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met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tippia wrote:met worst wrote:In all my time baiting you Ah. So this is is a troll thread. Well, that explains a lot of things. Among them your continual lack of argumentation. At least it clears up one thing: there's not really anything wrong with PI, and that makes the whole thread quite redundant. Oh, and: I think it's kind of cute that I have such a dedicated follower as yourself. You even almost manage to not make it creepy.  GÖÑGÖÑGÖÑ Topic not troll. Posts for Tippia is troll.
You're more fun than smacktalking ratters in lowsec local.
I see tears streaming down your face while you wear the smiley facade.
NB: Paragraphs pre-formatted with extra BR's for your quoting pleasure.
Happy New Year Tipps  |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4208
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
met worst wrote:I see tears streaming down your face while you wear the smiley facade. See, now you're hallucinating again, much like how you're hallucinating about the problems you've created for yourself. Just because you choose not to use the means at your disposal doesn't mean they don't exist. The solution is simple: don't make that choice.
Quote:PI is a legitimate profession. It was a happy medium for highseccers and lowseccers with tax profits ultimately getting sunk out of game. GǪand it still remains one unless you just give up because the circumstances have changed. Their giving up part of an ISK sink is a bit wierd, but without any data, it's entirely conceivable that the sink lost in low/null is made up by the increased sinks in highsec, so who knows.
Quote:Much of those profits and planets now go into the hands of the big alliances putting even less control in the hands of the thousands of small corps/players. GǪand why is that a problem (if it's even true)? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Off-topic, but Tippia's avatar has those creepy bug eyes that seem to bulge out at you...  |

met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Off-topic, but Tippia's avatar has those creepy bug eyes that seem to bulge out at you...  Perfectly acceptable given Tippia's intrusion. Tippia can see things no-one else can. Just a pity it's through vaseline smeared contacts. |

Cipher Jones
287
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Xearal wrote:So.. howcome I'm still making 500M+ a month with my PI, and only need to check my planets every 4 days or so, and haul once a week?
Oh.. and ofcourse, ever consider making a deal with those 'monopolies'? I saw a certain big alliance setting up some POCO's somewhere, and though I had no interest in setting up PI in that system, I chatted with em and asked howmuch tax they would charge me if I set up on 'their' planets.
They were quite willing to cut me a profitable deal that while I'd still be paying them taxes ( and thus giving them free money :) ), I would still be making a good profit on my PI.
Because 500 mil a month is terribad income for ANYTHING.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |

met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 00:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:met worst wrote: Much of those profits and planets now go into the hands of the big alliances putting even less control in the hands of the thousands of small corps/players.
GǪand why is that a problem (if it's even true)? Do you ever move further than your own system? Do you even do lowsec PI? How come you are SOOOO knowledgeable in EVERY facet of the game?
Upon reflection, last I heard you were a highsec S&I player. Possibly conversant with highsec POS's but highly unlikely to know the state-of-affairs beyond your own front door. Perhaps you need to get out more 
My opinions and my views on lowsec PI and associated consequences are not unilateral and were debated even before it was introduced. I have tolerated it, I tried to adapt to it.
I am fine doing either of those things IF there is a reason behind it. And apart from Dust, what is the reasoning?
Which, if you took a look beyond the quote button, was my original intent. I want opinions from people who DO lowsec PI.
Opinions dammit. Opinions. You don't have an opinion - just more BS. Now contribute or buttout ffs. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4209
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 00:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
met worst wrote:Do you ever move further than your own system? Do you even do lowsec PI? How come you are SOOOO knowledgeable in EVERY facet of the game? I don't have any own systems, but yes, I do lowsec PI. The reason I know stuff is because I've tried quite a few things during my time hereGǪ
Quote:Upon reflection, last I heard you were a highsec S&I player. You shouldn't listen to rumours (and you shouldn't try to pigeon-hole people)GǪ
Quote:I am fine doing either of those things IF there is a reason behind it. And part from Dust, what is the reasoning? The reasoning is to put more of the industrial chain into the hands of players GÇö Dust isn't even a part of it since it won't be applicable to the vast majority of PI.
Quote:Now contribute or buttout ffs. Already done.
Oh, and you didn't answer the question, by the wayGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Myz Toyou
Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
27
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 00:26:00 -
[38] - Quote
Obligartory: OP is in n00b corp and plays a game in single mode thats benefits players thats play it with others and wonder (whines) now why he cant compete.
What happened to the good old trolls of the past who kept us atleast entertaint on these forums, nowadays only whiners post here to share their lack of grip.
edit: and only Tippia is still here and tries to explain EVE to them  |

