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Zrakor, any news on the promised tools for low-sec mission runners?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.02 15:11:00 - [1] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 02/06/2007 15:09:43 Not needed mate. I appreciate your concern and desire to put mission probing out of business; however, the odds are well stacked in the mission runners favor. Even with excellent covops skills busting a deadspace mission is a needle in a haystack with a very low pecentage of finding the mission runner before the mission completes. Drone use slightly increases the probability of a hit. The success rate varies but the numbers 1-2% chance of a hit per scan seem about right. Mission runners have the advantage of seeing local, a scanner that can clue one in to trouble, and the ability to maneuver far enough off your mission gate that even if bounced leaves plenty of time/distance to get out. Why not just come out and say that you would like to be safe everywhere EXCEPT when YOU choose....as in: "if enough people are around to do some PvP I do PvP and am not running missions." "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.02 17:19:00 - [2] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 02/06/2007 17:22:18 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 02/06/2007 17:18:53 Propaganda-no. And please don't base figures on what I indicated were educated guesses. Again...why not just come out and say you don't want pirates or any uninvited combat at all leaving you free to pile up your CNR's? You have your cloak nerf...what else would you like? Oh...and lazy ganktards don't find mission runners. It requires-as should be obvious-pretty top notch skills to do it. And quite a bit of work and patience. Never mind.....pointless discussion. Carry on with your nerf request thread. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.02 19:10:00 - [3] Originally by: Toria Nynys Snippy....the important bit: All I know is I've been probed out of a mission, and judging by reports of others it's not just possible it's CERTAIN you'll be probed and possibly ganked long before you pay for a capable L4-L5 runner. And you were busted out of a mission HOW many times? Once? Out of how many hundreds of missions? I'm sorry...you'll have to justify a lot harder to make it even more difficult to part you from your cherished faction whatever . Actually...I'd just as soon ransom you--selling faction stuff is a royal pain . Oh...and what happened to "don't fly it if you cannot afford (or bear) to lose it"? . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.03 10:39:00 - [4] Venkel....I don't have a problem with mission runners at all. You do what you do, I do what I do, and we both enjoy the game in different ways. What I have an issue with here is the OP making being busted out of a mission some kind of rampant balance issue when the reality is a mission runner in losec is FAR more likely to be blown by a large gatecamp in transit than by any covert ship. As the OP says "I got probed out of a mission".....big deal..he got busted once out of hundreds of missions . And it bears repeating: Mission runners have scanners, local, and the ability to move far enough away from the warp-in point to give a nice distance cushion. Of course there is the CTL-Q option...but I live for aggro CTL-Q moments . This game is designed the way it is for a reason. If you don't want the reward without any risk (especially in losec--which is MY house thanks) you may be playing the wrong game . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.04 14:34:00 - [5] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 04/06/2007 14:42:54 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 04/06/2007 14:35:49 I was going to refrain from further comment but spotted your cordial reply. By way of answer I'll give you a little insight into a pirate op (just a taste...can't give away the show for free...and bear in mind that Veto pilots can be considered reasonably "pro" at what they do): Last night 4-5 Veto pilots went out hunting. Small gang of 4-5 including an inty, EWAR ship, T2 fitted cruiser, assault frig and covops support. Nothing overwhelming. In the course of close to 100 jumps in total we came across multiple potential targets (both ratting and mission running as well as hostiles), ducked a couple of strong pirate gate camps (not our style ), and missed a couple of belt kills on a BS and cruiser from slight mistiming. There were also a few mission runners probed for along the way but not found. Bear in mind that each attempted mission probe can take up to 20 minutes depending on bloodlust/patience levels . Theres other things as well but I digress from my point/answer. Out of our kills one we located in a complex and 3 were broken out of missions. Complex target excepted all 3 mission runners were deep in the missions-2 were 2 gates in and 1 4 gates in ). Keeping in mind that each one of these required 20 minutes plus EACH just for detection and accurate probing....but we all spent ages within close range scanner reach of the target as we crossed deadspace between gates. All probed targets were offered ransom terms. Two chose to logoff resulting in destruction of ship and pod (logging with aggro is BAD folks....ctl-Q only guarantees you implant and clone destruction...so STOP DOING IT ) and one simply refused and smacked...resulting again in loss of ship and pod. Just FYI only one of the pilots had mission rat aggro and that from something small. The other two were in the salvage stage and not actively engaging anything aside from the cargo scoops. I think you see where I am coming from here. Three busted missions took roughly 30-50 minutes each from initial jump-in by scout to target engagement and easing of criminal countdown. ALL 4 targets including the complex pilot had loads of time to check the scanner for a probe or even worse the 4 ships coming within .5AU. And I'll tell you--its not so much the isk but the stalk that is the fun bit. Not many have the