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Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.06.04 13:19:00 - [1] Besides the known facts the the Astarte is for guns and the Eos is for more drones and massive gang modules. Which one would be more beneficial for each pvp and pve. I'm attempting to decide which one I should go for first, eventually I want to be able to use both. But only having close to 5Mill SP, 2 in learning and another mill in drones. Of the people who use the command ships, which one's do people like the most? (Gallente/Caldari Command Ships Only) They both use hybrid and initially, I'm not int he mood to spend another 3 months getting up minmitar weapons and cruiser skills.
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.04 13:48:00 - [2] Astarte's are more manly tbh In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Captain Powers	Posted - 2007.06.04 13:51:00 - [3] I am currently using the EOS to do missions with ( Trying ). For cheap PvP, I fell in love with the Thorax for PvP. That ship basically rocks for every cheap isk you can put into it. The Astarte is a nice gunship that should be more like hi/mid/low of 7/3/7 imho that wishes it could match what the Thorax was. I can never really see it using 3 magstabs in the lows. Even with this setup, I don't think it could break what firepower an EOS can do. I have say if you're going with a sniper, I lean toward the Astarte, if you're going to be in the middle and up close, blaster EOS with heavy drones and use the gang modules to make a better tank and gank. Solo PvE, I use the EOS again since having a large drone bay makes up for the lack of quality programming from CCP ( you will lose drones ). Also, I go with dual 150mm guns to take drones and frigs out. The ship tanks wonderfully but lacks a real punch but when you add subpar gun damage with subpar drone damage ( I don't call the EOS a drone ship since it doesn't have drone bonuses, just a drone tank truck like a gas truck lol ), you get half way decent damage. I find the Astarte lacks the range control to do damage at a range I can maintain or choose during missions. Honestly, after investing lots and lots of hours on training drones and armor, I think CCP has made the NH with active shielding better for missions. For PvP, the Minmatar CS's is hard to beat since you can have that CCP's favored shield tank with damage adding mods in the low slots.
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.06.04 14:07:00 - [4] Well, as a command ship I was thinking of using it for the benefit of others and becoming a WC,FC. For PvE, I was probably more so thinking about being beneficial in L5/L6 missions when they come out, or plexes with corp mates.
jbob2000 Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.04 14:14:00 - [5] Eos has a better tank and 5th med slot so would probably be better for PVE. You can also get a pretty good passive shield tank out of it too. Also, many Eos setups use nos which is the ultimate winnar, so in PVP Eos wins. Astarte has pretty mean DPS, but you are very susceptible to nos in it, which is basically what everything comes down to. ________________________________ KIA Recruitment
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.04 14:52:00 - [6] Edited by: Riho on 04/06/2007 14:52:29 Originally by: Captain Powers I am currently using the EOS to do missions with ( Trying ). For cheap PvP, I fell in love with the Thorax for PvP. That ship basically rocks for every cheap isk you can put into it. The Astarte is a nice gunship that should be more like hi/mid/low of 7/3/7 imho that wishes it could match what the Thorax was. I can never really see it using 3 magstabs in the lows. Even with this setup, I don't think it could break what firepower an EOS can do. I have say if you're going with a sniper, I lean toward the Astarte, if you're going to be in the middle and up close, blaster EOS with heavy drones and use the gang modules to make a better tank and gank. Solo PvE, I use the EOS again since having a large drone bay makes up for the lack of quality programming from CCP ( you will lose drones ). Also, I go with dual 150mm guns to take drones and frigs out. The ship tanks wonderfully but lacks a real punch but when you add subpar gun damage with subpar drone damage ( I don't call the EOS a drone ship since it doesn't have drone bonuses, just a drone tank truck like a gas truck lol ), you get half way decent damage. I find the Astarte lacks the range control to do damage at a range I can maintain or choose during missions. Honestly, after investing lots and lots of hours on training drones and armor, I think CCP has made the NH with active shielding better for missions. For PvP, the Minmatar CS's is hard to beat since you can have that CCP's favored shield tank with damage adding mods in the low slots. PVE side... Astarte > EOS allways :) eos has to use drones(whit no dmg bonus) and and has crap dmg on guns :P astarte doesnt have to use drones but its a very good thing if you do... falloff bonus + second dmg bonus > all :D use 250mm t2 rails and you will be hitting 1km to 40km easy whit 20km optimal on antimatter whit nice skills :D (that means 20km falloff) so that invalidates anything you said about range in missions :P tanks vell enough allso :D serp and gurista missions are easy as pie angel missions are OK to do. in PVP both ships are extremely very good. Astarte is for small gangs tho but eos is a super solopwnmobile if fitted kinda like a nos domi whit few guns :) it tanks very good. EDIT: on serp missions i do missions faster in a astarte than a siege or a cruise missions... angel is bit faster whit raven but not much :P raven just tanks a lil bit better on angel missions :D --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
Vasiliyan Dutch T2 Production	Posted - 2007.06.04 15:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Captain Powers I am currently using the EOS to do missions with ( Trying ). For cheap PvP, I fell in love with the Thorax for PvP. That ship basically rocks for every cheap isk you can put into it. The Astarte is a nice gunship that should be more like hi/mid/low of 7/3/7 imho that wishes it could match what the Thorax was. I can never really see it using 3 magstabs in the lows. I use a 3 magstab Astarte for missions. The tank is somewhat more fragile as a result (single T2 rep, 2 hardeners), so it requires careful piloting and probably won't work against longrange missile spam. It chews up Serpentis nicely though. BTW, d150s suck badly - 150mm small guns do more damage most of the time, especially against drones and frigs.
