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Gungankllr Caldari STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:00:00 - [1] I have been playing this game (with more than one character) since release, and it's become part of my life. As I get older, I find I have less time to play than I used to, but I find time to write, make signatures, or read forums to keep connected to the game. I think that anyone that plays this game for a period of time gets attached to it, just because of its utter open-endedness. Today I can be a pirate, tomorrow a builder, the next a scientist, or a Fleet Commander. I can pick from over 5000 different star systems to voyage to, or I can spend my life in the same system. I can help new people, or choose to smartbomb the station in Kisogo. Eve is all about choices. The choices you have, and the choices you decide to make. Everyone that works for CCP in some capacity should take a moment and reflect on choices. Which are good for the community, and which choices are not. It's very hard not to get attached to people when you play with them for days if not years. For instance, even though we are sort of on other sides of the fence right now, I know if I was to convo Blacklight to get advice about a personal problem, he would help me. And I would do the same for him. When you make friends, it's human nature to want to try and help them when you can, even when sometimes it may not be the exact right thing to do. While CCP is responsible to be unbiased, and to provide the best product they can to everyone equally, human nature can and will cause people with real emotions and loyalties to make bad decisions. It's the price we pay for having developers and staff that spend just as much time as we do playing this living, breathing thing we call Eve. Do I think it is right? No, I don't, but I understand how and why it happens. So what is left? The only thing that we can and should do if we care about this game is to let the publisher know how we feel about the current state of the game and what direction it would be best for ALL for it to go. The Development staff has stated many times that they will continue to play Eve as players, which I can understand. The drawback to this argument is that there is the possibility that favoritism can occur, real or percieved. I would now humbly ask Crowd Control Productions and their staff, to ask themselves the following: At the end of the day, what is more important to you: Making your paying customers happy or making your friends happy, even if they might never know how you helped them. If you believe in the company you work for, and carry with you a strong sense of fair play and ethics, then the answer should be obvious. If the answer is not certain for you, then you may need to reevaluate if this job is for you. My next request is to my fellow players. Please have some patience with what is happening. Organizing "sit-ins" in Jita, or spamming the forums, or any of the other acts of self-sabotage only make things worse. In trying to "wake CCP up" you only hurt your fellow gamers, I think that you and I have to believe that as a company, CCP wouldn't do something that would cost them subscribers. When they begin to see their subscription numbers dropping, things will resolve themselves all on their own. I would hope that it would not come to that, as it is my sincere hope that CCP has had enough of dealing with these employee/subscriber scandals and would rather be spending their time on developing their game, not dealing with "dramabombs". I would hope that this thread is not locked, as it does not cite a specific issue, it only outlines a current trend of problems that I see arising within the playerbase. Signed, GK
Herculite Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:07:00 - [2] The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless.
Driven Caldari Mass Produced Venturi Starea	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Maybe. Maybe not. But it has a snappy beat, and you can dance to it. I give it a 8.5 Part of the evil Tech 2 BPO cartel
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:09:00 - [4] Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Excuse me? Have you seen the chat logs an letter? How many more times does ** like this have to happen? Originally by:** Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
xXAeonFluxXx Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. of course a BOB member would say something like this roflmao
Morgain dVher Minmatar The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:13:00 - [6] Looks like BoD, oh, excuse me, BoB is in full propaganda mode. Quite sad. BoD, oh, excuse me, BoB, may have won Eve - by destroying it. I hope not. Of course: we do not, and never have tolarated to even a slight degree, any cheating within EVE. We are much too fully aware of the possible consequences of allowing any cheating to go on among the GM's.
