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Cargo protection? Please add. CCP Why isn't scanning a hostile action?

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Herring Pimpology Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.06.03 12:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Nyabi Cargo Rigs perhaps? Meaning something to screw up the chance of scanning to happen. Whatever skill used for cargo scanning changed to increase the chance of penetrating said rig. Just offering an idea because I see this in your view as well. That's a good idea, but I still think a lowslot for freighters is also needed snip Don't troll -Eldo
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.03 14:05:00 - [32] Ppl shouldn't be able to fly Freighters unless they're in a corp so you can wardec them. Something political about "Concord does not allow unregistered freighters to fly about in highsec." I know what Nanobotter is about, he wants to be able to fly around afk in his freighter making trade runs, buy 300m worth of stuff here, sell it for 400m there. He wants to be able to make money while watching The Simpsons.
Syris Anu Evolutionary Pressure	Posted - 2007.06.03 14:37:00 - [33] LIke probes, scanning should be a standard ship feature requiring no mods. It would make PvP a lot more of a mind game than it is because currently you have no idea what the other ships are fitted like before and, to some extend during, engagement. If you knew and they knew, it would become quite interesting tactically as each side would have to adjust their attack and defend style to best exploit the weaknesses of the other group's fittings. As for cargo scanning specifically, a modification that prevent cargo scanning would be interesting. However, anyone that had protected cargo would be a high priority target. Multiple haulers all with cargo shielding could serve as decoys, though.
Detrol Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.03 14:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Syris Anu As for cargo scanning specifically, a modification that prevent cargo scanning would be interesting. However, anyone that had protected cargo would be a high priority target. Multiple haulers all with cargo shielding could serve as decoys, though. It already exists and is called a container.
Detrol Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.03 14:48:00 - [35] Originally by: Cipher7 Ppl shouldn't be able to fly Freighters unless they're in a corp so you can wardec them. Something political about "Concord does not allow unregistered freighters to fly about in highsec." I know what Nanobotter is about, he wants to be able to fly around afk in his freighter making trade runs, buy 300m worth of stuff here, sell it for 400m there. He wants to be able to make money while watching The Simpsons. As long as his corp isn't wardecced, wouldn't make much difference would it?
Tazerz2 Gallente Information Science Security	Posted - 2007.06.03 17:02:00 - [36] Edited by: Tazerz2 on 03/06/2007 17:03:08 Just something that came to me about 5 seconds ago when reeling through the responses: Hypothetically speaking, if you were to scan the cargohold of a ship while at a gate, CONCORD's actions would be to web + scram you for, say, a minute so you can't really go anywhere. ANYTHING you do within X time (including scanning again/another ship) will cause them to open fire. The analogy of punching someone in the shnozz here would be CONCORD clocking (remove the "L") back its hand ready to punch you if you speak another word Think of it as a kinda probation or nbersurveillance, giving the potential victim to be on their way (providing they aren't autopiloting), if you will :P It has flaws, so it's open to scrutiny. EDIT: i can't say "co cking" ?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.06.03 17:23:00 - [37] NO this is in line with making the entire eve game bland and boring guess what you carebears will do when the pvpers leave for another game? thats right you will sell cargo expanders to each other so that you can build bigger ships and haul bigger minerals for ... bigger freighters so that you can oh wait no one will be there to buy your stuff cause every carebear builds their own stuff stop trying to make the game boring for pvpers ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.03 18:08:00 - [38] Unless things have changed in the last few months, Cans and Escrow wrapping do NOT hide cargo. I have more than one account. I ran some tests a few months ago, and found that no matter what I did, there was no way to hide cargo. Quote: Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Sebesto Minmatar Destination Unknown	Posted - 2007.06.03 18:15:00 - [39] If there are people who are willing to suicide against your freighter/hauler/whatever in high sec, then if you would put something that prevents scanning it would happen more often. Because if they scanned and it came back with, Scanners fail to inspect <Person> then they would most likely think you were hauling a ton of good loot. Even if you had no cargo seeing this they would have no idea that you were hauling nothing and still pop you on the premise that you have something good to hide.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.06.03 18:59:00 - [40] Quote: I know what Nanobotter is about, he wants to be able to fly around afk in his freighter making trade runs, buy 300m worth of stuff here, sell it for 400m there. He wants to be able to make money while watching The Simpsons. LOL you seem to have no clue what I am about. I cannot fly frieghters, I absolutely DO NOT TRANSPORT, I am not a trader nothing close, none of my characters do it. I live in 0.0 and simply see this entire stupid low risk extreme reward suicide ganking as a broken gameplay mechanic just like borked spawns in complexes were. you want what amounts to open pvp get your arse out to 0.0 chump Hell I don;t even watch the simpsons or anything while I play lol. Again for the record something as devious as suicide ganking should be VERY HIGH RISK, as opposed to what it is right now which is almost zero risk. I never been suicded on, I am never in empire I do not trade or transport jack squat. I see something wack in this game I simply want it fixed. You empire hugging carebear wanna be "eve is harsh" people who suicide need to get your weak chicken butts out where YOU can be exposed to the harshness of eve for once, at the very least if CCP won;t force you out to me, you sdhould have SERIOUS risk for suicide ganking.

Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.06.03 19:15:00 - [41] Quote: NO this is in line with making the entire eve game bland and boring guess what you carebears will do when the pvpers leave for another game? Nice try but it would make the game more exciting and intense. right now it is bland and boring, scan cargo estimate value and know FOR SURE if it's worth suiciding on, make it so you cannot see the cargo and suddenly it is exciting. You suicide but have no idea if you are going to make or loose money.....they way it must be. The question is what the empire hugging carebear suicide gankers are going to do if this cheap little exploit gets closed up on them... Please don;t even bother trying to pass off empire suicide gankers as pvp player mkay? PVP players live in 0.0 not empire kk hugger?
Lucai	Posted - 2007.06.03 20:51:00 - [42] Edited by: Lucai on 03/06/2007 20:52:59 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Unless things have changed in the last few months, Cans and Escrow wrapping do NOT hide cargo. I have more than one account. I ran some tests a few months ago, and found that no matter what I did, there was no way to hide cargo. Youre a bit on the slow side side or what? Dindnt i just say that when they changed loading of container items in space 6-12 weeks ago* (cant remember exactly when) they broke or switched off scanning of containers? * Probably a part of the server-side optimizations of the need for speed initiative. So thanks for stating your findings, but they are outdated, but the mantra really seems to be strong. You¦re of course free to test again, myself, im checking every time i undock my freighter(every 2-3 days).
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.06.03 22:59:00 - [43] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Quote: I know what Nanobotter is about, he wants to be able to fly around afk in his freighter making trade runs, buy 300m worth of stuff here, sell it for 400m there. He wants to be able to make money while watching The Simpsons. LOL you seem to have no clue what I am about. I cannot fly frieghters, I absolutely DO NOT TRANSPORT, I am not a trader nothing close, none of my characters do it. I live in 0.0 and simply see this entire stupid low risk extreme reward suicide ganking as a broken gameplay mechanic just like borked spawns in complexes were. you want what amounts to open pvp get your arse out to 0.0 chump Hell I don;t even watch the simpsons or anything while I play lol. Again for the record something as devious as suicide ganking should be VERY HIGH RISK, as opposed to what it is right now which is almost zero risk. I never been suicded on, I am never in empire I do not trade or transport jack squat. I see something wack in this game I simply want it fixed. You empire hugging carebear wanna be "eve is harsh" people who suicide need to get your weak chicken butts out where YOU can be exposed to the harshness of eve for once, at the very least if CCP won;t force you out to me, you sdhould have SERIOUS risk for suicide ganking. So you don't fly freighters. You might fly industrials but not in empire. You've never been suicide ganked. You've never suicide ganked anyone in empire. You don't even live in empire. And apparently the only way you know whether something is screwed up about the situation is by reading it on the forums. Where, of course, reporting is always fair and balanced and never overstated. ... Do you have any first hand experience with the subject matter that seems to get you so worked up? Or are we to just take it on faith that your forum reading skills can save the day? Oh, and post with your main. ------------------- Say What?