Captain Powers	Posted - 2007.06.04 15:55:00 - [8] Strange, I once again tried using quickfit using a Kestrel as a target and compared damage with dual 150mm against the 150mm smalls. Damage ( with my skills ) is highest with the dual 150mm. Also compared raw DPS of Astarte vs EOS. I will favor my EOS since DPS is over what the Astarte can deal out with greater selection of drones to help control a situation with flexibility. Heavies compared to Mediums against cruisers and larger is better. I have to agree with the 250mm's being awesome with falloff range. I never looked hard enough at that wonderful coverage. But your powergrid dies in order to support 7 250mm guns. If you want to pilot like a Mega and have to warp in and out on missions, by all means, load it up but I'll clear the mission faster due to no warps and maintaining similiar dps. Time is money in Eve mission running. Also, if you can't really out gank someone, you probably won't win either imho. I'm not much of a PvP so don't take my word on the Astarte vs EOS but when it comes to missions, the hand will favor the monster tanking the EOS can endure with DPS, even if it was under Astarte, good enough to clear fast and easy without warps. No cap boosters needed so it's cheap to operate. Runs a dual repairer setup that I only have to turn my AB off to run forever ( have 2 armor repair boost rigs, not CCC's ). With only T2, it's not as expensive as a full decked out T2 Raven. Like everything in Eve, if you go by just numbers alone, someone thinking outside the box will surprise you. I've only found a nice starting point, it's not the end point .
xenodia Gallente Shadowrun Company	Posted - 2007.06.04 16:20:00 - [9] Any gun with the word "dual" in it generally blows, except on capitals, where in some cases you dont have an alternative.
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.06.04 17:31:00 - [10] Its not the range or damage that suck with the "duals" its the tracking that blows balls. And its almost not worth putting in a tracking computer at all when your "sniping" hehe. Blasters I might depending on the ship. But yeah, Duals sucks... tracking/damage combination makes you miss more than hit so the extra damage/fire rate doesn't offset the lack of tracking.

Nixeh Gallente Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.04 17:38:00 - [11] i would say astarte or depending on how the eos is fitted Astarte > Blaster Eos Nos Eos > Astarte im personally opinion Signature Your signature exceeds the 24000 byte limit. -Darth Patches
Baudolino Gallente Zer0 ToLeRaNcE Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.06.04 18:10:00 - [12] An Astarte piloted by a well developed player will slaughter an EOS with ease. I know, cause i fly both routinely and can fly all command ships except minmatar. I normally don`t post regarding such matters, but i`ll make an exception for this one. The following text is drawn from memory and based on a rather long argument i posted in my corp some time ago. Guns beat drones Alot of people think otherwise, but this is due to statistical inerrancies which i`ll go through now. sentraltendency as a depiction of the statistical mean does not work on guns (remember that drones also use guns) It only works on missiles boats and this is due to the constant value of each variable (missile). I.e if your total damage output on missiles are 4800 when multiplying the damage of each variable, by deviding the total with ROF you`ll get a correct depiction of your DPS. People use this way of approach on all matters. Missiles, guns , repping etc. On guns the approach is just silly. Guns need to be calculated per salvo per gun- this is due to the fact that the base damage (modifier x ammo damage) is not a constant variable. The effective damage varies from 50%-300% of base meaning that each salvo will do either 0.5 or 4x the base damage. The percentage will vary according to the size of the guns, size of target and of course speed, range and tracking. Lets stick to the astarte and eos. You`ve got cruiser sized guns with cruiser tracking against a battlecruiser- meaning that the salvos will generally maintain a higher percentage. When calculating the effective DPS you need to know possible range of values- so lets see. Heavy drones at max skills (reckon that`s 4.5mill or so SP in drones)- Ogre IIs do the most damage I`m taking the values from memory here so they might be slightly off, but not by much i should think. Ogre II would do about 80 damage per second- giving it a range of 40-320 damage Neutron blaster II (max skills on astarte) should do around 370 (though you can get 392 if you really work for it), giving it a range of 185-1480. Maxed astarte will have 3.1 sec ROF (2x MFS) while the drones will have 2 sec rof so the drones get 3 salvos for every 2 of the astarte- still a wild descprepancy in damage output though. Considering you have 5 sources of drone damage and 7 sources of gun damage the damage difference will be by any measure impressive. As for calculating the DPS it`S by now obvious that sentraltendancy will not work- so what will. Median or Modus are the only way to calculate and you`ll need to do it versus different ships in different situations to acquire are clear picture and it takes time. The astarte can maintain about the same resistance as the EOS, but the EOS will most often use 2 reppers while the astarte will have 1. The EOS will of course need nos to maintain the tank. Astarte works fine against nos. I can sustain my cap while fighting a BS with 3x heavy nos. If he uses 4x heavy nos or equivalent, i`ll need to take him down fast. In general, nos is not much of an issue unless you`re fighting multiple targets. On paper the EOS looks really good, but in actuality the effective DPS is pitifull. I would not use the EOS for anything, but gang support. The Astarte on the other hand is well for respecting.
