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Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:03:00 - [1] Are really awesome, except for the Basilisk, and to a slightly lesser extend the Guardian. A run down: Near HAC quality speed and agility[Gaurdian is roughly as fast as a Zealot, Scimitar nearly as fast as a Vaga]. This is unchanged from current. Fiting bonuses to Remote Armor Rep/Shield Boost/Cap boost modules allow the fiting of multipule large sized units. More Powergrid and CPU all around Same Sloting. Standardized bonuses for shield boosting, armor boosting, tracking links, and cap boosting.[150% range/lvl on cruiser for all, 15% cap use for cap transfer, armor repair, and shield transporting, +5% boost for tracking modules] Repair Drones are twice as effective[20% repair amount/level on cruiser for specific use] Full t2 resistances instead of half t2 resistances. Bonuses are as follows: Guardian: Cap/Armor, 25m^3 drone bay. Oneiros: Armor/Tracking Links, 50m^3 Drone bay Scimiatar: Shield/Tracking Links, 40m^3 drone bay. Basilisk: Shield/Cap, 25m^3 drone bay. The Problem Large sized cap/armor modules mean that the Guardian and Basilisk are underslotted compared to the Oneiros and Scimitar. 4 repair modules is about going to cap out a reasonable setup that also has to be fitted to get away from things, and the 2 extra mid/low slots mean the Scimitar and Oneiros are at a considerable advantage. However, where the Guardian is much lighter and smaller than the Oneiros while only being margainly slower the Basilisk is the slowest, heaviest, and largest of all the ships. As well, since Basilisks and Gaurdians are now able to fit large numbers of large remote repair/boosting units, the utility of being able to cap transfer or have extra slots is diminished. This is especialy true since the ships cant sustain capacitor for avoiding enemies and running large numbers of remote reps/boosters at the same time. For instance. An Oreinos transfers 360 armor/second raw to a target with 4 large remote reps and uses about 60 cap a second at max skills. 5 use 76 and 6 use 91. A Guardian with 4 heals 336 armor/second. Shield transfers are slightly faster than that at 377 for the scimitar and 365 for the basilisk. But the basilisk neither has the innate capacitor strength that the Guardian does, nor the speed and agility boosts over its competitor. This means that for reasonable cap outputs[otherwise the ship will be a sitting duck] the Basilisk is slower, less agile, and doesnt even repair as much as the scimitar. Easy answer to bring them into allignment: Basilisk needs another low in place of a high. Guardian needs another mid in place of a high. Basilisk needs a big speed and agility buff. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:03:00 - [2] Edited by: Goumindong on 30/05/2007 07:03:26 Originally by: Hectaire Glade The drone bay sizes are a little harsh, 50m3 all round would have been preferable, confining them to using baby repair drones is a bit bleh. If there is a way to restrict the drone types you can put in the bays on these ships (EWAR and Logistics only) and increase the size to 50m3 across the board or even bigger, it would add an extra dimension. OP, great analysis. Tech 2 repair drones are seemingly in the database now[just added, but i havent checked them out]. Heavy repair drones are a whole lot better than meds[and would probably be unbalanced]. The speed difference is what matters for the intended range of operation i am thinking. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.30 08:02:00 - [3] Originally by: Sanctus Maleficus I did notice one thing, however, just now. The Guardian's base cap recharge rate is about 15% better than the Onieros... basically as if it came with a Cap Recharger "built in". However it still has a total of 9 mid/low slots to the Guardians 7. Seems if the Guardian had 8 it would even the odds. Midslots = Cap Battery. Guardian benefits less from these. As well. they provide much more than 15% regen ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:47:00 - [4] Edited by: Goumindong on 30/05/2007 21:46:42 Originally by: Sanctus Maleficus I feel even with the new changes, they may be in too much of a dangerous position. Only 75k from battle, you can still be taken out by something fast, or something with long range. What do you guys think about a module that extends the range of remote modules? I would love to get the range up to the 150k range or even father if I sacrificed repping/transfer amount for range (it still needs to be balanced). You think it would be too powerful? It would be too powerful[and at the same time, not powerful enough]. The tradeoff for the ship is basically attempting to balance speed[Guardian and Scimitar operate about as fast as their HAC counterparts, which means very very fast], EW defence[ECCM+sensor booster], and cap in order to keep away from enemies intent on killing you while maintaining your ability to repair. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.06 05:33:00 - [5] Edited by: Goumindong on 06/06/2007 05:32:36 Only the Basilisk and Guardian can really make a good daisy chain. Because only they are able to fit cap transfers, and cant come anywhere near cap stability on a 2+ lar quality tank when fitting resistance mods on the others. Fortounatly they have weaknesses. The guardian cannot fit much ewar protection in its single mid slot unless it has no propulsion. The basilisk must dump its tank in order to do so. As well, the basilisk is the heaviest and slowest of the logistics ships in the game. A guardian will be running about 3-4km/s in a rigged speed fit[2 OD, 2 polycrabon rigs and will be rough on cap stability without a daisy chain, and wont have much ewar protection due to the 2 mids, one of which dedicated to propulsion], and a basilisk is 7.5% slower, and ~50% heavier. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:33:00 - [6] A scimitar with 200 more PG would be stupidly overpowered. