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Caldari Buff

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Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.09 22:06:00 - [31] Quote: Caldari, do already have the best ships.. I disagree, and I have stated why above. Quote: so lets make them better.. ok lower their armor hp, but if you do lower thier armor resists too! I can see your logic. Will Amarr have their shield resistances reduced too? What about Gallente/Minmatar, who are (in principle) "hybrid" tankers? How do we tackle that? Note that I also proposed that those Caldari ships which currently do get a bonus to armour/shield resistances should only get that bonus to shields. The fact of the matter is that no Caldari ship has enough low slots to pull of a good armour tank, and so your complaint is surely moot. -- Fix Caldari Fix Insurance
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.10 01:06:00 - [32] Edited by: Neuromandis on 10/06/2007 01:06:18 Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos I can see your logic. Will Amarr have their shield resistances reduced too? What about Gallente/Minmatar, who are (in principle) "hybrid" tankers? How do we tackle that? Note that I also proposed that those Caldari ships which currently do get a bonus to armour/shield resistances should only get that bonus to shields. The fact of the matter is that no Caldari ship has enough low slots to pull of a good armour tank, and so your complaint is surely moot. I think you are looking to fix things that are not broken with this suggestion. Caldari can be rebalanced just fine without touching non-broken game mechanics (t2 resists, which work the same for everyone after all). All they need is a little speed imho, and of course the adding of turrets to the poor rail platforms (Merlin, Moa, FEROXXXXXX, probably eagle too)
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.10 01:08:00 - [33] Quote: Caldari can be rebalanced just fine without touching non-broken game mechanics (t2 resists, which work the same for everyone after all). All they need is a little speed imho. My suggestion was only an attempt to placate the nay-sayers... if the resistances stay the same, that's fine by me! -- Fix Caldari Fix Insurance
Fryke Caldari CRESCENT Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.10 12:49:00 - [34] If everybody and their grandma is using it(example would be Raven for PvE) it means it's not balanced and the Devs should fix it up. Just my 2 iskies.
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.10 13:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos My suggestion was only an attempt to placate the nay-sayers... if the resistances stay the same, that's fine by me! Granted. I'd just hate to see such a nice idea be contaminated by random nerfs. Also, keep in mind that it's the devs that do the rebalance, not the naysayers... If you don't think the suggestion is reasonable, you don't have to placate it...
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.10 13:46:00 - [36] Edited by: Neuromandis on 10/06/2007 13:45:27 Originally by: Fryke If everybody and their grandma is using it(example would be Raven for PvE) it means it's not balanced and the Devs should fix it up. Just my 2 iskies. You know what? I agree with you 100%. As long as "fix" does not mean "nerf". I would have no problem whatsoever making the Raven more useful for PVP and less useful for PVE. On the other hand, the OP's suggestion has practically nothing to do with pve (and does not boost it). Also, it's not as if there exists no other PVE ships. For example, I find the Dominix SUPERIOR to the raven for PVE, and the only thing stopping it is the drone-full-aggro bug in missions, which is a bug that needs fixing.
Jaedar Metron I G N O T U S	Posted - 2007.06.10 14:49:00 - [37] Make PVE rats chuck hordes of missiles at missiles. This way, while the other races ships struggle with tanking the rats, Caldari will struggle with killing the rats. Now the mission runners would need to ask themselves, do I want to finsih this fast? Or do I want to watch TV while doing it? Balance Then we can make the Caldari fast like they used to be again I know, I fail at photoshopping :P
Faekurias Caldari Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.18 23:44:00 - [38] I like it and I totally agree, shield gone = Dead caldari anyways. Hey I could even say " take that away, a little little faster but better recharge rate" and Im happy. seeing as to shield boosters being much less effective than armor reppers anyways. TINY KITTEH :( >:) Oh mai GOD!
Faekurias Caldari Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.19 00:27:00 - [39] Originally by: Byson1 Caldari, do already have the best ships.. ... ... ... LOL tbh. made me laugh. lewl . TINY KITTEH :( >:) Oh mai GOD!
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:16:00 - [40] Originally by: Jaedar Metron Make PVE rats chuck hordes of missiles at missiles. They already do. In 90% of mission situations, the Raven is effectively fighting with five, if not four, launchers, thanks to defender spam from every BS rat in the game.

