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SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.05 00:17:00 - [1] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=531653 Originally by: Kaemonn Please dont rant. If you want to make a new thread, please do, but do so in a calm and constructive manner. Very well Dear Tuxford I canÆt help but notice that you have been spending a awful lot of time on heat. Which me a lot of my colleges donÆt recall asking for this ôfutureö myself and a number of others believe that your time would be much better spent fixing certain issues we have been having such as nosferatu. /me angry outburst off Nos has a tendency to be victorious in most 1v1s Nos also has a major advantage in small engagements What is the point of using capacitor heavy modules such as lasers or hybrids when a less skilled pilot can fight on the same level in a much smaller period of time. Nosferatu is not affected by anything such as tracking or signature radius there is no other module like it, A large percentage of people have been waiting for a change to it since cold warÆs release when it began to show its strength it has taken many forums in the past 2 years but with every change of late prolonging the duration of combat it has become even stronger. After 2 years there has been many suggested fixes which I would ask the community to highlight in this tread enough time has passed it needs to be changed. Now if you dont mind am off to look after some abandoned kittens GOSH DARN THAT NOS! snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.05 00:32:00 - [2] Originally by: SasRipper Nosferatu is not affected by anything such as tracking or signature radius there is no other module like it, A large percentage of people have been waiting for a change to it since cold warÆs release when it began to show its strength it has taken many forums in the past 2 years but with every change of late prolonging the duration of combat it has become even stronger. There are other modules like it, heck, most EW is like NOS. True, some of them, damps for example have falloff, but - their range is vastly longer. Having that said, nos is not allright. Yes, it is good tool in 1on1's, but surely not a critical one - like the scram. If it was, the blasterthron for example would be pointless, right? A nosdomi would win over it every time? All kinds of EW is very annoying, but they deal no damage themselves. Nos on the other hand deals damage by removing opponent tank, and tanks, by giving you more cap, and disables the opponent. This is unique for the NOS. And its highslot. This is what makes Nos just a bit to much. However, theres one faction specializing in nos, above the rest, Amarr. Have you ever tried flying amarr in small gangs or one on one encounters? Heat is partly intended as a boost for Amarr - greatly asked for.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.05 00:33:00 - [3] Going emo on the forums? Listen to the blogtape. You can hear CCP talking about possible changes to nos, like not sucking away cap when your cap is allready higher as that off your oponent. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.05 00:34:00 - [4] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: SasRipper Heat is partly intended as a boost for Amarr - greatly asked for. you havent been on test have you? snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.05 00:35:00 - [5] yes i have heard the blog but even still i dont see why we are being forced to wait even longer snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.05 00:45:00 - [6] I really hate noob style caps lock posts but I think I need to say it to get through to you. EVE IS NOT BALANCED BASED ON 1 VS 1 COMBAT. Also, as I have said before, if you use one of your slots to fit a cap injector you can counter 4 heavy nos with 400 charges and more or less a full rack of them with 800 charges. (Though no ship can have any meaningful damage/tank combo with a full rack of nos) CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.05 01:25:00 - [7] Oh but I have been on test, and have you noticed the fact that modules does not break due to heat either? Heat issnt final, thats why its on sisi and not tranq. Question is, have YOU been on tranq?
Dr Therikal Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.06.05 01:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix (Though no ship can have any meaningful damage/tank combo with a full rack of nos) lol, learn EVE, please, then come back. --------------------------------- But courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility. -Erwin Rommel
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.05 01:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Dr Therikal Originally by: Vicious Phoenix (Though no ship can have any meaningful damage/tank combo with a full rack of nos) lol, learn EVE, please, then come back. Name one. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
tarin adur Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.05 02:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Dr Therikal Originally by: Vicious Phoenix (Though no ship can have any meaningful damage/tank combo with a full rack of nos) lol, learn EVE, please, then come back. Name one. Dominix can get like 450 dps running T2 ogres,I'd say that's Very good for a ship not fielding guns.

Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.05 02:25:00 - [11] Originally by: tarin adur Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Dr Therikal Originally by: Vicious Phoenix (Though no ship can have any meaningful damage/tank combo with a full rack of nos) lol, learn EVE, please, then come back. Name one. Dominix can get like 450 dps running T2 ogres,I'd say that's Very good for a ship not fielding guns. But it can't fit a full rack of nos and a tank at the same time, which is what I said. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
45thtiger011	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: tarin adur Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Dr Therikal Originally by: Vicious Phoenix (Though no ship can have any meaningful damage/tank combo with a full rack of nos) lol, learn EVE, please, then come back. Name one. Dominix can get like 450 dps running T2 ogres,I'd say that's Very good for a ship not fielding guns. But it can't fit a full rack of nos and a tank at the same time, which is what I said. it can if you shield tank with shield power relays & rcu on the lows
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix But it can't fit a full rack of nos and a tank at the same time, which is what I said. You never specified what size. The dominix can run 2x heavy nos and 4x medium nos without too much trouble. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.05 03:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Vicious Phoenix But it can't fit a full rack of nos and a tank at the same time, which is what I said. You never specified what size. The dominix can run 2x heavy nos and 4x medium nos without too much trouble. Correct, I didn't specify size. But if you run it like that then a heavy cap booster can easily deal with it and it's a moot point. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
lord shadowhawk N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works	Posted - 2007.06.05 04:28:00 - [15] Edited by: lord shadowhawk on 05/06/2007 04:30:30 i wish people would get a clue about fitting... you can runn a full active shield tank on a nos domi and fit a full rack of 6 heavy noss's if you fill the lows with pdu's. you dont need maxed fitting skills to make it work either. im a noss user and have been on both sides of it. the sore point with nos is large boats can disable small boats in seconds... in real combat large ships need defence against smaller ones if they want to survive... (hence anti missile phlanax guns on carriers) the real problem seems to come from a single small ship (curse) being able to wipe out a multiple battleships in verry short order @ extreem range due to the ship bonuses that make an admittedly overpowered module even worse to the point of insanity. even with a heavy injector those little boats can ass ***your cap faster than you can go "what the....." leaveing the boats defencive systems totally offline (unless your useing a soon to be nerfed "passive tank from hell" but than you have no modules to try and counter the attacking boat anyways other than wepons.) allowing afore mentioned cruiser to release a swarm of t2 drones and well if your scrambled not a damn thing you can do about it... oh and dont forget your being tracking disrupted to a point where you cant even fire back with this going on.... standard nos modules you have some chance of avoiding by keeping range on your opponent or countering with heavy injectors as has been stated previously. 200% bonus to nos range and 100% boost to vamp effectiveness for a skilled pilot = your screwed tracking disruptors used in combination make it damn near impossible to keep out of range if your wanting to try and do something to the other guy before your tankless ship gets poped out from under you (if your not scrambled than yes you try to limp warp off before the cap drops below the point of allowing the warp drive to kick in) anyways just my 5c worth on the nos issue. summary nos is overpowered. specialist nos boats are insanly overpowered. what i propose is rather than nefing nos and the boats that use it is give all ships a 20% emergency cap safe guard when being attacked by nos (@ 20% the cap is below peak recharge rate so wont be able to maintain some tanks that push the limits of cap in the first place)so the nos can only effect 80% of the cap after that it hits a hard limit and cant suck anymore energy below that point. (kind of like the way npc caps cant be drained fully) I look foward to peoples oppinions on this idea. curse ship bonuses Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level ArchAngel of Deklein
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.05 04:37:00 - [16] I dont think ECM e-war falls into the nos failing. ECM only works on specific ships, ECM doesnt benefit the owner in any way except taking no damage from the target for a small amount of time. ECM is easily broken by dampeners, other ecm or eccm mods, and the ships are tinfoil, so a small gang shouldnt have too hard a time popping them.. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
lord shadowhawk N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works	Posted - 2007.06.05 04:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Sokratesz I dont think ECM e-war falls into the nos failing. ECM only works on specific ships, ECM doesnt benefit the owner in any way except taking no damage from the target for a small amount of time. ECM is easily broken by dampeners, other ecm or eccm mods, and the ships are tinfoil, so a small gang shouldnt have too hard a time popping them.. hrmm where was ECM e-war even brought up ? the only e-war even mentioned were tracking disruptors used by the same pilot that is nossing you and specificly on the curse.... ArchAngel of Deklein