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.07 20:05:00 - [7] Yes, the ability to be 70km away from the battle going 3-4km/s is definitly a mitigating factor as to the quality of the ship that has to be balanced with its bonus. A scimitar can fit 3x Large Shield Transporters[best named] and an MWD. It can transfer 230.4 raw hp/second with that(not including drones which can add another 57.6 hp/second). It costs 50 cap/second to do so while MWDing. It is fully cap stable with the fitting: 3x LST, drone control range MWD, 4x CRII 2x ODII, 2x Beta CPR 2x Polycarbon It is fully cap stable with the fitting 3x LST, drone control range MWD, sensor booster, 3x CRII 1x OD, 3x Beta CPR 2x Polycarbon It is nearly cap stable with the fitting[its short only the sensor booster and ECCM cap] 3x LST, drone control range MWD, Sensor booster x2, ECCM, 1x CRII 4 x Beta CPR 2x polycarbon Such a ship has a lock range of 180km[hard to damp], and a sensor strength of 33.32 Yea, a basilisk and a Guardian can daisy chain really well and get eaten alive by EW[guardian only has 2 mids], or just get out-dps'd[basilisk that attempts to protect agianst EW has a 2 slot tank]. Not to mention that you have to have another basilisk or guardian[Oneiros or Scimitar wont cut it] in order to make those work. Not to mention that the amount of CPU used for a 5 LSTs and a cap transfer is significantly more than scimitar uses and the Basilisk only gets 18.75 more CPU in total in order to fit 159 more CPU worth of mods and 480 more PG worth of mods[with its 343 PG advantage]. None of them are perfect, but the scimitar is the best in the most situations since it can run around, not be caught, and not be neutralized the easiest while still providing boost to the tune of 2x XL booster IIs+ SBA ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.07 20:43:00 - [8] The scimitar has a BASE 60km lock range and the skill that boosts lock range by 5%/level is required to be at 5 to even fly it! ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.07 20:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Triest Originally by: Goumindong The scimitar has a BASE 60km lock range and the skill that boosts lock range by 5%/level is required to be at 5 to even fly it! Oh, they changed that too, then, I hadn't checked. Even so, it's highly vulnerable to damping in the first configuration. Yes, like all the others, it is decidedly imperfect. That does not mean it is not strong. It just means its not perfect. The solution is not to make the ship the perfect shield booster. with a t2 MWD,2 x t2 overdrives, and 2 polycarbon rigs a scimitar will go about 5km/s. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.07 20:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Triest Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 07/06/2007 20:49:08 The scimitar has a BASE 60km lock range and the skill that boosts lock range by 5%/level is required to be at 5 to even fly it! Yea a 10km/s inty can catch it[and if it forgoes drones, it can die to the 5 warrior IIs in the bay as well]. Yea, a basilisk having a 2 slot tank and needing another similarly fit basilisk there to keep it alive is a real downer. That the scimitar can provide >battleship level shield boosting and still be hard to kill is decidedly powerful. Give me a minute and ill give you a guesimation on how fast that scimitar will be going with decent quality mods. How is a 10km/s inty going to die to 5 warrior IIs on a ship with no web? Even a cheap, 5-6 km/s inty (easily achievable nowadays) won't get scratched. Yup, my mistake. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.11 21:14:00 - [11] Edited by: Goumindong on 11/06/2007 21:14:24 Originally by: Nian Banks Wheres its tank? Wheres its Tracking Links? Wheres its T2 Large Shield Transporters? LOL your lame as, come back with a better excuse to prove that the Scimitar doesn't need more power grid, because this ones a flop mate, a big asses flop. Lame. And yes the LSTII is 10% better than your named module so to me 10% is a big difference, so it must be able to fit Large Shield Transporter II's or it aint good enough. Period! Best named LSTs run the same boost as LST IIs. Oneiros cant run 3 lrars with tracking links at the same time, not enough cap. Its also a lot slower. LST = 160 PG. Lrar = 600 PG, 300 PG after boost Oneiros = about 300 more PG than the scimitar. 3x Lrars will put the Oneiros in the hole compared to the Scimitar. The 300 PG more it has base is eaten up by the 140 PG each lrar uses.[420 PG extra for 3] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.13 23:05:00 - [12] My mistake on the 50-65 bonus. But i would still rather have a living, non-ewar'd scimitar, than a dead oneiros. Also, the speed fir runs 3 LSTs. It cant get the cap for 4 on a speed fit anyway. None of them really can. And the scimitar is the fastest. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.22 19:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Roemy Schneider hummm maybe i'm not seeing it but why do the ships have this pg spread? Because if they didnt, the Scimitar and Oneiros would be stupidly overpowered.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.03 05:47:00 - [14] The gaurdian has more PG than the Oneiros. The scimitar is a shield tanker, the Oneiros is an armor tanker. An oneiros can fit 1 MAR with 220 PG and maybe an afterburner. A scimitar can fit 1 Medium Shield Booster with its remaining powergrid. These both boost the same amount This if fairly balanced. The oneiros cannot do the things you mention without dropping remote reps. Remote Armor reps are more cap efficient because shield reps boost at the begining of a cycle and armor reps boost at the end of a cycle. If you are boosting something for 10 cycles before it dies, the remote shield booster will have boosted more HP since the armor rep didnt get to boost that last cycle. This is getting ridiculous. I have already shown you how you can speed tank the scimitar. Yes you cant do it while boosting as much as the others. This is what we call balance, since the speed tank is so much more effective at keeping a ship alive than any other form of tank. And the primary benefit for a logistics ship cannot be achieved if it is dead[and in fact if it doesnt get a chance to remote boost anyone, its less than usefull]
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:18:00 - [15] Yes, i think something that repairs 230 shield hit points per second from 70km away while traveling 4000 m/s and nearly ewar immune is quite potent. Much more potent that the ships that cannot come anywhere close to that. And yes, the shield tank that i described for that scimitar is of the same strength or stronger than the armor tank you described for the oneiros

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