patience for it-and fewer still are good enough skill and experience wise to pull this stuff off. In this case--I will say again that the overall issue is well overblown. Mission busting is highly specialised and the odds are NOT in the pirates favor-remotely. The risk is the price you folks pay for the higher rewards of losec mission running. And hey---you can come to my house anytime you like (losec) where I am banned from your relatively safe hisec spaces . EDIT--Darwin goes both ways mate...space is littered with the wrecks of wannabe mision busters who fling probes at random into the system and invariably end up warping to a POS "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Toria Nynys Edited by: Toria Nynys on 05/06/2007 17:22:32 Rule, your counter example proves my point. Half-heartedly having fun RP-pvping you managed to get a few mission ganks. You're completely not optimized to running ganking as your main business! Snipped all the rubbish metagaming stuff that we don't do, innuendo regarding alt usage, and false assumptions To address your incorrect assumption worth replying to-I don't play half-hearted. I play to win-you play not to lose. I did not "manage" to get mission ganks--each was carefully evaluated prior to search and engagement. Oh...and as a general note...when you you folks learn that ctl-q is lame and rather than a ransom opportunity you wind up with a blown ship and destroyed implants . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.06 01:15:00 - [7] Ransom is always worth it and is usually the main objective. Why blow a ship and set off threads like this when we can send you on your merry way at a reasonable cost? And the good pirate corps (Veto being one) always honor the ransom. As for the other fella: Epeen? Don't know what that is mate. I'm playing for fun-not to impress anyone with my collection of pixels. And a killboard is just a measuring stick bearing in mind ransoms and final blows by rats don't get reported officially. And the ctl-q comment was not aimed at anyone specifically. As I mentioned two of the three mission runners encountered that evening ctl-q'd in passing. Nothing brings out bloodlust like a logoffski....especially with a covert on the case . A Hulk pilot found that out last night for the loss of .5 billion+whatever implants. Don't do it! "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:12:00 - [8] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 06/06/2007 11:12:34 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 06/06/2007 10:21:41 Originally by: rules Last night 4-5 Veto pilots went out hunting. Small gang of 4-5 including an inty, EWAR ship, T2 fitted cruiser, assault frig and covops support. Nothing overwhelming. While I do apreciate what you write here, and you guy really are not the real problem but the ones more or less persecuting mission runners, setting up shop in a mission system, getting all the good BMs and then having a very easy time probing until noone runs missions there anymore, this does point out one problem. That gang above IS overwhelming against any mission BS, mainly because of the EWAR. And that is what irks many mission runners, there really is almost zero risk for the pirate gang that enters a mission. (Mission runners usually have better things to do than to set up boring gatecamp-esque traps in missions...) This is also another imbalance between pirate and anti-pirate mission runners. When you are busy trying to catch us, we are doing our usual ingame activity and are open to your attacks. When we are trying to catch you, you cycle safespots and/or sit in station doing out of game stuff (or playing on another account), and are impervious to our attacks. Le sigh....sort of. I'm beginning to get the picture here. As in a certain popular losec mission running system subject to frequent outbreaks of smartbombing? . As I mentioned earlier-not our style....and you have a far greater chance of losing your pimped CNR to a gatecamp then you ever will running missions. Of course if somone is making a full time living busting safe spots my suggestion is as you say...set a trap...Darwins Blade . Now to the highlighted bits. There is ALWAYS risk for any pirate gang. Don't forget we actually have to travel to whatever system you in subject to attack at any time along the way. We are-after all-hoping to make a nice profit and getting killed by drawing aggro from your level 4 mission is not profit-enhancing. Neither is getting popped by the "client". So yes-using EWAR lets us punch above our wieght when needed...and gives that cushion allowing us to discuss terms before your tank breaks to the rats! As to your other point..jumping safes is simple smart gameplay especially when we are forced to sit in a system waiting out an aggro timer subject to probing ourselves. And I know me and the folks I fly with are full time pirates. If I am logged in...I'm yarring with the rare alt shopping trip as needed. And-just out of curiosity regarding that statement-how many of you are 0.0 alliance members who not only get to rat away in your space but CJ back to empire for a bit of mission running when things are quiet (or POS warfare is ongoing? You folks don't get to have cake AND cookies..get over it . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.12 23:40:00 - [9] Originally by: CCP Zrakor Edited by: CCP Zrakor on 12/06/2007 21:19:14 I don't remember ever promising tools against being probed, but I do remember talking about the implementation of tools to help people police a low sec system, such as additional bounty hunter tools. I can't give any promises on that front as I'm not even the designer in charge of implementing such tools, but I have heard talk inside Game Design for a long time about improving 'anti-pirate' viability, basically making it easier to protect PVEers, traders and the like in low sec. Which is what low sec was always meant to be, it was meant to be policed by the players while High Sec is policed by CONCORD NPC ships. And to an extent that is what it is today, but personally I would like to see an improvement there, it should at least be easier for the player police force to find the pirates and fight them, currently that is a bit of a hassle in my oppinion, which reduces the amount of people who are willing to take part in that profession. There are design suggestions in place for this inhouse, the question is just when they will be implemented. I am not aware of any specific tools or improvements being implemented in this patch to boost 'anti-pirates' in low sec, but I will raise the issue again within Game Design. Cheers for the clarification. Care to elaborate on the bold bit? Forewarned is forearmed . And thank you for refraining from providing further cake and cookies to 0.0 alliance alts . Keep up the good work. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.12 23:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Hasak Rain I didn't read this whole thread...... I am not giving some garbage players free runs at my ships when I am forced into using PvE setups to do missions. Hell, I lose enough BSs as it is in the missions. Maybe you should have read the whole thread. Care to define "garbage players"? Oh...perhaps you meant "garbage BS pilots" . Thank you for contributing zero to a pretty reasonable discussion "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.13 00:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Galk Summary-I want to play a game where risk-v-reward is meaningless. What exactly is a PK? Are we playing the same game? And your ideas sound great to me. Tell you what...maybe if CCP implements your awesome plan at the same time they will remove static bubbles and 'dictors from the game too. That way anyone who wants to can go trucking around alliance-held space at will without worrying about getting bagged by the 50-man 0.0-Empire chokepoint blobs...yeah baby....hows that sound? And give sec hits for kills in 0.0. Even better....CCP can give you your very own special private candyland unicorn server too---filled with lollipops and rainbows and all the joys of virtual wealth creation that YOU CAN NEVER EVER LOSE. Bleah Play the game as it stands. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.13 17:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Shameless Avenger Originally by: RuleoftheBone What exactly is a PK? Are we playing the same game? A PK is a pvpier. The term apears multiple times on The Noob Comic. Several examples explain why players don't go npcing (aka ratting) on areas full of PKs (aka pvpiers). Here is an example of a PK trying to gank somebody. Ummm...thanks. Feel free to stay in high sec...low sec is for those who appreciate the phrase "only the good die young" . Oh by the way....I lump it all under combat operations personally. These twee little terms like "PvP" and "PK" just sound....bent . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.14 09:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Toria Nynys The discussion of why lowsec is a stinking pit unsuitable for anyone except prats and prat wannabees has been rehashed a billion times. Again with the insults. Do I call you a mission-running alliance isk prostitute? Nope. I only think of you as prey . And losec exists not only as a buffer between 0.0 and "safeish" Empire highsec...it provides an option for those players who are not remotely interested in alliance shennanigans (as in endless camping of 0.0 chokepoints excluding other non-alliance players from entering). It would be enlightening to discover whose alt you actually are . In the meantime perhaps attempt to discuss things more rationally without spouting drivel. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.14 09:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Herring Quick question - is it really that easy to scan out mission runners? Because from my experience in running them in 0.0, either we have really lazy pirates up there, or they can never find me...and they are trying to kill me, I can tell from all the flashing red from when I enter/exit station. When I myself search for wrecks/ships/drones using exploration probes, it takes for freaking ever and all I ever find is the drones. Are the pvp probes really that superior? I'd take answers from either side really or both. Howdy, Nice post. I'll give you a shortish answer as I believe I detailed your question earlier in the thread: First there are no such thing as "PvP" probes. You have your exploration probes with a very high signal acquisition capability with slow scan times versus ship probes ("PvP" probes as you call them) with a relatively low signal acquisition capability and fast scan times. NOTE--skills only reduce the scan time and hit distance deviation..the possibility of actually finding anything with ship probes is some low percentage-based number per attempted scan. With me so far? Cool . I honestly think some of the concern voiced by mission runners is confusion over safe-spot busting and mission busting. A good covops can bust you out of a safe pretty damn quick (you are not concealed by deadspace there...and the times are FAST...how fast you can find out for yourself as this is where skill is key). Mission probing is far more difficult due to deadspace. Drone use by the mission runner appears to increase the chance of a hit; however, the covops pilot must be able to determine that drones spotted on a probe actually belong to the ship being hunted in it's mission (good camera scanner skills needed here). The only reason of an increased scan hit with drones out is the ability to select drones as a scan option along wth ships--BUT--drones appear to be subject to the same chance-based percentage per scan. I see I lied and gave a longer answer. In short using recon launcher/ship probes-v-scan probe launcher/exploration probes is scan time-v-signal strength abilities respectively. Yes...I do a lot of testing . Hope this answered your question. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the ** out of my way" General George Patton USA

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