Xio2 The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.05 06:42:00 - [18] Originally by: lord shadowhawk Originally by: Sokratesz I dont think ECM e-war falls into the nos failing. ECM only works on specific ships, ECM doesnt benefit the owner in any way except taking no damage from the target for a small amount of time. ECM is easily broken by dampeners, other ecm or eccm mods, and the ships are tinfoil, so a small gang shouldnt have too hard a time popping them.. hrmm where was ECM e-war even brought up ? the only e-war even mentioned were tracking disruptors used by the same pilot that is nossing you and specificly on the curse.... 2nd post -------------- Xio2
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.05 06:53:00 - [19] Yeah sorry should've quoted it. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
Destiny Calling Amarr Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.05 07:57:00 - [20] As a purelp specced Amarr pilot, I genuinely do not have a problem with Nos... Really I don't. I can't actually think of a fir for any of ym ships that is Nos dependant, exception of my recons, but I do not fly them that much, though Nos and Amarr recons work well Everything in Eve has a counter, If your being NOS you can inject, if your damped you can sensor boost, if there moving to fast you can web them. I think complaining about Nos being unbalanced is like saying its unfair a warp disruptor stops you from warping as its not affected by tracking/sig etc My predominatly fly Cruiser and BC and fight outside 10-12 km I don't think NOS affects me that much, and really if im up agiasnt a Heavy Diminishing, then I can either fight through or bug out out of range. Take this with a pinch salt, just my opinions, and I would like to think I have a good grasp of the subject. Naturally im as **** off as the next guy when im <10km from target, webbed, scrammed and Nossed to ** but im just as annoyed when that happens and its damps, or Tracking disruptors (hate them bastards) ECM etc thats right I need a new sig

Sailon	Posted - 2007.06.05 08:15:00 - [21] Edited by: Sailon on 05/06/2007 08:16:05 Originally by: lord shadowhawk Edited by: lord shadowhawk on 05/06/2007 04:30:30 i wish people would get a clue about fitting... you can runn a full active shield tank on a nos domi and fit a full rack of 6 heavy noss's if you fill the lows with pdu's. you dont need maxed fitting skills to make it work either. im a noss user and have been on both sides of it. the sore point with nos is large boats can disable small boats in seconds... in real combat large ships need defence against smaller ones if they want to survive... (hence anti missile phlanax guns on carriers) the real problem seems to come from a single small ship (curse) being able to wipe out a multiple battleships in verry short order @ extreem range due to the ship bonuses that make an admittedly overpowered module even worse to the point of insanity. even with a heavy injector those little boats can ass ***your cap faster than you can go "what the....." leaveing the boats defencive systems totally offline (unless your useing a soon to be nerfed "passive tank from hell" but than you have no modules to try and counter the attacking boat anyways other than wepons.) allowing afore mentioned cruiser to release a swarm of t2 drones and well if your scrambled not a damn thing you can do about it... oh and dont forget your being tracking disrupted to a point where you cant even fire back with this going on.... standard nos modules you have some chance of avoiding by keeping range on your opponent or countering with heavy injectors as has been stated previously. 200% bonus to nos range and 100% boost to vamp effectiveness for a skilled pilot = your screwed tracking disruptors used in combination make it damn near impossible to keep out of range if your wanting to try and do something to the other guy before your tankless ship gets poped out from under you (if your not scrambled than yes you try to limp warp off before the cap drops below the point of allowing the warp drive to kick in) anyways just my 5c worth on the nos issue. summary nos is overpowered. specialist nos boats are insanly overpowered. what i propose is rather than nefing nos and the boats that use it is give all ships a 20% emergency cap safe guard when being attacked by nos (@ 20% the cap is below peak recharge rate so wont be able to maintain some tanks that push the limits of cap in the first place)so the nos can only effect 80% of the cap after that it hits a hard limit and cant suck anymore energy below that point. (kind of like the way npc caps cant be drained fully) I look foward to peoples oppinions on this idea. curse ship bonuses Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level then get ew use dampeners on curse also its thin of paper if its not having faction fit you could also check does curse have dmg type hole like pilgrim has thermal dmg hole.
Flem'berk	Posted - 2007.06.05 08:39:00 - [22] Possible fixs Stacking Nos: Question would this mean energy tranfer and neutralizers also stack? Increaseing cycle time on Nos: Simple fixs would mean cap recharge time is more important to a tank + cap boosters would work. ( 400's loose u cap to 4 heavy nos anyway and 800s wond support all your modules for ever whislt ur being nossed. Furthermore it goes bad when u have to relod the cap boosters.) Reduce cap amount obtained by nos or a negative effect to yourself like energy transfers ( except in ships with a bonus) or neutrialzers have.(using some of ur cap to work). Nos resitance: no idea how that would work Current counters = cap boosters( whihc arnt that gd unless ur nonactive tanking or not using void). using long range ammo( so lets all sell or balsters now: null wont save med blasters from heavy nos) having freinds in ew ships( I know the cgame wasnt ment ot be played solo but having to use lots of ships to kill a 1 month old nossing ship fails imo) oh and the current faviorte of most people more nos more nos to counter more nos!!!