Cabadrin Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:14:00 - [7] Quote: I think that you and I have to believe that as a company, CCP wouldn't do something that would cost them subscribers. Smartest quote of the day, TBH. _______________________________________________
Herculite Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Excuse me? Have you seen the chat logs an letter? How many more times does **** like this have to happen? Yes and I was also there when the ISD guy was interfering with a fleet battle, unlike you. You are taking the goons at their word and a guy who got kicked out of ISD for at best poor judgment. Goons are losing their little war and now are out to harm CCP as far as I can tell. Nice side you are on.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Cabadrin Quote: I think that you and I have to believe that as a company, CCP wouldn't do something that would cost them subscribers. Smartest quote of the day, TBH. CCP as a company no. Staff however are an entirly different matter. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:21:00 - [10] Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 26/05/2007 02:20:38 Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 26/05/2007 02:20:25 Originally by: Herculite Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Excuse me? Have you seen the chat logs an letter? How many more times does **** like this have to happen? Yes and I was also there when the ISD guy was interfering with a fleet battle, unlike you. You are taking the goons at their word and a guy who got kicked out of ISD for at best poor judgment. Goons are losing their little war and now are out to harm CCP as far as I can tell. Nice side you are on. That's nice, but seeing as i didn't get this from a Goon, your argument doesn't hold any water. Several BoB members in local threatening to MSN their buddies and quite frankly showing no respect and the guy getting banned in a matter of hours(minutes?) speaks volumes. If this was the first time, i wouldn't be as **ed off. It sure as hell isn't though. Originally by:** Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Glengrant Minmatar TOHA Heavy Industries FROST Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:22:00 - [11] At least this was a calm and sensible post. Yes, there are too many assumptionds all over the place (BTW, chatlogs can easily be faked or distorted). Also I didn't find anything really damning in the quotes to begin with. Anyway - asking for calm cosideration as the op does is not meaningless. BTW - I want the devs to play the game (fairly of course :-) ). Given the choice between a team of highly motivated devs who love the game and having first hand knowledge of what it is like - but occaionaly screw things up a bit on the the one hand - and a team of disinterested devs who don't know how their product really works on the other - I prefer the former.
Morgain dVher Minmatar The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:23:00 - [12] Here's some more rope, Herculite. we do not, and never have tolarated to even a slight degree, any cheating within EVE. We are much too fully aware of the possible consequences of allowing any cheating to go on among the GM's.
Gungankllr Caldari STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Cabadrin Quote: I think that you and I have to believe that as a company, CCP wouldn't do something that would cost them subscribers. Smartest quote of the day, TBH. CCP as a company no. Staff however are an entirly different matter. I agree, that is where personal responsibility and a sense of professional ethics/pride in your employment should factor in.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Herculite Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Excuse me? Have you seen the chat logs an letter? How many more times does **** like this have to happen? Yes and I was also there when the ISD guy was interfering with a fleet battle, unlike you. You are taking the goons at their word and a guy who got kicked out of ISD for at best poor judgment. Goons are losing their little war and now are out to harm CCP as far as I can tell. Nice side you are on. I am not really interested in pointing fingers to BoB or anyone in general, but as that specific guy says (and mind you he is not nobody and has some history in this game too) this behavior is not only a trace of your alliance only. Every major 0.0 alliance is using this behavior towards ISD reporters. Which is a problem you should really look into imho. I bet you wouldn't like to be threatened like that and i don't think that anyone would appreciate this kind of behavior pointed to him. Also the main problem here is what was said in local according to the logs, and the obvious inappropriate use of friendly acquaintances you or anyone in BoB may have within the CCP. Even just for intimidation. It's a thing that does make many people feel awkward like it not. Especially since it implies that you are involving these certain friends in situations that they can act with more powers than a simple player. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Indomitus Rex Amarr H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Herculite Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Excuse me? Have you seen the chat logs an letter? How many more times does **** like this have to happen? Yes and I was also there when the ISD guy was interfering with a fleet battle, unlike you. You are taking the goons at their word and a guy who got kicked out of ISD for at best poor judgment. Goons are losing their little war and now are out to harm CCP as far as I can tell. Nice side you are on. So you don't think having devs/GMs on MSN at your beck and call is just maybe SLIGHTLY unfair? Hey, my name is OrangeSpecies, if someone ****es me off I snap my fingers and a CCP employee is screaming at someone/banning their accounts. Everyone else has to wait a month before their petitions go through. Me? Hell nah, I got MSN and Oveur's cell # saved in my address book! You Bobbits are so self-deluded to your own cheating now it's gone past funny, gone past absurd, and now is just downright sad. By the way, STILL waiting on all these devs in other alliances besides BOB like CCP and Band of Dirty Cheats have been propagandizing for YEARS now.... How many times does BOB/CCP get to cry wolf and still have us believe them? Deutschland. And ya just don't get it. . .keep it copacetic. . .and ya learn to accept it. . .and oh you're so pathetic....
