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Steve Holt
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 10:45:00 -
[1]
a friend of mine got skilled up for command ships but got podded and forgot to update clone. so he lost BC 5. but he can still fly his EOS and astarte without it. exsploit or not?
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2007.06.01 10:47:00 -
[2]
Not.
It's his fault he didn't have an up to date clone.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.06.01 10:49:00 -
[3]
you miss the point
He lost BC 5 but can still fly an EOS
I assume you need bc 5 to train command ships.
I would say no to the exploit
SKUNK
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.01 10:51:00 -
[4]
Thank You SkyFlyer |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.01 10:52:00 -
[5]
Hmm.
Well, it's not an exploit per say, but it's most definetly a bug.
Should report it.
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.01 10:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: ry ry on 01/06/2007 10:51:48
 Originally by: Le Skunk
you miss the point
He lost BC 5 but can still fly an EOS
I assume you need bc 5 to train command ships.
I would say no to the exploit
SKUNK
that seems to happen fairly often. possibly something to do with the skill being a pre req for training a requisite skill, rather than actually flying the ship?
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Cheval Blanc
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Posted - 2007.06.01 10:54:00 -
[7]
No exploit, because death removes the highest lvl 5 skill. And you're in 0.0?
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Lou Margoulin
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:03:00 -
[8]
yep actually it's the command ship skill that matter to fly a CS not the bc at lvl5 skill.
not a bug nor an exploit.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lou Margoulin
yep actually it's the command ship skill that matter to fly a CS not the bc at lvl5 skill.
not a bug nor an exploit.
But the requirements for a command ship still include BC-V. If he lost it, the requirements should have a big red marker on requirements on the BC skill.
So basicly all requirements arn't met.
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
But the requirements for a command ship still include BC-V. If he lost it, the requirements should have a big red marker on requirements on the BC skill.
So basicly all requirements arn't met.
The requirements are met.
The BC skills is just a prereq for starting of training commandships - and he has done that.
There has been plenty of situations like these, when they have upped skill reqs in the past. People having trained the skill with the now insufficient level on one of the prereqs are have never been affected.
Ofc you can still debate if this should be so. But as far as the game goes, he meets the requirement for the ship. He has trained the command ship skill.
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Veritas Falx
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:29:00 -
[11]
I say no because he lost those skillpoints, not like he moved them to another skill. Also he lost bonus's because tech II ships get a huge boost from the tech I skill, part of the reason they are much better because that skill is almost always at 5.
But this bug has been around of a while. With the new skills given to players at the begining of rev at creation some skills were give w/o their prereqs. Pretty sure though that you can't train skills to a higher level if you lost the prereq.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
The requirements are met.
The BC skills is just a prereq for starting of training commandships - and he has done that.
There has been plenty of situations like these, when they have upped skill reqs in the past. People having trained the skill with the now insufficient level on one of the prereqs are have never been affected.
Ofc you can still debate if this should be so. But as far as the game goes, he meets the requirement for the ship. He has trained the command ship skill.
Yes the flight requirements are met in the sense that he met the requirements for learning the skill of command ships, but i always thought that the BC skill was also needed for the flight of the ship.
Since it's in the requirements ssection of the ship info too, not just the skill info.
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Captain Thunk
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:37:00 -
[13]
Flying an Eos is like riding a bike, once you've learnt how to do it you never forget it.
Captain Thunk
See this hook?
variable speed and five alternate attatchments baby. |
Dyfed
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:39:00 -
[14]
http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ships/commandships/caldari/22470.asp
The pre reqs are (just for reference)
Command Ship I
Racial Cruiser V
Heavy assault Ships IV
Not BC V
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LancerSix
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:48:00 -
[15]
Its a bug, not an exploit. Reason I say so is this, back when I was (more of) a wee little nubbin, I was flying around in my Crow and got podded. I lost Caldari Frigs 5 and couldn't get into a new Crow. I'm assuming theres just a bug with Command Ships where it doesn't check for ALL of the prerequisites when you get in. Submit a bug report, but I highly doubt it would be classed as an exploit by a sensible GM.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dyfed
http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ships/commandships/caldari/22470.asp
The pre reqs are (just for reference)
Command Ship I
Racial Cruiser V
Heavy assault Ships IV
Not BC V
It's right there though, secondary skills required, BC-V.
This is what i mean.
And as stated above, these losses effect other ships, so why not the command ship one?
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:51:00 -
[17]
Would be a bug rather than an exploit. It doesn't give him any sort of unfair advantage (just the opposite really since he's now lost a small bonus from the bc skill) and it's not something he could control or even influence.
Best to bug report it though.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:57:00 -
[18]
To fly/use something, you only need the primary, secondary and tertiary skills.
The prereqs for training those skills are listed for convenience. You will need those skills to train the required skills, but you don't need those skills to fly/use the item.
If all is well, your friend won't be able to train up his Command Ships skill further until he regains BC V, but he can continue to use/benefit from levels in Command Ships he already has.
=AFK=
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John Hades
BlackStone Heavy Industries
Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: LancerSix
Its a bug, not an exploit. Reason I say so is this, back when I was (more of) a wee little nubbin, I was flying around in my Crow and got podded. I lost Caldari Frigs 5 and couldn't get into a new Crow. I'm assuming theres just a bug with Command Ships where it doesn't check for ALL of the prerequisites when you get in. Submit a bug report, but I highly doubt it would be classed as an exploit by a sensible GM.
