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45thtiger011
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:47:00 -
[1]
This is just something that occured to me as i was browsing the forums, (noticed a thread about n00bs in BSs). Anyway i was wondering what the experienced players of eve think about how much SP you should have before jumping into that BS/Cruiser/HAC w/e and taking it for a spin in low-sec/0.0
For the record i have been playing this game awhile (just shy of 15m SP around 1yr in the game), however i've met people who been playing since the beta, so i know there's alot which experience has yet to teach me.
Anyway guys and gals. What would you say the minimum SP for PvP with each class of ship is? Come on, don't be shy.
(BTW. This is not my main just a secondary char on my main account i forgot why i created...) |
Lore Isander
Caldari
The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen
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Posted - 2007.05.29 04:49:00 -
[2]
Full T2 fit, Support at 4-5
is IMO what you need to have to fly the ship properly.
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Nerogk Shorn
Caldari
Royal Hiigaran Navy
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:00:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nerogk Shorn on 29/05/2007 05:01:08
I'm not really sure on the ammounts that people should have before they fly a bs. Though this is my general rule, of advice to newer players:
First get your learning skills up, at times delving into combat oriented skills.
Then get some base skills like gunnery/missiles and engineering/electronics.
Then train for an interceptor and assault frigate and fly those around. Then only after that I suggest getting into bigger ships like BC and BS. It will benefit you in the end. As to cruisers, I would say don't get into them until you've flown frigs for at LEAST 2 weeks. I'd say 3-4 is better. Then you'll go back to frigs when you get the tech 2 variety.
I'm sorry that's so vague, but I'd say that's probably around 5-6M skill points, but to be honest, the skill points don't matter nearly as much as the time spent in smaller, faster, more fragile, and more tactical ships (frigs).
D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S |
Snikkt
Time Cube Syndicate
Ghosts Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:04:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Nerogk Shorn
Edited by: Nerogk Shorn on 29/05/2007 05:01:08
I'm not really sure on the ammounts that people should have before they fly a bs. Though this is my general rule, of advice to newer players:
First get your learning skills up, at times delving into combat oriented skills.
Then get some base skills like gunnery/missiles and engineering/electronics.
Then train for an interceptor and assault frigate and fly those around. Then only after that I suggest getting into bigger ships like BC and BS. It will benefit you in the end. As to cruisers, I would say don't get into them until you've flown frigs for at LEAST 2 weeks. I'd say 3-4 is better. Then you'll go back to frigs when you get the tech 2 variety.
I'm sorry that's so vague, but I'd say that's probably around 5-6M skill points, but to be honest, the skill points don't matter nearly as much as the time spent in smaller, faster, more fragile, and more tactical ships (frigs).
Good man.
Quoting for good post.
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My opinions (ie, all of my posting here) are not my corporations. Nor should it be taken as such. |
45thtiger011
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:12:00 -
[5]
good stuff. The smaller T2 ships idea is good, it's a shame most are so expensive though (unless you're in a corp with a T2 BPO...)
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Valandril
Caldari
Reiketsu.
Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: 45thtiger011
good stuff. The smaller T2 ships idea is good, it's a shame most are so expensive though (unless you're in a corp with a T2 BPO...)
Don't fly afs theyr not worth the isk u have to pay for them (u can only kill other frigs and very very very nub setup and piloted cruisers), best you can do is fly cruisers/frigs to train, gain some skill then train in bs with friends and when u got some skills for it (fitting skils, awu 3, some mil in weapon, perfect tank trained and good drones support) then u can start using this most expensive ship in pvp :P
As for hacs, preqs are similar but they require much more skill, especialy since tier 2 bcs are here.
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Cheap paint ftw |
Nerogk Shorn
Caldari
Royal Hiigaran Navy
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: 45thtiger011
good stuff. The smaller T2 ships idea is good, it's a shame most are so expensive though (unless you're in a corp with a T2 BPO...)
Don't fly afs theyr not worth the isk u have to pay for them (u can only kill other frigs and very very very nub setup and piloted cruisers), best you can do is fly cruisers/frigs to train, gain some skill then train in bs with friends and when u got some skills for it (fitting skils, awu 3, some mil in weapon, perfect tank trained and good drones support) then u can start using this most expensive ship in pvp :P
As for hacs, preqs are similar but they require much more skill, especialy since tier 2 bcs are here.
Maybe assault frigates aren't great for solo pvp (although that's certainly arguable), they are great for missions and group/gang pvp. Again, it helps you learn what is needed for larger ships.
D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S |
Valandril
Caldari
Reiketsu.
Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nerogk Shorn
Maybe assault frigates aren't great for solo pvp (although that's certainly arguable), they are great for missions and group/gang pvp. Again, it helps you learn what is needed for larger ships.
Well if u will beat well piloted cruiser pilot in and af, then i will stand naked in mid of jita and yell that theyr great for solopvp :P
And about gang, what role they fill ? Tackler ? Tier 1 interceptor will be cheaper and will do job better. Dps ship ? Cruiser will outdps it and also cost cheaper.
Afs would be fine if they would cost about 2-3mil isk but for current price, theyr just not worth it.
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Cheap paint ftw |
Zirth
Caldari
Dragonian Freelancers
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:48:00 -
[9]
Well obviously there¦s no set minimum value, but practically it¦s really hard to determine too.
Keyword here is specializing. There¦s people with 15m sp who can fly amazing battlecruisers and HACs of different races, but cannot really fly a battleship. Then there¦s people with the same ammount of sp, who cannot fly recons or HACs but can fly kickess battleships.
It really depends on where you put your skillpoints, and what you want to skip training.
In general you have so called support skills. Like Mechanic, energineering etc. These do not only allow you to equip basic equipment, but also boost your ships attributes. This is quite important as it makes your ship easier to fit, stronger, faster, more agile, whatever.
Then you have the skills at high levels. Like medium hybrid at V, this allows you with a few other skills to use Tech2 hybrid guns. These aren¦t needed, especially caldari battleships do not benefit loads from T2 guns. Especially as named modules. often get very close, and at times exceed the strength of T2 modules. T2 isn¦t neccisary if you can use named. Support skills are great to have, but also not required.
In the end you must find your own way of training. I¦d suggest to simply start small, there¦s no set ammount of sp that makes a good battleship user. You need experience too.
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45thtiger011
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Posted - 2007.05.29 06:08:00 -
[10]
yes, well no argument about T2. While sometimes it is a tough descion certain T2 fittings have an advantage over T1/Named. Like T2 vs best named might have the same stats but T2 is cheaper b/c of high skill req... T2 Launchers/Turrets have T2 Ammo, and some T2 gear (e.g. hardeners) just have better stats than best named...
and like i said, i'm no newb, i'm mainly interested in the thoughts of players who've been here longer than i have... plus if this helps some of the newer people *cough*ebay*cough* then thats good too. |
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2007.05.29 06:43:00 -
[11]
The two most important things are to
[list]a) have fun in what you do
1) don't fly anything you can't afford to lose[\list]
While tech II kits in most cases better than even best named they can be expensive. So when checking out a frigate, there are only very few tech II mods you will want to use (small armour repper II is a great example, damage mods if you use them tech II etc, but the rest might be better off with cheap named gear).
If you start out solo you should be looking at high sp and specced. If you go in gangs you might start with just a M or 2 sp ..
HAC - full tech II including weapons, and support to 4-5, including nav, electr, engi skills
BS - full tech II including at least the skills for weapons, and support to 4-5
Cruiser - tech II tank , decent weapon skills and support skills available
Frigates - basic propulsion jamming, weapons, good navigation and tanking .. well..
Frigates can be great to train in as can tech I cruisers, just not so much for the solo work as most people can kill a low sp tech I frig with drones or just a couple salvo's.. A cruiser might get you valuable solo experience at a loss of just 6-10M a pop, depending on your friends.
Higher class ships are for more experienced people imho.
As for sp, as mentioned before it depends on how much you are specced: a char with half your sp could be a great small ship pilot but could also lack any good combat skills..
Having at least 1M sp in general support, 750k in weapon support, 2M in weapons, 1M in tanking, and 2M in rest skills would mean a 7M char at least .. and most people have more in their 'rest' skills..
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me..
Drone guide.. |
Riho
Gallente
Magnificent Beavers
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.05.29 07:42:00 -
[12]
its not JUST sp... you have to have the SP in the right place allso. i have been playing soon 2 years... got about 20m sp... still dont fly BS even tho im full combat char.
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Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it
Great being Gallente... aint it ?
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YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog
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Scraqp
Advocates
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Posted - 2007.05.29 08:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Riho
its not JUST sp... you have to have the SP in the right place allso. i have been playing soon 2 years... got about 20m sp... still dont fly BS even tho im full combat char.