Crocky	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:56:00 - [16] snip unconstructive - Karass Sayfo

Karass Sayfo Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.26 02:58:00 - [17] Much like the previous forum crisis, I am willing to leave calm and rational posts left open for debate, however I will warn that any posts which are clearly synical, sarcastic and generally trollish or unconstructive will be moderated - just please remain constructive and civil when debating. For further posting and continuation of the debate regarding the recent allegations, please continue your posting here Sincerely, Karass Sayfo _______ Forum Rules \| Report a Post \| Our Website \| IGS Rules

Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:00:00 - [18] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/05/2007 03:01:06 Originally by: Indomitus Rex Originally by: Herculite Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Excuse me? Have you seen the chat logs an letter? How many more times does **** like this have to happen? Yes and I was also there when the ISD guy was interfering with a fleet battle, unlike you. You are taking the goons at their word and a guy who got kicked out of ISD for at best poor judgment. Goons are losing their little war and now are out to harm CCP as far as I can tell. Nice side you are on. So you don't think having devs/GMs on MSN at your beck and call is just maybe SLIGHTLY unfair? Hey, my name is OrangeSpecies, if someone ****es me off I snap my fingers and a CCP employee is screaming at someone/banning their accounts. Everyone else has to wait a month before their petitions go through. Me? Hell nah, I got MSN and Oveur's cell # saved in my address book! You Bobbits are so self-deluded to your own cheating now it's gone past funny, gone past absurd, and now is just downright sad. ...says a member of the only alliance in the game to have an official guide to cheating on their own Wiki. More seriously, every alliance has skeletons in their closet. Just because Goonswarm insists on exposing all of BoB's doesn't mean that no other alliance has such skeletons. The reason that every single scandal involves BoB is because the only people exposing such scandals are enemies of BoB. They almost certainly have GM and dev cheating on their side as well, but why would they report it? --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Captain Stephanie	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:03:00 - [19] Hey GK, You post was well thought out and represents common sence. However your assuming that something wrong was/is happening. I read the goon boards and I have read this forum. I know the story and I know that this is a deliberate attempt by the goonswarm to discredit CCP. Read goon forums and you will see that mitriani has told them that if they can't beat boB then they will try and beat ccp. I guess this is how they are intending to try. Don't buy into any story just cause you read it. Keep up the good work, and keep smiling.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Captain Stephanie Hey GK, You post was well thought out and represents common sence. However your assuming that something wrong was/is happening. I read the goon boards and I have read this forum. I know the story and I know that this is a deliberate attempt by the goonswarm to discredit CCP. Read goon forums and you will see that mitriani has told them that if they can't beat boB then they will try and beat ccp. I guess this is how they are intending to try. Don't buy into any story just cause you read it. Keep up the good work, and keep smiling. I've been hearing a lot about this--any chance we could get some forum screenshots as proof? --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Captain Stephanie	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:08:00 - [21] Edited by: Captain Stephanie on 26/05/2007 03:07:49 I cannot post screenies here. Violtes EULA of forums. But where there is smoke there is fire. btw yes I am an alt. Steph
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:24:00 - [22] Well written OP. Even handed and good points. To the rest of the Chicken Little's out here give it a rest. You are taking an accusation from a single source with an axe to grind and running with it as if it is gospel. It may be completely true or completely false or somewhere in the middle but the fact remains that YOU do not know. Certainly CCP needs to look into this and hopefully be communicative about their efforts. Sadly the world works on people's perceptions of reality and not reality itself so the community needs to see that their issues are being addressed. I have complete faith that CCP as a company will investigate misconduct and take appropriate actions should it be found. If you doubt their ethics (which personally I think are intact) then do not doubt their own self interest. Any group can get a bad apple but collectively the bunch is still overall good. Just give them time to do their thing. Imagine you were the target of an accusation. Would you want a knee jerk reaction from your employers or a thoughtful and thorough reading of the facts? If you were guilty you are screwed either way but if you are innocent I am betting you'd opt for the latter.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:37:00 - [23] There has been no misconduct first of all. Luckily enough i managed to see the whole deal from the beginning and read the infamous open letter. It speaks NOT of any misconduct by a DEV but only what the people of Goonfleet perceive and suspect as a spying act (which most probably is not also, unless Sharkbait had a sudden nerf to his intelligence which dropped IQ to -20. I seriously can't believe that). Not to mention that the whole deal of Sharkbait entering the corp may be excused by the fact that one of the CEOs of the corp said that at time they had some BPOs that refused to lock down. And that sprung some memories of a thread in General discussion of someone asking about this or a similar matter, and Sharkbait answering in here that he will pop in the corp to see what is going on. Followed by an answer from the same guy saying thanks and all that. But i don't remember the corp name and can't be bothered to look around now (it has been quite some time too). As allegation of all the rp events being rigged, i find it quite comical that someone is saying that the existence of a scenario for a specific RP event Tetrimon arc (which has an ending CCP wants