tarin adur Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:56:00 - [41] mmm....So you want to make Caldari ships faster then Gallente/Amarr ships? Well then that's a nerf to gallente + amarr since they have to now mwd to get inside of they're guns optimals,Caldari on the other hand...if fit a mwd can just keep distance from that ship,Not even bother to turn tank on and laugh as the short-range ship kills itself trying to get in range.Sorry but Gallente/amarr have to be faster to be able to get in range. Think of what would happen when a Megathron and a Raven met? Raven mwd's away spewing missiles while the megathron tries to catch up and is chugging Cap boosters to be able to maintain mwd,at the same time tanking and hoping he gets in web range.
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:05:00 - [42] Quote: Well then that's a nerf to gallente + amarr since they have to now mwd to get inside of they're guns optimals,Caldari on the other hand...if fit a mwd can just keep distance from that ship,Not even bother to turn tank on and laugh as the short-range ship kills itself trying to get in range. Gallente can fit railguns for long range and blasters for short, Amarr can fit beams at range and pulse up closer. Caldari get missiles, sometimes/rails blasters but are really inferior to Gallente in this sense (Sniper Megathron > Rokh) Missiles of course are useless at long range as the enemy just warps away. As for mwd'ing away, given that Gallente and Amarr ships have more lowslots, speed fitted Gallente and Amarr ships would still be faster than an equivelant fit on a Caldari ship, and many Gallente ships specifically are more than capable of shield tanking. We can go over those number again if you like - only the Deimos is significantly slower, and it's a ship that needs special attention anyway. All I'm asking is that Caldari are made to be at stock slightly faster than Gallente or Amarr, as the lore would have it. It would not create a major balance upset; it would bring Caldari ships back into the PVP game where they belong, rather than being relegated to missioning and ratting. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
tarin adur Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:11:00 - [43] Quote: Gallente can fit railguns for long range and blasters for short, Amarr can fit beams at range and pulse up closer. Caldari get missiles, sometimes/rails blasters but are really inferior to Gallente in this sense (Sniper Megathron > Rokh) Missiles of course are useless at long range as the enemy just warps away. So,your suggesting i fit Railguns(which do crap damage,and don't do particularly well with Antimatter fitted,Then drop most of my tank to fit speed mods to specificly kill 1 race only? and then get annihilated by all others? A raven with 6 mid-slots can fit 100mn mwd,1 sensor dampener,2 t2 invuls,1 x-l booster and 1 t2 warp disruptor. I did say keep at distance didn't i?
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:31:00 - [44] Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 19/06/2007 05:31:04 Quote: So,your suggesting i fit Railguns(which do crap damage,and don't do particularly well with Antimatter fitted,Then drop most of my tank to fit speed mods to specificly kill 1 race only? and then get annihilated by all others? You just suggested the same thing for the Raven! Quote: 100mn mwd,1 sensor dampener,2 t2 invuls,1 x-l booster and 1 t2 warp disruptor. You forgot the cap injector. Caldari still need one if you intend to run your mwd/tank, as the cycle time on the shield booster is so short and the caldari have little cap. So what goes? -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
tarin adur Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:35:00 - [45] That raven set-up can still tank alot better then a megathron can,and i said,twice now, that the raven will simply keep distance,out of the blasters range and won't even require it's tank to be on.
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:05:00 - [46] Quote: That raven set-up can still tank alot better then a megathron can,and i said,twice now, that the raven will simply keep distance,out of the blasters range and won't even require it's tank to be on. Let me show you those numbers again: Megathron Velocity: 125m/s Mass: 102500000 Raven (after changes proposed in this thread) Velocity: 120m/s Mass: 99000000 So unless you're fitting a 1600mm plate, the Megathron will still be quicker and so your point is moot. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
tarin adur Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:20:00 - [47] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos Quote: That raven set-up can still tank alot better then a megathron can,and i said,twice now, that the raven will simply keep distance,out of the blasters range and won't even require it's tank to be on. Let me show you those numbers again: Megathron Velocity: 125m/s Mass: 102500000 Raven (after changes proposed in this thread) Velocity: 120m/s Mass: 99000000 So unless you're fitting a 1600mm plate, the Megathron will still be quicker and so your point is moot. oh Wow,a whole 5 m/s faster? Well then every 4 minutes(more or less) That megathron got a whole 1km closer to the raven. not to mention it'l take the megathron longer to gain speed due to it's bigger mass.