Agree with this. A while back i was looking round 0.0 in a cheap frig, and rather than make the 20+ jumps back to Castle Carebear i thought i'd self destruct my pod and get there quick. Doing so lost me Caldari Industrial V (podded day before and forgot to update clone). Then found out i could no longer fly my shiny Bustard... and needing to jump in it was my reason for wanting to get back quick.
I would say your issue is a bug. Unless it has something to do with BC V being a "secondary" requirement or something? ie. You need it to train up for other skills necessary to fly the boat, but not to fly it? In my example above, Caldari Industrial V is a primary requirement. And in the above Crow example, Cald Frig V is also a primary?
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"The dumber that people think you are... the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them" |
Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.01 12:06:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 01/06/2007 12:12:44
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
And as stated above, these losses effect other ships, so why not the command ship one?
I would like to see examples of that. Because I am as close to 100% sure that it is wrong, as I can possibly be.
And no, it does not list the prereqs as a prereq for the ship. But as prereqs for the skill - an information about what you will need to train that skill.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.01 12:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
I would like to see examples of that. Because I am as close to 100% sure that it is wrong, as I can possibly be.
And no, it does not list the prereqs as a prereq for the ship. But as prereqs for the skill - an information about what you will need to train that skill.
Well if it isn't the case with other ships, it should be really.
Requisitions for a skill are listed on the skill itself. Requisitions for a ship are listed on the ship info.
This is why, i think it is infact a bug. But only a dev can tell really.
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 12:48:00 -
[22]
hey hey
Id certainly say bug or at least a weird side effect of loosing skills.
Pre req's are there beacuse they are REQUIRED.
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.01 13:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Pre req's are there beacuse they are REQUIRED.
Says who?
That is at most an opinion. And one that is in contradiction with precedence and the current state of things.
CCP have on occasion changed the required level on some prereq skills. And they have never required for you to update the prereq skill, if you had already trained the skill for which it was prereq.
Once the skill is in your head, the prereqs does not matter anymore.
Everything supports that the prereqs for the primary, secondary and tertiary skills are listed as information only - for the needed skills.
And it makes good sense. At least I hope I am not fired, once my boss finds out I have forgotten my polynomial math.
You can argue that it should not be like that - but stating things as fact, when everything points to it not being so...
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Susan Acid
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.01 13:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Trak Cranker
I would like to see examples of that. Because I am as close to 100% sure that it is wrong, as I can possibly be.
And no, it does not list the prereqs as a prereq for the ship. But as prereqs for the skill - an information about what you will need to train that skill.
Well if it isn't the case with other ships, it should be really.
Requisitions for a skill are listed on the skill itself. Requisitions for a ship are listed on the ship info.
This is why, i think it is infact a bug. But only a dev can tell really.
Check the skill book reqs for HACs.You can train for it before you have Cruiser V.
Strange.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.01 13:28:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 01/06/2007 13:28:20
Originally by: Susan Acid
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Trak Cranker
I would like to see examples of that. Because I am as close to 100% sure that it is wrong, as I can possibly be.
And no, it does not list the prereqs as a prereq for the ship. But as prereqs for the skill - an information about what you will need to train that skill.
Well if it isn't the case with other ships, it should be really.
Requisitions for a skill are listed on the skill itself. Requisitions for a ship are listed on the ship info.
This is why, i think it is infact a bug. But only a dev can tell really.
Check the skill book reqs for HACs.You can train for it before you have Cruiser V.
Strange.
 That is strange. Really...and i've seen strange things everday i wake up and go to the bathroom 
So in that case, you can train for a HAC(in other words fly it) before you can fly it for real. But in other cases, you can't train(and fly) something before you got everything trained for it
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RaTTuS
BIG
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.01 13:40:00 -
[26]
Any bonus you get from BC skills means that you only get BC 4 instead of BC 5.
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & Blog
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:20:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 01/06/2007 14:26:50
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
That is strange. Really...and i've seen strange things everday i wake up and go to the bathroom
So in that case, you can train for a HAC(in other words fly it) before you can fly it for real. But in other cases, you can't train(and fly) something before you got everything trained for it
Its a common structure in the skill requirements that the primary, secondary and tertiary skills are not interdependant for the T2 ships and "midlevel"(battle cruisers, destroyers, interdictors, interceptors) classes that does not have a race specific skill. If you train HAC up, you can potentially fly HACs for all races - if you have the race specific cruiser skills.
If they want it like that, they cant have Gallente Cruiser V, Minmatar Cruiser V and Caldari Cruiser V all be prereqs for training HAC, unless they build in some "One of these" option into the prereq system.
And even then the probably want to avoid that, if they want to apply the HAC req to a new ship type later down the line where they dont want Cruiser V to be a req, battlecruisers being a potential example(Not saying it could or should happen).
Same can be said for the skill req setup on the interdictors.
So for the specific ship they specify the specific racial Cruiser skill as a separate skill needed.
Some of the primary, secondary, tertiary constructions are bit funny though. Dreadnoughts for one, where Capital ship I is required both as a primary skill, but also to train the racial dreadnought skill it self. And Jump drive operation could also be specified as a prereq for Race Dreadnought, for all I can see - and not be a tertiary skill.
But for a lot of the ships it makes good sense.
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:29:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Pre req's are there beacuse they are REQUIRED.