/signed
it rly depends on where u spend your SP. someone who spends all his SP in BS and BS support skills will jump into it much earlier than someone who spent his points in other categories.
at the moment im working on a BS only char. in a few months i ll be able to tell u how much SP he has :P
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Liam Fremen
Gallente
Global Isk Network
NBSI Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 10:31:00 -
[14]
I don't agree with this, the people in my corp/ally are always suggested as following:
1) Get your learning skills up a bit
2) Get in a battlecruiser as soon as possible with basic fitting / weapons / ew skills trained
3) Take your time for completing learning and doing what you want in eve
This is what i advice everyone beacause a BC permitt you to do about everything in the game, ratting alone in 0.0 (even if low sp) it is a good PVP ship that don't cost much, it don't need to have "bs sized" modules so you can just work on your cruiser sized module skills and maxing them out with ease.
A battleship was something of useful for ratting when BC were not existing, it was good even to get in a bs with LOW sp due to the enormous HP / Fitting difference from Cruiser to BS :)
Actually flying a bs is completely pointless unless you have gooooood skills, a Tier 2 Battlecruiser will perform way better and last longer with lower sp :)
Check me out! I'm so badass that i scare off myself! |
Zekk Pacus
Caldari
StateCorp
The State
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Posted - 2007.05.29 10:46:00 -
[15]
Before flying a ship, make sure you have the following (this applies to BC and upwards):
Electronics/Engineering/Weapon Upgrades V (helps fitting, if I gank one more Ion megathron fitted with two RCUs I'll scream)
AWU IV (again, fitting)
All the tanking skills for your chosen race:
-Tactical Shield Manipulation, Shield Operation, Shield Upgrades if you're Caldari
-Hull Upgrades, Mechanic, Repair Systems Operation if you're Amarr/Gallente
-Both if you're Minmatar (you picked hard mode, sorry)
'Support skills':
-All the cap related stuff (can't remember them off hand)
-Navigation to IV
Of course all the weaponry related to your choice of ship (the related weapon to IV, and the gunnery support stuff)
Drones - in some ships a full field of t2 drones can make the difference between killing a tackler and his friend and between dying horribly.
Obviously you don't need to have all of that the second you jump into a ship, but I would regard the above as the minimum you need before you can consider yourself 'well-skilled' in a certain ship. And I haven't even mentioned t2 weaponry.
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lyrenna
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.29 10:57:00 -
[16]
getting experience, learning gang mechanics, pvp tactics and tricks>sp
to sad its need to be done in pratic, so relatively cheap and affordable ships with affordable setups helps
an old turkish proveb says only way to learn trashing is getting trashed.
but maxed fitting skills, maxed nearly maxed basic shield/hull/armor skills, navigation skills, some electronic(signature analysis etc) and especialy CAP skills always helps in any situation.
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when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten.
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!!!
"sig hijack!"
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Liam Fremen
Gallente
Global Isk Network
NBSI Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 11:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: lyrenna
when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten.
Oh ****.... i'm screwed.
Check me out! I'm so badass that i scare off myself! |
lyrenna
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.29 11:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Liam Fremen
Originally by: lyrenna
when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten.
Oh ****.... i'm screwed.
 think poor kittens & unlucky guys who damped to stone age by you
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when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten.
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!!!
"sig hijack!"
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.29 11:21:00 -
[19]
Here are the basic skills a noob needs to fly a BS:
Social 3-4
Connections 2-3
Negotiations 4
Diplomacy 2 {optional}
or: 0.0 belt availability.
Because quite frankly, you should be asking yourself how much isk can you afford to lose if the ship explodes rather than how many SPs should you have. I agree with the Liam guy a few posts up. It seems like lots of people in threads like this tell new players that they need 20-30 million SPs and a full T2 fitting to fly a BS just to stroke their own fragile egos. Like the BS class of ships is some "exclusive club" for the elite. I agree that you should have good gun support, Cap, Drone and tanking skills but this crap about complete T2 fittings is trash advice best ignored.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.05.29 11:33:00 -
[20]
You can fly a half-T2 fitted BC after 3 month and find stuff that will be a good target for you. No doubt you shouldnt engage same ship-type that is 1 year older then you, but if you know what your doing, you can engage even half-year older guys.
Like was said above, not everyone specializes, you can find 20mil SP pilots who have 3 races trained therefore he got approx 6-7mil SP in each while also taking some SP into account for overall skills in Electronics/Engy/Gunnery. So if you have say 10mil SP specced in one race, you are equally on par SP wise. If he has less expirience, then you can easily engage him.
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VicturusTeSaluto
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Posted - 2007.05.29 11:57:00 -
[21]
Skill points are no where near as important as people try to make out. They just need to be in the right area. Honestly, wetware is always going to be your biggest limitation, not SP. Also, different races have different sp requirements. Gallente are the easiest to start with. Other races like minmatar take longer to pay off.
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