Ruato Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:28:00 - [48] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Originally by: Jaedar Metron Make PVE rats chuck hordes of missiles at missiles. They already do. In 90% of mission situations, the Raven is effectively fighting with five, if not four, launchers, thanks to defender spam from every BS rat in the game. Most BS rats have fixed 30-40% chance of launching defender missile against every missile you shoot. So if you are not using torpedoes, around 35% of your damage goes bye bye (which is more than annoying) --- *Get rid of those bleeping secure containers. bleep!*
Neener	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:40:00 - [49] Originally by: tarin adur oh Wow,a whole 5 m/s faster? Well then every 4 minutes(more or less) That megathron got a whole 1km closer to the raven. not to mention it'l take the megathron longer to gain speed due to it's bigger mass. Because you seem to think raven is uber pwnmobile, I have a minor challenge for you: Create raven setup that realiably kills megathron in 1v1 situation.
tarin adur Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Neener Originally by: tarin adur oh Wow,a whole 5 m/s faster? Well then every 4 minutes(more or less) That megathron got a whole 1km closer to the raven. not to mention it'l take the megathron longer to gain speed due to it's bigger mass. Because you seem to think raven is uber pwnmobile, I have a minor challenge for you: Create raven setup that realiably kills megathron in 1v1 situation. Since i'm Gallente,and a Megathron pilot,i'l refrain from doing so. I don't think the raven is Uber-pwnmobile,but the changes being described here would make it increasingly hard for the megathron to do anything but roll-over and die vs a raven.

Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:07:00 - [51] Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 19/06/2007 07:07:40 Quote: oh Wow,a whole 5 m/s faster? Well then every 4 minutes(more or less) That megathron got a whole 1km closer to the raven. Assuming they are both MWD fitted with them running, that becomes over 1.6km/min. Given that Caldari are supposedly a race dedicated to military technology and their preference is for ranged combat, that's a pretty fair balance. Quote: not to mention [it'll] take the megathron longer to gain speed due to it's bigger mass. This is true, and this is supposed to be the drawbacks involved in an armour tanked ship. Fit a shield tank and nanos, and you'll catch it without breaking a sweat. Note if you read this thread through I actually make a concession here as well, and suggest that perhaps 10% mass reduction is too much, dropping my request to 5% instead. This would mean that the Raven's mass is actually 1045000000 - more than the Megathron, which would mean the Megathron would not only be faster in the long run, but quicker to accelerate than the Raven. Quote: Since i'm Gallente,and a Megathron pilot,i'l refrain from doing so. I don't think the raven is Uber-pwnmobile,but the changes being described here would make it increasingly hard for the megathron to do anything but roll-over and die vs a raven. No it wouldn't. T2 Blasters can hit out to 30km, and the raven would be keeping you at a maximum range of 24km assuming it even has a scrambler fitted - and if not, you can leave when you like. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
Shin Mao Caldari AFC Ultima Rati0	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Faekurias Originally by: Byson1 Caldari, do already have the best ships.. ... ... ... LOL tbh. made me laugh. lewl . Nice joke Maybe good caldary boost will be grievous galente nerf. All fly awesome galente ships today that makes me mad. Dominix - no comments Myrmydon - no comments Arazu - no comments Torax - YAAAR! Vexor - Moros - OMG! ect... What the heck? And what about Caldary? All good ships we have can be used only in gangs as a support or in pve . Our ships to slow, we can't fit pvp modules, missiles not so good as used to be, and some ships have greate problems with CPU . ___________________________ Quantus tremor est futurus, quando judex est venturus, cuncta stricte discussurus!
Neener	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:26:00 - [53] Edited by: Neener on 19/06/2007 07:25:42 Originally by: tarin adur Since i'm Gallente,and a Megathron pilot,i'l refrain from doing so. I don't think the raven is Uber-pwnmobile,but the changes being described here would make it increasingly hard for the megathron to do anything but roll-over and die vs a raven. Try it. Might change your views about raven a bit (its harder than you might think). if mega gets close, you die. without scram you cant kill mega (and if youre in scram range, youre pretty much dead anyways). without web you cant kill mega (and if youre in web range, youre pretty much dead anyways). mega outputs about 2x the damage raven does, mega is faster than you, etc.. quite some problems with it We had some discussion about this in SHC and pretty much only way to reliable kill mega in 1v1 is completely forget traditional shield tank and dump your ship full of EWAR (and because ewar is chance based, thats not reliable either).