Tore Vest
Vikinghall
126
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 00:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Welcome back to highsec  |

met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 00:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Myz Toyou wrote:Obligartory: OP is in n00b corp and plays a game in single mode thats benefits players thats play it with others and wonder (whines) now why he cant compete. What happened to the good old trolls of the past who kept us atleast entertaint on these forums, nowadays only whiners post here to share their lack of grip. edit: and only Tippia is still here and tries to explain EVE to them  Obligatory. Derp. |

Mentorm
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 01:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
met worst, in answer to your original question about CCP being bothered about your five accounts.
The answer is no.
If you have a problem with EVE feel free to open the air lock and walk out. |

Caliph Muhammed
inderpendent manufacturing operations Amen Anera
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 01:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Off-topic, but Tippia's avatar has those creepy bug eyes that seem to bulge out at you... 
I think that's the Brit look. I have two friends that are British and have female toons that appear the same way. Its actually very realistic. Its a difficult subject to explain. It's like if you go to mexico and look at the natives and design an avatar based on that heritage you are going to have certain stereotypical characterizations.
My avatar is achura and while it starts as japanese I think you'll find very few japanese with blue eyes. Though my eyes in real life are.
Many people who self identify with their avatars give it qualities they see within themselves. Many Brits have very round eyes, greatly contrasted to the asian epicanthic fold. |

met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 01:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mentorm wrote:met worst, in answer to your original question about CCP being bothered about your five accounts.
The answer is no.
If you have a problem with EVE feel free to open the air lock and walk out. Indeed. That thought had crossed my mind. Coming?  |

Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
221
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 02:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
... hot topic.. I come back and it's 3 pages long already.. aaanyway.
Running incurions has nothing to do with PI, and i doubt you can make 500M with incurions in the time it takes me to do my PI. I spend about an hour a week doing PI on a single toon, and I scrape out 500M a month with that. So that's about 4 hours, adding in the finding of a fleet, getting ready, doing sites, and finding replacements for the people that have other things to do, does your incursion running make that much in 4 hours? I don't think so.
The rest of my time a month, I spend doing other things which make money, and thi is on a single toon PI only.
My point was, that just because someone else owns the POCO, doesn't mean you can't make use of 'their' planet. Simply chat with them, and make a deal. Especially in low sec where system control isn't as easy as say, sov space, and people come and go all the time, it's good business practice anyway. If you have the capital to set up a POCO, and the force to make sure someone doesn't go and blow it up, shutting people out of a low sec planet is madness. There are just too many planets around to shut out everyone, they can always just go to another system/planet/region. It makes MUCH more sense for them to allow access and give you a reasonable tax rate. This way, they will have people coming to 'their' planet and doing PI, and all the work those people put in making stuff on the planet gets taxed. Taxes that are paid to said alliance. Aka free money, from each and every person that comes to your planet. Hell, I'll sign for that.
I've run the figures on howmuch it costs to set up a POCO and the RoI and such, and it definitely favors allowing other people to use it in low sec. Especially a nice busy system. Even a moderately sized alliance can make tons of money doing it, with the cost of getting your POCO blown up regularly added in, you'd still be ahead in the game.
|

Rellik B00n
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
112
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 02:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mentat Cthulhu wrote:WAS no NEED or WANT except DUST release APPROACHING and TOO many PEOPLE making TOO much ISK with TOO little RISK
its funny i read this and i thought you were talking about incursions. IF post = alt AND subject is positive for goons THEN assume goon alt post. |