Ardicimus	Posted - 2007.06.04 19:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Nixeh i would say astarte or depending on how the eos is fitted Astarte > Blaster Eos Nos Eos > Astarte im personally opinion
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.06.04 19:16:00 - [14] Thats what I thought, based on the ship itself. I only wish 2 things. 1)Gang support didn't make you so viable to death, 3 modules could run longer without injectors. 2) They make all Tier2 BC's into Command Ships.
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.04 19:46:00 - [15] well... i do ALL missions including Angel ganza and angel blockade (one of the hardest angel missions imo) in a astarte whit t2 fit whitout jumping out once... 1 repper :)... you cant do some missions whit eos couse of drone agro :P and your gun domg is to bad to do those stages whitout drones.... Astarte > eos still :P frigs = 2 or 3 guns on one and die in one volley. cruiser = 3 or so volleys BC = same BS die quite fast quite fast (as fast as my torp raven does :) ) but still.. user prefrence :D do you want gimped drone dmg and gimped gun dmg or sick gun dmg and gimped drone dmg.. heavy drones arent that great whitout dmg boni tbh --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
Vasiliyan Dutch T2 Production	Posted - 2007.06.04 22:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Riho heavy drones arent that great whitout dmg boni tbh And they're damn slow as well. That has to be factored in against theoretical DPS calculations - on missions they'll spend a lot of time trundling from one target to the next.
xenodia Gallente Shadowrun Company	Posted - 2007.06.04 23:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Vasiliyan Originally by: Riho heavy drones arent that great whitout dmg boni tbh And they're damn slow as well. That has to be factored in against theoretical DPS calculations - on missions they'll spend a lot of time trundling from one target to the next. So will the Astarte
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.05 00:11:00 - [18] EOS is cheaper, has a better resists, more useful mid slots, better CPU/Grid (i think)and a huge drone bay. Astarte has a damage bonus. Both are great ships, but 1v1, pretty much no Astarte setup could beat a well tanked NOS EOS with 5 EC-900 drones. I dont need to make my preference clearer - but the choice is simple - buy both. - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.05 00:35:00 - [19] Originally by: xenodia Originally by: Vasiliyan Originally by: Riho heavy drones arent that great whitout dmg boni tbh And they're damn slow as well. That has to be factored in against theoretical DPS calculations - on missions they'll spend a lot of time trundling from one target to the next. So will the Astarte No because astarte fights with railguns, drones are a option. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
kill0rbunny Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.06.05 08:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Both are great ships, but 1v1, pretty much no Astarte setup could beat a well tanked NOS EOS with 5 EC-900 drones. You are suggesting an all out nos setup with no damage drones? What are you trying to do annoying your enemy till he logs off? I pew therefore I am.

Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.05 09:46:00 - [21] Originally by: xenodia Originally by: Vasiliyan Originally by: Riho heavy drones arent that great whitout dmg boni tbh And they're damn slow as well. That has to be factored in against theoretical DPS calculations - on missions they'll spend a lot of time trundling from one target to the next. So will the Astarte no it wount... you will use 250mm rails on astarte and shoot up to 40km whit one ammo type (1-40km whit optimal around 20km and falloff allso 20km... depends on skills) most missions i do like on a raven.. jump in... start shooting and start moveing towards the next gate if needed. if the targets are further away than 40km... i change to iridium and pop smaller stuff untill the large stuff gets into antimatter range and then nuke them down :P if done right nothing will get under 10km of me unless its 4-5 BS what i can tank whit t2 fittings (my lows: mar t2, ean t2, dcu t2, 2x active hardener, mag stab t2. 1x rep rig and 1x rep speed rig) whit a eos you cant do that... if you use ralis.. they wount reach far.... drones are too slow allso :( --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
R'adeh Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.06.05 11:07:00 - [22] For solo work the EOS is much (MUCH) better. If I fit a sensor booster, I am more resistant against damps than an Astarte, I usually couldn't care less if they tracking disrupt me, and I don't need ammo...which means I can usually stay out longer in 0.0 and can also fit more cap charges. The Astarte shines in gangs if you fit for gank...mini gankathron ftw _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp.
Shohadaku	Posted - 2007.06.05 11:34:00 - [23] Originally by: jbob2000 Eos has a better tank and 5th med slot so would probably be better for PVE. You can also get a pretty good passive shield tank out of it too. Also, many Eos setups use nos which is the ultimate winnar, so in PVP Eos wins. Astarte has pretty mean DPS, but you are very susceptible to nos in it, which is basically what everything comes down to. I really doubt you have ever had a good astarte pilot fight a eos in front of you. The astarte does MASSIVE DPS with the correct skills. Both ships are kick ass, but I would put my money on the astarte from seeing both in action. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering." Shohadaku New York Metal
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.06.05 11:51:00 - [24] Eos: gang and fleet warfare, 3 gang mods, NOS, drones. Astarte: Solo and Pve, solo with neutrons and ecm drones, PvE with 250mm rails and ogre II.. BUT, if u only have 5mil SP, then u are still WAAAAYYYY off from command ships..i didnt sit into my commmand ship until i had 20mil SP..think about all the support skills.. Having only 5mil, i doubt u have any decent drone skills, so u must have decent gunnery to have at least decent gunnery skills. Remember: command ship needs t2 guns and drones..
Bentula	Posted - 2007.06.05 12:03:00 - [25] Tbh i have seen astarte as much as onevolleying heavy drones, so i have to say the eos drone advantage is pretty much gonna be dead. And i doubt the eos can tank the astarte long enough for its nos to chew through the astartes charges. Then again for pve eos all the way. 7 Railsguns + 5 sentrys > 7 Railguns + 25% damage. And you still get to have 5 ogre IIs and some spares to use if the guys get to close for sentrys.
Donathan Slade Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.06.05 15:28:00 - [26] Why would you be using the Eos with ZERO Gang mods? That defeats the purpose of being able to even have 3 of them.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:07:00 - [27] Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 05/06/2007 16:06:07 Originally by: Baudolino An Astarte piloted by a well developed player will slaughter an EOS with ease. I know, cause i fly both routinely and can fly all command ships except minmatar. ..... I disagree. Anyone worth their salt should be using a couple Ions. That'll push DPS to around 500, including the dual repper. Using a single Nos is probably all you need, in addition to an Injector. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:16:00 - [28] Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 05/06/2007 16:15:37 Eos Heavy Neutron Blaster II [80xVoid M] Heavy Ion Blaster II [120xVoid M] Heavy Ion Blaster II [120xVoid M] Medium Nosferatu I Medium Nosferatu I Heavy Neutron Blaster II [80xVoid M] Heavy Neutron Blaster II [80xVoid M] Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Tracking Disruptor II Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Rigs : Nanobot Accelerator I \ Nanobot Accelerator I \ Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II 4612 shield, 11.53/s, E/T/K/Ex=12/64/86/64 5405 armor, E/T/K/Ex=72/77/88/71 3375.0 cap, +16.54/s, -68.346/s 329.0 m/s 584.0 DPS - raw damage Looks like it would eat an astarte. 130 dps repped, or something. Tracking disrupter may probe problems. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
50freefly Caldari Purify United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:39:00 - [29] 1v1 Eos wins. Why? Because it has gigantic resists to the Damage type Astarte uses. Also, I have flown an Astarte and if you want to run any tank at all with guns you are ridiculously vulnerable to nos, and will end up not being able to shoot the Eos. No guns = no damage = dead Astarte. TBH except in gangs I prefer the Myrm to the Astarte, and even then I can fit my myrm to do almost as much DPS as my Astarte. Originally by: Eight Ace For reasons that have been lost in the mists of time all caldari ships are designed by two people. One does the left hand side and the other does the right. And they never meet.
Ione Hunt Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:04:00 - [30] I'm a 33mil SP 100% Gallente spec'ed pilot. And I would never engage an Eos when flying an Astarte unless I knew the Eos pilot was drunk/stupid/asleep/lagged out. _______________ random sig with a hot chick



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