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CCP, Logging out to avoid death. Big problem.

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Dirge	Posted - 2004.01.10 17:47:00 - [1] Edited by: Dirge on 10/01/2004 17:49:27 During the past several weeks, I have noticed more and more battleship pilots turning on shield hardeners and logging out to avoid death (One name in particular rings a bell here. Don't worry old girl, we WILL get you.). This combined with insta-jump bookmarks at the gates are causing major problems with Eve's pvp. Please fix it, thanks. And while your at it, could you address the bug where your ship suddenly appears as several ships all put together in a mass, it's annoying during fleet battles, thanks.
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.01.10 17:50:00 - [2] Yes I have always thought that this tactic is kind of low. I don¦t think there is one perfect solution to this problem other than integrety of the players. Having said that than I promise never to log off in battle. __________ Capacitor research
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.01.10 18:21:00 - [3] Quote: Please fix it, thanks. You do realise you're asking the impossible - or at least, the hopelessly unfeasible. Leaving ships in space for less time = people logging out to avoid death, but leaving ships in space for more time = people with dropped connections getting killed through no fault of their own. No doubt, as an avid PvP fan, you prefer the latter, but there's a lot more of us than there are of you _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Panzer	Posted - 2004.01.10 18:32:00 - [4] WEll as one evolution guy mentioned(I forget who it was) modules should be deactivated when logging off. And in my opinion the log off time should be made 1.5-2 minutes in conjunction with that. It would fix this stuff. If you CTD you can just petition.
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.01.10 18:47:00 - [5] "You do realise you're asking the impossible - or at least, the hopelessly unfeasible. Leaving ships in space for less time = people logging out to avoid death, but leaving ships in space for more time = people with dropped connections getting killed through no fault of their own." ... How about making the log out timer longer if some other player has active lock on your ship at the moment of logout? Then if someone crashes in belt with NPC's they disappear in normal way, and when someone tries to escape in battle their ships stays around for long enough. Of course, those who crash in battle are kinda screwed by that but they're screwed anyway when that happens, so 'tis not any real difference. :s
Faramir	Posted - 2004.01.10 19:02:00 - [6] Edited by: Faramir on 10/01/2004 19:05:04 Current problem is also: Cloaking timer at gates: 1 minute Log off timer while not in combat: 1 minute Anyone see an easy way to avoid gatecamps? You can simply jump into a system, see a camp... log off and as soon as you are uncloaked your ship will disappear from space. Easiest way not to get killed at a gatecamp... IF the jump in points would actually work...
Nirvy	Posted - 2004.01.10 19:17:00 - [7] Quote: Edited by: Faramir on 10/01/2004 19:05:04 Current problem is also: Cloaking timer at gates: 1 minute Log off timer while not in combat: 1 minute Anyone see an easy way to avoid gatecamps? You can simply jump into a system, see a camp... log off and as soon as you are uncloaked your ship will disappear from space. Easiest way not to get killed at a gatecamp... IF the jump in points would actually work... Not true, when you log off, the cloak de-activates, leaving a ship with no hardeners running i believe, should be easily killable in 1 minute. Of course the fact that logging in as your alt immediately removes your main ship from space is lame :( Mercenary \| The Azath
AikenAidan	Posted - 2004.01.10 19:20:00 - [8] Edited by: AikenAidan on 10/01/2004 19:21:51 Here is one that doesn't seem to get the game managers attention: When you warp to a gate there is a 10 second delay wile you see 'WARP DRIVE ACTIVE' on Your screen ,and can't do anything. BUT the Gate Campers can see you, and start lock on wile your STUCK there. [I almost died that way once. I hade good shields a cruiser, and MWD'd to the gate when I could move.] You will even take Hits if they have a fast locking time.. Bet you the Campers didn't report that BUG now would they.
Toulak	Posted - 2004.01.10 19:26:00 - [9] Quote: Bet you the Campers didn't report that BUG now would they Erm no, they wouldnt.. Cause they cant see your screen can they.