Alain Kinsella
83
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 06:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Xearal wrote:... hot topic.. I come back and it's 3 pages long already.. aaanyway.
Running incurions has nothing to do with PI, and i doubt you can make 500M with incurions in the time it takes me to do my PI. I spend about an hour a week doing PI on a single toon, and I scrape out 500M a month with that. So that's about 4 hours, adding in the finding of a fleet, getting ready, doing sites, and finding replacements for the people that have other things to do, does your incursion running make that much in 4 hours? I don't think so.
The rest of my time a month, I spend doing other things which make money, and this is on a single toon PI only.
My point was, that just because someone else owns the POCO, doesn't mean you can't make use of 'their' planet. Simply chat with them, and make a deal. Especially in low sec where system control isn't as easy as say, sov space, and people come and go all the time, it's good business practice anyway. If you have the capital to set up a POCO, and the force to make sure someone doesn't go and blow it up, shutting people out of a low sec planet is madness. There are just too many planets around to shut out everyone, they can always just go to another system/planet/region. It makes MUCH more sense for them to allow access and give you a reasonable tax rate. This way, they will have people coming to 'their' planet and doing PI, and all the work those people put in making stuff on the planet gets taxed. Taxes that are paid to said alliance. Aka free money, from each and every person that comes to your planet. Hell, I'll sign for that.
I've run the figures on howmuch it costs to set up a POCO and the RoI and such, and it definitely favors allowing other people to use it in low sec. Especially a nice busy system. Even a moderately sized alliance can make tons of money doing it, with the cost of getting your POCO blown up regularly added in, you'd still be ahead in the game.
Excellent post. I've been saying something similar, in that my PI character has been (overall) more profitable since the change - and he still produces in High-Sec exclusively. Most important thing was to hold off on doing anything for a couple weeks, while I waited for the markets to settle out.
I did make some changes: 1) Ditched the production planet, now produce on one of the 'final chain' planets [this rolls back to v1 of PI, amusingly]; 2) Sell every 4th or 5th batch to buy orders to support taxes (the rest is allocated to donations, otherwise I'd sell everything).
As for managing a POCO, the main point is to find a planet or group of planets that are lucrative and 'busy.' That will (usually) mean a 0.3 to 0.1 system, though I've seen some semi-decent 0.4's. I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Halcyon Ingenium
Prometheus Research LLC
117
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 07:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
The funny thing in all of this is that those who were paying attention know that this change was always in the works. The fact that this change was going to happen was known to everyone actually listening to CCP when PI was released. The period of risk free PI was always meant to be finite. This has nothing to do with null and everything to do with "working as intended" and "delivering as promised." Don't be angry with CCP just because you weren't paying attention, don't have a memory, or are a Johnny Come Lately that didn't get the memo. Here's a pro-tip. Next time before you spend some USD, do some damn research. Or, realize you are spending cash on entertainment and that it is gone forever. You got a lot more out of that entertainment dollar then you would have seeing movies in 2011, which were for the most part terrible.
You got the blues? I got the blues too; I got the "I read a terrible forum but have no one but myself to blame because I refuse to stop" blues. That which always was, and is, and will be everlasting fire, the same for all, the cosmos, made neither by god nor man, replenishes in measure as it burns away. -Heraclitus |

Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
477
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 08:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
met worst wrote:This is more an observation and a query regarding PI.
TL;DR : Lowsec is even deader than before due to POCO's. One less reason to bother with it.
The elaboration:-
As a player who has done lowsec PI for a long long time, the motivation to setup ninja POS's and float around lowsec gathering resources was both fun and interesting and on many occasions quite challenging (if not downright scarey). It made a modest profit and was almost a full-time Eve occupation in itself.
It required regular logins and made me invest in RL money to run my 5 accounts. There's simply not enough profit in PI to plex it all. And now, there's even less to be had due to POCO monopolies starting to rear their ugly heads.
So today I unanchored my last tower out of lowsec and closed up all my PI. The massive time, RL money and isk investment training 5 perfect PI chars with blockade runner skills is now wasted. The cost to do PI for personal towers and a small amount of manufacturing is on the verge of pointless.
Of course, the usual banter about go kill POCO's and install your own etc. will be bandied around and sure, I can join some alliance and do just that but that just reinforces my point about monopolisation of the game. I know what the "do this" solution is but I also know the reality - as do most players who do/did PI in lowsec.
IMO, it's a case of yet another nail-in-the-coffin for lowsec players who WANT lowsec, are prepared to RISK it in lowsec but have absolutely no incentive to be there unless they start a whole new alliance and spend 5 years building it into yet another monopoly.
I am seriously at a "wtf do I do now" moment after almost 4 years of trying it all.
Has anyone else struck the same sense of "where the **** is this game going" frustration?
Coward posting with alts
|

pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
257
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 09:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP doesn't like the little people , POCO is only one of many steps to nerf high sec industry to death and forcing the average player who on average dislikes the current nullsec mentallitty into nulsec
But the OP isn't alone I used to be a low sec pi industrialist aswell it was a good income there where some risks and i really appreciate pirates that honour ransoms ( they all did ) but then i took a arrow in the knee .....
Only one of the many reasons i so dislike this whole crucible expansion and so fearfull what will come next
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1495
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 11:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
SilentSkills wrote:you sir, are an idiot, lowsec may be dead, but its far more dangerous than bluefested,cynojammed,intel-ridden 0.0
this is true, all of our systems are cynojammed, every one of them (you're dumb) |

Halcyon Ingenium
Prometheus Research LLC
118
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 11:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
Andski wrote:SilentSkills wrote:you sir, are an idiot, lowsec may be dead, but its far more dangerous than bluefested,cynojammed,intel-ridden 0.0 this is true, all of our systems are cynojammed, every one of them (you're dumb)
Most of your systems are raspberry jammed. That which always was, and is, and will be everlasting fire, the same for all, the cosmos, made neither by god nor man, replenishes in measure as it burns away. -Heraclitus |