Says who?
That is at most an opinion. And one that is in contradiction with precedence and the current state of things.
CCP have on occasion changed the required level on some prereq skills. And they have never required for you to update the prereq skill, if you had already trained the skill for which it was prereq.
Once the skill is in your head, the prereqs does not matter anymore.
Everything supports that the prereqs for the primary, secondary and tertiary skills are listed as information only - for the needed skills.
And it makes good sense. At least I hope I am not fired, once my boss finds out I have forgotten my polynomial math.
You can argue that it should not be like that - but stating things as fact, when everything points to it not being so...
Required: Adjective
1. Needed : Necessary or appropriate
2. Compulsory : Insisted upon or imposed as a condition
Command Ships
under PRE REQUIRED SKILLS you will see Battlecruiser V
Quote:
CCP have on occasion changed the required level on some prereq skills. And they have never required for you to update the prereq skill, if you had already trained the skill for which it was prereq.
yes CCP have often changed the pre reqs for various skills but the effect on players havce been negligible as they ofter DOWNgrade skill pre reqs. where CCP have UPgrades a skill and a player no longer has the prereqs required I have no idea because its never affected me once with any of the skill changes and any coments regarding those changes and what CCP stance on it would be conjecture.
its a total FACT that everything has a list or REQUIRED skills and afaik you cannot use a module/ship without having EVERY SKILL ticked.
Quote:
Once the skill is in your head, the prereqs does not matter anymore
have you ever though that this is bacause you cannot untrain skills or transfer sp to another skill. The Pre Reqs dont matter bacause you dont often lose the skill. Previously when you were podded all your SP down to the clone last updated was lost. this was considered way to harsh even for eve so now you only loose specific SP (not sure how its chosen) the new SISI character sheet show skil history so possibly this "bug/feature" may be addressed.
now if a player is running around in a ship without having the required skills can others do the same ? or what would happen if i pod myself over and over again to remove quite a few pre reqs and still have the ability to fly/use stuff that i no longer have the knowledge to do ?
even if i use a RL example : if i had an accident and got selective amnesia and i was no longer able to remember how to pilot a plane do you honestly think they would let me take that 747 accross the atlantic with those customers ? If i even got it off the runway.
i know me english isnt often up to spec but i come from london so what do you expect. But i totally know that the word required means i must have it.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:36:00 -
[29]
It's not an exploit or a bug
the prerequ's for the necessary skills are not required to use the item after they have been aquired, it was confirmed before I even started playing
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
its a total FACT that everything has a list or REQUIRED skills and afaik you cannot use a module/ship without having EVERY SKILL ticked.
It's not a fact, it's a (false) assumption.
You need only the top skills under each of the 'primary', 'secondary', and 'tertiary' lists to use something. All other skills are prerequisites to train the top skills in the respective lists.
=AFK=
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Savesti Kyrsst
Minmatar
White-Noise
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:40:00 -
[31]
He can still fly it, but he'll lose some of the shipbonus that comes from the BC skill.
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Savesti Kyrsst
Minmatar
White-Noise
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:40:00 -
[32]
He can still fly it, but he'll lose some of the shipbonus that comes from the BC skill.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Would be a bug rather than an exploit. It doesn't give him any sort of unfair advantage (just the opposite really since he's now lost a small bonus from the bc skill) and it's not something he could control or even influence.
Best to bug report it though.
Do you lose benefits without BC5 trained? It has been a long time since last I thought about this (so I may be very wrong) but I thought the base stats listed already had the BC5 bonuses built in because presumably you can't fly the ship without BC5 trained.
Again...I may be very wrong on that but I coulda sworn some stuff in EVE did this (base stats already applied bonuses listed because you had to have it at 5 and could not be otherwise).
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Would be a bug rather than an exploit. It doesn't give him any sort of unfair advantage (just the opposite really since he's now lost a small bonus from the bc skill) and it's not something he could control or even influence.
Best to bug report it though.
Do you lose benefits without BC5 trained? It has been a long time since last I thought about this (so I may be very wrong) but I thought the base stats listed already had the BC5 bonuses built in because presumably you can't fly the ship without BC5 trained.
Again...I may be very wrong on that but I coulda sworn some stuff in EVE did this (base stats already applied bonuses listed because you had to have it at 5 and could not be otherwise).
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:47:00 -
[35]
nope it is all applied based on current skill level, you can tell this by looking at the base stats of a ship (for instance a lvl1 industrial) and then jumping into one with only one level of industrial skill (you can see the 5% bonus to speed and cargo)
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:47:00 -
[36]
nope it is all applied based on current skill level, you can tell this by looking at the base stats of a ship (for instance a lvl1 industrial) and then jumping into one with only one level of industrial skill (you can see the 5% bonus to speed and cargo)
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
nope it is all applied based on current skill level, you can tell this by looking at the base stats of a ship (for instance a lvl1 industrial) and then jumping into one with only one level of industrial skill (you can see the 5% bonus to speed and cargo)
Actually atleast in the assault frigate resistances, they are built into the ship(info atleast) and there's no change regardles of you being in it or not.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:54:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
nope it is all applied based on current skill level, you can tell this by looking at the base stats of a ship (for instance a lvl1 industrial) and then jumping into one with only one level of industrial skill (you can see the 5% bonus to speed and cargo)
Actually atleast in the assault frigate resistances, they are built into the ship(info atleast) and there's no change regardles of you being in it or not.