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.01.10 19:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Ulendar on 10/01/2004 19:39:50 Edited by: Ulendar on 10/01/2004 19:37:43 Old gripes... It apears there is no solution that will either make it so its unfair to either parties. Either you get the 'tough luck' deal or the 'hehe, screw you' deal. But from my perspective people should stay in space....forever. Even after youve been logged for houres or days your ship is still there. However, to avoid AFK killing make the ships whos pilots are not online unlockable...those who already had a lock at the time of the connection kill keep lock and are free to destroy the ship... If you CTD you petition it and get a new ship (yeah right). If your ISP drops you....well to bad hehe. You would have been screwed anyway. Quote: Edited by: AikenAidan on 10/01/2004 19:21:51 Here is one that doesn't seem to get the game managers attention: When you warp to a gate there is a 10 second delay wile you see 'WARP DRIVE ACTIVE' on Your screen ,and can't do anything. BUT the Gate Campers can see you, and start lock on wile your STUCK there. [I almost died that way once. I hade good shields a cruiser, and MWD'd to the gate when I could move.] You will even take Hits if they have a fast locking time.. Bet you the Campers didn't report that BUG now would they. Actually i believe thats the time it takes for your ship to come out of warp and to a full stop. Incase you didnt know. there is an unvulnerability timer at that point which makes you unlockable, as soon as your ship stops fully the warp drive deactivates and your invulnerability timer expires.. If you claim to have been victim to an incident where people locked on to you while your warp drive was still active then you were dealing with a case of lagg on either end or just a bug. But as it is currently you cannot be killed while coming out of warp. You can however be killed while you are alighning for warp but as soon as your ship enters warp your enemies lose target. EDIT: oh and btw. While you are alighning for warp you can cancel your warp by stopping your ship. So in no situation that follow the normal game mechanics will you ever be STUCK while people are firing on you! Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Vacuole	Posted - 2004.01.10 20:00:00 - [11] Edited by: Vacuole on 10/01/2004 20:03:38 Well, I think that the whole issue with the logout timers is really one of those denial-of-benefits philosophies. You know, kind of like those ink-squirting tags at the store that ruin shoplifted clothing. Here's what I mean: Suppose that there was NO timer, and people that lost connection for whatever reason were just outta luck. Then it would be widely known, and unsavory Eve players might fashion methods of attacking the Eve servers, player's ISP's, etc. with massive denial-of-service. In fact, if memory serves, this has been a problem in the past for Ultima Online, certainly for IRC, etc. Kids mad at each other will do all sorts of weird things to the servers or anyone else who stands in their way or can provide a way of imposing their will. So, I think it might be a policy geared more toward protecting CCP's assets more than protecting players. So, with the timer, any prospecting unsavory player would reap no benefit with such unmentionable acts, and so they don't bother. Call me crazy, but I think that if there's a way to exploit it will be taken advantage of, ESPECIALLY in multiplayer games like Eve.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.01.10 21:19:00 - [12] Quote: ... How about making the log out timer longer if some other player has active lock on your ship at the moment of logout? Then if someone crashes in belt with NPC's they disappear in normal way, and when someone tries to escape in battle their ships stays around for long enough. Of course, those who crash in battle are kinda screwed by that but they're screwed anyway when that happens, so 'tis not any real difference. :s I'd support this, as well as preventing logging an alt on the same account to pull the main character out of space prematurely. If you are locked, whether it be NPC's or PC's, you should NOT be able to logout to avoid death, surely that is the very essence of an "Exploit"?
Toastmaster	Posted - 2004.01.10 21:33:00 - [13] If you log in an alt your main is still in space... Try it... you can kill your own alt if you like "viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.01.10 21:36:00 - [14] Quote: Of course the fact that logging in as your alt immediately removes your main ship from space is lame :( Thought they fixed this in a previous patch? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Jarjar	Posted - 2004.01.10 21:41:00 - [15] Edited by: Jarjar on 10/01/2004 21:41:50 Quote: Quote: Of course the fact that logging in as your alt immediately removes your main ship from space is lame :( Thought they fixed this in a previous patch? They changed it in the first place so people with bountys can't pod themselves with an alt. Should be possible to fix in another way, like a change so that you can't see your "own" (same account) ships that currently have pilots.