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
335
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 13:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:There were lots of people predicting this in the deve blog thread. Made no difference, as with many changes CCP makes. The comments threads most of the time are an exercise in futility. It was very apparent that they wanted this for DUST. Hope they know what they're doing with that. In the meantime yeah, fewer people in lowsec.
If one reads through the dev blogs about this, there is no question about it. They did this to accommodate DUST, no two ways about it. In the interim, the Op is quite correct, it's just another nail in the Lowsec side of this sandbox. Bad decision by CCP, probably from listening to bad advice.
Before the screams start - I do not do PI, never have and don't want to, especially not now. I do however feel saddened that lowsec is dealt yet another bad hand. There are other existing conditions which should of and could of been addressed in order to prepare for the eventual DUST (read the Dev blogs), but face it CCP, this was a terrible decision. You're listening to the wrong people - again. Haemorrhaging paying customers - again. haemorrhaging / hemorraging for British and Americans
Remember Incarna.
Peace, out. o/ The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |

Lump Hammer
Angel Constellation
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 16:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Welcome back to highsec 
This.
PI in hi-sec is still very profitable despite the taxes. Sure, output volumes might be less, but there is still good isk to be made, especially if you use alts as well. |

Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
225
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 19:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
I also find the idea that 'low sec is deader' because of this silly.
The region I'm living in, low sec and the adjoining npc nullsec space is more busy than ever, with people doing things left, right and center. Things USED to be much more quiet around here, but they've definitely livened up. There are several (medium) powerblocks that are vieing for control of a lot of planets, there's wardecs left and right, coalitions forming, breaking, people asking WTF just happened as they warp away with their pods, roams, gangs, camps, the works.
I also made a bundle selling all my reserve stocks I had been piling up when crucible hit. The massive spike in prices and panic was very very profitable. My own setups have also changed, going back to the 'old' system of making P2s on the planets where I extract the goods. For making higher end products, a POCO would definitely be recommended though, so you can extract everything you need, make P1s and assemble them to P3 or P4s at a planet with low/zero taxes.
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met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 20:49:00 -
[55] - Quote
Xearal wrote: For making higher end products, a POCO would definitely be recommended though, so you can extract everything you need, make P1s and assemble them to P3 or P4s at a planet with low/zero taxes.
Hey, that's my point actually.
I had an entire chain happening, at the moment I cannot. It took one bored player to pop only one of the Interbus POCO's to force my hand. Sure I can setup another planet of same mats in another system but I am now never sure where/what/who is going to pop the next one.
Given the uncertainty of it now and the inability to defend if I go "the POCO way" I chose to not bother. Many, many players in this game are casual industrialists and for me, I was doing the last thing left I could do casually and still get some thrills.
Just keep in mind, and I am sure CCP are well aware of this - my $15 per month per account as a casual industrialist is worth exactly the same as the most elite PvP'er or the highest alliance leader in the game.
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met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 21:07:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lump Hammer wrote:Tore Vest wrote:Welcome back to highsec  This. PI in hi-sec is still very profitable despite the taxes. Sure, output volumes might be less, but there is still good isk to be made, especially if you use alts as well. Agreed but the added risk of using lowsec to make this profit was also my motivation. The risk is still there but I can't be bothered with lowsec politics and standovers to do PI which is what is making lowsec even more pointless.
Keep in mind that the politics and crap in null is/was enough to push many, many people back to high - now CCP are (inadvertently perhaps) adding lowsec to the "It's mine" alliances as well.
My OP was a commentary based on this very point. |

Thaylon Sen
The Istari Syndicate
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.02 22:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:No RL industrialist or Business person would tolerate a 30% tax on ANYTHING Except Apple's app store ofc.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1496
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 16:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
met worst wrote:Keep in mind that the politics and crap in null is/was enough to push many, many people back to high - now CCP are (inadvertently perhaps) adding lowsec to the "It's mine" alliances as well.
sorry, badposting forum alt, but that was the anom nerf with the accompanying buff to highsec PvE, not politics which have always existed in nullsec. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4268
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 16:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
met worst wrote:I had an entire chain happening, at the moment I cannot. Have you actually tried, or did you just give up at first sight? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1236
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 17:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Andski wrote:met worst wrote:Keep in mind that the politics and crap in null is/was enough to push many, many people back to high - now CCP are (inadvertently perhaps) adding lowsec to the "It's mine" alliances as well. That was the anom nerf
quoting for truth |
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