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Do you lose benefits without BC5 trained? It has been a long time since last I thought about this (so I may be very wrong) but I thought the base stats listed already had the BC5 bonuses built in because presumably you can't fly the ship without BC5 trained.
Again...I may be very wrong on that but I coulda sworn some stuff in EVE did this (base stats already applied bonuses listed because you had to have it at 5 and could not be otherwise).
The ship is already listed with BC V applied. When you showinfo on the ship the details you see are with the skill bonuses pre applied because its a requirement to have the skill trained. I know this for a FACT because CCP told me so. I remember cause when i first got an af i pettitioned because the bonuses didnt apply and i was sumarily told that its already pre done because you have FRIGATE V pre trained.
the bonuses for the COMMAND ship skills dont apply untill you get in and fly the ship because they are dependent on skill level. its the same with TI ships but as they dont have pre req bonuses you have to jump in to discover what you get. I wish i could check my full pettition history so i could state this as FACT but i think you'll have to trust me :/
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:55:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 01/06/2007 14:55:08
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
nope it is all applied based on current skill level, you can tell this by looking at the base stats of a ship (for instance a lvl1 industrial) and then jumping into one with only one level of industrial skill (you can see the 5% bonus to speed and cargo)
I understand that but if a skill MUST be level 5 to fly the ship and that same skill also is the basis for bonuses to that ship I thought the bonuses were just built in. So, since presumably no one can fly a CS without BC5 then I thought the skills listed under BC5 for CS are just there as supposedly it could not be otherwise.
Again I may be wrong (almost certain something worked like this though)...just trying to sort my own ignorance here.
EDIT: I posted this without seeing the other replies.
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Leonard Darwin
Rosewood Productions
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:55:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Leonard Darwin on 01/06/2007 14:55:52
If he is still able to train Commandships, it's a bug. I'd be quite interested to know if he could, especially if he already had a level partially trained 
However, if he has the top skills to fly the commandship, there ain't nothing wrong with it (imo). The prereqs are just to train the skills needed to fly - once you've learned how to fly it, who cares.
It's like requirements to get into college. Many expect you to know certain things before you apply, but if you forget them before you enter, but after you've been accepted, they aren't going to kick you out. They reteach you the concepts you have to know for that particular concept, as I'd suspect whoever is teaching Commandships would reteach the necessary concepts from BC. So this pilot has the necessary BC knowledge to fly his ship based on his Command Ship level, but he has lost that extra edge by 'forgetting' some of the specifics taught by BC V.
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:55:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Do you lose benefits without BC5 trained? It has been a long time since last I thought about this (so I may be very wrong) but I thought the base stats listed already had the BC5 bonuses built in because presumably you can't fly the ship without BC5 trained.
Again...I may be very wrong on that but I coulda sworn some stuff in EVE did this (base stats already applied bonuses listed because you had to have it at 5 and could not be otherwise).
The ship is already listed with BC V applied. When you showinfo on the ship the details you see are with the skill bonuses pre applied because its a requirement to have the skill trained. I know this for a FACT because CCP told me so. I remember cause when i first got an af i pettitioned because the bonuses didnt apply and i was sumarily told that its already pre done because you have FRIGATE V pre trained.
the bonuses for the COMMAND ship skills dont apply untill you get in and fly the ship because they are dependent on skill level. its the same with TI ships but as they dont have pre req bonuses you have to jump in to discover what you get. I wish i could check my full pettition history so i could state this as FACT but i think you'll have to trust me :/
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:55:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 01/06/2007 14:55:08
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
nope it is all applied based on current skill level, you can tell this by looking at the base stats of a ship (for instance a lvl1 industrial) and then jumping into one with only one level of industrial skill (you can see the 5% bonus to speed and cargo)
I understand that but if a skill MUST be level 5 to fly the ship and that same skill also is the basis for bonuses to that ship I thought the bonuses were just built in. So, since presumably no one can fly a CS without BC5 then I thought the skills listed under BC5 for CS are just there as supposedly it could not be otherwise.
Again I may be wrong (almost certain something worked like this though)...just trying to sort my own ignorance here.
EDIT: I posted this without seeing the other replies.
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Leonard Darwin
Rosewood Productions
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:55:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Leonard Darwin on 01/06/2007 14:55:52
If he is still able to train Commandships, it's a bug. I'd be quite interested to know if he could, especially if he already had a level partially trained
However, if he has the top skills to fly the commandship, there ain't nothing wrong with it (imo). The prereqs are just to train the skills needed to fly - once you've learned how to fly it, who cares.
It's like requirements to get into college. Many expect you to know certain things before you apply, but if you forget them before you enter, but after you've been accepted, they aren't going to kick you out. They reteach you the concepts you have to know for that particular concept, as I'd suspect whoever is teaching Commandships would reteach the necessary concepts from BC. So this pilot has the necessary BC knowledge to fly his ship based on his Command Ship level, but he has lost that extra edge by 'forgetting' some of the specifics taught by BC V.
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:56:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Command Ships
under PRE REQUIRED SKILLS you will see Battlecruiser V
Quote:
Yeah - to learn it. Not to apply it. For all we know.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
its a total FACT that everything has a list or REQUIRED skills and afaik you cannot use a module/ship without having EVERY SKILL ticked.
Quote:
Thats true. You are just way to encompassing in defining required skills for a specific item.