Sailon	Posted - 2007.06.05 08:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Flem'berk Possible fixs Stacking Nos: Question would this mean energy tranfer and neutralizers also stack? Increaseing cycle time on Nos: Simple fixs would mean cap recharge time is more important to a tank + cap boosters would work. ( 400's loose u cap to 4 heavy nos anyway and 800s wond support all your modules for ever whislt ur being nossed. Furthermore it goes bad when u have to relod the cap boosters.) Reduce cap amount obtained by nos or a negative effect to yourself like energy transfers ( except in ships with a bonus) or neutrialzers have.(using some of ur cap to work). Nos resitance: no idea how that would work Current counters = cap boosters( whihc arnt that gd unless ur nonactive tanking or not using void). using long range ammo( so lets all sell or balsters now: null wont save med blasters from heavy nos) having freinds in ew ships( I know the cgame wasnt ment ot be played solo but having to use lots of ships to kill a 1 month old nossing ship fails imo) oh and the current faviorte of most people more nos more nos to counter more nos!!! no it would nerf the last good two amarr ships what amarr have i would go for energy emission slots example domi would have 2-3 emission slots so he cant fit full rack of nosses
Flem'berk	Posted - 2007.06.05 08:59:00 - [24] Edited by: Flem''berk on 05/06/2007 09:01:00 Originally by: Sailon no it would nerf the last good two amarr ships what amarr have i would go for energy emission slots example domi would have 2-3 emission slots so he cant fit full rack of nosses[/quote No it wouldnt a megapulse geddon is very powerful almsot same dps as B'thron but geddon is very cap heavy. vengence cap recharge bonus makes it a tough nut to ***** cos its hard to nos dry. and the nos bonus on curse or pilgrim would not be affected that much by an increased cycle time. or reduction in amout of cap drained.amarr have lots of greatship and would do better if people used less nos BUt energy emission slots is gd
Sailon	Posted - 2007.06.05 09:06:00 - [25] Edited by: Sailon on 05/06/2007 09:05:26 Originally by: Flem'berk Originally by: Sailon no it would nerf the last good two amarr ships what amarr have i would go for energy emission slots example domi would have 2-3 emission slots so he cant fit full rack of nosses[/quote No it wouldnt a megapulse geddon is very powerful almsot same dps as B'thron but geddon is very cap heavy. vengence cap recharge bonus makes it a tough nut to *** cos its hard to nos dry. and the nos bonus on curse or pilgrim would not be affected that much by an increased cycle time. or reduction in amout of cap drained.amarr have lots of greatship and would do better if people used less nos well firstly amarr ships em damage is same as **ing on electric wire while its being so highly resisted many great ships oh yea we cant even fit our lasers perfectly on some of our ships oh and we also miss one bonus so we can shoot our crappy laserlamps theres only very few good amarr ships
Baudolino Gallente Zer0 ToLeRaNcE Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.06.05 09:10:00 - [26] I`ve decided to do my part to keep nos as they are.. Why nos are not a problem.. As i see it, the major issue arrises from the combination of nos with loads of sensor damps, jamming and or nanos. Nos per se is by far a sure means of victory.
Flem'berk	Posted - 2007.06.05 09:16:00 - [27] Originally by: Sailon Edited by: Sailon on 05/06/2007 09:05:26 Originally by: Flem'berk Originally by: Sailon no it would nerf the last good two amarr ships what amarr have i would go for energy emission slots example domi would have 2-3 emission slots so he cant fit full rack of nosses[/quote No it wouldnt a megapulse geddon is very powerful almsot same dps as B'thron but geddon is very cap heavy. vengence cap recharge bonus makes it a tough nut to *** cos its hard to nos dry. and the nos bonus on curse or pilgrim would not be affected that much by an increased cycle time. or reduction in amout of cap drained.amarr have lots of greatship and would do better if people used less nos well firstly amarr ships em damage is same as **ing on electric wire while its being so highly resisted many great ships oh yea we cant even fit our lasers perfectly on some of our ships oh and we also miss one bonus so we can shoot our crappy laserlamps theres only very few good amarr ships Em damage is prity gd unless your taget is fitting dual eanm II but gank geddons and abbadons work fine for me, saying that my t2 gun pulse harb has no trouble with astartes or brutix's.And u get better range with pulse lasers than blasters.
bloomich Trotter's Independent Traders Co	Posted - 2007.06.05 09:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: tarin adur Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Dr Therikal Originally by: Vicious Phoenix (Though no ship can have any meaningful damage/tank combo with a full rack of nos) lol, learn EVE, please, then come back. Name one. Dominix can get like 450 dps running T2 ogres,I'd say that's Very good for a ship not fielding guns. But it can't fit a full rack of nos and a tank at the same time, which is what I said. /me whistles.... Powergrid Rigs /me whistles......
KurmoL	Posted - 2007.06.05 09:32:00 - [29] Originally by: NoNah Oh but I have been on test, and have you noticed the fact that modules does not break due to heat either? Heat issnt final, thats why its on sisi and not tranq. Question is, have YOU been on tranq? uve been only there once cuz heat damaging modules is already up so... useless flame...
Baudolino Gallente Zer0 ToLeRaNcE Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.06.05 10:48:00 - [30] Alot of people oppose nos for the fact that they can be combined with drones. Supposedly drones have great DPS. This shows a dangerous lack of understanding of how drones and guns actually work. Even with 50% bonus to drone damage and hit points- the DPS is gonna be unimpressive compared to that of guns- approd 1/3 of the damage range of a true gunship. Check the following link for more info on gunnery.. Guns beat drones While drones do add some damage- a nossing drone boat is gonna need a fairly long time to take down a gunship. Most likely the gunship will hardly need to use his repper..



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