorial length. Looking at the 'Show Info' stats of a given item for the first time can be very daunting. For example, what is drawback and what is it's effect? A simple tooltip can quickly answer such questions.
Kylegar Caldari The Dark Horses Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 05:22:00 - [14] I like the idea of triggers, so that when you click a button, you get information on what it does. --- amazing sig, no?
Luminary Xion	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:05:00 - [15] I am brand new to the game, I've been struggling with my system performance but I finally got it so that I can play without crashing... Anyways! As a total newb; I adore the depth of the tutorial. A good tutorial can make or break a new game experience. I came from the City of (Heroes/Villains) MMO and the contrast of information provided to new players is a big bonus to EVE as I see it.
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.05 23:12:00 - [16] Originally by: SnowDude Looking at the 'Show Info' stats of a given item for the first time can be very daunting. For example, what is drawback and what is it's effect? A simple tooltip can quickly answer such questions. I like this, It would be nice to have an "extended description" in the "show info" of modules that gives some more insight into how they work...
Bruno Bonner Gallente Lutin Group	Posted - 2007.06.07 15:01:00 - [17] Any bug-fixes or additions lately? i would like to know if we should test it again. I cannot stress this more seriously, a good tutorial means more players will get into the game better prepared, a good tutorial does not need to be large, nor complex, but it needs to be bug-free. Let me know how can i help more in this area. Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ

CCP Fear	Posted - 2007.06.08 11:34:00 - [18] Most severe bugs have been fixed regarding the tutorial. But most is visual, pictures in wrong places and some audio files not being in the right location. But the functionality should be the same. I believe singularity will be updated later today with all recent updates so you should be able to check it out later today.

Stellar Vix State War Academy	Posted - 2007.06.08 20:30:00 - [19] Can we get our first agent to point to the second newbie agent that has the mission for the certificates? Im not sure if you control that but when I rolled this character the certificates where used to extend the newbie missions so to say and get aquainted with long distance travelling, some fiquring out how a realer complex might work and of course the first free 4 implants players can get in the game while all getting used to the ship given to them in the first series of missions. I would also like to see the emphasis on suggesting players to use the extra additional tutorials at the end of the shorter version, my throat is getting little dry on telling new players in swa to do that as is. Also triggers are very nice. Might get annoying for alt pilots mabey you should have a limit to when the trigger happens for the side bar, like in station only dont need these to pop up during an npc mission getting the pilot killed. ========= SWA Qualified Instructor and Mascot or sorts Ensign Stellar Vix
Bruno Bonner Gallente Lutin Group	Posted - 2007.06.13 15:20:00 - [20] Excellent job on the optional tutorials concerning COMBAT. I Went through all of them last night and they were very satisfactory. No bugs whatsoever in them. I do insist though that after creating a new char and entering for the first (albeit having a main in the same account) the Tutorial only trigered when i undocked. This is not good for people who are just starting the game, they need to be greeted by Aura and told what they are seeing in screen at least. Overall, good work on the tutorials. Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ
Hammer Judge Gallente Southern Cross Incorporated Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.14 00:34:00 - [21] Edited by: Hammer Judge on 14/06/2007 00:34:12 I wrote a guide for newbies who are experienced gamers. Its content is based on the things which I was unclear on, because the tutorial and the player guide either didn't cover them or explained it poorly. For example: the concept of skills being learned, and not needing to grind for experience points like in Warcraft, and other unique factors in Eve, and the ship-size progression. If anyone cares to, perhaps skim my guide and you will see a list of content which the tutorial and new player guide could be tested against. - My newbie guide for experienced MMO gamers.
IHurricane Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.06.19 12:13:00 - [22] Yeah, explaing the racial difference is a good thing. I rember when I started to fly and the first hours of playing I woul bail once I hit Armor. And I flew Amarr ships ^^ --------------------------------------------- There was never a genius, without a tincture of madness - Aristotle
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.21 01:57:00 - [23] To all the newbies that are reading this... DON'T go Caldari!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Unless you want to run missions until you quit!) ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
Ghostwarden	Posted - 2007.06.21 23:33:00 - [24] The new tutorials are pretty good....still think that they could be a little longer but I can see your point about it detering some potential players. All that said I would definately like to see some advanced Tutorials that go over Fleets, Corporations (espically the UI), and Exploration. Ive been playing for about 6 months now and I'm getting to a point where I'd like to do more that just mining and mission running but getting info on some of these things is like pulling the teeth of a tiger! Ghost

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