Prereqs for a skill you need to operate an item, are just prereqs to learn it. Not to apply it. For all we know.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Quote:
Once the skill is in your head, the prereqs does not matter anymore
have you ever though that this is bacause you cannot untrain skills or transfer sp to another skill. The Pre Reqs dont matter bacause you dont often lose the skill. Previously when you were podded all your SP down to the clone last updated was lost.
this was considered way to harsh even for eve so now you only loose specific SP (not sure how its chosen) the new SISI character sheet show skil history so possibly this "bug/feature" may be addressed.
Your "previously" must be a quite a long time ago. And its not conjecture and does not require a stance from CCP, when I say they have never required people to learn the prereqs now insufficient, when they upped the requirements on some skills - if you allready had the skill trained. That they have downgraded more often or not is irrelevant to that.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
now if a player is running around in a ship without having the required skills can others do the same ?
You can't fly a ship without the required skills.
That the skills required to _learn_ those skills are no longer up to date is another matter.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
or what would happen if i pod myself over and over again to remove quite a few pre reqs and still have the ability to fly/use stuff that i no longer have the knowledge to do ?
See above. You can't fly ships without the required skills. If you have the knowledge of Command Ships, it does not matter that you have forgotten how to be a battlecruiser pilot.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
even if i use a RL example : if i had an accident and got selective amnesia and i was no longer able to remember how to pilot a plane do you honestly think they would let me take that 747 accross the atlantic with those customers ?
Bad analogy.
They might let you, if all you forgot, was how to do the math that gave you the grade to get into pilot school. Or even if you could no longer fly a Cessna - but cleared any test in the 747.
You still know how to fly that plane.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
i know me english isnt often up to spec but i come from london so what do you expect. But i totally know that the word required means i must have it.
And where does it state that you need BC V to fly a command ship? It doesn't. It says you need Command Ships I.
It does not say Secondary Skill_s_ required over Command Ships I. It says Secondary Skill required. The stuff below Command Ships 1 is just to show you how to get there. For all we know.
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 14:56:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Command Ships
under PRE REQUIRED SKILLS you will see Battlecruiser V
Quote:
Yeah - to learn it. Not to apply it. For all we know.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
its a total FACT that everything has a list or REQUIRED skills and afaik you cannot use a module/ship without having EVERY SKILL ticked.
Quote:
Thats true. You are just way to encompassing in defining required skills for a specific item.
Prereqs for a skill you need to operate an item, are just prereqs to learn it. Not to apply it. For all we know.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
Quote:
Once the skill is in your head, the prereqs does not matter anymore
have you ever though that this is bacause you cannot untrain skills or transfer sp to another skill. The Pre Reqs dont matter bacause you dont often lose the skill. Previously when you were podded all your SP down to the clone last updated was lost.
this was considered way to harsh even for eve so now you only loose specific SP (not sure how its chosen) the new SISI character sheet show skil history so possibly this "bug/feature" may be addressed.
Your "previously" must be a quite a long time ago. And its not conjecture and does not require a stance from CCP, when I say they have never required people to learn the prereqs now insufficient, when they upped the requirements on some skills - if you allready had the skill trained. That they have downgraded more often or not is irrelevant to that.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
now if a player is running around in a ship without having the required skills can others do the same ?
You can't fly a ship without the required skills.
That the skills required to _learn_ those skills are no longer up to date is another matter.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
or what would happen if i pod myself over and over again to remove quite a few pre reqs and still have the ability to fly/use stuff that i no longer have the knowledge to do ?
See above. You can't fly ships without the required skills. If you have the knowledge of Command Ships, it does not matter that you have forgotten how to be a battlecruiser pilot.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
even if i use a RL example : if i had an accident and got selective amnesia and i was no longer able to remember how to pilot a plane do you honestly think they would let me take that 747 accross the atlantic with those customers ?
Bad analogy.
They might let you, if all you forgot, was how to do the math that gave you the grade to get into pilot school. Or even if you could no longer fly a Cessna - but cleared any test in the 747.
You still know how to fly that plane.
Originally by: Mikal Drey
i know me english isnt often up to spec but i come from london so what do you expect. But i totally know that the word required means i must have it.
And where does it state that you need BC V to fly a command ship? It doesn't. It says you need Command Ships I.
It does not say Secondary Skill_s_ required over Command Ships I. It says Secondary Skill required. The stuff below Command Ships 1 is just to show you how to get there. For all we know.
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 15:26:00 -
[47]
Quote:
You can't fly a ship without the required skills.
That the skills required to _learn_ those skills are no longer up to date is another matt
you said it yourself YOU CANT FLY THE SHIP. its the OP's issue that he no longer has the required skills
Quote:
And where does it state that you need BC V to fly a command ship? It doesn't. It says you need Command Ships I.
It does not say Secondary Skill_s_ required over Command Ships I. It says Secondary Skill required. The stuff below Command Ships 1 is just to show you how to get there. For all we know
Claymore : Battlecruiser-class vessels, designed to aid their allies on the battlefield.
Quote:
See above. You can't fly ships without the required skills. If you have the knowledge of Command Ships, it does not matter that you have forgotten how to be a battlecruiser pilot.