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:29:00 - [54] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos No it wouldn't. T2 Blasters can hit out to 30km, and the raven would be keeping you at a maximum range of 24km assuming it even has a scrambler fitted - and if not, you can leave when you like. At 30km T2 blasters will be doing basically no damage. To fight effectively, Gallente blaster pilots need to close to generally under 3km. But anyway, 1v1 is a stupid way to try and argue ship balance and ship-to-ship comparisons only work when it's a particularly important tactical environment (such as a fleet sniping battle).
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:34:00 - [55] Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 19/06/2007 07:33:28 Quote: At 30km T2 blasters will be doing basically no damage. To fight effectively, Gallente blaster pilots need to close to generally under 3km. Agreed, but we're discussing a bizarre raven setup as it is. Most likely the Raven would be using T2 torps, and so would want to stay closer than 24km anyway. Quote: ship-to-ship comparisons only work when it's a particularly important tactical environment (such as a fleet sniping battle). Where no matter what we change about the Raven, the Megathron would win hands down due to missile flight time. With the changes I proposed, the Megathron would also beat the Rokh (same base speed as a Raven, considerably more mass), as it can outrun it and stay under it's optimal where the Megathron's improved tracking comes into it's element. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
Neener	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:35:00 - [56] Originally by: Shin Mao All good ships we have can be used only in gangs as a support or in pve . Not exactly true. caldari has 2 awesome ships: kestrel (yay!) and crow Everything else is pretty much garbage in pvp though.
Shin Mao Caldari AFC Ultima Rati0	Posted - 2007.06.19 07:44:00 - [57] Originally by: Neener Originally by: Shin Mao All good ships we have can be used only in gangs as a support or in pve . Not exactly true. caldari has 2 awesome ships: kestrel (yay!) and crow Everything else is pretty much garbage in pvp though. Yep sorry I forgot But about everything else I absolutely agree. ___________________________ Quantus tremor est futurus, quando judex est venturus, cuncta stricte discussurus!
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.19 09:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Shin Mao Originally by: Faekurias Originally by: Byson1 Caldari, do already have the best ships.. ... ... ... LOL tbh. made me laugh. lewl . Nice joke Maybe good caldary boost will be grievous galente nerf. All fly awesome galente ships today that makes me mad. Dominix - no comments Myrmydon - no comments Arazu - no comments Torax - YAAAR! Vexor - Moros - OMG! ect... What the heck? And what about Caldary? All good ships we have can be used only in gangs as a support or in pve . Our ships to slow, we can't fit pvp modules, missiles not so good as used to be, and some ships have greate problems with CPU . /signed Maybe with the exception of the Crow, all Caldari ships are the equivalent of flying a large house. Generally useless in solo PvP and at best damage soakers in fleet engagements. Ravens have atrocious CPU, Drake is all tank and no gank... I don't think I need say any more. Light is faster than sound... this is why some people appear bright until you speak to them...
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 20:54:00 - [59] So does anyone else have an argument as to why Caldari ships shouldn't be given this ever-so-slight boost? As far as I can see, every argument against has so far been refuted... -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
Ramashek	Posted - 2007.06.19 21:33:00 - [60] i have no problems with caldari ships getting a boost, but they'd have to loose some hit points or something or it's gonna get flamed to hell and back... caldari, they have it light, they can tank like beasts in some ships, and ok, they can't fit pvp modules, but amarr have slightly more issues... IF caldari were to recieve a boost, i would recommend it was after amarr recieved their boost, then it could be evened out properly :) on a personal annoyance of balancing, you want ur caldari ships abit better... can i moan about my typhoon, which IS an armor tanker, yet has more shields than armor (this confuses me, if caldari get a boost to speed, i want my armor and shield hp flipped) :P on a note about caldari ships being slow, you again, have it easy, have you flown an apoc? i mean, damn >.< if flying caldari is like flying a house, then flying amarr is like flying an entire country



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