space hobo Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.03 23:04:00 - [44] I OWN >:( ------------------- 400x120@24000 bytes Maximum please. - Acario Vito its not my fault that noobs PC's cant handle small image's - space hobo
raven415 Caldari Special Projects Corp	Posted - 2007.06.03 23:05:00 - [45] if ccp does that then customs agents will get nailed by concord
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.06.03 23:31:00 - [46] Quote: So you don't fly freighters. You might fly industrials but not in empire. You've never been suicide ganked. You've never suicide ganked anyone in empire. You don't even live in empire. And apparently the only way you know whether something is screwed up about the situation is by reading it on the forums. Where, of course, reporting is always fair and balanced and never overstated. ... Do you have any first hand experience with the subject matter that seems to get you so worked up? Or are we to just take it on faith that your forum reading skills can save the day? Oh, and post with your main. You do not need to be a hauler or have been suicided on before to be able to see something is CLEARLY BROKEN with it. Nice job avoiding pretty much everything about it because as we all know once you to discuss the tangibles you can easily see there is a big problem. People with insured ships, creating situation where there is little loss for them, no chance for their target to initiate upon them, nor defend itself....and those same cowards abusing the game mechanics having the nerve to call other people carebears..... You actually think jumping in a hauler and filling with with 50 +3 implants to loose to a ganker would allow me to understand the problem better? the problem is simple and well documented. All angles have been covered, there is no defense to it. My point of view is that if we want to allow suicide ganking should'nt it be an EXTREMELY risky activity? And your response is post with my main.... way to adress the issue! PS If i wanted you to know my main I would use it.....spend more time in 0.0 you might get to meet my main
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.06.04 01:07:00 - [47] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Crap imo. NPC corps shouldn't be allowed to fly anything that trial accounts can't. CCP give this man a job SKUNK
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.04 01:22:00 - [48] How about a set of containers that cannot be scanned. They will give a cargo penalty, but make it so that the contents cannot be scanned. Also you can make it so that if you get scanned you can attack him freely just as if he looted a jet can of yours. Make Mining Better
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.04 10:16:00 - [49] For me, the very fact of making cargo unscannable actually flags the ship for destruction... Why hide something not valuable ?

lickspittle	Posted - 2007.06.04 11:36:00 - [50] Originally by: Lucai Dindnt i just say that when they changed loading of container items in space 6-12 weeks ago* (cant remember exactly when) they broke or switched off scanning of containers? * Probably a part of the server-side optimizations of the need for speed initiative. Completely unrelated. My scanning code would only return results from inside containers if the scanning action was falloff based; it only handled non-falloff based scanning as a side-effect. Sometime before December last year someone removed the falloff usage for cargo scanning and since then cargo scanning hasn't been returning those results. I have checked in a fix internally and do not know if it will make it out in the upcoming patch. -- Richard CCP Pro-grammar. Anything said above is not the official line, but my own take or opinion. I am more likely to post in response to posts written using proper grammar.


Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.04 11:49:00 - [51] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Quote: So you don't fly freighters. You might fly industrials but not in empire. You've never been suicide ganked. You've never suicide ganked anyone in empire. You don't even live in empire. And apparently the only way you know whether something is screwed up about the situation is by reading it on the forums. Where, of course, reporting is always fair and balanced and never overstated. ... Do you have any first hand experience with the subject matter that seems to get you so worked up? Or are we to just take it on faith that your forum reading skills can save the day? Oh, and post with your main. You do not need to be a hauler or have been suicided on before to be able to see something is CLEARLY BROKEN with it. Nice job avoiding pretty much everything about it because as we all know once you to discuss the tangibles you can easily see there is a big problem. People with insured ships, creating situation where there is little loss for them, no chance for their target to initiate upon them, nor defend itself....and those same cowards abusing the game mechanics having the nerve to call other people carebears..... You actually think jumping in a hauler and filling with with 50 +3 implants to loose to a ganker would allow me to understand the problem better? the problem is simple and well documented. All angles have been covered, there is no defense to it. My point of view is that if we want to allow suicide ganking should'nt it be an EXTREMELY risky activity? And your response is post with my main.... way to adress the issue! PS If i wanted you to know my main I would use it.....spend more time in 0.0 you might get to meet my main Dont afk travel then. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.04 12:15:00 - [52] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Time to step up and add some balance to suicide ganking CCP. Well, here's the rub. The hauler has 100%, complete, absolute control of the risk vs reward balance of suicide ganking him. The hauler decides how hard it is to kill him with his choice of ship and fittings. The hauler decides how much potential reward there is in ganking him by what and how much he puts in his hold. Cargo and ship scanners can be used by the ganker to assess the balance on offer, but they have no choice in what balance the hauler chooses to offer. And the results of the scanners by no means offer certainty of the outcome, there's still the risk of the random loot pop to contend with. The main misconceptions I usually see in this topic are: 1) Because you can haul something in a given ship/setup, it should be a good idea to do so. 2) CONCORD should protect you from all hostile consequences of your choices within empire. Neither of which are the case, and nor should they be. Cramming a fully expanded Iteron V with megacyte should never be a good idea. Every ship and fitting has a cost to gank - the cost of ganking it in ships/modules etc lost to CONCORD. Every cargo has a likely drop value - the most likely value of surviving items when put through the random loot popper. Whenever the second value exceeds the first, you will be an attractive gank target. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with this mechanic. Measures like removing ship insurance for ships lost to CONCORD doesn't really change that mechanic, it just changes the break-even value. This break-even value is key to balance for the whole system, so you would need to demonstrate why the current values are not appropriate. Nerfing cargo scanning would also nerf the smart haulers who use the correct ship and fitting for the correct cargo. Now, the gankers can see he's made the smart decision and hold off. If you nerf cargo scanning, they'll have to try the gank just to find out, which defeats the point of fitting sensibly. You would be increasing protection to those that do not deserve it, at the cost of those that do. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.04 12:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 You actually think jumping in a hauler and filling with with 50 +3 implants to loose to a ganker would allow me to understand the problem better? You see, this is exactly the sort of thing I was referring to. What makes you think that putting 50 +3 implants in to a dirt cheap little tin-can of a hauler should be a good idea? Of course, anyone able to check the item properties would see that 50 +3 implants take up just 50m3. Anyone with any experience of hauling could tell you that an industrial ship is a supremely bad choice for hauling cargoes of that size. With cargo that small you could use pretty much any ship you liked, and there are many ships that have advantages over an industrial. Put it in a fast frigate or interceptor, fit for speed, and you'll never be in one place long enough for potential gankers to even scan you. You'll also get to your destination a lot faster. Put it in a covert ops, and they'll never even see you to know you're there to gank. You could even try a heavily tanked battleship and just push their cost to gank up massively (though this isn't my prefered option). ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Ladyah Liandri VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2007.06.04 12:53:00 - [54] Originally by: i take cargo scanning is as much a hostile act as any EW used. so make it so. and STOP protecting "your" kind of people¿s play style, at least be a bit fair.. sigh damn ..... Come again? Scanning distrupts, disables, jams which module exactly? Does it prevent you from flying off? And btw. do you shoot customs IRL if they scan your bags?
Fafnir Drake Gallente Boob Heads Haud Terminus	Posted - 2007.06.04 13:13:00 - [55] imo being scanned should set off the agression timer that ya get when say, taking a can or w/e. Not summon concord instant I.W.I.N. Someone wants to snoop, fine. But my escort can open a can of whoop ass on em then. Course, this would be reserved for when ya can win. It's better imo then concord b/c he nice pretty killmails. ------ "A wise man once told me never to argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.06.04 13:14:00 - [56] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 You do not need to be a hauler or have been suicided on before to be able to see something is CLEARLY BROKEN with it. Nice job avoiding pretty much everything about it because as we all know once you to discuss the tangibles you can easily see there is a big problem. It's not "clearly broken" at all. It's clearly "just fine". If people fit their haulers worth a crap and didn't put billion+ of goods in a ship not worth even a 10th of that, if they actually play the game instead of putting their ships on autopilot and going off to nuke a burrito, guess what... their odds of getting ganked plummet drastically. So saying, "there is no defense to it" is just plain wrong. Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 And your response is post with my main.... way to adress the issue! I say post with your main because I think you're full of ***. I wouldn't be surprised at all if you weren't some isk seller just trying to protect your hisec farming crew. All your talk about "I'm a big 0.0 nut buster" while jumping on every single* "make empire safer" thread you can with your foaming at the mouth approach, calling people chumps and pirates carebears... Right. Post with your main. ------------------- Say What?
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.06.04 13:26:00 - [57] Screw the cargo hiding, give me a mid slot module that lets me ensure that all of my cargo gets destroyed with the ship. The deliberate destruction of your own ship (read: suicide attack) should not make you ISK.
Clambake	Posted - 2007.06.04 17:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Ogul Screw the cargo hiding, give me a mid slot module that lets me ensure that all of my cargo gets destroyed with the ship. The deliberate destruction of your own ship (read: suicide attack) should not make you ISK. psst put your cargo up for contract and then cancel it, stuff in bubble wrap always blows up.
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.06.04 17:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Clambake psst put your cargo up for contract and then cancel it, stuff in bubble wrap always blows up. Pish-tosh. _____________________________________________ Free the Oimmo One!
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.04 18:38:00 - [60] Originally by: Ogul Screw the cargo hiding, give me a mid slot module that lets me ensure that all of my cargo gets destroyed with the ship. The deliberate destruction of your own ship (read: suicide attack) should not make you ISK. Warp Core Destabilisr 4tw! What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!



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