I would totally say you need to fly a BC for a BC classed ship and if you check the skill REQUIREMENT for a claymore you will se along long list of REQUIRED skills. BC V is there.
as to the analogy its actually pretty to the point. If you had no knowledge of how to fly a 747 you would not be able to fly it. regardless of wether or not you had a certificate previously. You would be up in the sky looking at alot of knobs and dials praying to jeebus that someone hit the AP. If you have lost or forgotten the knowledge then you cant do it.
If CCP comes out and states that the required skills listed under items/skills/ships are just for guidance and you dont actually need then imagine the problems its gonna cause. Not only that. if someone is running around in a ship with the same skills as others who cant fly it then thats also gonna be a problem. I certainly would love to pettition for some of my SP/skills to be removed because i dont need the Skill anymore and i only trained it because i needed it as a pre req.
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:26:00 -
[48]
Quote:
You can't fly a ship without the required skills.
That the skills required to _learn_ those skills are no longer up to date is another matt
you said it yourself YOU CANT FLY THE SHIP. its the OP's issue that he no longer has the required skills
Quote:
And where does it state that you need BC V to fly a command ship? It doesn't. It says you need Command Ships I.
It does not say Secondary Skill_s_ required over Command Ships I. It says Secondary Skill required. The stuff below Command Ships 1 is just to show you how to get there. For all we know
Claymore : Battlecruiser-class vessels, designed to aid their allies on the battlefield.
Quote:
See above. You can't fly ships without the required skills. If you have the knowledge of Command Ships, it does not matter that you have forgotten how to be a battlecruiser pilot.
I would totally say you need to fly a BC for a BC classed ship and if you check the skill REQUIREMENT for a claymore you will se along long list of REQUIRED skills. BC V is there.
as to the analogy its actually pretty to the point. If you had no knowledge of how to fly a 747 you would not be able to fly it. regardless of wether or not you had a certificate previously. You would be up in the sky looking at alot of knobs and dials praying to jeebus that someone hit the AP. If you have lost or forgotten the knowledge then you cant do it.
If CCP comes out and states that the required skills listed under items/skills/ships are just for guidance and you dont actually need then imagine the problems its gonna cause. Not only that. if someone is running around in a ship with the same skills as others who cant fly it then thats also gonna be a problem. I certainly would love to pettition for some of my SP/skills to be removed because i dont need the Skill anymore and i only trained it because i needed it as a pre req.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:30:00 -
[49]
Actually you are wrong, the claymore REQUIRES
Cruiser 5
Command Ships 1
and
Logistics 4
all other listed skills are prerquisites for TRAINING those skills, not necessary to fly the ship
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:30:00 -
[50]
Actually you are wrong, the claymore REQUIRES
Cruiser 5
Command Ships 1
and
Logistics 4
all other listed skills are prerquisites for TRAINING those skills, not necessary to fly the ship
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:34:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
Actually you are wrong, the claymore REQUIRES
Cruiser 5
Command Ships 1
and
Logistics 4
all other listed skills are prerquisites for TRAINING those skills, not necessary to fly the ship
No...as said before...the prequisites for training a skill are in the skillbook info, the prequisites for flying a ship are in the ship info.
A ship needs ALL, primary and secondary(and the third thingy), skills to fly.
Otherwise you could have learned the command ship, then you wouldn't care which level 5 skills you lose. Heck, you could lose all of them and still be able to fly it.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:34:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
Actually you are wrong, the claymore REQUIRES
Cruiser 5
Command Ships 1
and
Logistics 4
all other listed skills are prerquisites for TRAINING those skills, not necessary to fly the ship
No...as said before...the prequisites for training a skill are in the skillbook info, the prequisites for flying a ship are in the ship info.
A ship needs ALL, primary and secondary(and the third thingy), skills to fly.
Otherwise you could have learned the command ship, then you wouldn't care which level 5 skills you lose. Heck, you could lose all of them and still be able to fly it.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:35:00 -
[53]
you can say what you like, the simple fact is you can fly the ship with just those three skills, if you lose the others due to being podded
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:35:00 -
[54]
you can say what you like, the simple fact is you can fly the ship with just those three skills, if you lose the others due to being podded
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
|
Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:38:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
Actually you are wrong, the claymore REQUIRES
Cruiser 5
Command Ships 1
and
Logistics 4
all other listed skills are prerquisites for TRAINING those skills, not necessary to fly the ship
You need EVERY skill listed under the required skill list. Signature analysis V is also required to fly the ship. you are not supposed to be able to fly a ship without EVERY box ticked. this goes for every item/mod/ship ingame. unless you have a full green list of ticks then you cannot use/fly it.
Train up an alt with just those skills and try it.
|
Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:38:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
Actually you are wrong, the claymore REQUIRES
Cruiser 5
Command Ships 1
and
Logistics 4
all other listed skills are prerquisites for TRAINING those skills, not necessary to fly the ship
You need EVERY skill listed under the required skill list. Signature analysis V is also required to fly the ship. you are not supposed to be able to fly a ship without EVERY box ticked. this goes for every item/mod/ship ingame. unless you have a full green list of ticks then you cannot use/fly it.
Train up an alt with just those skills and try it.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:41:00 -
[57]
SA V is required to get logistics  
the only way you can GET all those skills is to have the rest, the only way to have less is to lose sp to being podded
if you lose the sp and lose one or more of the subskills you do not lose use of any of those 3 and can still fly the ship
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 15:41:00 -
[58]
SA V is required to get logistics
the only way you can GET all those skills is to have the rest, the only way to have less is to lose sp to being podded
if you lose the sp and lose one or more of the subskills you do not lose use of any of those 3 and can still fly the ship
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
|
Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:01:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
SA V is required to get logistics
the only way you can GET all those skills is to have the rest, the only way to have less is to lose sp to being podded
if you lose the sp and lose one or more of the subskills you do not lose use of any of those 3 and can still fly the ship
okies. i'll go with that logic. And also ask WHY ?