to follow to go along with the greater storyline they have in mind) is the proof of rigging all events. For the other one i am waiting to see what CCP has to say ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:42:00 - [24] Edited by: WhitePhantom on 26/05/2007 03:43:38 Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 26/05/2007 02:20:38 Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 26/05/2007 02:20:25 Originally by: Herculite Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Excuse me? Have you seen the chat logs an letter? How many more times does **** like this have to happen? Yes and I was also there when the ISD guy was interfering with a fleet battle, unlike you. You are taking the goons at their word and a guy who got kicked out of ISD for at best poor judgment. Goons are losing their little war and now are out to harm CCP as far as I can tell. Nice side you are on. That's nice, but seeing as i didn't get this from a Goon, your argument doesn't hold any water. Several BoB members in local threatening to MSN their buddies and quite frankly showing no respect and the guy getting banned in a matter of hours(minutes?) speaks volumes. If this was the first time, i wouldn't be as ****ed off. It sure as hell isn't though. So they threaten to tell on you, and you believe them? BoB could just be saying what ever doesn't want to hear, because they are having a good old time laughing at people who believe them. Let alone the open letter thats not even proven to be from somebody on the ISD. Unless I have a letter written and signed, I don't believe anything. Mithrantir Ob'lontra your the first people to make any sense of the events tonight.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Herculite The problem with your post is the assumption of misconduct. Without this assumption your post is meaningless. Excuse me? Have you seen the chat logs an letter? How many more times does **** like this have to happen? oh ya cause those cant be faked ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:47:00 - [26] Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 26/05/2007 03:46:37 Originally by: Dark Shikari The reason that every single scandal involves BoB is because the only people exposing such scandals are enemies of BoB. They almost certainly have GM and dev cheating on their side as well, but why would they report it? That quote makes me want to quit the game. I don't have a developer in my pocket, and I surely am not paying for a game where other people have access to things I can never have access to no matter how long I play or how much I love the game. Really, this makes me question my dedication to this game, and it makes me very sad to say that.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Captain Stephanie I cannot post screenies here. Violtes EULA of forums. But where there is smoke there is fire. btw yes I am an alt. Steph EVEmail me. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:50:00 - [28] Gungankiller, Nice post and well thought out and I agree with you. I think it is naive to assume anything. Naive to assume that someone doesn't have an agenda in slandering CCP and naive to assume that CCP did no wrong. So where does that leave us? Do not assume anything. Don't automatically believe 100% in something someone posts. Don't jump to conclusions. Don't believe the sky is falling. Try to investigate both side of an issue objectively and sincerely and draw your own conclusions AFTER you know all the facts. CCP made Eve because they had an idea about what an awesome game would be. They are gamers just like the rest of us. Asking them not to enjoy their creation ignores reality and would prevent them from making Eve a better game which they want to do. Time will tell if they will be successful.
Captain Stephanie	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:52:00 - [29] Edited by: Captain Stephanie on 26/05/2007 03:52:14 Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra There has been no misconduct first of all. Luckily enough i managed to see the whole deal from the beginning and read the infamous open letter. It speaks NOT of any misconduct by a DEV but only what the people of Goonfleet perceive and suspect as a spying act (which most probably is not also, unless Sharkbait had a sudden nerf to his intelligence which dropped IQ to -20. I seriously can't believe that). Not to mention that the whole deal of Sharkbait entering the corp may be excused by the fact that one of the CEOs of the corp said that at time they had some BPOs that refused to lock down. And that sprung some memories of a thread in General discussion of someone asking about this or a similar matter, and Sharkbait answering in here that he will pop in the corp to see what is going on. Followed by an answer from the same guy saying thanks and all that. But i don't remember the corp name and can't be bothered to look around now (it has been quite some time too). As allegation of all the rp events being rigged, i find it quite comical that someone is saying that the existence of a scenario for a specific RP event Tetrimon arc (which has an ending CCP wants to follow to go along with the greater storyline they have in mind) is the proof of rigging all events. For the other one i am waiting to see what CCP has to say While I agree with everything you said here mate, you have missed the boat. This current ccp flamefest is about orangespecies stating that why petition when he can msn someone. When a ISD was screwing about bumping dreads in a pos killing event. I could say that too but it doesn't make it the truth. What this is really about is that the goons are losing the war and are trying desparately to reviatalize the efforts against BoB. They claim that a boB member has a dev in their back pocket but make this accusation a month or more after the incident. All of it is BS. The T20 incident started this war and mitriani is hoping that this will breath some life back into it. This hole thing truely is a dramabomb and when ccp investigates this it will come out as such. The sharkbait thing is about Pyrex needing some attention and an ego boost as he is yet again demonstrating his worthlessness as a CEO and DS-1 is floundering in the depths of Goonswarm hades. Steph
characterguy	Posted - 2007.05.26 03:53:00 - [30] because people actually care what this 'eve celebrity wannabe' has to say? you're giving yourself too much credit buddy.

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