Drutort	Posted - 2004.01.10 22:18:00 - [16] Quote: Edited by: Ulendar on 10/01/2004 19:39:50 Edited by: Ulendar on 10/01/2004 19:37:43 Old gripes... It apears there is no solution that will either make it so its unfair to either parties. Either you get the 'tough luck' deal or the 'hehe, screw you' deal. But from my perspective people should stay in space....forever. Even after youve been logged for houres or days your ship is still there. However, to avoid AFK killing make the ships whos pilots are not online unlockable...those who already had a lock at the time of the connection kill keep lock and are free to destroy the ship... If you CTD you petition it and get a new ship (yeah right). If your ISP drops you....well to bad hehe. You would have been screwed anyway. Quote: Edited by: AikenAidan on 10/01/2004 19:21:51 Here is one that doesn't seem to get the game managers attention: When you warp to a gate there is a 10 second delay wile you see 'WARP DRIVE ACTIVE' on Your screen ,and can't do anything. BUT the Gate Campers can see you, and start lock on wile your STUCK there. [I almost died that way once. I hade good shields a cruiser, and MWD'd to the gate when I could move.] You will even take Hits if they have a fast locking time.. Bet you the Campers didn't report that BUG now would they. Actually i believe thats the time it takes for your ship to come out of warp and to a full stop. Incase you didnt know. there is an unvulnerability timer at that point which makes you unlockable, as soon as your ship stops fully the warp drive deactivates and your invulnerability timer expires.. If you claim to have been victim to an incident where people locked on to you while your warp drive was still active then you were dealing with a case of lagg on either end or just a bug. But as it is currently you cannot be killed while coming out of warp. You can however be killed while you are alighning for warp but as soon as your ship enters warp your enemies lose target. EDIT: oh and btw. While you are alighning for warp you can cancel your warp by stopping your ship. So in no situation that follow the normal game mechanics will you ever be STUCK while people are firing on you! your solution has a hole... you dont need to lock someone to blow them up... you can just lock someone else by that person and fire a lot of missiles and they will hit first the other player and not the person that you have locked... thus blowing up that person that is afk support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Huney	Posted - 2004.01.10 22:31:00 - [17] Quote: Edited by: Dirge on 10/01/2004 17:49:27 During the past several weeks, I have noticed more and more battleship pilots turning on shield hardeners and logging out to avoid death (One name in particular rings a bell here. Don't worry old girl, we WILL get you.). This combined with insta-jump bookmarks at the gates are causing major problems with Eve's pvp. Please fix it, thanks. And while your at it, could you address the bug where your ship suddenly appears as several ships all put together in a mass, it's annoying during fleet battles, thanks. Gank oops I mean Tank CEO has mastered this p@ssy manuever! Sad really!
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.01.10 22:45:00 - [18] Quote: "You do realise you're asking the impossible - or at least, the hopelessly unfeasible. Leaving ships in space for less time = people logging out to avoid death, but leaving ships in space for more time = people with dropped connections getting killed through no fault of their own." ... How about making the log out timer longer if some other player has active lock on your ship at the moment of logout? Then if someone crashes in belt with NPC's they disappear in normal way, and when someone tries to escape in battle their ships stays around for long enough. Of course, those who crash in battle are kinda screwed by that but they're screwed anyway when that happens, so 'tis not any real difference. :s Wrong: I once had a BSOD in a battle where i could easily get out if the BSOD didn't occure, so your wrong on that. Im 100% since i hit autopilot and the second after that i BSOD, there was no way he could have target my pod that fast + warpscramble. And where does the active target lock stop? Do NPC's count in that, and second but not least will it cause even more lag to the lock or even whole game if theres a new process added to be executed by the servers. Like the guy said: people with dropped connections getting killed through no fault of their own, or even players who get a ctd/bsod due to bugs like i did. And the powergrid bug if you might remember that, logging off my character saved me from getting owned by npc's that i could easily handle without the grid bug. I agree that this should be dealt with, but on reasonable terms and not a whole server to suffer from. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Dukath	Posted - 2004.01.10 23:03:00 - [19] The solution i have suggested (and hopefully it will be implemented by the devs) is this. When the server detects a disconnect, either by a logoff or a crash the ship performs a warp operation to a random spot in space. (the chance that it warps to a non safe spot is almost nonexistant since the systems are hundreds of AU big. If the player was not fighting then he will be safe. No change. If the player was fighting but not scrambled then he will probably warp out, unless the other players kill him before his ship kicks into warp. (but then he would have been dead anyway) If the player was fighting and scrambled then of course the ship does not warp out and he'll die. Of course this method is not 100% foolproof but i think its a lot better than the current situation that is just too easy to exploit. (maybe make it a teleport if the player was fighting NPCs, so 15 seconds after the disconnect the ship gets teleported if only attacked by NPC, not counting CONCORD of course)
Sally	Posted - 2004.01.10 23:14:00 - [20] Instant jump book marks need to be removed. Once for all! -- Stories: #1 --
Star Nove	Posted - 2004.01.10 23:16:00 - [21] Quote: WEll as one evolution guy mentioned(I forget who it was) modules should be deactivated when logging off. And in my opinion the log off time should be made 1.5-2 minutes in conjunction with that. It would fix this stuff. If you CTD you can just petition. LOL you do know that if you petition for a thing like CTD's, NPC bugs (rats killing you too fast, CONCORD attacking for no apparent reason, etc.) you get the response "there is no proof, we're sorry, go away". So your solution isnt a solution at all... -nove ------------------------- The great comic WDA
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.01.10 23:41:00 - [22] Quote: your solution has a hole... you dont need to lock someone to blow them up... you can just lock someone else by that person and fire a lot of missiles and they will hit first the other player and not the person that you have locked... thus blowing up that person that is afk Hehehe... I knew this was going to come. Yes you dont need to lock someone to kill them. What i actually ment was make that person INVULNERABLE to attacks while AFK in space EXCEPT by those who had already locked the person. IE aslong as the person is locked he is vulnerable to combatdamage. To answer your question about targeting someone behind the person and spamming off an arai of missiles..... I belive the simple removal of the collisionbox after a person has logged and has become unlocked by everyone is the answer. Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
SithEwok	Posted - 2004.01.11 00:03:00 - [23] a bloodhound mod will be comming soon to end this topic. will sniff out the warp signatures, and the ships will stay in space a bit longer after log out is committed. (I HOPE)
SithEwok	Posted - 2004.01.11 00:04:00 - [24] Edited by: SithEwok on 11/01/2004 00:04:58 srry web page aint workin too hot anymore.
cball	Posted - 2004.01.11 00:11:00 - [25] Quote: Edited by: Faramir on 10/01/2004 19:05:04 Current problem is also: Cloaking timer at gates: 1 minute Log off timer while not in combat: 1 minute Anyone see an easy way to avoid gatecamps? You can simply jump into a system, see a camp... log off and as soon as you are uncloaked your ship will disappear from space. Easiest way not to get killed at a gatecamp... IF the jump in points would actually work... ....and that player is not playing, so they lose the enjoyment of being in the game with that charactor while the gate camper still is enjoying the game..... ...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
KrapYl	Posted - 2004.01.11 02:13:00 - [26] Quote: Of course the fact that logging in as your alt immediately removes your main ship from space is lame :( ive heard this before, and after shooting my own alternate character down to take hull damage, i must say ur wrong... offcourse, this is a while ago, so i might be the wrong one, if CCP has changed this... ?
Masi	Posted - 2004.01.11 02:32:00 - [27] When u quit you should get a 5 second count down, if u do anything in this time i mean activate anything or make your ship move "It dont matter if your already moving as long as u dont do anything to change speed/direction. This should rest the timer, also if your being shot at. It should reset the timer -------------------------
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.01.11 15:22:00 - [28] This is now getting beyond a joke. Enemy industrials are jumping into a system, seeing us camping it and logging out. They appear for a brief second after the invul timer wears off but disappear as the log out timer counts down. It's getting frustrating. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

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