The OP has stated just like you have that he no longer has a pre required skill and therefore is confused why he still has the ability to fly the shp. IF the pre reuisits arent actually required to fly the ship doesnt this negate actually training them in the first place ?
It also doenst really matter how it happened he no longer has skills required that are listed as a requirement. If a player is running around flying a ship that others have but he doesnt have the equivilant skills then surely we have a conflict of rules/ gameplay etc. i would certainly have an issue if someone had less skills to fly a ship than i needed. EVERY box is supposed to be ticked when you undock and be the same for everyone and not because of a bug/feature. also isnt the whole idea of having an upto date clone to prevent the loss of SP and therfore the ability to use stuff ?
ive seen no oficial stance anywhere on this and ive had corpmates get podded and loose the ability to fly their TII ships.
as usual with this game theres no real clarity. maybe the new character sheet on SISI is to address this Question.
|
Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
SA V is required to get logistics
the only way you can GET all those skills is to have the rest, the only way to have less is to lose sp to being podded
if you lose the sp and lose one or more of the subskills you do not lose use of any of those 3 and can still fly the ship
okies. i'll go with that logic. And also ask WHY ?
The OP has stated just like you have that he no longer has a pre required skill and therefore is confused why he still has the ability to fly the shp. IF the pre reuisits arent actually required to fly the ship doesnt this negate actually training them in the first place ?
It also doenst really matter how it happened he no longer has skills required that are listed as a requirement. If a player is running around flying a ship that others have but he doesnt have the equivilant skills then surely we have a conflict of rules/ gameplay etc. i would certainly have an issue if someone had less skills to fly a ship than i needed. EVERY box is supposed to be ticked when you undock and be the same for everyone and not because of a bug/feature. also isnt the whole idea of having an upto date clone to prevent the loss of SP and therfore the ability to use stuff ?
ive seen no oficial stance anywhere on this and ive had corpmates get podded and loose the ability to fly their TII ships.
as usual with this game theres no real clarity. maybe the new character sheet on SISI is to address this Question.
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Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:05:00 -
[61]
I'm going to make a dreaded real-life analogy.
If you're a pilot, and you learn to fly single prop planes, small jets, medium jets, large props, and finally commuter jets, and along the course of the way you get a little rusty on how to fly a medium jet, it doesnt mean you don't remember how to fly your every day big 747.
To all you pilots out there, no I have no idea what the normal progression is for flying airplanes, and I don't care.
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Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:05:00 -
[62]
I'm going to make a dreaded real-life analogy.
If you're a pilot, and you learn to fly single prop planes, small jets, medium jets, large props, and finally commuter jets, and along the course of the way you get a little rusty on how to fly a medium jet, it doesnt mean you don't remember how to fly your every day big 747.
To all you pilots out there, no I have no idea what the normal progression is for flying airplanes, and I don't care.
Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:14:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 01/06/2007 16:13:47
Originally by: Wylker
I'm going to make a dreaded real-life analogy.
If you're a pilot, and you learn to fly single prop planes, small jets, medium jets, large props, and finally commuter jets, and along the course of the way you get a little rusty on how to fly a medium jet, it doesnt mean you don't remember how to fly your every day big 747.
To all you pilots out there, no I have no idea what the normal progression is for flying airplanes, and I don't care.
To take this analogy, we have to take it a bit further to compensate on what loosing skill means.
You learn to fly a small jet, that skill includes the basic controls, how to use a rudder, how to steer and so forth.
Now you learn all the things needed in that area to perfection so you can learn the big 747.
Now you bump your head and LOOSE memory of how that lil jet worked. LEt's say, how to compensate for turbulance with the thingymadoo.
Now you can't fly the 747 because noone would let that unqualified pilot to do so.
There
Loosing an uncloned body means you loose memories, actual learned stuff, that were needed to pilot the bigger ship.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:14:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 01/06/2007 16:13:47
Originally by: Wylker
I'm going to make a dreaded real-life analogy.
If you're a pilot, and you learn to fly single prop planes, small jets, medium jets, large props, and finally commuter jets, and along the course of the way you get a little rusty on how to fly a medium jet, it doesnt mean you don't remember how to fly your every day big 747.
To all you pilots out there, no I have no idea what the normal progression is for flying airplanes, and I don't care.
To take this analogy, we have to take it a bit further to compensate on what loosing skill means.
You learn to fly a small jet, that skill includes the basic controls, how to use a rudder, how to steer and so forth.
Now you learn all the things needed in that area to perfection so you can learn the big 747.
Now you bump your head and LOOSE memory of how that lil jet worked. LEt's say, how to compensate for turbulance with the thingymadoo.
Now you can't fly the 747 because noone would let that unqualified pilot to do so.
There
Loosing an uncloned body means you loose memories, actual learned stuff, that were needed to pilot the bigger ship.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:16:00 -
[65]
untrue sheriff, how to deal with turbulence is DIRECTLY proportional in the size of plane, I may only be an amateur pilot but I can state unequivicolly that even though I havent flown a glider in years, and no longer am qualified, they wont be taking my pilots liscence away
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:16:00 -
[66]
untrue sheriff, how to deal with turbulence is DIRECTLY proportional in the size of plane, I may only be an amateur pilot but I can state unequivicolly that even though I havent flown a glider in years, and no longer am qualified, they wont be taking my pilots liscence away
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
|
Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:19:00 -
[67]
Not to mention he didn't lose ALL of his battlecruiser skills, he just lost a portion (2 weeks worth or so usually) of BC V.
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Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 16:19:00 -
[68]
Not to mention he didn't lose ALL of his battlecruiser skills, he just lost a portion (2 weeks worth or so usually) of BC V.
Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 17:06:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
IF the pre reuisits arent actually required to fly the ship doesnt this negate actually training them in the first place ?
I've explained this twice already in this thread and others have also explained.
Read more, post less. (Or maybe you just don't want to understand how it works?)
=AFK=
|
Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
|
Posted - 2007.06.01 17:06:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
IF the pre reuisits arent actually required to fly the ship doesnt this negate actually training them in the first place ?
I've explained this twice already in this thread and others have also explained.
Read more, post less. (Or maybe you just don't want to understand how it works?)
=AFK=
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.06.02 10:53:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 02/06/2007 10:52:18
Or maybe it works as "not intended".
You took my plane analogy a bit too technically tortun, what was meant by it is:
When you lose a clone like that, it means memories are actually erased. It's like he was trying to fly a command ship without remembering his level V training of BC's which trained him where the interstellar break is. The level V BC skill is needed to operate the command ship.
It's alos listed as a secondary skill requirement for the ship, in the ship info. How much clearer could it be? It's a skill NEEDED to operate command ships. Now it's a bug.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.06.02 10:53:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 02/06/2007 10:52:18
Or maybe it works as "not intended".
You took my plane analogy a bit too technically tortun, what was meant by it is:
When you lose a clone like that, it means memories are actually erased. It's like he was trying to fly a command ship without remembering his level V training of BC's which trained him where the interstellar break is. The level V BC skill is needed to operate the command ship.
It's alos listed as a secondary skill requirement for the ship, in the ship info. How much clearer could it be? It's a skill NEEDED to operate command ships. Now it's a bug.
|
Michayel Lyon
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2007.06.02 11:32:00 -
[73]
The skill(s) needed to fly a ship is the primary (and secondary and tertiary if applicable). Anything you need to train before being able to train these skills are irrevelant once you've trained the primary, secondary and tertiary.
However, whenever you want to train a skill, this skill's primary (and secondary and tertiary) must meet the skill's pre-reqs.
This means that if you've trained the skills to fly a command ship (including, say, Command Ships III), and then get podded and lose Battlecruisers V, you can still fly your command ship. However, you wont be able to train Command Ships up to IV until you have trained up Battlecruisers V again.
And for those that feel that it should be an exploit or bug to be able to fly a command ship without Battlecruisers V, remember that if they got into a command ship, they must have trained Battlecruisers V in the past.
---
Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied?
Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions
GM Xamother: "Beeing online is not considered harassment or exploit." |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.06.02 11:42:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 02/06/2007 11:41:53
Originally by: Michayel Lyon
This means that if you've trained the skills to fly a command ship (including, say, Command Ships III), and then get podded and lose Battlecruisers V, you can still fly your command ship. However, you wont be able to train Command Ships up to IV until you have trained up Battlecruisers V again.
Ok now THAT makes more sense. Thank joos
Though, i would say change it so if you loose a skill down the tree, you have to retrain it to use the stuff again. No mercy 
|
Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
|
Posted - 2007.06.02 12:38:00 -
[75]
From a purely logical viewpoint, it's an assumption either way. Whether you think it should or should not make a difference, you are still assuming something.
Given that, it appears to be a question that only CCP can answer definatively. Older players may be able to give the perspective of past precedents, but that is still an assumption based on circumstantial evidence. That is, unless it's written down somewhere.
So imo, I think we should argue about whether the Flying Speghetti Monster wears robes or not and the OP should petition for an answer. That would at least be more entertaining for me and probably more informative for him.
-------------------
Say What? |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2007.06.02 12:47:00 -
[76]
@ OP:
This is not an exploit, it is not a bug.
A pre-requirement is not a requirement. Your friend fill all requirements needed to fly the Command Ship, but the skill does not fill all requirements to be trained. This is the difference.
This effect has been known a long, long, time in the game.
For example: When the training requirements were changed on the Torpedos a long time ago, the devs explicitly stated that using Torps even though you didn't have Heavy Missiles 3 was not an exploit. It was also explicitly stated that being unable to train Torpedo skill any further until the new requirements were met, was not a bug.
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EVE is sick. |
Victor Ivanov
Minmatar
Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.06.02 13:05:00 -
[77]
Just want to reiterate that it is entirely factual that you require only the highest tier skills for any module, ship or thing in game.
For example, I have Medium Autocannon and Artillery spec lvl 4, but I've never trained up Medium Projectile to lvl 5. As far as I recall, back in the days, you only needed to train Med. Projectile lvl 4, so I got lucky. That, or I got podded sometime and I don't remember. Whichever.
Point is: I can still use t2 medium guns, even though there is a great big red x in the pre- requisites.
Not an exploit, not a bug. Just the way the game mechanics work.
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